JIP

[chipper 0]

Regardless of whether it suites the mission or not, JIP should always be enabled for when things get messy and people drop out in the middle of that same mission that took so much effort, so that they may reconnect and enjoy finishing it.

Totally Agree!

[deanosbeano 0]

im kinda hoping we can do a little, name player in list = jip ok

type thing to allow for the above situations.

oops, why not password ? well because sometimes people who have password join but theres only enough ai ,for the guy who just

discon ,so it would stop any need to reassign . cruel but stops any messin about .

[whisper 0]

im kinda hoping we can do a little, name player in list = jip ok

type thing to allow for the above situations.

oops, why not password ? well because sometimes people who have password join but theres only enough ai ,for the guy who just

discon ,so it would stop any need to reassign . cruel but stops any messin about .

Something we could, I hope, do, is no pass on server, admin select s the mission, people chose their positions, admin launch the game, and the first thing players see is a box asking for a user/passwd to set for the current game.

This way, any1 using JiP to join after needs to fill an existing user/passwd to be put back in his original squad. If it's some1 joining but who was not there initially, he's put somewhere useless, without anything to do or see. Or, if there's a command to do it, he's disconnected.

That way, only people present at mission start (ie who have set a user/passwd for their position) can rejoin in progress if they have a connection issues, etc...

Most of this could be done with scripts, I think.

[Big Dawg KS 6]

im kinda hoping we can do a little, name player in list = jip ok

type thing to allow for the above situations.

oops, why not password ? well because sometimes people who have password join but theres only enough ai ,for the guy who just

discon ,so it would stop any need to reassign . cruel but stops any messin about .

Something we could, I hope, do, is no pass on server, admin select s the mission, people chose their positions, admin launch the game, and the first thing players see is a box asking for a user/passwd to set for the current game.

This way, any1 using JiP to join after needs to fill an existing user/passwd to be put back in his original squad. If it's some1 joining but who was not there initially, he's put somewhere useless, without anything to do or see. Or, if there's a command to do it, he's disconnected.

That way, only people present at mission start (ie who have set a user/passwd for their position) can rejoin in progress if they have a connection issues, etc...

Most of this could be done with scripts, I think.

Why not simply let the admin decide? If it's not someone they want to join, kick them off. It's a lot simpler with human componants.

[deanosbeano 0]

Quote[/b] ]Why not simply let the admin decide? If it's not someone they want to join, kick them off. It's a lot simpler with human componants

have you ever been on a public serever with voted admins ?

also with the above ways , it eliminates pressure to reassign for little reason .thus eliminates "reasiiiiiiiiiiiigggggggnnnn" type idiots.

who of course can be eliminated earlier by simply spotting there "go go go go" type statements

[Big Dawg KS 6]

have you ever been on a public serever with voted admins ?

Yes, usually the first players there vote themselves in, and the "noobish" types don't strike me as the type to join empty servers. That's also why it's a vote, let the rest of the players decide who they want to be admin.

[UNN 0]

Quote[/b] ]This way, any1 using JiP to join after needs to fill an existing user/passwd to be put back in his original squad. If it's some1 joining but who was not there initially, he's put somewhere useless, without anything to do or see. Or, if there's a command to do it, he's disconnected.

I don't see much in the way of new Arma commands, to do this sort of thing? Which is a shame. Perhaps if some of those nifty create config file commands make their way from VBS to Arma But I'm sure someone will come up with a suite of scripts to get the most out of JIP.

As for enabling\disabling JIP, I don't see what’s wrong with giving the server admin the option? But either way, it's not the end of the world. Looks like you can do enough with mission params and the two JIP commands currently posted on the wiki, to cover most of the issues mentioned here. But there are definitely scenarios where you would want to stop lots of people connecting to your server. Lets hope that can be done by setting the number of playable units or something.

[stegman 3]

Quote[/b] ]This way, any1 using JiP to join after needs to fill an existing user/passwd to be put back in his original squad. If it's some1 joining but who was not there initially, he's put somewhere useless, without anything to do or see. Or, if there's a command to do it, he's disconnected.

I don't see much in the way of new Arma commands, to do this sort of thing? Which is a shame. Perhaps if some of those nifty create config file commands make their way from VBS to Arma But I'm sure someone will come up with a suite of scripts to get the most out of JIP.

As for enabling\disabling JIP, I don't see what’s wrong with giving the server admin the option? But either way, it's not the end of the world. Looks like you can do enough with mission params and the two JIP commands currently posted on the wiki, to cover most of the issues mentioned here. But there are definitely scenarios where you would want to stop lots of people connecting to your server. Lets hope that can be done by setting the number of playable units or something.

Amen.

[lwlooz 0]

A combination of JIP and selectPlayer and some dialogs should like make PW-joining specific groups in a running mission no problem?

Like,you have 10 Civilian JIP slots,once you join a dialog pops up,you enter you squad and a PW and boom ,selectPlayer to leader of said squad.

With "SetPlayable false" which currently isnt avaible,you also could like shut off squads for JIP that have disconnected players which would be of some use.

Edit:Change SetPlayer to proper command-name "SelectPlayer" .What a silly name that is

[UNN 0]

Quote[/b] ]A combination of JIP and setPlayer and some dialogs should like make PW-joining specific groups in a running mission no problem?

I'm not that familiar with the MP side of things, so even simple tasks like reserving a slot for given time period, so people are allowed to return to a game if they CTD or something. Seems a little complicated.

Add to that, if you can package addons with a mission along with music e.t.c as mentioned in another thread. What kind of load will it put on a server, if every five minutes someone new is connecting and loading the mission? You really want something that kicks in before they start to load the bulk of the mission.pbo, but thats probably asking to much atm. Seen as the true implications of JIP will only be realised once Arma is up and running online, for a few months.

I would not blame BIS if they wanted to keep things simple, for the time being. A basic on\off switch for JIP would certainly do that.

[Londoner 0]

Not being able to JIP on OFP is at best the most annoying feature of the game.

I don't want to wait in the lobby for 45min, and I don't want to wait around for a team of people on a pub server to fill up.

JIP work's on most multiplayer games, COD, RO, ET, UO BF2 etc..

You need to attract people to this game, and make it easy for them to get in and play.

Those who want hyper realistic games can have their servers locked down, but I'm sure most people would like the ability to jump in and play

[Dwarden 1124]

this debate is funny ...

i think i said that already that best solutions are simple ones

1. mission maker select "preferable" option (default choice w/o server admin interfere)

2. server owner select "WHAT he WANT" in other words JIP is either ON or OFF (HE own/control the server HE decide what,how,why is played) ...

problem solved, absolute freedom on variety ...

not interested in people who join later via JIP ?

simple lock server by password

want more?

demand function to "refuse" JIP request (e.g. in case of COOP games) for game admins / squad leaders / squad vote etc. ....

[bravo 6 0]

<span style='font-size:21pt;line-height:100%'>Negative side:</span>

Im kinda afraid of this new feature (Join In Progress).. because we only have small information about it. We need more info.

At the moment i think of it as a possible respawn/cheat, or another way that people have to respawn to continue the mission if the respawn script is not enable.

I would like to post some ideas i read:

"In addition, when you add respawns to a game then you take away the value of life in the game, and in so doing, you take away the realism. Peel back the respawns to one life only, and suddenly the game takes a giant step towards realism. Points mean nothing - survival and being the last man standing, thereby winning, does."

source: Lightspeed

<span style='font-size:21pt;line-height:100%'>Positive side:</span>

In other hand the JIP can also be very inspiring for the mission makers, it could work as a reenforcement of friendly units to the field giving the mission more taste.

With this new JIP feature opens the possibility to make missions even more active, durable by extending them making them more interesting with a positive point of view.

As BIS said missions could now take days, weeks etc.

Thats positive in my opinion but if its used for "respawn" it will suck big time and i as a mission maker will not use it.

ps- I really hope BIS think a good and fair way to implement this JIP (Join In Progress).

[zyklone 1]

Regardless of whether it suites the mission or not, JIP should always be enabled for when things get messy and people drop out in the middle of that same mission that took so much effort, so that they may reconnect and enjoy finishing it.

The way JIP appears to be implemented in Elite this just isn't possible.

You need to actually code missions to support JIP which can be tricky.

If your mission doesn't support JIP then the newly connected player will miss any information on things that already happened.

Luckily in Elite there is a hook that's exectued when a player connects that can be used to update the newly connected player on what has happened so far.

But forcing missions to be something other than what the mission designer coded it to be will just never work.

[UNN 0]

Thanks salisan, didn't think to ask over on the Elite forums.

Could you give us more info on how it's used\works out in some of the different mission types for OFP Elite? Or perhaps thats a better posted on the Elite forum?

[maxqubit 1]

Thanks salisan, didn't think to ask over on the Elite forums.

Could you give us more info on how it's used\works out in some of the different mission types for OFP Elite? Or perhaps thats a better posted on the Elite forum?

For co-op it works like this in Elite

1. Host decides on the mission (could be standard ofpe or own mission)

2. Host decides if missing real players is filled with AI (say its a coop for 6 and there are only 3 online, you could have the rest (3) AI soldiers)

3. Host can use Friendslist, this is typical Xbox Live feature AND THIS IS GREAT(!) and assign 0 to max slots to 'Friends Only' ... so if you don't like kiddies, well just make the mission available to 'friends only' Great stuff:)

4. Every player can choose which character he/she play before the mission start (Host can assign too)

5. Host starts the mission (in case of user mission, parameters are uploaded to the other players)

Now we get to the JIP feature!

If AI slots were allowed and AI soldiers participate (say a mission for 6 was started with 2 live players and 4 AI players) you will have JIP slots (in this case 4) available.

A. If a real live player dies he can 'respawn' in a AI player of his choice (if JIP slots are still available).

B. If a real live player disconnects for whatever reason he can JIP the mission as above (provided there are still JIP slots and he can find the lobby)

C. If a new real live player arrives he can JIP the mission as above (provided JIP slots are available)

If no more JIP slots are available you will become a seagull once you die:)

In OFP:Elite this worked great. (Let me advocate again that the tight integration of game and xbl is imho great and relaxing stuff ... although there are games wich have a horrible lobby system, OFP:E has a great lobby system)

[Heatseeker 0]

JIP might do more harm than good, OPFR MP requires some "dedication" to get going and yet you still find some people doing the most stupid things. Most of those who play (even without JIP) know that the experience is worth it and play because they really like the game. I've joined empty servers and had some good coops with people i didnt know in the past, all it took was a good admin and some luck with the people that join .

With Arma being all new and featuring JIP im expecting the great invasion of the idiots, TK'ers, cheaters and the ordinary online FPS gamer (wich is an asshole by nature).

I dont think i will bother with pubs in Arma... atleast in the first 2.5 years.

[VISTREL 0]

I disagree. Lack of JIP contributed to small number of OFP players. Most of newbies, and potential good players, might get turned off by OFP style of server, and will move on to other games.

Imho, option to turn on/off JIP is the best compromise.

[UNN 0]

Quote[/b] ]If no more JIP slots are available you will become a seagull once you die:)

That sounds good, so if your willing to abide by the mission. Your slot will always be reserved?

Quote[/b] ](provided there are still JIP slots and he can find the lobby)

What happens if the position becomes full in the mean time. Do you still have a lobby, where you can chat to the server admin. Or are prevented from joining the server altogether?

Cheers

[maxqubit 1]

Quote[/b] ]If no more JIP slots are available you will become a seagull once you die:)

That sounds good, so if your willing to abide by the mission. Your slot will always be reserved?

Yep. (btw you could lock the server and play it with the same ppl as it started, apart from the disconnect that is. You can also leave out the AI, but a mission designed for 6 playing with only 2-3 is of course a bit more hard:)

Quote[/b] ](provided there are still JIP slots and he can find the lobby)

What happens if the position becomes full in the mean time. Do you still have a lobby, where you can chat to the server admin. Or are prevented from joining the server altogether?

Umm, from memory.

Example: You have a lobby of 8 max, but there are currently only 3 ppl. You start a co-op designed for 5 with only 3 ppl + 2 AI. You'd have 2 respawn/JIPs ...

Now:

- if a new person (nr 4) enters he can take the 1st JIP

- if you die you (can) respawn in the 2nd JIP

- if you die again you will become a seagull, as will the others when they die (until mission completed or all died:)

- if a new person (nr5) enters he will be in the lobby and has to wait as are nr 6,7, 8 ... and the server is full.

- if the server is full and you are getting disconneted cause the wife tripped over the network cable, you could find 'server full' cause a 9th person was able to enter ... but then again you can send a msg to the host and normally he will ask the 9th person to leave because of mentioned reason (or he could kick him) ... Lots of things going on on xbl, my rule is simple 'The host is the boss, you play by the rules of the host or you are out':)

Btw, you can also lock the server so nobody new can enter the loby, and there is this friends/public slots thing ... you can pretty much do everything ... and kicking, muting, etc:)

(i'd say, this xbl thingy is not so bad after all ... sorry i couldn't resist:)

[frederf 0]

I belong to a cooperative gaming unit that plans to have large large numbers of players at one time. This means maybe 100 JIP slots and being able to leave yours and come back and select Alpha Orange 6 sepecifically. Is it possible to uniquely identify and select which JIP slot you wish you join as? Also is it possible to password certain/all JIPs?

[maxqubit 1]

I belong to a cooperative gaming unit that plans to have large large numbers of players at one time. This means maybe 100 JIP slots and being able to leave yours and come back and select Alpha Orange 6 sepecifically. Is it possible to uniquely identify and select which JIP slot you wish you join as? Also is it possible to password certain/all JIPs?

Yes, you can uniquely identity the JIP slot/role .. like medic, sniper, rifle man 2, tk commander Bravo or something like that.

The host can assign also.

No password protection.

Ehh, and another thing. In Elite you could NOT 'just' leave and come back. In case of disconnect the soldier freezes i think (or does he die?) anyway, the AI doesn't take over so you can't return to him (ermmm i think .. i should check this one time:)

A true kind of logoff/logon system (with a password, now i understand why you ask this;) is NOT in Elite.

For grand scale ongoing mission this would be very nice ... Dunno if ArmA will have this (but i think Game2 must have this)

[bravo 6 0]

sounds interesting

Edit: I have some questions about this JIP feature:

1- Where does the JIP player starts? Will he start at base as the mission maker desires (available slots for JIP) or will it go to the AI living bodys in the already action squad?

If we want like 50 units to use JIP, will we need to creat 50 empty slots (playable) for this people who will arrive and use JIP? it may cause lag, no?

2- If we want to have 100 units for JIP will they come one by one entering the game using JIP also one by one (ex: 5 mins after another 5 mins) in the connecting order or will they come and join mission like in squads using fully ocupied vehicles ( makes more sence, as reenforcement )?

ps- by using this feature the enemys must be by thousands, and not hundreds only. This feature might/must turn missions into really really massive battles

[maxqubit 1]

sounds interesting :)

Edit: I have some questions about this JIP feature:

1- Where does the JIP player starts? Will he start at base as the mission maker desires (available slots for JIP) or will it go to the AI living bodys in the already action squad?

If we want like 50 units to use JIP, will we need to creat 50 empty slots (playable) for this people who will arrive and use JIP? it may cause lag, no?

2- If we want to have 100 units for JIP will they come one by one entering the game using JIP also one by one (ex: 5 mins after another 5 mins) in the connecting order or will they come and join mission like in squads using fully ocupied vehicles ( makes more sence, as reenforcement )?

ps- by using this feature the enemys must be by thousands, and not hundreds only. This feature might/must turn missions into really really massive battles :o

Player starts in a living playable AI soldier of his chosing

So, if you want max 50 players you create a mission for 50 players (btw the max in Elite co-op was 12 players!). You could start alone(!) with 49 AI soldiers and 1 by 1 more ppl jump in.

Of course you can go about with these 49 AI soldiers (as far as your role allows you to control them), or just leave them at the base.

Designate a kind of priority and/or grouping of JIPs is NOT in Elite, so in big co-ops it could well turn into chaos:) ... E.g. a JIP squad, and the first JIP player takes the sniper (who cannot take control of this squad) and not the commander of that squad is a bit weird:)

... of course the true OFP player will abide by the orders of his commander so if you design a mission for 4 teams of 12, and you start with 4 ppl, each taking the role of team commander, the ppl who later on JIP should by nature fall under command of the 4 starting players:)

NOTE:Perhaps i didn't make this clear. You have playable characters (JIP) but you can of course add nonplayable Ai soldiers on both sides (see 'battle at le port' in my sig which is 80+6 versus 80, so 6 playable/JIP rest AI)

Most success/fun i had was with relativly small co-ops say max 6 players/JIP, the rest was non-playable AI on both sides, you know the move, cycle, search, destroy, guard, getin/getout waypoint stuff.

I'm positive that ArmA will provide much more flexibility in setting up these kind of thing. Like making only the commanders playable/JIP and the team members non-playable ... Hmmm, i dunno about the command level structure in ArmA. In Elite the squad commander was highest, so if there were 2 or more squads you could only control 1 squad maximum, you'd need a second player to control the 2nd squad, etc.

[lwlooz 0]

If we were to get an Eventhandler "Joined","Disconnected" for units in the game , then you could do with the units whatever you please script-command wise. For example setpos them to whatever place you feel like.

On that note:

How come OnPlayerConnected,onPlayerDisconnected doesn't even has the unit that Player joined into as an parameter? Or does that kick off everytime someone connects/disconnects but yet isn't even in the game world .

Also,if you want to prevent DeltaSniperReconMarine856 to spawn into your squad during an patrol you gotta demand from BIS to change "setPlayable unit" to "unit SetPlayable true/false".

Thus you would be able to shut off any unused AI for JIP at any time

I hate to say the obvious,but the more script control we get over JIP and connected/disconnected players(or the units they left behind) the more sophisticated missions you are going to see.