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hellfish6

JAM and CAVS

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Combat! has recently inheireted the JAM project from Cornhelium and the CAVS project from Termipete. We intend to flesh out and adapt these systems to Armed Assault when it is released.

Thus, if you have an requests, bugs with the current systems, suggestions, questions or comments, fire away here or on the Combat! forums (www.combataddons.com). We'd especially like to hear about the experiences of addon makers currently using CAVS or JAM and any suggestions from you guys to improve either system.

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Great to hear that JAM and CAVS is still alive. I'm going to do my best to implement CAVS values to Vietnam: The Experience which already uses JAM.

Maybe in the future we could have some NAM era magazines we'd like to see in JAM.

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If this can be of any help,

Some months ago, i made a modification of a BIS config using CAVS values for all the tanks and all the AT weapons.

If you want to get a feel of it for testing purpose, you can get the test mini mod there

http://rapidshare.de/files/18843302/CAVSconfig.rar.html

or there

http://www.easy-sharing.com/398208/CAVSconfig.rar.html

or there

http://download.yousendit.com/FE5E3EC33917EA23

Just put the @TESTCAVS folder inside your OFP folder and launch it as a mod.

Here is the results of test i made (showing how many hits to get the target to explode) using this config , every shots were made from the same distance, firing at +/- the junction between the lower part of the tank and the turret.

CAVS AT vs CAVS tanks

atvalues2pd.jpg

CAVS tanks vs CAVS tanks

sabotvalues5fc.jpg

notice : those tests are not displaying when the tank is out of combat, or the crew is dead, they show only after how many direct hits the tank explode.

And important : cavs values from this config were selected from the cavs 80/90 eras, more modern cavs values would certainly lead into different results due to the extended destructive power of modern ammo and ATGM.

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@Hellfish,

Do you have or did you get access to the JAM3 forum discussion CH had setup over at Operation Flight Sim? There was a lot of good discussion going on, and might help not having to reinvent the wheel.

Also, as for suggestions for JAM...It'd be neat if there was burst fire mag for AI on machine guns like Laser did w/ his weapon pack.

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Hi Hellfish,

Great news! Here was my list of things left undone in JAM3:

* Remington M24A2 mags - 10 round bolt action

* Recheck W762_5mag (ie M24 series) muzzle velocity

* Proper modern East bolt action mags. Eg for SV-98

* Incendiary and HE rounds for relevant sniper rifles

* Ingram mags

* Skorpion mags

* UMP-45 mags with burst

* Some SMGs ready-configured as pistols, using the JAM secondary SMG mags - Uzi, Ingram, Skorpion (anything that has a BIS model)

* Consider splitting Uzi mags into Uzi, MiniUzi and MicroUzi with proper rate of fire for each. Current setup is this:

             -Primary-slot mags have mean ROF of Uzi and MiniUzi

             -Secondary-slot mags have mean ROF of MiniUzi and MicroUzi

* Check out the burst mode on the AN94. It's taking 2 rounds off the ammo counter per burst, but is it doing 2 rounds worth of damage? Seems not to be.

* Buckshot. Look into possibility of adding proper, scripted, shotgun ammo.

* More Shotgun mag options. Make sure that East shotguns and things like the Jackhammer are covered.

* More launched grenade options - White Phosphorous etc.

* Cartridges:

- proper size cartridges for each ammo type

- make sure bolt actin rifles eject no cartridge

- shotguns should only eject 1 cartridge per shot

* Look into General Barron's stringtables idea for weapon models (see private forum - contact Hardrock about getting it re-opened)

* Update all scripts eg rocketsmoke.

* Consider embedding some third-party scripts in the JAM_Magazines.pbo eg HD mags swapout scripts.

* Open up JAM as an online database of values (annotated with the rationale behind MV, damage, accuract etc)with names and filepaths for all sounds, scripts and inventory pics. Goal: will allow makers of exotic weapons/variants to configure new mags that are JAM "compliant" ie their values are in-line with JAM's.

Cheers, and the best of British thumbs-up.gif

CH

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* Check out the burst mode on the AN94. It's taking 2 rounds off the ammo counter per burst, but is it doing 2 rounds worth of damage? Seems not to be.
Quote[/b] ]multiplier=1;

burst=2;

This way, your burst fires two bullets and use two of them from the clip. Add a very low reloadTime and recoil and you should have the perfect 2 bullets burst from the AN-94.

Quote[/b] ]multiplier=2;

burst=1;

That way, you only fire one bullet but two disappear from the ammo clip.

An alternive solution could be :

Quote[/b] ]multiplier=2;

burst=1;

the burst mode firing another special bullet with increased hit damage.

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I would like to see a JAM_MM1 and JAM_6G30 added. BIS models are fine.

As it is now you might as well use the JAM_M79, you can carry way more ammo do to the various vest and pouch mags.

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I don't have access to the OF forums for the previous JAM discussions. Does anyone have a link?

Interesting configs, Sanctuary. I'll check 'em out in further detail.

Cornhelium - I'll add your list to the "to-do" for JAM4 (or whatever it will be called). Likewise for the MM-1/6G30.

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Hi Hellfish,

Quote[/b] ]I don't have access to the OF forums for the previous JAM discussions. Does anyone have a link?

Hardrock is your man, he kindly hosted the forum on his gamezone.cz webspace - if you contact him by PM he might be able to help.

Cheers mate,

CH

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How about including ACES to your project too? Hardrock might be willing to hand you over the project, since there weren't any actually updates for a year.

Then we'd have an all around unified system.

EDIT: Just noticed I linked to ACES and typed CAVS, silly me. crazy_o.gif

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I was just thinking about the ACES too, would be great to have that done. I could have good use for it in VTE as we have many planes, we already did VTE_aw.pbo which contains all the Air launched Weapons, call it VTE's ACES wink_o.gif

Also my modern day missions could benefit greatly from ACES along with JAM3/CAVS. I fully support it.

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Hi guys,

Quick suggestion for JAM4, or whatever it'll be called...

* Proper recoils for the east Special Purpose mags (ie SP-6 heavy subsonic round as fired by Groza, AS VAl, VSS Vintorez). At the moment they use BIS "rifflesilenced" recoils, but they should probably have one of the JAM assault rifle recoils or a new one for the type. The relevant mags are:

JAM_E9x39_20mag

JAM_E9x39_20HDmag

JAM_E9x39_20SDmag

JAM_E9x39_20SDHDmag

JAM_E9x39Sniper_10SDmag

Cheers thumbs-up.gif ,

CH

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How about including ACES to your project too? Hardrock might be willing to hand you over the project, since there weren't any actually updates for a year.

Then we'd have an all around unified system.

EDIT: Just noticed I linked to ACES and typed CAVS, silly me.  crazy_o.gif

Regarding ACES, here's some type of mini-update:

secret001.jpg

(It's the KEPD-350 'Taurus' in experimental colors)

Of course this doesn't mean that ACES is completely vital;Hardrock and I are going to meet at the Mapfact-Workshop, so I'll talk to him on the future of ACES, which I'd be willing to take over.

And I am indeed a fan of JAM and I hope that CAVS will take off (are there any addons that use the CAVS system, except JAM?).

What I hope for JAM (or CAVS instead) is, that it supports a wider range of mounted weapons, even if they're only base classes to derive from. It already introduced the mounted PK and M60, so why not go further?

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(are there any addons that use the CAVS system, except JAM?).

OFPL anti-tank rounds are configured (almost) according to CAVS values.

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Hi Vektorboson,

Quote[/b] ]Regarding ACES, here's some type of mini-update:

...It's the KEPD-350 'Taurus' in experimental colors

Mmmmmmmmmm nice!

Quote[/b] ]What I hope for JAM (or CAVS instead) is, that it supports a wider range of mounted weapons...It already introduced the mounted PK and M60, so why not go further?

Mounted PK, RPD, RPK, RPK-74, M60, M249 types, M240 types are all supported by JAM3. Just waiting for addonmakers to plug 'em in wink_o.gif I know PUKF plan to use the M249 and M240 types for their mounted Minimis and GMPGs.

As I see it, JAM covers munitions that can be used effectively by a single man. That's why mags weren't included for heavy machineguns (Kord, M2, DSHK etc) - a single man couldn't effectively use one unless it was mounted.

These weapon types would fall into CAVS' remit IMO.

Cheers thumbs-up.gif

CH

Ps. Where do AT and MANPAD weapons come into all this? Well, as they're so reliant on Modelspecial, it's not practical to have them all coded into a .pbo such as JAM_Magazines. They'd all need model and modelspecial.p3ds and textures, making the filesize huge and meaning addonmakers couldn't use their own models.

This is the main reason that Javelin, SMAW etc weren't added to JAM3. Better to have a database of standardised values for damage, speed, range, accuracy, vulnerability to countermeasures etc that addonmakers can refer to.

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(are there any addons that use the CAVS system, except JAM?).

VTE is not at current v0.2 using CAVS values, but it will be as soon as I can (know how?) to implement them. Perhaps even on the upcoming v0.3 already has these values in.

As already stated, I'm very interested of ACES since we (VTE) have many air launched weapons and aircrafts to use them.

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I'm glad to see that someone is taking the reigns for JAM and CAVS. These are one of the two most promising projects, especially with Armed Assault near release.

One of the things I've wondered about CAVS in particular is would there be some attention paid to some of the more obscure aspects of balance? Things like radar and/or detection range, fuel capacity, speed, weapon accuracy, and turret-traverse speed. Items present in real-world armor such as nightvision, thermal imaging equipment, and fire control systems should effect these values. Obviously for some things it won't be possible to get exact values, but some sort of standard would be great, since many times these values dictate the victor of an engagement.

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This is the best community related news I've seen for Armed Assault and couldn't have hoped for anything more, especially with a team like COMBAT! behind the wheel/flight stic/etc. I was hoping JAM would be converted from the beginning in ArmA so it's now upto all addon makers to config there weapons for use with it. I haven't had any experience with CAVS (unless I have some armour in my mod folders that use it's values) but its addition can only be a plus for addon balancing/standardization.

Go Team! smile_o.gif

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Hi,

Could you include a stringtable entry for each project. Does not have to be anything complex, just a unique identifier and perhaps a version number?

For Example:

<table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0"><tr><td>Code Sample </td></tr><tr><td id="CODE">STR_DN_JAM_VER      V1.0      V1.0      V1.0      V1.0      V1.0      V1.0

It means addon makers can group both thier JAM & none JAM units into the same config, instead of having separate versions because of addon dependencies.

If you also include this function:

JAM_Installed.sqf:

<table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0"><tr><td>Code Sample </td></tr><tr><td id="CODE">private ["_result"];

_Result=0;

If ((Localize "STR_DN_JAM_VER")!="") Then {_Result=2};

_Result

An addon maker can use it to detect if someone has JAM installed in there Addons folder, also what version. If they do have JAM installed you can display JAM compatible addons, if not they remain hidden.

<table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0"><tr><td>Code Sample </td></tr><tr><td id="CODE">

//None JAM Units

class AnyOnldSoldier: SoldierWB

     {

     scope=2;

     ..........

//JAM Units

class JAM_Soldier: SoldierWB

     {

     scope=Call LoadFile "\<JAM Path>\JAM_Installed.sqf";

     ..........

If setup this way by the addon maker. JAM compatible units will show up in the editor, only when JAM is installed in the Flashpoint addons directory. Armed Assault might do all this, but in the absence of any info in that department, it's not a bad idea to include it now?

Cheers

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Hi,

Could you include a stringtable entry for each project. Does not have to be anything complex, just a unique identifier and perhaps a version number?

For Example:

<table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0"><tr><td>Code Sample </td></tr><tr><td id="CODE">STR_DN_JAM_VER      V1.0      V1.0      V1.0      V1.0      V1.0      V1.0

Why not with a simple Variable?

<table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0"><tr><td>Code Sample </td></tr><tr><td id="CODE">If !(format ["%1", JAM_currVersion] == "scalar bool etc") Then {2}

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If I understood correctly what UNN is after it needs to be done like that because that check needs to be done upon OFP booting up, not upon a mission booting up (when the JAM_currVersion is declared), so that OFP can be directed to read only the part of the unit config that has the 'JAMmed' units defined and leave the 'un-JAMmed' units unread (using #ifdef/#ifndef or that scope thingy..)..

I might be wrong though icon_rolleyes.gif

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Quote[/b] ]I might be wrong though

Nope, thats pretty much it. Only Scope does the job of the #IfDef stuff so you don't have to worry about that.

If you change the function slightly, you can pass in a version number as an optional parameter. So you can check for more recent verions of JAM, if required.

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