Dynamic Destruction in AA?

[esti_the_big 0]

Well, I guess these new articles certainly certainly delivered some more speculation material about the usage of the DDS System (Dynmaic Destruction System) in ofp. That bridge, the fuel station in ofp:e, the (probably) definitive introduction of it in vbs2... Any thoughts?

[Spoock 3]

Well, I guess these new articles certainly certainly delivered some more speculation material about the usage of the DDS System (Dynmaic Destruction System) in ofp. That bridge, the fuel station in ofp:e, the (probably) definitive introduction of it in vbs2... Any thoughts?

very interesting idea, but I would like dynamic destruction as vbs1

[Adamicz 3]

Well, I guess these new articles certainly certainly delivered some more speculation material about the usage of the DDS System (Dynmaic Destruction System) in ofp. That bridge, the fuel station in ofp:e, the (probably) definitive introduction of it in vbs2... Any thoughts?

very interesting idea, but I would like dynamic destruction as vbs1  

most people should wish that

[esti_the_big 0]

uh... comon help me a bit

I saw a trailer for vbs1 showing it off, but was it now really included in vbs1 already?

[Heatseeker 0]

uh... comon help me a bit

I saw a trailer for vbs1 showing it off, but was it now really included in vbs1 already?

I dont think so and if you guys do some homework you will understand why that system wont be adopted like that, its just not good enough. The creation of buildings and structures would be very hard and demanding on resources plus it was all script made, i think it would just delete or replace model parts and the "transformation" was cleverly hidden by smoke (no visual falling/blowing up parts).

http://www.essentialasair.com/dc3d....adid=50

We need to actually see the transformation but if people expect every structure in the game to take damage like that their setting up for a huge disapointment..

Now with the new engine it might work but only a few buildings might feature it imho.

[Commando84 0]

i dunno IF a few buildings would feature some sort of dynamic destruction i think fans would mod out new or replacement buildings that uses DDS    

even though peoples systems wouldn't be able to run properly when a bunch of lgb bombs hits a city full of DDS enabled structures.

[Dwarden 1124]

related to Czech interviews there seems to be dynamic building destruction already in Armed Assault ... (game uses open source physical engine ODE so i assume it's used for DBD too)

[stakex 0]

uh... comon help me a bit

I saw a trailer for vbs1 showing it off, but was it now really included in vbs1 already?

I dont think so and if you guys do some homework you will understand why that system wont be adopted like that, its just not good enough. The creation of buildings and structures would be very hard and demanding on resources plus it was all script made, i think it would just delete or replace model parts and the "transformation" was cleverly hidden by smoke (no visual falling/blowing up parts).

http://www.essentialasair.com/dc3d....adid=50

We need to actually see the transformation but if people expect every structure in the game to take damage like that their setting up for a huge disapointment..

Now with the new engine it might work but only a few buildings might feature it imho.

The link you gave is not about the official VBS DB's that we have seen in the VBS dynamic buildings trailer that esti_the_big was talking about.

When I first saw the official VBS DB video, I did a lot of searching and never saw anyone officialy say that it was just replaceing the building with a pre-sculpted one. And it dosnt look like that at all either... there is a point where you see a tank blow a small hole in a wall for example. It just looks too good to be a replaced building. But the real evidence that they are dynamic buildings is... where you download the trailer on the OFFICIAL VBS site... it says "Dynamic destructable buildings " Now I dont think BIS would lie...

And we know game2 will feature lego like house that can be blown apart brick by brick, and VBS2 will feature dynamic buildings probly along the same lines. As well as what we haveseen in VBS... so we know for a fact that its possible. The only real question is are they adding it to Armed Assult as well.

[Heatseeker 0]

The link you gave is not about the official VBS DB's that we have seen in the VBS dynamic buildings trailer that esti_the_big was talking about.

When I first saw the official VBS DB video, I did a lot of searching and never saw anyone officialy say that it was just replaceing the building with a pre-sculpted one. And it dosnt look like that at all either... there is a point where you see a tank blow a small hole in a wall for example. It just looks too good to be a replaced building. But the real evidence that they are dynamic buildings is... where you download the trailer on the OFFICIAL VBS site... it says "Dynamic destructable buildings " Now I dont think BIS would lie...

Bah, saw the movie 2/3 times...

Bang>lotsa smoke>chunk missing.

You tell us when did you see bricks falling off in that movie, or even wall pieces... you didnt because the game doesnt support it, it was a scripted workaround .

Now ARMA might support something like real structure deformation because people mentioned the GAS stations in Elite blow up to pieces but i doubt BIS would use it on all of the game's structures and buildings.

And even in game2, considering the massive size of the game it would take alot of time and work.

[UNN 0]

The reference to Dynamic in VBS is a bit of a misnomer, the original OFP buildings were dynamic. They have lights, animations, adjustable proxies and user actions. A lot of that video, is just stuff that was done in VBS instead of OFP. With the exception of walking around in moving vehicles...but then...never mind

It's possible to create buildings that look just as good as the Game2 screen shots, if you want to take the time to do it. How the lag issue would work, is another thing. But it's gone beyond possible, at least for OFP

[gunterlund 0]

related to Czech interviews there seems to be dynamic building destruction already in Armed Assault ... (game uses open source physical engine ODE so i assume it's used for DBD too)

Arent they talking about OFP2 not armed assault in relation to ODE. I dont think there are any destructible buildings in Armed Assault. I thought it just said you can shoot through walls but you can hide behind buildings in Armed Assault.  

[esti_the_big 0]

It'd be great if someone could clear up the case with those vbs1 videos... they're official videos, they're called "dynamic destructable buildings". And afaik nothing has been released atm.

link for movie:

http://www.virtualbattlespace2.com/media/movies/movies_1x.rar

And then theres this rumour about the destructable gas stations in OFP elite... Could help some clearing that up as well?

[Spoock 3]

It'd be great if someone could clear up the case with those vbs1 videos... they're official videos, they're called "dynamic destructable buildings". And afaik nothing has been released atm.

link for movie:

http://www.virtualbattlespace2.com/media/movies/movies_1x.rar

And then theres this rumour about the destructable gas stations in OFP elite... Could help some clearing that up as well?

show me screenshot from OFP E. with fuel station - plz

[Uziyahu--IDF 0]

It seemed to work easily enough in Soldner, but then, I think that they didn't have a whole lot of buildings on the terrain at once in that game.

[Ronin Warrior 0]

It seemed to work easily enough in Soldner, but then, I think that they didn't have a whole lot of buildings on the terrain at once in that game.

Isn't Soldner a 2D game? If so there is a HUGE difference in 2D and 3D rendering, and it shouldn't even be mentioned in the same sentence.

Anyway to get back to the game of discussion, I really haven't seen any evidence of Destructible environments in Armed Assault. If it was gonna be a part of the game(core), you can bet your a** it would have been in at least one of the screenshots.

As far as the destructible environments in VBS1, it so far has not been implemented, although it is still a possibility that it will be in a future patch(update).

And one more thing to consider for all the naysayers that think that a completely dynamic destructable environment is so far impossible. Consider the following technology being made available for Ghost Recon Advanced Warfighter(PC):

They will be using a new type of physics engine called Ageia. From what I can tell it is kinda like a sepperate set of processing drivers that alleviate the strain of many physics calculations from the CPU and GPU, and thus allowing for many great improvements to games that require large calculations to be made quickly.

Here is the ageia website link, check it out, maybe BIS can make use of this technology(if they aren't already), or possibly develop something along the same path to make for a much better simulation experience.

link:ageia homepage

[meyamoti 0]

No he means this Soldner http://images.amazon.com/images/P/B0000VMINQ.01.LZZZZZZZ.jpg

In OFPE when a fuel station is destroyed it falls apart basicly,rather than just burns.

[Ronin Warrior 0]

No he means this Soldner http://images.amazon.com/images/P/B0000VMINQ.01.LZZZZZZZ.jpg

In OFPE when a fuel station is destroyed it falls apart basicly,rather than just burns.

K I stand corrected on that(must've been thinkin about sumtin else or an older version...)

Anyway, like I said I don't think Armed Assault will be implementing the destructable environment, as it is not a new game, it is a rework of an old game, and will probably not be introducing any new technologies or advancements to the scene.

With the exeption of advanced A.I., I suppose we will just have to wait until Game 2 to come to see any real improvements over the Original Flashpoint engine.

[robert(uk) 0]

It seemed to work easily enough in Soldner, but then, I think that they didn't have a whole lot of buildings on the terrain at once in that game.

I did extensive beta testing for Wings Simulations, the people that made Soldner (excellent game btw) and on some maps the layout (density) of the buildings is similar to that which we have seen in ArmA.  Soldner is based in a sort of Siberian area, so in a way, it's the same geographical location as ArmA, although Soldner did actually use satelite imagery to create the landscape.  I have quite a few screenshots of Soldner.  Unfortunately, none of them show the ADS (Advanced Destruction System) which was actually very good...

[robert(uk) 0]

And one more thing to consider for all the naysayers that think that a completely dynamic destructable environment is so far impossible. Consider the following technology being made available for Ghost Recon Advanced Warfighter(PC):

They will be using a new type of physics engine called Ageia. From what I can tell it is kinda like a sepperate set of processing drivers that alleviate the strain of many physics calculations from the CPU and GPU, and thus allowing for many great improvements to games that require large calculations to be made quickly.

Here is the ageia website link, check it out, maybe BIS can make use of this technology(if they aren't already), or possibly develop something along the same path to make for a much better simulation experience.

link:ageia homepage

Yes, nowadays development teams are starting to create entirely seperate physics engines, processed by Physics Cards (a seperate component for your PC) so that no stress is put on the GPU or CPU, so that they can concentrate on other things. In some games currently under development, every drop of rain, every leaf on every tree, will be calculated by these Physics Cards. The future is very exciting...

[Dwarden 1124]

it was already shown u can do Dynamic Destruction with old OFPR engine then VBS1 ...

about physic , one thing is interesting as in one of interviews BIS says they decided to use ODE instead of some "paid" closed source physics ... :

Ageia / PhysX = PPU > own standalone PCI / PCIexpress card for physics processing

Havok = GPU + CPU > utilizing actual single and dual core CPUs plus shaders (vertex) processing power of graphics cards (GPUs)

ODE = CPU + ?GPU? + ?PPU? > ODE is opensource and because ATI released info how utilize theirs X1xxx / X8xx cards for distributed computing etc. it can be used to help ODE in physics one day too ... same goes for Ageia PhysX chips ... ODE can (in theory) utilize all ....

[esti_the_big 0]

A war simulation like OFP just also needs a dynamic destruction system, it'd be a huge enhancement, especially for urban fights. And I think its perfectly implentible in AA, I guess its just a question of how many features (which were game2-exclusive before I guess) BIS wants to already show in AA. After all, it was already possible in vbs 1 it seems.

[stakex 0]

Bah, saw the movie 2/3 times...

Bang>lotsa smoke>chunk missing.

You tell us when did you see bricks falling off in that movie, or even wall pieces... you didnt because the game doesnt support it, it was a scripted workaround .

Now ARMA might support something like real structure deformation because people mentioned the GAS stations in Elite blow up to pieces but i doubt BIS would use it on all of the game's structures and buildings.

And even in game2, considering the massive size of the game it would take alot of time and work.

But again, BIS/BIA can do what ever the heck they want in changeing the engine to make the game support what ever they want. Its not like they are trying to mod it into the existing engine... if its not supported, well.... they will make it supported if they want. The user made attempts at destructable buildings, now thoes are scripted.

And sure, you never really saw anything in the DB video like walls falling or anything... but if you look really close at one point, you do see what appears to be the wall of the building starting to fall before the smoke appears. Of course it is impossible to tell from that video. But what ever they are doing... it would be very welcome in ArmA And like I said before, I doubt BIS would lie and call them dynamic if they were a scripted event.

As for game2... we already know every building, and vehicle is totally destructable. The buildings are lego houses, and we can blow appart every brick in the game. Theres really not much work involved at all outside of building the physics engine to handle the explosions. This is only a guess, but you seem to be assumeing that its all scripted, and in game2 at least, its not. Once there system is in place, they build a house and place it and its ready to be blown appart.

[meyamoti 0]

No he means this Soldner http://images.amazon.com/images/P/B0000VMINQ.01.LZZZZZZZ.jpg

In OFPE when a fuel station is destroyed it falls apart basicly,rather than just burns.

K I stand corrected on that(must've been thinkin about sumtin else or an older version...)

Anyway, like I said I don't think Armed Assault will be implementing the destructable environment, as it is not a new game, it is a rework of an old game, and will probably not be introducing any new technologies or advancements to the scene.

With the exeption of advanced A.I., I suppose we will just have to wait until Game 2 to come to see any real improvements over the Original Flashpoint engine.

Of trust me,there are already many new enhancements,even if destructible buildings don't get in.

Heh yeah I loved that in soldner,trailing down a forest in a tank and going up a hill,firing at an enemy building and making holes in it,awesome...I kept getting some odd graphics errors in it though and now the damn thing just won't connect,blah.

Yes splashing rain would be awesome,I for one love dark and stormy missions,I would love nothing more than to drive some vehicles,have to use the windshield wiper because the rain is so heavy,and then when I get out I could see the rain drops hitting the vehicle and everything else,though I bet the gear would be quite a bit heavier. Not sure why I prefer dark rainy missions *shrug* but I'd like to see more of those than bright sunny missions.

AA will no doubt open a variety of even more ways for the community to mess with things,with the optimizations we don't have to worry so much about things we been and still do. And if they release modding tools (Which I hope and believe they will) then even if we can't get an already working addon into OFP,we could always import the model and modify it to work from there,I'm quite sure a few things will need to be changed to accomodate the new physics and lighting. I'm interested in how the physics thing will go because I remember in OFP:E in a cutscene I saw a tank run over a group of barrels and they all fell and rolled,I decided to try this in three missions,in one mission I shot a barrel which continued budging,then I got jumped by pissed off soviet tanks. Then in another mission I shot the barrel...well it happened to be a fuel barrel and I'm not sure if it being near a fire had to do with it but the darn thing caught on fire,even more it was rolling around on the ground,on fire. So yes I would thing there going to be some things in terms of physics that we can do. The only thing I would miss are vehicle bm's with could make simple 2D textures look even more 3D because the way the lighting would 'reflect' from them. However I noticed that there are indeed bm's on the infantry so surely this is possible with vehicles.

If I can find a way to get pictures from my xbox to my PC I would gladly share them with the community and show you the station,hell sometimes it doesn't necessarily blow up if shot with small fire arms,I remember one day I was shooting it with a rifle and the tank caught on fire.

[robert(uk) 0]

Heh yeah I loved that in soldner,trailing down a forest in a tank and going up a hill,firing at an enemy building and making holes in it,awesome...I kept getting some odd graphics errors in it though and now the damn thing just won't connect,blah.

You need to visit the official Soldner website:

http://soldner.jowood.com/

The reason you can't connect is probably becasue they are now using a new portal system...

[meyamoti 0]

Thanks I'll give it a read and see if I can get it working again

Oh I like the vehicle signals...hmm..I just got this interesting vision that I'll probably never see in AA,people direction air traffic or ground traffic,intrusting a tank driver to pull forward,etc,etc...but that would be too real that people wouldn't wan it.

Btw still a bit off topic I know,but do you know anythign that might fix the graphic errors? I remember ingame sometimes parts would be missing,like the M1A1 fron lights and the M2A2 tread rollers,blackhawk wheels and parts of the rotor assembly.