Politics of OPF

[Teo 0]

I was playing OPF on my Xbox and my Latvian house mate saw me playing and asked me what the game was about. I told her about the different games and I tell ya she wasn't impressed.

She gave out saying that the Russians were always made out to be the 'bad guys'. Now she is 45 years old and me thinks she still wants to be part of the old USSR and I'm not gonna criticise her for that 'caus she was brought up in that era. Just want to know does anyone else have an opinion on this?

[sputnik monroe 102]

Personally I don't mind the “what if the cold war turned into world war III†scenarios. It almost happened several times and it is an interesting scenario.

 That said I am sick to death of the post cold war  "Russian Ultra Nationalist have overthrown Moscow and resurrected the USSR!" story line that every game uses. How about a game where the Russians and the US fight along side one another as brothers against a common enemy?

[j w 0]

But... Since the Cold War, Russia (USSR) has been the bad guys.

Once a thief, allways a thief, right?

[hellfish6 7]

I think Russia/Soviet Union is always made out to be the bad guys because short of Germany in WWII, they're the only country on earth to ever give serious pause to the militaries of other countries. In today's world we're always looking for who might be the new enemy - the Chinese, Iranians, Syrians, etc. - and they all come up short to the Soviets. The Soviets are the only country that could very possibly have ever conquered all of Europe, from the Urals to the English Channel. They're the only country that could have blown up the world 25 times over.

When games or books are looking for their antagonist, the Soviet Union is an obvious one. They were seen as the enemy by the West (where the vast majority of the mass market video game/moviegoing/book reading audience is) for such a long time that they make an easy and challenging foe. Since the people in the West can't see themselves as the bad guys, nor would they be willing to purchase anything that portrays them as such, they turn to the obvious enemy - the one we spent 60 years staring at across an Iron Curtain. There's almost a nostalgia now for those days, when we knew exactly who our enemy was.

[EiZei 0]

I think forcibly taking over eastern europe and killing millions while doing it makes russians bad enough dudes.

[j w 0]

Without Russia, Europe might had been USG today.

United States of Germany

[sanctuary 19]

It does not surprise me that some people do not remember what living inside the USSR was in the old time and have dreams about how supposed "great it was", memory loss is a human speciality.

The human history is full of revisionism that makes tyrants and oppressor of their own people from yesterday ... "heroes" of today.

I always thought studying history was an important thing to do, too bad few people seems concerned by that.

Quote[/b] ]She gave out saying that the Russians were always made out to be the 'bad guys'.

Oh and Russia from today is not USSR from the OFP time (that took place in 1985), they are not the overall "bad guys" frmo the cold war anymore that force their own people to obey their leaders orders and silence any opinion or "you got shot or win a gulag new home in Siberia just because you have your own thoughts".

OFP does not show today Russia = bad guys, but yesterday USSR = bad guys.

[jakerod 254]

Personally I don't mind the ?what if the cold war turned into world war III? scenarios. It almost happened several times and it is an interesting scenario.

 That said I am sick to death of the post cold war  "Russian Ultra Nationalist have overthrown Moscow and resurrected the USSR!" story line that every game uses. How about a game where the Russians and the US fight along side one another as brothers against a common enemy?

There was a game back a while ago called Force 21 based off of some Tom Clancy type thing and made by Red Storm that features the Russians and the Americans fighting along side to stop the Chinese.

Quote[/b] ]China has invaded Russia to capture its vital economic resources. Only you and Force 21 can take it back! Force 21 is a Real-time 3D Tactical Wargame that combines strategic and tactical play to take you into the future of war. You command an American or Chinese armored force, and control up to 16 platoons of tanks, helicopters, artillery, combat engineers, and electronic warfare units.

[Messiah 2]

for years, James Bond was fighting the russians... now he's become a little more PC himself.. fighting the last remaining bastions of comunism... namely north korea at the moment.

i could see the north koreans being the next 'enemy' for computer games, that and generic Insurgents

[deanosbeano 0]

unfortunately the transition from a dictator/authoritarion/communist regime to democracy ,dosent happen over night, i feel for the older generation of the old ussr, apart from there vote, there contribution to the new era, will almost go un noticed and be a hard road,they probably have less now and feel lost,i also think that the older generation will never see any benefits in there lifetime, but for the youth /middle aged ,the future is bright as long as the right people are in power to manage the vast resources held in russias gas/oil fields. for example something like 40% of all europes gas comes from russian and in the near future it will be almost 70 -80%. if this wealth is spread and used in the infrastructure , then it will be a price worth paying for cutting its ties with communism.

oops and to answer the question i think it will be the north koreans who are enemies in games in the future

[EiZei 0]

i could see the north koreans being the next 'enemy' for computer games, that and generic Insurgents

Considering that north koreans so far have been featured as bad guys in Splinter Cell 3 (ok, they are not the main bad guys in this one but still..), mercenaries and Ghost Recon 2 i'd say they are not 'next', they already are.

EDIT: Ooh! I forgot about true crime: LA!

[Ares1978 0]

I know I'm pretty much alone in this opinion, but I'd like to see a story that's a lot more grey instead of black and white. No "good guys", no "bad guys". No freedom-sqealing Americans and no bloodthirsty Soviets. I'd like to see a real dirty war story, where the "good guys" are no better than the "bad guys", where government propaganda is replaced by the attitudes of soldiers, without the usual mindless drones that run around yelling "For El Presidente!" or something equally disturbing. There are a shitload of movies that use that kind of stories, but why are there no games?

[HotShot 0]

its not really USSR thats the enemy though, rather a renegade general who used to be in the USSR military, although i think one of the cutscenes explains that USSR isn't doing much to defeat Guba as they back the fact that he is kicking US arse, but they totaly ditch Guba later in the story, about the time that you invade Kolgujev.

[crashdome 3]

I know I'm pretty much alone in this opinion, but I'd like to see a story that's a lot more grey instead of black and white. No "good guys", no "bad guys". No freedom-sqealing Americans and no bloodthirsty Soviets. I'd like to see a real dirty war story, where the "good guys" are no better than the "bad guys", where government propaganda is replaced by the attitudes of soldiers, without the usual mindless drones that run around yelling "For El Presidente!" or something equally disturbing. There are a shitload of movies that use that kind of stories, but why are there no games?

You are far from alone on this.

My team and I thought up a good campaign wayyy back but it never materialized. I think it was right along side of what you were looking for. The players were contractors hired to provide strategic operations for an external force (not the US) and attempt to create an opposition to an island's govt. However, we were going to make the plot completely dependant on the activities of the players and they might find themselves helping the island govt instead of helping the original force. It actually allowed the play to swing either way without making anyone the 'good guy' for doing so. It was more like "what is your decision between two evils".

Since I study Int'l Relations and Int'l Economics, I find alot of neat and plausible storylines for missons/campaigns. As you say the world really isn't black and white.. and I would go so far as saying it isn't gray either.. but a clash between multiple opposing colors.

Regarding the general politics of OFP and games of similar style is that being primarily military requires that the player have incentive to continue to kill and destroy. The only way to really do so is to make the opponents so evil it can be justifiable. Strategy Games that are civ based and/or contain diplomacy you'll find allow the players peaceful ways to win (although I bet most people still use the crush/kill/destroy/method because those games still haven't properly modelled the negatives of such behavior) There it doesn't matter what nationality you are because there is usually some balance. As has been commented, a large chunk of the world this game was sold in really saw the former USSR as the big enemy in 1985. It just makes too much sense to use that as a base just as it would make a great deal of sense to make it an anti-German or anti-Japanese game if the time period were 1935-1945. Ironically, in that time period the player might be fighting along-side the Chinese while in a later time period they would be fighting against the Chinese.

As time continues, we are seeing more and more of a blur of national identity and despite one nation opposing the views of another nation, due to democracy there is less use of military between two or more nations (if you believe in that particular International Conflict theory). Supposedly, there is the possibility of what I call "pocket wars" where there are pockets of aggression within a national boundary but could involve many many nations. For example, perhaps a strategic strike by many multi-national organizations on a building or area which houses opponents of this organization. While it may be in a democratic country, it will probably not involve that nations military (until they find out about it and send in their forces to break it up). You can see a light form of that today in form of riots and such, but really this isn't about guerilla opposition of minority groups but rather the possible  use of aggression by Multi-National Corporations against other organizations or MNCs. It seems very unlikely right now, but the truth is that as globalization begins to get a bit 'crowded' we see more and more conflict instead of cooperation.

[sputnik monroe 102]

Quote[/b] ]its not really USSR thats the enemy though, rather a renegade general who used to be in the USSR military, although i think one of the cutscenes explains that USSR isn't doing much to defeat Guba as they back the fact that he is kicking US arse, but they totaly ditch Guba later in the story, about the time that you invade Kolgujev.

 That's true, but even then like I said earlier I don't mind Cold War games. The Soviet Union were not the good guys. I just don't dig the post cold war story lines where the Russian Federation gets taken over by "Ultra Nationalist" or "Neo Fascist" and ressurect the USSR.

  Basically in short, cold war Soviet Union = the enemy. Post cold war Russia = Friends. That's all I'm trying to say.

[EiZei 0]

Post cold war Russia = Friends. That's all I'm trying to say.

The same friends who gave Saddam intelligence in spring 2003 about american movements? The same friends who keep supporting relics like Lukashenko? And with the constantly more authoritian measures taken by Putin who knows what they will do next..

The may not be much of a direct threat anymore but they are hardly friends to the west.

[sputnik monroe 102]

Quote[/b] ]The same friends who gave Saddam intelligence in spring 2003 about american movements? The same friends who keep supporting relics like Lukashenko? And with the constantly more authoritian measures taken by Putin who knows what they will do next..

The may not be much of a direct threat anymore but they are hardly friends to the west.

Ok, ok sheesh. Damn, last time I try to be optimistic.

(every thing you just said is correct)

[GoOB 0]

That's true, but even then like I said earlier I don't mind Cold War games. The Soviet Union were not the good guys.

Neither side are, nor were good guys. Lots of no-no's from both of e'm...

[Daniel 0]

Don't forget, it wasn't really the Soviet Union as a whole anyway. It was only the troops forced to obey one General in the Soviet Union. They were Renegades.

[Jinef 2]

There is no good or bad in war, just dead or alive.

[Espectro (DayZ) 0]

The winner writes history

If there had been a war, and USSR had won against USA, we would all be thankfull that the evil US didnt win.

Circle of life

[sputnik monroe 102]

Quote[/b] ]The winner writes history

If there had been a war, and USSR had won against USA, we would all be thankfull that the evil US didnt win.

Circle of life

Something I notice people tend to forget a lot... The cold war wasn't just between the US and the USSR. Believe it or not Europe was involved also.

Quote[/b] ]we would all be thankfull that the evil US didnt win.

Most people I talk with or hear from seem to lament the fall of the Soviet Union. Heck it's pretty much pop culture belief that the wrong side won the cold war

[Espectro (DayZ) 0]

Quote[/b] ]The winner writes history

If there had been a war, and USSR had won against USA, we would all be thankfull that the evil US didnt win.

Circle of life

Something I notice people tend to forget a lot... The cold war wasn't just between the US and the USSR. Believe it or not Europe was involved also.

Quote[/b] ]we would all be thankfull that the evil US didnt win.

Most people I talk with or hear from seem to lament the fall of the Soviet Union. Heck it's pretty much pop culture belief that the wrong side won the cold war

That wasn't my point

[mechastalin 0]

Personally I don't mind the “what if the cold war turned into world war III†scenarios. It almost happened several times and it is an interesting scenario.

That said I am sick to death of the post cold war "Russian Ultra Nationalist have overthrown Moscow and resurrected the USSR!" story line that every game uses. How about a game where the Russians and the US fight along side one another as brothers against a common enemy?

In Daisenryaku Portable the Russians ally with Japanese and US Forces to destroy a North Korean nuclear threat.

The Russians dont come into the game until NK threatens to fire missiles all around the world though.

[Edge 2]

I think BIS did some good steps to give people the "bad guys" according to their taste without insulting Russia - renegade general acting against his own state, remote archipelago, Soviet government denying his actions. Russians can still feel insulted, but it's complicated matter very tightly bound to historical development of Russian state and culture. As Sanctuary said, answers can be found in history textbooks.

OFP has unusual approach to the FPS genre, which is suitable for depicting modern conflict as complicated matter. With possibilities of this game, every side can be shown as the bad guys. For mature audience, such point of view can be much more attractive than a black-and-white scheme. I hope such "multicolored" approach will be encouraged by the community in the future.