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jantenner

about swaying grass - hope you can turn it off

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as i heard about that swaying vegetation kind of thing, i thought: oh no not again

all swaying plant stuff i have seen in games so far looked incredibly stupid (to me;) as if you on some weird drugs, which make all the plants do a bellydance. looked nothing like: oh theres wind there.

so the current swaying stuff thing in modern games is just deplaced, as it looks always very unnatural. so better skip it, untill you really have enough processing power to simulate the effects of wind on 1 million tiny plant things.

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Since you haven't seen what it looks like, its a bit too early to say skip it. Besides, if every game skips it, it will never improve to the point where it looks good. There are some games where it does look pretty good... not great, but not bad none the less.

As far as being able to turn it off, Id assume there will be some way to turn it off. Be it a mod, or an option.

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Only thing i dont like about grass in most games is that if you lay down you cannot see threw the grass, yet the guy some distance away can see you (since in most games grass only appears with in a certain distance of the player) meaning you get your head blowen off and not being able to return fire. confused_o.gif

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I'm just using OFP:E as an example because thats what it seems most like. in which case- The grass doesn't really sway but bends and slightly sways but not much,and I'v noticed it only does this when the weather is not so clear,I'm doing experiments right now,blowing up a gas station and I have noticed that between the diverse weather it moves more and goes less into the air as the weather gets worse and worse. I'v also noticed the grass seems to do the same thing,and no it doesn't appear too far away but I'd say around midarea,and because of OFP:E's distance they might or might not see you. so far I'v seen most grass straight or just barely sway on sunnyish weather,bends alot when a helicopters nearby but thats given tounge2.gif, I'd not worry about it too much as chances are I figure people would keep to the clearer sunnier weather,for one it has all the lighting effects and stormy weather has next to none,but over sometime like the grass,nah,I wouldn't worry too much,think about it,stiff grass while smoke is blowing in the wind would look out of place wouldn't it?

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talk for yourself D.murphy man, o while being there they could make the game work on a p3 333 and remove dynamic lightning and reduce the view distance to 12 meters...lol ... this game will have a lot of great ameliorations .people should stop whining. Lets go bis im behind you wink_o.gifyay.gif  yay.gif

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picture is a bit blurry because taken from Invasion 44 movie

but this is the standard the grass should reach in ArmA

I443.jpg

more dense and more in tune with the underlying soil when compared with Arma grass

I don't really like the grass in OFP:E <span style='font-size:1pt;line-height:100%'>looks like "pubic hair" to me</span>

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The grass in OFP:E looks more like grass,what I see in the I44 picture looks more like weeds,remember that grass is relativly very very short.

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But we sort of need both grass and weeds, and wheat fields, and meadows etc. So BIS can't really get away with just grass.

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The grass in OFP:E looks more like grass,what I see in the I44 picture looks more like weeds,remember that grass is relativly very very short.

They forgot to mow the jungle wink_o.gif

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as i heard about that swaying vegetation kind of thing, i thought: oh no not again

all swaying plant stuff i have seen in games so far looked incredibly stupid (to me;) as if you on some weird drugs, which make all the plants do a bellydance. looked nothing like: oh theres wind there.

so the current swaying stuff thing in modern games is just deplaced, as it looks always very unnatural. so better skip it, untill you really have enough processing power to simulate the effects of wind on 1 million tiny plant things.

I disagree 100%, the waving flora in Vietcong was brilliant and really made the environments feel alive and not so static, even the waving trees in GR werent too bad at the time, i think having dust and flora reacting to the rotors of a helicopter will be quite a spectacular sight, im imagining helicopter insertions/extractions in the new Aras game already smile_o.gif .

I dont xbox but from what i've seen from Placebo's ground atack cobra movie it looked very well done in OPF:E, definetly better than having static trees, its a feature i never thought would be possible to implement in a game has big and demanding has OPF so 2 thumbs up for BIS thumbs-up.gif .

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I think the best thing about moving foliage, shrubbery and grass, is the simple fact that you can no longer rely on the "shoot anything that moves" principle. smile_o.gif

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Practise make progress. The more people experiment and implement this stuff, the better it will get.

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Why is it that I only moments ago post the word 'erotic' in another forum, then refresh this page to see you've done the same? Stop following me, you mad bovine!

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lol... you little fox - And stay ontopic, m8! Talking about all the pr0n sites you visit isnt allowed here you darn fox... uhm, that didnt sound right :/

Now, ontopic.

What I look forward till the most, is having a moving scenario, instead of the static one we have now (where you just shoot anything that moves)

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Only thing i dont like about grass in most games is that if you lay down you cannot see threw the grass, yet the guy some distance away can see you (since in most games grass only appears with in a certain distance of the player) meaning you get your head blowen off and not being able to return fire. confused_o.gif

That was a major prob in Joint ops. I really hope that AA doesnt have that sort of grass that does that as its highly frustrating, because you think you are well hidden then you get shot because you arnt hidden from a distance due to the grass not being drawn at certain distances.

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"Only thing i dont like about grass in most games is that if you lay down you cannot see threw the grass, yet the guy some distance away can see you (since in most games grass only appears with in a certain distance of the player)"

  That is the whole problem with THIS new Novalogic. Delta Force 2s voxel grass may have been fugly, but it was EFFECTIVE visual concealment.   Instead of going all goo goo over how their new grass LOOKS nice in Joint Ops, they SHOULD have been thinking of "well really, how effective is this grass at distance visuals concealment?"    It was effective alright. Blinded anyone who lays down in it, but everyone else and their dog from distances could see your whole body just laying there waiting for someone to cap yo azz.

NL=dumbazzes.  

On topic

I hope someday a developer figures out how to make an engine that renders grass at distances as well as the old voxel engines did.  Grass in DF 2 was what I called the Great Equalizer. Even a nOOb who was not so good with his weaps could still survive in the field effectively, if he used terrain masking and the grass for vis concealment.    In that game Nova did not have to dumbazz down their weap balancing so the nOObs could survive.

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Thats where Operation Flashpoint stands out, you dont need to hide in the grass with all those shrubs, bushes, trees and stuff around, soldiers wont just hide in the grass either, in OPF one can hide behind a bush or a tree and it actually works, if the grass is big enough for you to hide in there you will problably find snakes there too crazy_o.gif . OPF environments render amazing amounts of objects and decorations, all wich can be used to conceal or cover the players, Novalogic's grass was a good workaround because their games couldnt handle a realistic amount of world detail and it also worked well because of the bad graphics and low resolution smile_o.gif . Grass is just eye candy, not important regarding gameplay imo..

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I wonder if the 'config' or model, or whatever for grass will be area or texture selectable.. for that matter, I wonder if you can make a grass 'mod' for those wheat fields someone mentioned?

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Thats where Operation Flashpoint stands out, you dont need to hide in the grass with all those shrubs, bushes, trees and stuff around, soldiers wont just hide in the grass either, in OPF one can hide behind a bush or a tree and it actually works, if the grass is big enough for you to hide in there you will problably find snakes there too crazy_o.gif . OPF environments render amazing amounts of objects and decorations, all wich can be used to conceal or cover the players, Novalogic's grass was a good workaround because their games couldnt handle a realistic amount of world detail and it also worked well because of the bad graphics and low resolution smile_o.gif . Grass is just eye candy, not important regarding gameplay imo..

True, you can hide behind bushes, trees, and other things but when you (if your laying down) try to peek out from behind the bush you'll get grass in your face, which you cannot see pass. Yet the guy a few miles away your trying to aim at can see your little head peferctly peeking around the bushes, and also your head bobing up and down as you kneel or get up to try and see over the grass thats unseeble to the guy your aiming at will give you away. Thus adding to frustration. If the ability to turn grass off is there in armed assualt, and they use the same draw distance streaming thingy that most games use for grass i will certainly be switching it off...especially with multiplayer games. whistle.gif

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True, you can hide behind bushes, trees, and other things but when you (if your laying down) try to peek out from behind the bush you'll get grass in your face, which you cannot see pass. Yet the guy a few miles away your trying to aim at can see your little head peferctly peeking around the bushes, and also your head bobing up and down as you kneel or get up to try and see over the grass thats unseeble to the guy your aiming at will give you away.

I dont really see why OPF/Aras would even need grass, maybe some tall grassy bush type thingy's here and there but other than that it'll be just a waste of resources. I think grassy terrain looks better than flat one but if the rendering limitation is this problematic maybe they should dump it or make limited use of it smile_o.gif .

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In one of the delta forces (not sure which) to simulate ground cover, the units in the distance became transparent to some degree, making it hard to see. Saved processor power on rendering distant grass.  Worked well.

Well, BIS, I do have one suggestion to take or leave.  Would it be possible to use the alpha channel (or controlled transparency) so that the grass tapers off in the distance instead of *cutting* out abruptly?  Just looks odd IMHO. confused_o.gif   O.K. no more gripes. biggrin_o.gif

Edit: Please change the above to a question, as I can't prove that it DOES abruptly stop in any of the pics..  crazy_o.gif  sorry, got the idea stuck in my head from here

BTW: doesn't the grass look a little see-thru? Wouldn't that keep everybody happy?

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hmm, some points are good. the multiplayer issue with grass used as concealment disappearing at distance is definately gamekilling and should be avoided at all cost.

and yes if nobody uses grass it will never improve.

btw i just checked out that new arma screenshots. looks like grass is used quite sparingly, not as possible concealment which seems good.

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In one of the delta forces (not sure which) to simulate ground cover, the units in the distance became transparent to some degree, making it hard to see. Saved processor power on rendering distant grass.  Worked well.

DF-BHD, hmm and no it didnt, it was very cheap like most of the game anyway sad_o.gif .

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