Persistent Universe

[furia 10]

I am already considering a project for my squad about creating a permanent Persistent Universe for us.

Since Armed Assault is supposed to allow players to join anytime, my idea is to create a specific island for our squad (We do have extremely skilled island creator among us ) and have there our 24 hours a day running world.

We will have our squad soildiers on different bases representing the actual structure of our Battalion.

So far we do have 3 dedicated servers for our Squad and the idea is having one running permanently the same map that would be a Island World created by ourselves. This will give us a place to have a real virtual life as squad.

We do place great enphasis on training and other activities so our gould would be that anybody can join anytime do its training (usually a platoon training) and leave when need. Maybe on the other side of the island there will be another platoon also training.

If this works as advertised, that would be also an excellent way to have meetings and many other activities on a real virtual way.

I would like to know if the actula join in game feature will aloow this and if provided we do have a dedicated server running permanently the same map it will allow always people joining at any time on a permanent way.

We have already many ideas about this permament Universe but we do need to know a bit more about the "MP possibilities of Armed Assault"

Any of you know more about this issue?

[rundll.exe 12]

Im pretty sure this is possible with ArmA. There are no restrictions in game-time and duration. One factor could be the server stability, but I hope that the arma servers are better coded as the ofp versions.

I like your Idea. Becomes some RPG that way A completely dynamic mission would be a requirement ofc. (if you destroy your jeep f.e. you should be able to ship in another, or it would end the mission )

btw, it would be cool if the time in game is synced to the real time. That makes it even more realistic

[Scrub 0]

Great idea, and after your gung-ho troops totally take over the island (ya know they will), you can spawn an enemy amphibious invasion force to smash back the players and attempt recapture.

 

Edit: It would be nice to periodically save the game status (streaming? staggered?) so if a crash occurs, the world will be close to the way it was on startup.

Keeping that in mind, it would then be a worth while endevor to be able to place objects (read: build), so bases and fortifications may be constructed by players. Always wanted that, but the payoff was not worth the investment as the game ended so soon.

[robert(uk) 0]

Sounds like a good idea. Will be interesting to see if it works...

[-IEF- Mp 0]

Also i have thought many times

i hope this.. living ofp

[berghoff 11]

In the game2 interview they spoke about this a living world with civies, bit RPG like.

*damn typos (I'm a n00b)*

[furia 10]

Well the idea basically is based on the possibility of joining a map at any moment. This itself creates the possibility of a permanent universe since the map does not have to end to allow new players to get in and the map can run for months.

A properly made map can be a really dinamic enviroment.

Today I was discussing with some of our squad memebrs about the possibility of crating even a train and bus connection btw the main cities so people wanting to travel to the other city can take a train that stop on the station every 10 minutes for instance.

Or an AI Airline connection btw two islands.

Possibilities seem to be almost unlimited if the join in game feature is really as announced, which I hope.

[Dwarden 1124]

combined with some suggestions for server i made here http://www.flashpoint1985.com/cgi-bin....t=50868

it could really turn into excelent thing

[Lin_Chino 0]

I´ll visit your island during holidays...if you have beaches

[jammydodger 0]

Sounds good chaps, keep us posted

[Dynamax 0]

syncronizing game time with real world time wouldnt work.. you would have players from around the world playing, all from different time-zones. this means that day-time in Asia would be night in noth-south America.

other than that, its a good idea, too bad BIS already thought of that and are doing exactly this if not better for GAME2(OFP2).

[chipper 0]

Great Idea man. I'd love to play in one of these "persistent universes"!

[-kelet0r 0]

That sounds amazing - it would prove if for instance what BIS claim Game2 will be capable of can actually happen

[NeMeSiS 11]

That sounds amazing - it would prove if for instance what BIS claim Game2 will be capable of can actually happen

Its already possible in a limited way in ofp thanks to the DAC, altough a full scale war is a bit too laggy, but 20-30 squad dynamicly reacting and fighting with eachother (calling reinforcements etc) works fine...

So im 100% sure its possible in Game2, and maybe even in ArmA

[robert(uk) 0]

Today I was discussing with some of our squad memebrs about the possibility of crating even a train and bus connection btw the main cities so people wanting to travel  to the other city can take a train that stop on the station every 10 minutes for instance.

Or an AI Airline connection btw two islands.

Now that would seriously ROCK!!!

[x582gr51 0]

Yeah, i agree this is a real good idea and i am hoping this since early 2002

let list some requirements for a completly dynamic mission:

1- Multiple islands ai's interaction: I have seen it on karillion's server but i don't the have name. But ai's don't operate on the 3 islands simultaniously by this i mean a ai squad won't move to the other island by there own.

2- adjustable AI's respawn: There is a few ways out there that permit to create massive ammount of enemies far beyond the ofp coding limitations. But having a spwan point that is adjustable to the real-time context of a mission isn't created yet. By this i mean enemy composition and force adjustable to the amount of alive players. These lead to progressive forwarding as someone or a squad isn't limited to turkey shoot the enemy but to advance to the spawn point in order to reduce and/or stop the respawning of ai's in this zone while taking down the opposition. To make it short it's the red, orange, yellow, green, white zones thingy. With the help of Korax, i (we) already made an adjustable ai's respawn point that modify the ingame deployment of enemy according to the amount of players. It's not released because i am not satisfied by the behaviors of that merged amount of scripts and also by the fact that it is working by using a multi-level logic gate that isn't suitable for every possible contexts.

* this can also change the way players use mechanized infantry as well as tanks and other vehicles in combat. What is sad is to see a tank players moving full speed in combat zone raming whole lot of infantry squads. Making it more realistic, adjustable ai's respawn can force tankers to act as mobile artillery to destroy heavy threats after enemy tanks have been wiped out. While Armored Personals Carriers such as bradley's load out infantry squads in order to defend tanks and the apc's that are mopping the enemy infantry leaving the remainings to player's side infantry.

** Ai's should be able to fire or destroy empty player's side vehicles making things more realistic.

3- What about a sort of cpu entity that is neither on one side or another but by wich is created new hiden objectives according to ingame events and progresses. This can make a mission forever playable, theoricaly, else until players are bored by the theater of combat.

4- Trading goods and money with civilians: In real life soldiers are not only brutes and monsters that scare all civilians arround. They "give" or trade rations, clothes, toys, tools, help healing and repair and even make friends amongst civilians. I have seen i a forum (do not remember wich one: Fraghaus) that someone have made money to trade with ingame therefor i think that maney other objects can be made for the same purpose.

5- Server side basic models (not bis default ones) with client side addons: The server should manage basic models while constraining the client side addons to realistic parameters. By this i mean to let players to costumize weapons and ammos loadouts and other equipments as well as textures while preventing unwanted transparencies and for example a navy 16 inch shell cannon on a motorbike or guided missles on an rpg7.

It could also reduce the amount of addons and bring ease to mission makers.

6- Updating basic models by working by increments. In order to fill in new models to the mission. There should be a folder where you can put new models and then set an interval or a frequency that will search for dates between the last update and one hour after the time of the present task. Now is the part of sending them into the mission without restarting it??? Can't see how yet...!!!

7- Islands made from real life locations by taking satellite imaging datas to create islands and being able to use GIS databases of models for example objects from Multigen-Paradigm and Boston Dynamic and all other friends. Maybe having the whole world as an island without having the client to pre-render regions that the player is not located to at the moment. I see it as features from caimpaigns being brought into cooperatives missions and also as a more advanced and built-in version of the warping script.

8- Built-in realistic damages types of Revive for more cohesion and also not to make players re-appearing magicaly in a brand new body, fresh and ready to combat. Another thing is that it make a whole different gameplay as a player not only have to shoot the enemy but also taking care of wounded soldiers.

I see it as normal and basic grunt heal for 25%, squad leaders heal for 45%, combat medic heal for 65%, Corpsman heal for 80% and medic packs add 10% healing to every units when used. Corpsmen and combat medics doesn't require a medic pack to heal others at high percentages and have less time waiting to comeback ingame if they are killed and they auto-heal themself throught time without any actions for low percentage wounds.

Damages are to be more realistic as a bullet to the foot won't stop either a player neither the enemy as a bullet to the face (jaws) would ( Thanks to protein rich food and other candies...).

There should be different status of each soldier and/or wounded like psychological strongly depending on other physical ones as endocrinian system, blood, hearth, breathing, nerves artround the wounds and central nervous system as cerebral too. All on a timer and changing depending on the realtime contexts and environment.

10- Built-in put and remove accesories and parts to a weapon least to a small firearm. Putting a silencer and removing it as weel as changing day scope for nigth ones or putting a flashlight and the such. Would allow the players to costumize there equipments via a tool-box and also extend the length of patrols or engaments. Since rarely a town or an aiport is taken in 30 mins but rather in few hours but most probably in a few days.

Making players load for a 72 hours expectency is more realistic.

11- The everlasting need of logistic and re-supply as well as repairs is to be considered. Soldiers scopes gps and laptop as well as many others requires electrical power wich usualy are under the form of batteries and cells. These power sources need to be either replaced or recharged wich can add to game strategies. Not only the accessories that need electrical power but also the soldier himself. This electrical power for soldier come under the form of protein and energy rich food and/or drugs wich also can be add to game strategies as an hungry and tired soldiers can't aim straight and can't move properly no wars can be won with them.

Planes can already drop crates and vehicles but ai's support vehicles rarely can get to the player in a decent and acceptable ammount of time. They are hitting objects damaging the trucks and eventualy move very slowly and later get completly stuck.

There should be a special AI classe for support and ingame created hiden caches depending on the contexts and progresses through an objectives and/or a series of objectives and or the entire missions basic or default objectives.

Well, it's all i am thinking of as for now. Oh yeah, civilians that reacts to the presence of the military and are on the side or against the soldiers as well as AI's enemies that can apply insurgency to the population of a region sadly to women and childs as well as fathers and olders forcing them into the war. Adding difficulties as you are severly punished if you fire into an human shield or any civilians.

That was the real last thing for now and anyone that can add anything from a war event that he or she would like to see in the game please don,t be shy and make your list.

[-IEF- Mp 0]

Serious problem (i think) is the server..

if the server crashed after much time.. what happens? restart from begin

[twisted 127]

an sialnd similar to own island would be great. by similar i mean in the realistic layout - it looks like it shoul dhave normal life going on.

which serves to increase the feeling of an invasion.

also be nice for people to choose either side and so fight each other. imagine clan wars then.

[x582gr51 0]

In 2002 i was thinking of an island a based on how real regions continent and even the world then each country can be represented not only in an OFP based game as addons but in one dynamic mission with joint ingame thingy as well as a ranking and tasks system. This making a perpetual world class tournement or a cooperative mission as Nato vs The Terror or a The sims like thingy with natural an man mades disasters.

As i am far from being a talented programmer or modeler/texturer but always manage to do what once was just a spark of wasted energy somewhere inside. The Community made most of what was required at the time by using scripts, addons and some are also part of mods. If not perfectly as needed they where merged and refined to suit the needs. Many ideas that was doable by working the open source side of ofp are well done and good to play with.

I am sure ppl at BIS also had these kind of ideas in mind and are developing them, maybe not a worldwide or global island or missions as they would need the clustering of a few

CRAY XD1 super calculators. But, they sure are into never ending missions as a lot of scripts and missions makers that i was cooperating with told me that they got kinda approached regarding rpg's and dynamic or long patrol missions as well as other specials things too.

Who know...but ARMA is sure to have a load of surprises right out of the box!!!

[chipper 0]

Mp @ Mar. 09 2006,20:11)]Serious problem (i think) is the server..

if the server crashed after much time.. what happens? restart from begin

It can have restore points. If you get what I'm saying.

[Randy 0]

Server crashing is no problem, a world save can be performed periodically, say every 30 minutes depending on the stability of the server. This system is of course used in Ultima Online.

I really like this idea. I also thought that join in progress and thus persistent multiplayer worlds was already confirmed by the developers?

Speaking of a constant dynamic mission, I can imagine some things that could be included to make it ever changing and interesting.

World/local events for example.

An admin could trigger an invasion from one side of the island, or a militia group rampaging across and slaying villagers. All the players who are messing about at the various military bases, sitting in pubs in towns etc would get a message describing to go to base for mission details and co-ordinates on where it is taking place.

Random rebel camps could spawn deep in the unexplored forests and deserts, players could get 'rebel forcasts' at base, a map that highlights rebel activity over the past day. You could then band together with some buddies and do some glory seeking, sometimes getting cash and equipment loot from the naughty hording rebel camps and hideouts.

The players who participate and finish the objectives get a pay bonus that they can use to purchase equipment/vehicles.

'Caravan' runs could also happen constantly, players signing up to escort a convoy through rebel held territory, earning cash on the side. Casinos and clubbing could be included just for fun.

Cash could also be used to buy train tickets, bus tickets and boat tickets to get around or you could just catch a lift in a friends fancy sports car he saved up for through a few days of playing.

Wanted posters of criminals could spring up about towns, with the last known location of the offender and the offered reward. They would be hunted down by players and npcs making a life of crime pretty dangerous.

Animal hunting could also take place, shooting dear and small furry animals and selling their pelts, lugging their bodies on your jeep to sell to the nearest butcher. Even trophy hunting competitions, hunting down a notoriously huge buck for the tourneyment prize.

I can see it all now, and I can see it all being very possible with relatively little modification required.

[Espectro (DayZ) 0]

Hi there Furia - great to see ya on these boards as well

I really think this is possible, granted that the arma-servers will be a tad me stable than the ofp ones. What would be cool, was to designate a soldier to a players game-ID. So whenever a player joins, he gets the same soldier/officer in the game.

With the scripters in SWAF, this is definately possible.

[Zorbtek 0]

Mp @ Mar. 10 2006,02:11)]Serious problem (i think) is the server..

if the server crashed after much time.. what happens? restart from begin

I myself wonder. It would be awsome if the mission PBO could be constantly updated and downloaded even while in-progress.

That way if the server crashes, you just load up the latest Mission PBO and start where you left off.

[furia 10]

Hi Espectro, you are right, we do have the right people here to make it happen.

We are already exploring the possibility of dynamic weather accordinmg to Real world data and the most interesting is the creation of an Enemy Ai paralele Universe.

We still have to see the possibilities of the game regarding MP stability and number of units it can handle. Probably we cannot have a universe with 1000 ai running, we have to see.

However other idea to make this even more interesting if we could script it would be to have as I said an enemy island of mid size were enemy did their own life, they build slowly more weapons and train its troops and grow up.

And of course we will have no clue what is going on on enemy island unless we sens some spec ops to investigate.

The enemy Ai would be really AI, totally aoutonomus, scripted to react to any attck and defend their island.

Since they will be growing up on strenght with time SWAF will be forced to attack them from time to time to prevent they became so trong we can never defeat them.

LOL it like having HAL 2000 on our island, you never kow what the enemy ai will do.

So imagine we want to know how many tanks and helos they have so we have to insert Spec Op team to discover it and nobody knows what they will find there.

We can decide to attack their island from time to time and maybe hold some part of it, but of course it would be really hard to take the island away from the Enemy Ai since they will be on their home.

So if we want to attack with tanks we have to tranbsport them with ships, no magic respwan.

Of course sciprting the enemy AI would be a master piece work but I am confident we have the really skilled people for this.

If properly done the enemy AI would have their own universe and they will also respawn (more likely replace the lost unit in due time) and build vehicles.

But for instance if SWAF can bomb and destroy their factory, their vehicle production would be stopped or slowed.

Well this is just some of more ideas I am running on my head now.

So we have the right people and the ideas so lets just hope that MP is stable enough for this and allows this persistent universe.

This project is designed to give our squad SWAF a virtual place to have a virtual life.

As Espectro sya we will like to try to give each soldier on a unique ID that it corrspeond to an actual ID of each of our members, so each soldier have its own slot.

This project was started long ago with the OFP limitation on an island called Homeland, made by Berghoff one of our very talented members, however there we had no join while in game thus the possibilities were greatly reduced.

Now we can aim for a really virtual world, 24 hours a day.

And if we can manage properly, create a smart and self developing AI that grow up and take care of the defense of its island.

So after some time, we really have no clue what is going on on the enemey island abd it will be adaption to the battles outcomes. Since we also want this scenario for our normal peacetime life, that is training, meetings and so, the enemy AI will be doing their own life on their island on the meantime.

SWAF will be attacking from time to time, sending Spec ops units to gather intelligence to know what the AI is doing and deciding if it is worth to attack and where.

If the AI is really smart like the one on FFUR, this can be a real challenge and a very virtual experience.

More to follow....

[berghoff 11]

This Massive Multiplayer Online ( Militairy ) Mission, should be fun. CCE Malick does this on a very small scale, you get to take missions, sleep, eat and each mission is different patrol duty, recon etc.