release over steam

[Uziyahu--IDF 0]

I recently browsed around my game drive to find out what was taking up so much space. Steam was taking up at least 4 Gigs, even though I had Half-Life 2 uninstalled! That's completely ridiculous when you've got something like the .kkrieger beta demo at 96kb.

[Mogley 0]

Has anyone read the pcgamer from last month or was it the month before?

Anways it was all about copy protection, it talked about safedisc, securom, starforce, and it amazed me 5 years later they said the best was fade by codemasters!!

It said it was pure genious how the game would let you play just enough to get hooked when using a bogus copy and then fade would kick in and ruin the game. If you liked it, it forced you to go out and buy it. It was almost like a demo of the entire game.

Then it went on to say how it was crazy that codemasters never used it again, they couldnt understand that.

PCGamer USA thought it was prolly the best copy protection ever.

I say if BIS cant get a publisher, than put it out for download and still make the same $$ as they would with a publisher!

[Journeyman 0]

I recently browsed around my game drive to find out what was taking up so much space.  Steam was taking up at least 4 Gigs, even though I had Half-Life 2 uninstalled!  That's completely ridiculous when you've got something like the .kkrieger beta demo at 96kb.

Mine was 5.46GB! I could not find a way to uninstall either so I had to just delete the entire folder! Then had to use msconfig to alter my startup to prevent windows from looking for it!

And I thought Game Spy Arcade was invasive! Steam is like a f*****g malignant cancer on your system!    

[Dwarden 1124]

One of reasons Fade vanish was that what happen if it triggers on valid client? Ruined game for valid customer ...

I can tell You that all of them (securom, safedisk, starforce, fade) are WASTE of developer/publisher cash ... they will be cracked in 0-14 days ...

there are games which perfectly demostrated there is NO need for copy protection and still result into commercial success ...

what developers and publishers should care about is protecting MP gaming against cheaters ...

[EiZei 0]

I can tell You that all of them (securom, safedisk, starforce, fade) are WASTE of developer/publisher cash ... they will be cracked in 0-14 days ...

As far as I can tell starforce usually can last quite long especially if the game is not very popular. Of course there is the issue of starforce being a very suscpicious piece of software to begin with.

[grayace 2]

I can tell You that all of them (securom, safedisk, starforce, fade) are WASTE of developer/publisher cash ... they will be cracked in 0-14 days ...

As far as I can tell starforce usually can last quite long especially if the game is not very popular. Of course there is the issue of starforce being a very suscpicious piece of software to begin with.

I can tell this about protection and cra*cking, there will be no protection as long as you give the software completely to client and let them use it offline... even the hardwares are designed to prevent illegeal copies to run _but_ there will be alternate hardwares which can run those... DVD movies are a good example for this.

[mattxr 9]

I dislike steam for 1 reason, i payed a lot for HL2 and i lost my steam account details and when i asked for them i had to answer a secret question and i never even put that question on. "Who was my childhood hero" .. wtf .. i would of put whats my dogs name or favorite book or something.. so my HL2 days were over

[Dwarden 1124]

I dislike steam for 1 reason, i payed a lot for HL2 and i lost my steam account details and when i asked for them i had to answer a secret question and i never even put that question on. "Who was my childhood hero" .. wtf .. i would of put whats my dogs name or favorite book or something.. so my HL2 days were over

not different from loosing box with cd and key i assume You tried Valve support giving them email, registration info, CC number (if you bought online) etc ...

that all alows You recover from such problem ... more options than with just retail box sales

[deanosbeano 0]

as me and a few of my fellow css hl1 hl2 etc players say,

" it is a pile of STEAMing crap"

fade will be enough, just give us the recorder from vbs and we will ip, id or even tag ban the cheats

ps only play between ofp breaks

[Kode 0]

all hail steam, I want to play a bit of DoD:s, and I constantly get messages: This game is currently unavailable, please try again later...wtf...

[advocatexxx 0]

No to steam.. i wanna smell on the manual in real life. not virtually

a true flashpoint player doesn't need no stinkin' manual to play!

Steam is in my opinion a lazy way of releasing a game, so people don't have to get to the stores. Also an easy way of controlling people. How often they play, what they play etc... I think many people are forgetting that aspect.

steam doesn't control anyone. if anything, it may track when you play a game and how long in duration. it should also be noted that one is not required to disclose their sex or age (or any other personal details for that matter) when creating a steam account, so the only information this hypothetical "steam tracker" would provide is the time you launch the game, and how long in time you play it. that kind of data is quite useless in the marketing world when you can't even narrow down your audience by simple factors such as age.

Quote[/b] ]Releasing it through steam still means they have to have a publisher, for advertising and normal packages, which I believe the OFP community quite likes as it is.

steam wasn't exactly released for the sole purpose of making software available through the internet. people have had the ability to purchase software online and download it for years now. steam was, in big part, an intitiative taken up to resolve the issues of software updates.

in essence, it's nothing more than your windows automatic updater, which occasionally checks for new versions and downloads them, to keep your software up-to-date. this is especially important since the original half-life engine, and games which ran off it (counter strike, day of defeat, etc.) were constantly barraged with hacks and cheats, and valve tried to keep-up by offering new patches and fixes. this often proved to be an exhausting task for gamers, who had to manually check and download updates for their software.

Quote[/b] ]Steam is in my opinion a lazy way of releasing a game, so people don't have to get to the stores.

that's certainly part of their business strategy. and so what? it's only beneficial if you ask me. why waste resources on a pointless manual? when you know that for a game like half-life, no one will really read it. the only information there is just FAQ, troubleshooting and the warranty notice. why waste resources on imprinting a disc, on packaging, on distribution, on retail space. all of this costs money, and ultimately, has to be included within the product's price.

by offering us the option of downloading it, they're paving way for more affordable software.

as for these 50Kb/sec download limits they seem to experience when downloading updates from steam, i have yet to experience such slow speeds. my downstream usually averages at around 600-800Kb/sec.

i'm not vouching for steam, but i'm certainly trying to clear up some of these flawed notions that many of you preach. in a few years fiber-optic lines will replace DSL and Cable (my friend's neighborhood is already wired with fiberoptic lines, and he gets T3-equivalent speeds for the same price that my Cable costs).

steam doesn't force you to download software updates if you're playing a singleplayer game, and these "clock cycles" someone mentioned, lol, where do you get this stuff? you dont' honestly think that if you somehow played the game without steam, your FPS rate will double, do you?

steam is nothing more than a way of keeping a game that's known to be popular in multiplayer up-to-date, taking full advantage of the broadband. and if you're stuck on a 56K line or ISDN, then you lack bandwidth to play the game online, let alone download the updates.

[Journeyman 0]

steam is nothing more than a way of keeping a game that's known to be popular in multiplayer up-to-date, taking full advantage of the broadband. and if you're stuck on a 56K line or ISDN, then you lack bandwidth to play the game online, let alone download the updates.

- If this is the case then why the 5.5GB of disk space?  

No doubt the principles are sound, but the way it is implemented is unacceptable IMO. My PC isn't just used for playing games; it is also my workhorse. If I want to play a game I double click on it. As it is at the moment if I don't want Steam my only real option is to uninstall it, and tbh that 5.5GB of disk space can be put to much better use!  

[Dwarden 1124]

all hail steam, I want to play a bit of DoD:s, and I constantly get messages: This game is currently unavailable, please try again later...wtf...

known error fixable ... search Steam forums ...

usually related to used firewall / security software ...

You need recreate rules

another thing could be your account is rights limited

or logoff from steam and back helps ...

anyway if You have problem ... Steam support is way to go

btw. look here http://www.steampowered.com/status/survey.html

in 2 days there is over 350k "VULUNTEER" (you choose You want take part) results ... let say only 1 of 5 people take part then you are at million and half users ...

NO other developer / publisher if i remember correct ever released such informations public ... and now tell me Valve not helps other developers ...

[deanosbeano 0]

and just to even the Debate out

the negative side of it

and an overall view

at least with ofp , if the game was playing up it was the game, not the game and some other internet thing ( well except when gay cough spy was around)

[Kode 0]

in 2 days there is over 350k "VULUNTEER" (you choose You want take part) results ... let say only 1 of 5 people take part then you are at million and half users ...

NO other developer / publisher if i remember correct ever released such informations public ... and now tell me Valve not helps other developers ...

Ehm not hard, every time you start steam they bother you with it untill you do it, so make it more like almost all users take part of it...

[berghoff 11]

Oh btw, I got my HL2 with an ATi card but when the game came out I needed log in more than once to steam in order to play in the so called "Offline mode". :/ So when you want to play on a different pc you need to log in to the crappy program again, I just want to press on the .exe file and play :P.

[TDogg 0]

Steam is a good concept but it just has too many bugs.

[Hekezu 0]

I really like Steam. I have had 0 problems with it but problems with some Valve software. Steam works fine, and if it doesn't Valve will update it.

I have already bought 2 games through Steam (credit card), DOD:S and Red Orchestra. The best thing about Steam is that it is very dynamic and developers can update software very easily. There is no need to give any money to a middleman so software can be priced more friendly.

Also Steam games come with VAC (Valve Anti-Cheat). The best thing about it is that it can be updated at any given time, so it should keep cheaters on their toes. Also cheating may freeze your account, so any game you have bought through steam stops working. This makes kids think twice before messing with "hacks".

Paper manuals are pretty useless for me. I usually learn by doing or just read the manuals from software cd/dvd. I'm all for Steam. It is still under development but it alrady works as a platform for many game developers. And when I buy a box software and real cd's, I usually try to find a crack for it as soon as possible. I hate swapping cd's and dvd's, especially because my dvd drive is really noisy.

And the bad thing about Steam is ofcourse its strongest point, connectivity. Steam requires internet connection when you validate the game after installation. But all in all I would love to see BIS products available on Steam. The draditional way is ofcourse safer but it feels so slow and pretty expensive.

[kegetys 2]

There is no need to give any money to a middleman so software can be priced more friendly.

Except Valve? Also, not having a "proper" publisher means extra costs for the developer as they will need to handle support (Dunno how much the steam support thing covers though), advertising and PR themselves.

Quote[/b] ]Also cheating may freeze your account, so any game you have bought through steam stops working.

This is imo. quite unfair and ridiculous. I dont think that would even be legal to do here, if Steam would be ran by a Finnish company...

[Guest Ti0n3r]

If my memory doesn't deceive me.. This is the way it works;

If you're caught cheating on a VAC server, in any game, your VAC status will change and you will be unable to play on any VAC servers. They can also ban your steam account or CD key.

I could be wrong, I havent played any steam apps since summer '05.

[shinRaiden 0]

Aside from private developer concerns I don't have any problems with steam-type systems as the delivery vehicle. Note that the delivery vehicle (sales and distribution done online and direct) does not automaticly require that managed servers and regular account maintenance be included in the deal. It could be in effect nothing more than a paypal transaction and a user-specific encrypted download, which is already done on a limited non-automated fashion for VBS1 customers.

Now with Steam and BF2 and so on you do not have to use the managed servers. If I understand it correctly, you can hang out in the cheater servers if you so choose. If you do not want to be bothered managing them youself, then there is the option of managed servers where you the 'admin' don't have to admin.

The problem though is that there is no way atm to effectively reign in the addon chaos that exists sufficently to support both externally managed servers and the full range of modability we're accustomed to. BIS would need a hire a whole ton of people who do nothing but spend all day downloading and auditing community content. And where would the revenue come from to pay their salaries? I don't see BIS as being the kind of outfit to rent servers at EA-style monthly rates.

The problem is that we the community like our anarchy, and can't be bothered to resolve the underlying issues. If we don't take care of it now, it's only going to get worse in ArmA and Game2. Anyways, that's the problem with Steam-type online play systems for micro-moddable games such as OFP. That could be largely resolved though through vastly improved community cooperation and coordination. That's our problem, not BIS's.

BIS's problem would be that of backwards integration of legacy products. With Steam, you can integrate older pre-Steam games into your Steam account for a unified launcher and server browser, updates, etc. That is, unless like in my case, if your CD-Key's have not been dupped by a keygen. I bought the HL:Platinum pack a couple years ago, but never set up Steam or registered the CD-Key's because I was on dialup and the modem was on another computer, and I wasn't playing MP anyway. So when I did get broadband and Steam, I found out that some bot had key-gen'd my old key's.

So I spent a couple days digging on the Steam Support, and the answer was if I sent in my CD sleeves with the CD-Key stickers and $10 for each of the four games, then they would 'graciously' revert the keys back to me. I don't have a problem sending in the sleeves, but I am not going to buy my game twice. Wait a sec, if you stop to read the EULA you're only buying a license to utilize their content. So they can charge you for as many licenses as they care to.

I have no problem paying once for one game. That's capitalism. But I am not going to pay twice for the same game, that's a ripoff.

I guess where I'm going with all this rambling is that the bag bad 'Steam' comprises several different components which can be taken independently of each other. Just food for thought.

[mikefictiti0us 0]

Pro, because there won't be a publishener who sets the deadline...

Best example is jsut released XÅ‚.... these was burstin into pieces at the beginning, because of all these damn bugs creeping around.

Steam->Money for the GameStudio itself

Steam->Instant patching

Steam->No illegal copies

Steam->Less bugs

and so on...

No illegal copies? Actually, every game that has been released on Steam thus far has been cracked by warez groups so that you can play them independently, without having Steam running. Half Life 2 was cracked within a matter of hours after Steam enabled everyone to play.

My real problem with Steam is that it MUST be enabled and running for you to play any Steam games. They should have made it so that Steam starts, validates, you pick a game and then Steam shuts down just after the game starts.

[Baphomet 0]

FUCKING NO!

I hate steam. There's a reason why I will never buy a valve product again, and that's steam. Having your programs forcibly updated (thus breaking them) unless you wish to commit large amounts of HD space to backing up your game (all completely pointless).

And the sheer audacity of a company to tell me that I have to run a piece of shit spyware program that has NOTHING to do with the game, IMO stealing valuable memory and cpu time otherwise dedicated to my game, is insulting and selfish.

Every time I'd experience a brief stutter in the game I'd wonder if it would have happened if I had some garbage, tit-useless front end program hogging up system resources with stupid animated ads and the like. It's completely unnecessary.

You have to understand that steam has in effect made it EASIER to acquire their content without paying. It also is shafting the paying customer whom the company should be protecting, but they're not they're greedy. When I buy a product. I expect it to serve ME, the end user who bought it. The EULA for HL2 clearly states that after 30 days they can cancel your account (thus disabling functionality of a game) at will. YOU AGREE TO THIS!?

I personally will never touch a BIS product ever again if they opt for a system like this, and take the easy way out instead of EARNING my business. I'd encourage everyone I got to buy OFP to do the same thing...

Steam serves only one entity, and that's Valve. Anyone who perceives any benefit from it as an end user is a chump, and or a retard. Their system was nothing short of exploitative of a successful franchise knowing most people would grudgingly "put up" with it.

Quote[/b] ]Quote (k@voven @ Dec. 03 2005,21:19)

Pro, because there won't be a publishener who sets the deadline...

Best example is jsut released XÅ‚.... these was burstin into pieces at the beginning, because of all these damn bugs creeping around.

Steam->Money for the GameStudio itself?

Steam->Instant patching

Steam->No illegal copies

Steam->Less bugs

and so on...

Steam->Money for the GameStudio itself?

For a company that's getting so much return on an investment valve sure is sticking it to the end user...

Steam->Instant patching

I'll take downloaded patches at the expense of not having my games borked when I get cut off, or I lose a feature I previously liked, or the game itself gets screwed up worse because the new patch created new bugs. I can't remember how many times I waited on OFP patches because I wanted to make sure they didn't make things WORSE. If I don't have that freedom of choice, I WON'T support that company. Period.

Steam->No illegal copies

Lies.

Steam->Less bugs

Again... lies. Or fanboy idealism... take your pick.

Lies. Propaganda. Less bugs my ass! SO many people I know have been put off by steam because of it's frequent forced patching, getting cut off by the server and having their game borked so they can't play it when they want.

If I BUY something. I want to USE it whenever I want. I also want to run ANY version of that program I want. I know there's a so-called option to turn off automatic updates, but why is it always on when you restart steam? Because you really don't have a choice.

Quote[/b] ]

No illegal copies? Actually, every game that has been released on Steam thus far has been cracked by warez groups so that you can play them independently, without having Steam running. Half Life 2 was cracked within a matter of hours after Steam enabled everyone to play.

My real problem with Steam is that it MUST be enabled and running for you to play any Steam games. They should have made it so that Steam starts, validates, you pick a game and then Steam shuts down just after the game starts.

True... Like I said. Steam has actually made it easier for people to pirate their content. What's embarassing about this, is that paying customers are PAYING for the same inconveniences that the pirates are... where is Valve protecting the customer?

Quote[/b] ]The problem is that we the community like our anarchy, and can't be bothered to resolve the underlying issues. If we don't take care of it now, it's only going to get worse in ArmA and Game2. Anyways, that's the problem with Steam-type online play systems for micro-moddable games such as OFP. That could be largely resolved though through vastly improved community cooperation and coordination. That's our problem, not BIS's.

I like being able to modify and play OFP mods/addons/etc to suit the way I play. Everything I use for OFP is subject to tweaking to my standards. If I were to lose that because people wanted to generate some community wide concensus (read: shitty comprimises on how the game is played). I might as well just buy BF2 and be done with it.

OFP to me embodies freedom, freedom from retarded bullshit like steam, and freedom from someone imposing their will on how a game should look, sound, play, etc. Without that, it's not half the game it could be.

[Hekezu 0]

There is no need to give any money to a middleman so software can be priced more friendly.

Except Valve? Also, not having a "proper" publisher means extra costs for the developer as they will need to handle support (Dunno how much the steam support thing covers though), advertising and PR themselves.

Quote[/b] ]Also cheating may freeze your account, so any game you have bought through steam stops working.

This is imo. quite unfair and ridiculous. I dont think that would even be legal to do here, if Steam would be ran by a Finnish company...

By a middleman I meant shipping and handling companies. I should have said "no need to give any money to another middleman" because there is just Valve, the software company and the customer (plus of course credit card companies).

I am pretty sure that Valve makes Steam much more temptating to a software developer by offering more profit per sold product than bigger publishers.

And what comes to legal issues. For example OFP had the Codemasters software license agreement. It says: "TERMINATION: Without prejudice to any other rights of Codemasters, this Agreement will terminate automatically if you fail to comply with its terms and conditions. In such event, you must destroy all copies of the Program and all its component parts."

So I think Valve has every right to control and protect their products but I am not aware how it contradicts with Finnish laws. It is pretty much same situation with every publisher so it is "unfair" with almost every game. But of course they can't come and take away your computer because of a license termination. But they can protect themselves from legal actions. Valve is special because their platform can immediately terminate the agreement by deleting or banning your account or individual products.

But all in all, I don't believe that BIS will use Steam. I just don't mind if they do so. In my mind Steam's good points win the bad points.

[M4XSs 0]

If BIS people think they would benefit more if they did that why not.

Ill buy the game either ways anyhow!

Most People here vote NO steam. NO PB!

I fear we will end with a naked game.