I.R.A Fired on british paras 1st on bloody sunday

[Guest]

An IRA gunman has come out and said that they fired on the paras 1st.

[el Gringo Loco 1]

It still doesn't justify shooting 13 civilians without any fire arms. It mainly proves that it is impossible to use combat units like the paras for controlling riots. They resort too quickly to indiscriminate violence by emptying their guns at the crowd while the gunmen were not clearly identified. Here in Holland that is called Murder. 108 shots were fired, and no one was actually hit that was carrying a gun.

This is the blackest and most scandalous day of the para regiment. Don't call me pro IRA or something, but I can't see how the killing of 13 unarmed protestors can be justified.

[Guest]

The amount of abuse the paras got, i can see why they shot.

[madmike 0]

Bloody sunday was so long ago, it was when Britian was making the rulebook on riots.

The army are totally different in riots today.

The troops are scared in riots, anyone would be if they were having petrol bombs, acid bombs, pipe bombs, bricks and piant thrown at them.

In NI the british army learned so much about the tactics of controling riots and are now the best at this.

In Kosovo they took over control from over 150 french troops(I think?) that had full riot gear.

The British had no protection and less amnpower but managed to control the two crowds from fighting.

[el Gringo Loco 1]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">The amount of abuse the paras got, i can see why they shot.<span id='postcolor'>

Soldiers of that caliber should be professionals all the way. Throwing stones doesn't justify soldiers emptying there guns on the crowd. I really cannot see how you can justify what happened over there.

Yes the IRA did some really disgusting things, hence the name terrorists. But soldiers need to be professionals. Suppose you were in a bank. A gunmen steps in and shoots into the ceiling. Police on the outside hear the shot and start shooting 108 bullets at random through the windows of the bank. Only in 3rd world countries you run the risk to get shot by security forces when you are protesting. Is the UK a 3rd world country? don't think so.

The Para's blundered big time, btw this is also the general idea at the para regiment self. I have a friend who's in the british para's and the incident is used in their "lessons learned" program. So if even the Para's acknowledge that their action was wrong, how the hell can you justify it. By saying that you acknowledge a total lacking of moral values and human rights.

After the incident british army learned lots on controlling riots and now they are very proficient in it. But Bloody Sunday was clearly the example of how not to do it

[caz 0]

because of the shootings and dead 100's joined up to join the I.R.A.

Being a protestant and coming from N.Ireland i feel that they were wrong just to open up on anything that moved, but u cant really say anything unless u were there :/

[Hilandor 1]

Indeed Television doesnt show the true happenings in N Ireland, my brother was out there with infantry 2 years ago and told me some stories that fair opened my eyes

[KingBeast 0]

Indeed it is not justifiable whatsoever what happened back then.

But i empathise with the soldiers involved to be honest, true they acted in a comletely twattish fasion, but they were probably very scared and tense. Guess they just lost it, and because of that innocents died. Which wasnt on.

[madmike 0]

My dads just come back from NI and he was there during the 70s when it was troops were being murdered by the IRA every day.

I have no sympathy for the civilians that died on bloody sunday, they had the choice not to riot but they did. They didnt have to be there, they are the people that cause the tax payer billions.

[Guest]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (caz @ Jan. 19 2002,14:35)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">because of the shootings and dead 100's joined up to join the I.R.A.

Being a protestant and coming from N.Ireland i feel that they were wrong just to open up on anything that moved, but u cant really say anything unless u were there :/<span id='postcolor'>

No offense but i dont see why you should be able to blow up manchester city centre.

[Guest]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (madmike @ Jan. 19 2002,14:55)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">My dads just come back from NI and he was there during the 70s when it was troops were being murdered by the IRA every day.

I have no sympathy for the civilians that died on bloody sunday, they had the choice not to riot but they did. They didnt have to be there, they are the people that cause the tax payer billions.<span id='postcolor'>

True

And i never said it justified i only said i can see why they cracked.

[madmike 0]

The way I see it is those troops lives are more important than the scum that were fighting.

If you were being fired at and having bombs thrown at you, which could easily kill you and others then the shooting of people that you 100% believe are a danger to your life and others is ok.

The people that died would have been doing something wrong because they shouldnt have been there, they must have been throwing stuff

[Guest]

If gunfire comes from the crowd u aint gonna stand there and do nuffin.

[madmike 0]

I believe that if the Paras had done nothing, they would have been wasted with a lot of dead troops.

Also if they had never shown up the two groupswould have killed each other anyway

[caz 0]

monkey lib front , read my post again

im a PROTESTANT , not a catholic...IRA is a catholic terrorist group, they blew up Manchester

[Dangus 0]

First off, the whole matter is absurdly exaggerated in the press. The fact of the matter is, Northern Ireland has a lower murder rate than England. Whereas England has something like 4.2 per 100,000(and rising), NI has a rate around 3 per 100,000. In fact murder is so rare there in general that is pretty much is only related to the political fighting.

The BBC and other news outlets like to show pictures of the most slummy, crappiest neighbhorhood in all of Belfast and try to make the world think that justifies the police state that these people live under. For all the talk of the IRA, lets not forget that the UDA(Protestant terrorists) has killed almost 3 times as many people over the years. Of course you never hear about them in the news because they don't want you to.

There are a lot of Irish people who are rightfully pissed off that Cromwell came into Ireland in the 1500s, murdered 1 million people, and then imported Scots and Welsh to replace the people he wiped out in the Northern counties. Lets not forget that England has it's own holocaust, not to mention the slaves that the English made out of some of the Irish and sent to the Carribean.

That said, much of what the more extreme and out of control elements of the IRA do is inexcusable.

[Guest]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (madmike @ Jan. 19 2002,14:55)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">My dads just come back from NI and he was there during the 70s when it was troops were being murdered by the IRA every day.

I have no sympathy for the civilians that died on bloody sunday, they had the choice not to riot but they did. They didnt have to be there, they are the people that cause the tax payer billions.<span id='postcolor'>

I think you'll find that they *did* have to be there. They weren't there for fun, they were there to protest over a lack of civil and human rights. The reaction of the soldiers proves this.

It might also be pointed out that they were paying tax to a government which was doing nothing to help the abuse they received and the fear they lived in. Murder is murder, on both sides of the line, and is inexcusable under (almost) any circumstance.

The soldiers responsible should be brought to justice, just like many of those responsible for far lesser offences.

[MP 0]

Well said Dangus but especially the part where you said:

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">much of what the more extreme and out of control elements of the IRA do is inexcusable<span id='postcolor'>

I will definatly agree with this comment. The "Real IRA" are not the best side of the organisation. They are indeed scum. But what Dangus has stated above is the real truth. This is where I come from... The media not letting all of you know the truth...

It just saddens me that you all will never fully understand (except for caz).

SSH

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">I think you'll find that they *did* have to be there. They weren't there for fun, they were there to protest over a lack of civil and human rights. The reaction of the soldiers proves this.

It might also be pointed out that they were paying tax to a government which was doing nothing to help the abuse they received and the fear they lived in. Murder is murder, on both sides of the line, and is inexcusable under (almost) any circumstance.

The soldiers responsible should be brought to justice, just like many of those responsible for far lesser offences. <span id='postcolor'>

Damn right the soldier's responsable should be brought to justice. They fired on a unarmed civilian protest, where's the logic in that. And Monkey LibFront, You don't fire on a civilian croud just because the call you names or throw rock's 'n' stuff at you and I think that your topic name is simply outragous, "The IRA fired on british paras 1st on bloody sunday".

If the situation were reversed (i.e IRA fireing on prod civilians) then I can guarantee you that the IRA soldiers would have been hanged the next day...

[madmike 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">You don't fire on a civilian croud just because the call you names or throw rock's 'n' stuff <span id='postcolor'>

What you mean stuff like petrol bombs, acid bombs, pipe bombs as well as hiting you with baseball bats/iron bars/knives.

All of those are killers.

Thye army went there to stop the trouble

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">I think you'll find that they *did* have to be there. They weren't there for fun, they were there to protest over a lack of civil and human rights. The reaction of the soldiers proves this<span id='postcolor'>

They didnt have to protest in phyical force, any civilised people would do this talking.

They have the same rights as anyone else in Britian

Now all the riots are film by the RUC to give solid evidence and help convict the trouble makers.

[Dangus 0]

Generally, even though I'm not fond of the Catholic Church, I side with the catholics on this issue. I do not, however, condone attacking a school with crowbars and hammers and then acting indignant when someone tries to stop you. Anyone who gets shot because they are endangering school children, and attacking what by all means should amount to holy ground, gets little sympathy from me.

The English really have no business being in Northern Ireland, but then again, neither do the seperatists who attacked the school. We should send both groups to Afghanistan and force them to deal with people even more insane than themselves.

[madmike 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"><span id='postcolor'>

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">The English really have no business being in Northern Ireland<span id='postcolor'>

Its not the just the english, the welsh gaurds are out thier at the moment and they are there to help and restore peace, not to be targeted and murdered

Also Northern Ireland is part of Great Britiain so they have every right to assist the RUC

[MP 0]

The IRA have no quarrels with the Welsh Guard. To tell you the truth I have great respect for the Welsh. As far as I know they have never done anything to "offend" the Irish comunity...

[KingBeast 0]

I do believe Welsh and Scottish were sent to Ireland to quell the rebellion. At least i think thats what it said on the documentary the other night.

( im talking about back in the day. Old times)

[madmike 0]

No the Welsh gaurds are there because its thier turn to do the 6 month tour of NI, it has nothing to do with where they come from.

The IRA dont make much trouble in NI at the moment

(probably busy training rebels in Columbia), its mainly splinter fractions.

The riots are caused by teenages generaly causing trouble like in Bradford last year. They used excuses to fight and riot.

When the Welsh gaurd was there in the 70s they lost a few men from landmines, booby traps and all the other nasty stuff.

[Guest]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (madmike @ Jan. 19 2002,20:37)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">They didnt have to protest in phyical force, any civilised people would do this talking.

They have the same rights as anyone else in Britian

Now all the riots are film by the RUC to give solid evidence and help convict the trouble makers.<span id='postcolor'>

You miss the point. They didn't have the same rights as everyone else in Britain, that's why they were protesting. There had been peaceful protests before then, but they were widely ignored.

I do not and cannot condone violent protests, but I also refuse to condone minority groups being denied religous freedoms, the right to protection from a non-biased police force and the rights to equal employment opportunities. Deny this fact all you want, Catholics in Northern Ireland were being refused these rights.

See how calm you'd remain if you were treated like they were.