UNSUNG IS HERE

[The-Architect 0]

What sky is that?

[-SWAT- 1]

These new pictures... are they from a new upcoming version of VTE or are they from the existing one?

[Hawkins 8]

@-SWAT-

These pics are not from VTE, these pics portray the upcoming release of Unsung mod.

@Arch

I think that is the default OFP sky, unless I'm mistaken.

[Warrior Xâ„¢ 0]

To clearify the sky issue. It is standard BIS sky. The fog appears like this because i brightened the pic a bit so that peeps could see it clearly.

Oh and it's THE UNSUNG VIETNAM WAR MOD not VTE! Two completely different things. As VTE is a succesor of the great SEBNAM while THE UNSUNG is a complete new build around the Vietnam war theme for OFP.

thank you  

[The-Architect 0]

NOT @ WarriorX

To clarify. VTE is NOT the successor to Sebnam. The Sebnam stuff was, for it's time, a well made and almost completely bug free pack which has set the benchmark for Nam packs to aspire to. Whilst the Tank portion of the pack was found to be lacking the rest was and still is the best there is.

VTE has way too many bugs to be considered anything but a fancy pack full of second rate addons (check the faces on some of those units), and missions that are either stolen without permission, not finished or not even worth downloading.

Taking the massive download into account, SebNamPack2 is still by far the better option.

The jury is still out on the Unsung stuff. They seem to have less done and their quality isn't as hot in individual units, but they don't bitch and moan if you comment.

VTE wanted to wow us with big numbers and they have. However, upon further inspection, most proper players will agree that it isn't worth the download.

Don't get me wrong, I understand that there is a massive amount of work gone into it and I give full props to all involved, seriously, but don't try and say it's something it's not.

I love some aspects of the pack, like the new Spad, but most of it, including all the islands are not my cup of tea. The forest bug which makes the trees float spoils a lot of the hilly terrain and though people say it can't be fixed, a workaround is possible but not done.

So you have a reply or are you just gonna stand there and whistle Dixy?  

[Polish GI 0]

@ The-Architect

Interesting comments you have there...  Can't really contest them as I feel the same way...

[-TheOne- 0]

These new pictures... are they from a new upcoming version of VTE or are they from the existing one?

Then they would post that in the VTE topic, not here. Makes sense, doesn't it? VTE pics in the VTE topic, and Unsung pics in the Unsung topic...

[Shinbusan 0]

There is no sense in a war :P

Nice pics Unsung Team. I hope I get this jungle on my computer some day And I hope you will continue your work for ArmA when it will be realeased.

[Hawkins 8]

We will be there for ArmA, you can count on that. And, we are here now too, and you will get that jungle soon enough. We just need to make sure that we can let you in there. It's a bloody place, full of little people, you know...

[sim 0]

Little people who want to blow your head off....

As Hawkins said, we will be here for ArmA, can't get rid of us that easily

[Polish GI 0]

We are just getting up to speed now...  or cruising altitude...  whatever analogy you want to use.

We have so many ideas for future pieces of work that it is not funny.

Myself, I would love to remap Vietnam and Laos as countries... but time will tell... obviously not without putting our best foot forward as far as quality/playability given the engines of choice (aka OFP or in ArmA).

[Warrior Xâ„¢ 0]

Some recon photo's of VC patrols going by really close:

The highlands are spooky man. Charlie can jump at you from a bush two feet away from you...

[-)rStrangelove 0]

That jungle looks great, as is the demo i have just installed.

If you want to hear my honest opinion:

i think the amount of bushes on the ground is far too high, mainly because of balance reasons between fighting human players and ai units.

I couldn't see much further than 5-10m whereas my ai buddies opened fire on unseen vc that were 130m away in thick jungle.

Now don't get me wrong: i also think it's realistic to have thick jungle and it really adds to the tension/atmosphere. It's just that the ai doesn't seem to be hindered by all the bushes and open fire straight away. When fighting alone i got wasted easily by the ai.

I really dunno how to balance this other than taking away about 50% of the bushes between the trees - that would be a good start i think.

My 2 cents, i honestly hope you guys think about it.

[quiet_man 8]

)rStrangelove @ May 13 2006,19:50)]That jungle looks great, as is the demo i have just installed.

If you want to hear my honest opinion:

i think the amount of bushes on the ground is far too high, mainly because of balance reasons between fighting human players and ai units.

I couldn't see much further than 5-10m whereas my ai buddies opened fire on unseen vc that were 130m away in thick jungle.

Now don't get me wrong: i also think it's realistic to have thick jungle and it really adds to the tension/atmosphere. It's just that the ai doesn't seem to be hindered by all the bushes and open fire straight away. When fighting alone i got wasted easily by the ai.

I really dunno how to balance this other than taking away about 50% of the bushes between the trees - that would be a good start i think.

My 2 cents, i honestly hope you guys think about it.

have you applied the patch?

hmm, nothing personal

but if I'm this late on a beta, I would read before posting "suggestions"

this was pretty the first item discussed and improved if I remeber right

quiet_man

[Warrior Xâ„¢ 0]

have you applied the patch?

@ ])rStrangelove

As quiet_man rightfully states, the AI sight issue has been fixed not long after the first beta release. You can find the fix pretty easy by just searching on ofp.info. The fix will have the AI engage you at distances of around 50 away. That means you have a fighting chance on your own. You just need to open your eyes a little and see the enemy uniform moving around two bushes in front of you

And also thnx for the remarks about the new jungle. It's from the second upcoming demo. Not sure when we will release it though. Just in case you were gonna ask  

[Polish GI 0]

I think it is an OFP engine issue.  Problem is that if you run around, the ai will target you at greater distances.  Via a big yellow box following you.

I agree, that part stinks.  Once you are "highlighted", you are the "Number One GI."

What I (we) hope to invoke is to change your personal tactics of the situation/battle.  Let me explain.  In OFP, historically, you could run around while seeing enemy targets, hit the deck when you feel you are being shot WHILE still seeing your target.  With the level of junk we are putting in the jungles, we are virtually eliminating your ability to locate the enemy.  During the Vietnam Conflict, one rarely saw the enemy, or from where the incoming small arms fire was coming from.  Exception to the rule is if you are the ambushing team.  Hence the term, "mad minute,"  fire off a couple of magazines and run like he^^.  

I guarantee you, if you stand up like a historical OFP battle, you will get gunned down.  If you draw attention to yourself by piling off 6 million rounds, you will get gunned down.  It really causes you to learn your terrain and think about the situation you are in...

From my personal experiences, I hit the deck, you have to!  Once you can create a base of fire and locate the enemy force, notice your surroundings.  Is the force big enough to take on?  Do you flee?  There ARE areas in the jungle where you can setup a field of fire and be effective.  It just takes time to relearn.  You have to rethink your approach.

On my new Ia Drang Valley map, I use many different types of grass areas to cover the ground.  Each has a strength and a weakness.  This comes in the form of being too short and hiding well in, while still being able to acquire a target, or the taller grass (e.g. elephant grass) where you do not see anyone until they are 5-10m from you.  In this situation, the more you move, the better chance the enemy will find you.  I find that if you camp out in a patch of elephant grass, the enemy AI forces will literally stumble onto you without seeing you.  Turns into a turkey shoot at that time.  Hence, why I say these maps: current (ghostland) and future (next release and thereafter) will slow down the battle.  Movement is necessary but you have to know when and how and for how long.

I hope this addresses your concern Dr., if not let me know and we can further dialogue.

PGI

[-)rStrangelove 0]

Stupid me. I DLed everything but somehow forgot to unpack the patch.rar. Couldn't wait to play the demo, so ...

Now the fights in thick jungle turned out exactly as Polish GI just posted, thank god for that. Turns Opf into a whole new experience.

I was with 5men against a vc force of 5men, but i told my squad to stay behind - that way they don't crawl 10m before you all the time.

I walked slowly forward until i heard heavy breathings - one of the things that still need fixing i think. It simply takes away the tension if you hear heartbeat and breathing from 100m away.

However, the engagement was pretty intense: noticed a weird tree on the ground, turned out to be the hat of a vc gunner crawling around. Shot him. 1 Vc to the right broke his cover -stormed out of a bush, shot him. 1 Vc tried to get away, shot him. Me mates start firing at an unseen Vc gunner 50m away, so i started walking forward again. Nothing moved. Quite eerie situation since i knew there was 1 Vc still missing. Then i notice a bush which is much darker then the others, turned out to be the Vc leader already aiming at me. He fired, i fired, he goes down. W00h!!

I also checked the other types of terrain, esp the grass plains.

For me the huge elephant grass created that kind of situation i described in my 1st post (nothing can be seen but my ai mates and the vcs open fire from 100m+). Got easily wasted again, no matter if i stand or crawl around. Not really funny.

All in all i think you guys are on the right track, esp the thick jungle parts seem to be perfectly balanced now. I'd like to see the good old IA Trang island from SEB covered by the new jungle patches, that would be the perfect island tbh.

(What's the name of thick jungle model ?)

Btw: that also means i can only use your units that are balanced for the thick jungle, right ?

More ideas that came up:

- add a soundpack that gets rid of the breathing sound when running.

- add some scripts to your units that will randomly play grass or bush sounds that can be noticed if you pay attention. That would further add to the experience. Level of volume should be based on unit speed.

[cozza 24]

Try doing the same thing at night. Scares the hell out of me. Walking along, Bam Bam Bam AK shot for a couple of meters away.

[Polish GI 0]

)rStrangelove @ May 14 2006,12:21)]I'd like to see the good old IA Trang island from SEB covered by the new jungle patches, that would be the perfect island tbh.

It's coming!  The BETA is ready to go!  But it requires an updated Veg file from the Unsung release that is upcoming.  Which is why the new IDV is held back.

http://www.ofpnam.com/e107_plugins/forum/forum_viewtopic.php?1218

@Batdog

Yeah me too! Running around at night is spooky in that jungle...

[-TheOne- 0]

Yeah, I'm allowed to test it. And it looks sexeh....

[Polish GI 0]

@ May 16 2006,22:41)]Yeah, I'm allowed to test it. And it looks sexeh....

I have to ask...  sexeh?  

[Shinbusan 0]

I just asked my group's host if he can add demo#2 to mods on his server. If he will say yes, some of us will test it as soon as it will be released. We are mainly coop fans, so we will test extensivly enemy AI. I hope it will be a good fun Until now we did not have any nam mod on servers, as it was far unplayable (we still play Tonal's jungle and usually new members criy that it is insane :P ).

[NSX 8]

Is Unsing still here? Well,guys, your screens you released on ofp.info drove me crazy...Exellent job and vegetation replacement!

But, will it be released in this life?Last ETA was about a month ago.And still no big news.

[Warrior Xâ„¢ 0]

Is Unsing still here? Well,guys, your screens you released on ofp.info drove me crazy...Exellent job and vegetation replacement!

But, will it be released in this life?Last ETA was about a month ago.And still no big news.

Unsing is not here. The Unsung IS here!    ( bad X! bad bad X! )

Yeah the vegy stuff is looking nice thnx. And yes the next demo will be released in this life and pre AA. We are close, but we ain't sure when exactly we are ready for release. Currently we are fixing minor bugs and we are testing all stuff so that we can give you a bug free demo. We want peeps to concentrate on the next bush they pass and fire like hell when it starts moving instead of going: Hey this dude is walking funny and has a white patch here....

So please bare with us just a tad longer. We as much as you peeps, maybe even more as we wan't to work towards the full mod, want this released to teh public.

Hang in there, keep your heads low and fire at every movement you see. We will be coming in shortly with a new release.

Cheers,

Warrior X™ {The Unsung}  

[sim 0]

As X said Unsung is still here, feel thankful news only happens every now an again. It means we are spending less time taking screenshots (can't really say that for X ) and more time working. We will be here shortly, just be patient and it will have been worth the wait

sim