Persistent Universe

[x582gr51 0]

@furia

How can someone send spec ops to investigate if he have no clue... maybe scouts or recons...

The number of enemy ai's units isn't a problem even in ofp the real challenge is the number of humans players. There is no needs to have over 1000 ai's running arround simultaniously while a good set of ai's respawn points can send up to 100 ai's at once making the scene look like an overwhelming horde or primed armed primates. It just have to look convincing, it,s not the truth but least it's less cpu time and ressource consumming.

This idea of RTS or CTI with autonomous resistances forces as already been done. I don't remember the name of this mission but you may ask KaRiLLion about it, he is the wizzard behind this magic type of mission that last 3 hours.

Scripting the Ai's for being autonomous is already done just have to apply a script called the unknown enemy script to make most of them if not all of them hunt you. You can also have civilians ai's roaming in vehicles that act as agents and warn them of your presence wich can also reduce the amount of units needed at the start of the mission or permanantly in the mission while activating an amount of resistances mech inf squads spawn and respawn at the nearest ai's respawn points can make thinks very convincing that the island is well guarded.

Normaly if one want to detect or know about an enemy force then he will use sattelites instead of sacrifying lifes and to reduce the possible compromising issues like captured recon team soldiers filmed by the enemies and videos sent to the press.

@Berghoff and his legion of undeads

That sounds good and i would like to get more infos about this MMO if you can PM me?

[-kelet0r 0]

What would be worth thinking of doing rather than limit your vision to just having AI constantly scripted to run around in a server would be to make a persistant real time Red team Blue team war which with the new join in progress for Arma would mean a constant military campaign that players can join at their leisure to progress the battles

the possibilities are amazing, think planetside at a realistic real time pace spread over island/continents with frontlines and flash points

A reallife military MMO - sounds tasty

[furia 10]

LOL I said Spec Ops first because one of the mission for those units is infiltration and intelligence gathering not just strikes, but seccond because It was juts an example.

POssibilities are unlimited.

I want to say many of the idea I ams eeing here are really useful and cosntructive.

Yes we aim to have an Enemy Ai universe where AI run their own life on their island but that they ca react to our attack. I do not think we can do a script that AI organice an assault on our island by their own in a coordinated way. I guess this is too complex if we want it to be realistic, but IU believe they can do good defending their own island and moving troops there to counter our attacks.

If for instance we disembark on the south of the island the AI commander send his troops to the South to reinforce his defenses and generate helicopters sorties to provide AI CAS.

We can have those satelites although I have not seen a satelite add on on OFP yet although we had a nice Unmanned vehicle to make reconeisance that I remember.

As I said the main goal is creat such an AI universe that runs effectively aoutonomous so we do not have to interview every time on their actions thus runinig the susprise of the attack.

Also we have to generate a good economy control so lets say each side we have 3 factories, one for tanks, one for aircraft and other for other stuff. Lets say the plane factory produces one plane every week. So if on one battle our side loses 3 planes, it will take us 3 weeks to recovere them all thus forcing us to be on the defensive during that time. Same goes for the Enemy AI.

We can place of course limits to the maximum number of planes a side can have.

Same goes to the troops replacement, so new created soldier have a very los skill level and they need one month to train to be combat ready.

So to replace an Spec Ops an infantry soldier needs at least 3 months of experience.

Well, I am already working to give shape to this project and make it true so I welcome very much all your ideas and imputs.

[joshfox0 0]

I'd be very interested to see the kind of feature they had in VBS 1 where someone could effectivly be god and add in things while people were playing the game that would make for some awesome persistant worl missions and allow for the server load to be lowered due to the "god" deleting things no longer in use

[NeMeSiS 11]

and allow for the server load to be lowered due to the "god" deleting things no longer in use

We can automaticly deletevehicle those things, otherwise someone has to keep deleteing things and that doesnt sound like the most interesting job in the world

[hardrock 1]

This will give us a place to have a real virtual life as squad.

Now this expression amuzes me! Ever tried looking out of the front door of your flat?

[Dwarden 1124]

Mp @ Mar. 10 2006,03:11)]Serious problem (i think) is the server..

if the server crashed after much time.. what happens? restart from begin

answer to this problem is very easy either some inbuilt by BIS "session saving" feature or give tools /access to write it...

it will work in style "each xy sec / mins / hours" it saves status of server to datafile

of course this can be combined "major backup points at interval" combined with seamless continuous backup ...

sure You will need well done server which not stutter while writing to HDD

[robert(uk) 0]

Normaly if one want to detect or know about an enemy force then he will use sattelites instead of sacrifying lifes and to reduce the possible compromising issues like captured recon team soldiers filmed by the enemies and videos sent to the press.

Yeah, but that's boring. This is a game remember, and nothing is more fun than sneaking around on an enemy island, reporting back their strength and positions and stuff...

[x582gr51 0]

Yeah, but that's boring. This is a game remember, and nothing is more fun than sneaking around on an enemy island, reporting back their strength and positions and stuff...

Well, Robert in this situation, the recon patrol stay stealth communicating with the hq and/or naval or aviation so there can be an immediate strike on the enemy positions. The recon give the exact positions of the opposing forces wich make more damages.

Still in order to do this then there was either images from planes or satellites. Because if you didn't detected an enemy then why would you even get the idea of sending soldiers to search for it except if it is an mountianious, forest or jungle type of region. But there is infrared, stereo and much more type of imaging that are available today to reduce the risk of these kind of patrols and missions.

If there is a lesson to take from past wars about this subject then just think about Vietnam. The terrain there was mostly about hills and valleys covered by a jungle wich rendered arial imaging/photographies useless in most situations. Lot of patrols have been sent and lot of them got wiped or disapeared. One wouldn't want this to happen in the future conflicts so why not use the ressources availables in order not to deliver meat to the enemy but to keep the forces to destroy the opposition.

I know this is just an immersive game but this one is about realism not heroism and ramboism then why not making it real.

Anyway focusing and extending on this aspect of the game is kinda off topic better getting back to the real business wich is the very good idea of a Persistent Universe.

[funnyguy1 0]

How you want to force ppl not to destroy the fun?

I mean, you want to have as many live players as possible, and what would those players do if you send, let`s say 3/10, spec ops on the enemy island. I mean, what would be the rest doing?

The idea is great, but first of all, you should introduce some serious limitations to prevent the game of becoming one big unreal tournament-like DM, and what`s also important you should think of giving ppl something to, even if they`re not fighting at the moment.

[Espectro (DayZ) 0]

There should be random semi-scripted attacks from the enemy to the player-island... Keeping them occupied.

Maybe also the ressistance can take part in attacking the players?

[Dwarden 1124]

playing in persistant world will be nice e.g. as part of resistance ...

enemy is strong so You can't take often direct actions but play cat and mouse tactic ... with hit, run and hide style

of course if You progress well ... maybe one day allies come and invade the area (from sea or air w/e) ...

i remember there was dynamic campaign in OFPR ... it was very interesting ... now imagine that with JIP and persistant world at e.g. crosslinked 4 servers

[funnyguy1 0]

AI should know that first they should bomb our island (usage of bombers should be limited to just few attacs on the main targets, and you should be able to pick those targets too, e.g. if you chose to destroy anemy`s radars or AA positions you`ll still have to fight the aircrafts/helos and armour, but it`ll be easier to use your own air stuff), then do the land assault, destroy strategic targets (airports, bases etc.) with lower altitude bombers, then use helos to destroy armoured vehicles, then the tank raids (drop the spec ops somewhere in the island to make a mess behind enemy lines), artillery,then deploy the infantry simultaneusly with light armour and clean the towns.

This would force players to act more or less the same way.

[grayace 2]

may I request one more thing for this "virtual life", can we get the option to choose or change our camouflage, uniform, swimwear :P druing in-game?? I want to wear my uniform, report to military base and switch to training suit and hit the track...

no Im already going to phyciatrist regularly

[robert(uk) 0]

may I request one more thing for this "virtual life", can we get the option to choose or change our camouflage, uniform, swimwear :P druing in-game?? I want to wear my uniform, report to military base and switch to training suit and hit the track...

no Im already going to phyciatrist regularly

You can do this in Soldner...

[furia 10]

may I request one more thing for this "virtual life", can we get the option to choose or change our camouflage, uniform, swimwear :P druing in-game?? I want to wear my uniform, report to military base and switch to training suit and hit the track...

no Im already going to phyciatrist regularly

Hey this is a very good idea.

I am adding it to our list

We are mostly aiming to have a Virtual enviroment to develope our squad activities, so we need an island that stays in "peace" where to have meetings, and traininig.

In SWAF we give a lot of enpahis to train and we are happy to say we are one of the squads that provide members with very intensive and edicated training to be come good soldiers.

For this reason we initially aim to have our island free of attacks but having another nearby island populated by enemy.

Now that you mention resistance, we may explore the possibility of having a resistance inside the OPFOR island.

We have to see how the autonomus life scripts allow us to run the OPFOR.

Somebody mentioned linking two different servers. I do not know id this is possible but if it will be, that would be the most incredible revolution on Virtual gamming since the computer was invented.

Imagine that each different squad have its virtual world and run it on a dedicated server as we plan to do.

Linking this twoo servers will allow to initiate a war btw the two worlds each side with its won island and units on a persistane enviroment.

Well would be incredible.

However turning back to our project one of the things that I amst concerned is to ensure continuity to the OPFOR Ai so no matter what they can run autonomously and o their own on a smart way, patrolling and defending their island and if they loose units or vehicles they replace them in due time and again they deploye those properly and autonomusly.

One of the most important things that I also read here is the "save" feature. Surely a need in case we have to make modification to the map we would have to stop the server thus loosing all the progress done on the virtual "life".

A save feature will not only allow this stop but also that in case of the server crash that the dat is not totally lost.

This is something we have to explore in detail.

We are also thinking about adding one Character as civilian that have a Console to control some events via scripst, kind of Virtual World God that while inside game can trigger events, and activate scripts to make extra things happen.

Keep flooding your ideas an oppinion they are very valuable and welcomed to develope this project.

[grayace 2]

I posted that because OFP is providing a very flexible environment however it has some rigid parts which limits some nice features.. some possible main titles that are not available

*changable uniforms,

*for training and tactical awareness, drawable/markable map to define enemy contacts or attack paths..with the option of classification like side only/civilian/to all/group only.. (also good for marking beatiful sight seeing places!

*vote for day time skip,

*Electronic Warfare (detects radio/radar signals and provides true bearing of emitters and MODEL of the emitter, but not the distance..)

*Mail system, send declarations between units/sides/organizations (what is good use of e-mail and clan home site while we can connect to ArmA and join meetings, check events... damn another NOTAM, what?! cant we fly over FortBrag anymore??)

*Reservable entry(spawn) points, (I would like to start game in my home and jump to car and go to Mil base, hell its a sunny day! ditch the training, Im off to beach!! man look at those waves) No, really, what if I got captured? then forget the home, Im in a damned cell, oh no!

*And of course CONSTRUCTABLE UNIVERSE as well as its persistent!!!! Lets dig a moat around this base, since we are going to have "wild life" can we have some alligators?? :P

*If BIS can make servers to "InterOp" with each other, player capacity could reach to very high numbers I guess, then we can all have a real Operation Flashpoint UNIVERSE, In that case Im going to earn some soil and grow crops or should I mine mineral deposits...

EDIT

What about buffer zones to prevent two sides ambushing others soil during "peace time"?? an AI controlled "Peacekeepers" which can be sided to "Resistance" under the name of "United Nations" can do this I think... for engagements, both sides can agree on a specific time period to disable buffer zones, and roll for WAR!

[Marco.A.Aguilar1 0]

I've been away for 5 years and so much has happened since. If at least half of this can be made possible in Arma/OFP2, it would be greatly appreciated.

[CANavar 0]

For many years, I've been dreaming a realistic military game world like the one you guys described. There are so many MMORPG games out there and none of them is for me. Realistic ones like WWII online are very poor in the visuals department (kills the immersion) and others are all sci-fi or fantasy.

[messiahua 0]

I read almost all of this thread! IT IS SO GREAT if it will be real military simulator. This persistent universe is brilliant idea. I even didn't expect to see such things. It will be a new ganre of online games - MMMORPG

I'm playing OFP since first release. This is my favourite simulator...

Can't wait for ArmA... and then OFP2

[furia 10]

Basically having the possibility of Join in while in game all this is possible.

Actually with actual OFP we could do so however there is something we have to work out now, either ourselbes or with BIS help to make this true and a fact and that is the only technical trouble we are facing so far.

We need a way to ensure that the Game will not end when no humman players are on server as is happening now with OFP.

Sorted this issue, the rest of possibilities are endless.

We are already defining the bases of our squad universe, I will post more here onece we have a more solid concept but your ideas or suggestion or even a BIS note about the issue of the Join while game in progress and server continues even with no human players is all that we need to carry one now.!!!

[DBR_ONIX 0]

Me and a few friends were planning on making an RPG when ArmA comes out, which was decided upon not long after finding out JIP was going to be included (It was very annoying playing an RPG, then someone crashes, and reconnects.. Grr)

JIP makes it possible, the only limitation is performance, really, but that depends on how efficent the ArmA engine is. Then you have the problem of if the server reloads the mission, carrying equitment/money/locations/dammage to buildings etc over (Though the only important ones are health, equitment and money, and anything else you can buy)

The fact OFP addons will work in ArmA means you can start making it now, but for scripting (A large part of it.. well, huge) you have to wait till it's released (or more info is told about the scripting improvements)

Theres no point in spending hours working out how to hack together a saving system, if ArmA will have file writing/creation commands (Like _person1 writeFile ["health",1], for example)

Hopefully something similar to the functionalty of FWATCH will be implemented into the game *Crosses fingers*

Anyway, good luck with your universe

- Ben

[zaphar 0]

one feature that I think would be an awesome addition to this "virtual world" would be if either side starts attacking the civilians, some of the civilians form an insurgency group, and carry out guerilla tactics against the aggressor, such as IDE attacks.

I definitely like the idea of having a living world, with civilians moving all over the place so the islands don't seem so "dead". The only problem I've seen in trying to make living towns in OFP is finding something for the civilians to do other than standing around. If there was someway to make a non-CPU intensive schedule system for the civilians so they can do certain things, I think it might work.

It might look something like this:

-Farmer bob goes to location "bed" at 21:00 does action "get in bed"

-Farmer bob at 06:00 does action "get out of bed"

-Farmer bob go to "kitchen table" do action "sit in chair"

-Farmer bob at 06:30 does action "get off chair"

-Farmer bob go to "Tractor1" do action "get in tractor"

-Farmer bob....

it would be nice to do some form of scripting like this, and make generic way point paths in the mission editor so more than one person can use them.

This is one thing that I hope ArmA has in general, paths. In the editor you can give specific units/groups way points, but I think it would be very nice to have sets of way points that do not belong to a specific unit/group, so they can be assigned to groups in the scripting. Might make something like the civilian schedule easier and less complicated.

Just a thought.

[Marco.A.Aguilar1 0]

Hope for the best and this would highly be it. This persistent universe is a magnificient idea and should be deepy considered. I will support it with what time I would have with Armed Assault. Peace and War time within the game of this stature would be a semi-revolution in gaming.

[rundll.exe 12]

I think it might be really good to have multiple teams on the islands, all with their own terirory. They can live in peace with eachother, but they can also declare war to other teams on the island (or even another island?) And gain some more Area.

Might even make a packt with other teams ot work toghether (and then attack them later on ofc )

This would make tactics AND political influences important, what can be even trickyier than military tactics

But this may be a separate mission (because it has an ending some day)