Pete 1 Posted January 23, 2002 </span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (placebo @ Jan. 23 2002,20:27)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">If Rocky 4 wasn't pro-american (anti-commie), I don't know what is. Â Did you really see it as pro-commie???<span id='postcolor'> Well I saw it as pro-both, depended on your perspective I guess, my point was more in relation to character portrayed, not the movies themself.<span id='postcolor'> dont you think it is kinda funny that the russian , coming from a poorer and less technologically advanced country..trained with computerised punchingbags and other hightech stuff.........while rambo..er..rocky, who is from a rich nation, that is technologically advanced.. trained in a barn using what ever he could find to use.... it was a decent movie tho....but rocky one is better. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Placebo 28 Posted January 23, 2002 </span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Pete @ Jan. 23 2002,19:37)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">dont you think it is kinda funny that the russian , coming from a poorer and less technologically advanced country..trained with computerised punchingbags and other hightech stuff.........while rambo..er..rocky, who is from a rich nation, that is technologically advanced.. trained in a barn using what ever he could find to use....<span id='postcolor'> And despite the training equipment, and despite the steroids Rocky still won Not that I care though, the Rocky movies are excellent, you put the tape in the vcr, grab the popcorn, switch your brain off and have 90mins of great fun and entertainment Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Akira 0 Posted January 23, 2002 </span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Pete @ Jan. 23 2002,20:24)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">i know Akira, a movie is not a history lesson (not if it is from hollywood ) but i dont know if you know exactly what we (atleast i) were talking about, its not that the movie is not historically accurate, it is that it makes a good vs bad statement, not only on the "political level" (nazi gov. = bad) but also among the soldiers...german soldiers are always bad, russian are always incompetent and anyone else is just plain stupid. all while americans are the heroic nice guys. i understand what you say perfectly, a movie is a movie, nothing more..hollywood movies are made for americans first, and then shipped to other nations. but the thing is, watch a european war movie (you really shoul)..take Stalingrad for example, you will not see one trace of patriotism, flagwaving or demonising of the enemy, no stupid, incompetent or evil russians. in american movies the enemy is always that, always...it is the american way of making movies i quess...the old good vs bad, i have seen a movie made in bosnia i believe right after the war, it had a great story and didnt paint either of the sides as worse than the other (it was not a war movie, but based on the war time). as some example of what i mean. gettysburg, both sides repressented as good, neither of the sides repressented as bad, it still was a great movie. as soon you see americans fight others than them selfs, then it is good vs bad, it is not needed to make a good movie, but hollywood for some reason repeatedly does so. i heard rumours of the military giving support (borrowing equipment) to war movies.....IF they are showing the military as a good thing, perhaps this is what creates the hollywood desire to make good vs bad themes instead of "realistic" movies...not the audience desires. if you are a fan of war movies, you should see "Stalingrad, All quiet on western front (old german version), Talvisota/winterwar, Waterloo (a oldie, but good)" and some others, specially american civilawar movies....those i rank as the top war movies. they are not either 100% historically correct but you get rid of the flagwaving and super-patriotism. btw, rambo one IS good...the following ones are plain silly. (and i took it up as a extreme version of svp and other hollywood warmovies, even if rambo is a action movie)<span id='postcolor'> Oh goodie...I haven't had a good Pete debate in awhile! To be fair, Hollywood HAS made its fair share of even-handed, good war movies...but that is the exception rather than the rule. You bring up another point about movies. "Catering To The Lowest Denominator." Mass audiences aren't looking for "thinking" movies. They lay down their 10 bucks (insert money exchange here) to be entertained, to be made to laugh, and to see really big things get the hell blown out of them. If this was not true try to explain why "Corky Romano" or "Dungeons and Dragons" got made. For these mass movies, the audience doesn't want to see ambiguity and moral uncertainty. They want clear cut balck and white, right and wrong. That way the brain can be shut off and they can stuff their face full of popcorn. To say that only American (or more specifically...Hollywood) movies do this would be a false generalization. I've seen movies from around the world that do it. Not to mention in a lot of movies Americans are not only the good guys...but the BAD guys as well! As for patriotism or the dreaded "nationalism"...there is nothing wrong with it. But you must also realize that the movies I spoke of above...the "mass movies" if you will....are the ones that do this the most. "The Thin Red Line" for example (one of my favorite movies), is made in Hollywood (not IN Hollywood...but you know what I mean)....absolutely NO flag-waving in that movie...shows the Japanese in an equal light. HARDLY a mass movie. It only hit the "art houses" here. "Saving Private Ryan"....quite a mass movie, carried on multiple screens at theaters, a lot of flag waving. "Pearl Harbor"...a sickening amount of flag waving (Michael Bay hasn't figured out how to do that right yet). Gettysburg...a semi-Hollywood movie....originally made for TV then released to the theaters. Good movie indeed. On the flip-side of the coin I will mention "Mrs. Miniver" (I've mentioned this before). 1942 I think. Completely cast with British actors, completely about the British and their heroism during the Blitz, completely made in Hollywood. It's too much of a generalization to say all American movies are super-patriotic....the independant makers are not that way at all. It is true that the military loans equipment only to the movies that depict them in a good light, but that is their perogative. It's THEIR equipment, and its VERY expensive. You think their going to give it to any knuckle head with a script and a camera? But Hollywood does fine with its own creations as well. I haven't seen Stalingrad though I want to...keep meaning to pick it up. Seen the old "All Quiet...", actually watched in high school...and it was on Turner Classic Movies the other night...last image still sticks with me. The good thing about living in Austin, Texas (believe it or not) is the major film school here and the plethora of independant movie stores that specialize in foreign and independant movies. Also the reason I mentioned "First Blood" (ie Rambo One)...was because it was one of the first movies to mention and attack the prejudice and "hatred" that Americans had shown to Vietnam vets. Was one of the movies that started a "reconcilliation" if you will. Plus the story was a hell of a lot better than the others.... Anyone here ever see a movie called "The Beast"...about a T-72 tank lost in Afghanistan (during the war obviously)...been looking all over for it and can't find it.... I THINK that is all .....crap why can I never remember Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
KingBeast 0 Posted January 23, 2002 Wow Stalingrad arrived in the post yesterday, and it is truly amazing. I was blown away, so to speak. The actual action was amazing and bloody (man getting chopped in half by a tank shell etc) and it was great seeing all of the german and russian Hardware. I loved the chracters too, especially Fritz and the chubby man that can speak russian (got crushed in his foxhole by russian tank) Anyway this is now among my top 5 films of all time and i would reccomend it to anyone Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ex-RoNiN 0 Posted January 23, 2002 </span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (KingBeast @ Jan. 23 2002,21:28)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Wow Stalingrad arrived in the post yesterday, and it is truly amazing. I was blown away, so to speak. The actual action was amazing and bloody (man getting chopped in half by a tank shell etc) and it was great seeing all of the german and russian Hardware. I loved the chracters too, especially Fritz and the chubby man that can speak russian (got crushed in his foxhole by russian tank) Anyway this is now among my top 5 films of all time and i would reccomend it to anyone <span id='postcolor'> It is even better if you can watch it in its original language...german Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
KingBeast 0 Posted January 23, 2002 Oh yes ive seen the Beast of War. Great film. Ronin i have the badly dubbed versino I really wanted the original but couldnt find it. Stil lan amazing film though Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Akira 0 Posted January 23, 2002 </span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (KingBeast @ Jan. 23 2002,21:32)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Oh yes ive seen the Beast of War. Great film. Ronin i have the badly dubbed versino I really wanted the original but couldnt find it. Stil lan amazing film though<span id='postcolor'> I'm gonna feel like a retard but.... What language are you looking for it in? Amazon might have it, and the DVDs always have a couple languages its in..... Dubbing sucks....subtitles rule.....hate watching dubbed Anime....takes away from the whole picture... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
KingBeast 0 Posted January 23, 2002 I was talking about Stalingrad, i ordered that from www.blackstar.co.uk where i always get my vids. The ydidnt have a VCR version of Stalingrad that was subtitled. They didnt even have stalingrad in stock, i ordered it 6 weeks ago and normally they send the videos next day Had to hunt it down for me Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Pete 1 Posted January 23, 2002 this pos forum dont let me post my long reply Stalingrad is a must-see.....its a great movie Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Renagade 0 Posted January 23, 2002 anyone watched rambo 3 recently,at the end of the film some text comes up with the message " Dedicated to the valiant people of afghanistan" also they were represented as being good and decent folk all throughout the movie and the russians were the big bad evil guys. Heh make of it what u will Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
