A Plea

[Cannon Fodder 0]

No, this isn't to do with attempting to get more server hosts or even to get more players into games. It's simply to do with the vast amount of ridiculous CQB maps doing the rounds on multiplayer at the moment - the tight, object heavy desert island based affairs that are, I find, the absolute antithesis of what this game should be about. Ok, fair enough, Flashpoint is a jack of all trades and can handle CQB relatively well (although certainly not perfectly), but to restrict such a glorious engine, capable of so much and has the potential for really magical multiplayer moments, to running and gunning with a G36K on a bland and featureless map... is criminal.

The problem I have with the majority of these maps is that they reduce Flashpoint's tactical gameplay (the use of cover, concealment, choosing the right armament, positioning, teamwork) to that of a common corridor shooter. You normally have, in these maps, 3 or 4 routes to your goal, 1 central area with 2 side paths either side. It's bland, boring, and generic. You've played one of these maps - you've played them all. Not only that, but prepare to be using an awful lot of the G36K. You've been warned. Not only that, but most of these maps have next to no protection against some serious spawn camping - with narrow 'gates' through which teams can run into the spawn area, all it requires is 2 players either side of these gates to mow down an entire team (if adequately covering each other). Not my idea of fun.

One of the many reasons these maps fail is that they rely upon one facet of Flashpoint - that of getting into a firing position from running. Most players of these maps, upon spawning, switch straight to crouch. They run around the map - towards the enemy - until either a) they get into a position from which the enemy will approach, and fire rounds at them or b) see an enemy and then fire rounds at them. Such is the nature of CQB in flashpoint, its normally a case of who gets to their knees first, the first to get into firing position. While it's still reactions that dominate, you literally cannot fire back if somebody has entrenched themselves and you have to get to them - you cannot edge out, due to the imprecise nature of moving small distances in flashpoint while aiming, not only that, but also the horrendous collision detection and the 'corner exploit' of using the ironsights while crouched. You aim down the weapon's sight while your head is 6 inches away, behind a corner. All that is exposed is the weapon, and your ability to fire at somebody while they can't fire at you.

Most clan play, I am sorry to see, is based around these maps in Flashpoint. It's depressing to see such a glorious simulation of military operations reduced to a corridor shooter, where death is unimportant as there's another respawn in 10 seconds, where you'll never use a weapon other than the G36K, where running around buildings and sandbags on desert island is a multiplayer staple.

It's not all bad, there are some maps based in small village-like affairs with cover, some foliage occasionally, maybe even a little woodline for you to use, but playing on these is a rarity, and seems to be the maps used for some variety, soon to be returned to the desert island again. This is just ridiculous. I played a game with one of the desert map staples. He did rather well in that game. After most people left, I was voted in as admin. I started a sniper map. I spent most of the match explaining to him what an M21 was and what 'bullet dip' was. I had to explain to a player of Operation Flashpoint, who I have seen on the servers regularly, how to use a sniper rifle, how to stay in concealment when firing. That is a sorry situation.

I myself have resigned myself to playing either MFCTI, Battlefield 1985 maps, or Co-op. Occasionally you'll get a really good idea, like the hunt the serial killer map (if anyone's played this) where Nogova is open and serial killers have to kill (when they do their position is telegraphed to the other team, acting as police) and blend in. I drove down a highway while the police team chopper flew overhead, unawares I was the killer because I feigned being AI, driving slowly with my lights on. Another fantastic moment. After that I ditched the car and hid in some woods while they put the searchlight on and hunted me. Thrilling. This is the potential that is lacking in these maps!

In short let me say this; this is a plea to those who think a good map is one where you'll only have a G36K, where you'll be running around mazes of buildings on desert island, where some godawful nu-metal or rap plays while the map is introduced, where spawn points are badly protected, where 'vehicle' is a dirty word. THINK DIFFERENTLY ABOUT MAKING AND PLAYING THESE MAPS - THERE'S SO MUCH POTENTIAL IN FLASHPOINT!

You've successfully managed to turn a simulation into an arcade corridor shooter. Isn't Counter Strike enough for you?

[tankieboy 0]

Join a co-op team.

[Balschoiw 0]

...or the CiA coop nights

[korax 4]

You cant tell people what or what not to play. Simple as that.

Some people enjoy these CQB maps all too much, some can manage to tolerate just one round of it. Personally I can play 30 minutes of it without worry, untill the map changes to a larger C&H or Coop or RTS. Thats one good thing about Flashpoint, you could go from a small tight CQB map to a mission where you have to conquer the entire island, without buying a new game altogether. THAT is what OFP is about to me, variety.

So please, if you don't like the missions, just don't play them. Find a server that plays 'your' type of missions, and enjoy the game.

[Cannon Fodder 0]

It was not my intention to tell people what to play - it's just that I feel that there are enough of these desert island run and gun affairs already. I played about 20 odd games over the past couple of nights - 15/20 of them were CQB (a grand title for what actually transpires), and while, true enough, they are fun in moderation, by the end I was exasperated and wanting more. This isn't just on 1 server, this was across 4 or 5. Some servers, understand this, play NOTHING but CQB. That's fine you say, play another. But when you have the severely restricted choice as you do in Flashpoint of public servers, then you have no choice but to play these maps for 3/4 of the time. The other 1/4 just about makes up for it.

Fine then, you might say, just dont play online, or join a co-op team. I have to admit, I'm thinking of joining into the next CiA session (as soon as I get the requisite add-ons...) and getting a team together. It's just I think that it is a sad indication of the current trend of matches in Flashpoint where most multiplayer matches are played in this way. I played on a server where I was lambasted for going prone for god's sake! Where's the sense in that? Stand up so I can shoot you while I run around the map like a lemon?! There's so much more to Flashpoint than these maps - I just wish people would be more willing to embrace the long-range scenarios, the woodland.

[zyklone 1]

There is a huge shortage of good multiplayer mission designers.

And the mission designers we have are in a very tricky situation since it's almost impossible

to use any new addons in online play. Either for balance reasons or for odd "permission" reasons by the addon authors.

And if you choose to use addons most players won't be able to find them.

So what remains is basically a large group of people who play COOPs on private servers, tiny 30min CTFs and CTI.

That CTI has survived so long is surprising considering all the Flashpoint bugs one has to endure.

But I put the blame on this situation entirely on BIS, they woke up a few years too late with their mission design competition.

[Daniel 0]

I completely agree with the first post.

It's just not fun! *despair*

[mattxr 9]

lol when we [sWAF] get our server running, hop in.. i know what u mean but we are creating many coop maps to place onto the server when its set up.. we are going to have a range of coops, Air, Armor, Infantry, Specop - Drug Ops, Combind Arms, Big Battles, Aid Missions. Ill keep u updted when the server is up

All Maps will be SWAF Home Made non of that mumbojumbo noob stuff.. although there will be fun maps like CTF but proper ctf in towns and such..

[lwlooz 0]

Well,Hi Cannon Fodder.

First Off,I am terribly sorry for you,until now you only seem to have played utter crap in OFP.

But I have to tell you something else. There are 20% that see OFP as a wargame,love coop.. cant wait to play large-scale stuff(companys and up in OFP sequels).There are couple of servers out there (like CiA,Zeus,Raab,Volcbat to mention some of them) where you can get proper* OFP gameplay (*=proper imo).If you feel sick of mindless regular fps shoot&run&die BS,join those servers.

But the sad truth is that I would guess about 80% of the OFP community nowadays are exactly people who love Hexenkessel type of stuff. The G36 is l33t.. thats why its used,even better would be a very shiny M4 covered in grease.. fits nicely along with their shiny uniforms.Heck,i would even guess you met a couple of Marines or Deltas while you played on those CQB servers. I think that because of the fact OFP presents its world with the First-Person perspective , it invites people who like to turn their brain off when they play computer games.You have to live with them and try to ignore them as best as you can: "I wAnt to b3 like Sam Fisher in OFP2 Stealth M4 roxxor" "Ah,shut up"

Anyways.. Rant Off.. If you want to enjoy proper gaming,join the minority,we exist

Edit: 80% and 20% of the MP-people.. the real majority just sits around and drools to new addons on desert island

[.kju 3245]

if you are interested in pvp, check

european-combat-league.

uses a great addon pack with mainly good large scale maps

[terox 316]

Couldnt agree with you more Cannon Fodder about the CQB ctf type missions

OFP is in its twighlight years now and those who play regular OFP tend to play on a specific server where the community spirit and type of gameplay suits them.

It seems to me that you have been hopping between the totally open, badly administered teenage bolt holes.

OFP fortunately allows for such a wide range of missions and also fortunately, the teenager attitude "shiny weapon, g36 kill , counterstrike yeehaa roxxors attitude" stays at these open servers

CTI has something to blame for this.

Before that particulary mission type came on the scene, servers had good community spirits, folks queued up just to get a game on the more popular servers.

Alas CTI with its 2 to 3 hour games, killed that spirit as less and less folks were willing to put up with the wait while 3 or 4 players struggled to the bitter end

There are some excellent servers out there that have moved away from this style of mission play.

I was once an avid PVP player and still like a decent C&H, not and never a ctf with its linear game pattern.

I now play more and more coops, with a decent bunch of guys, a good community spirit and no idiotic teenagers to screw things up.

If you havent yet played a proper FDF style Attack and defend mission, then you havent really played the creme de la creme of PVP missions.

Spend time hopping on servers that arent playing these style of missions, download all the addons and sort out some mod folders, its worth it.

The theory

For every step you need to take to play on a server

the less chance you will have of finding idiots on there playing

[Mr. Cheese 0]

There are a huge number of good coop missions out there, but they're in the clans and never get released :P

Join a coop night, CiA or Zeus etc

[Jinef 2]

I love you looz!

(he won't marry me until he finishes college)

Anyway, go play at Zeus. Proper missions and the people their have brains, amazing no?

[Warrior Xâ„¢ 0]

Yup agree fully with the first post. And i to once was a PvP'er. But all of a sudden i lost interest in PvP's. So now i only play Coop's. I have played on a couple of servers. My homebase always was and still is ZEUS and we have exactly what you are looking for (well it sounds like what you are looking for imo). We have large scale coops on regular gaming nights. Every Thursday and Saturday evening. Look on ZEUS Website for servers and addons needed if you ever wanna check it out. All peeps are welcome. Just behave.  

[cain2001 0]

A man always wishes to cruise in his 18 inch cadillac downtown through the streets of LA, but once in while he makes a left turn to the highway, hits the 3rd gear and takes his baby up to 100mph in just a couple of seconds.

And its exact samething with OFP. Sure COOP is fun and all that but sometimes you really want to play a map with alot of action it in it.

The problem was, many of the oldies in here, even CiA were once the best CTF players on here. They made every CTF map into a realwar zone. Then some shit happed and CiA ends up Playing COOPs. Im sure that if people acually stayed in the CTF scene it would be alot better than what it is now when 90% of the community took of to hide behind ais.

Dont blame the newbies playing gaykessel or campteron. People took off and left it to the 10 year olds, and this is what they made of it. If you want to complain about CTF today, do it on the coop forums.

i think MP as MULTI PLAYER not singel player. Each person i shot should be another person and the gayness of ais is high. If people who acually drove a cadillac the ofp scene would be diffrent. But now they all drive volvo and are afride to get beaten on a highway race so they stick to driving NFSU8 and style their car.

The team effort in to win a world championship in fotball or hockey is one of the highest achivements a man can ever reach. Couple of tousand lines after that we have winning a OFP MP match against another team. And at the bottom theres beating 40 Ais and blowing up 4 t-72s with 10 more teammates.

But then again the only ones who understand this are the ones who walked tha road all of whom in OFP did are not playing this game anymore. Its the newbies that are left in here, and look where we ended up. Blaming everything on everyone else.

the OFP CQB scene isnt ruined, its just diffrent. I lied, and talking bs x 1000. So what you do is, ignore all these people who are trying to get you play coop and try to find people who want the same thing as you do. create maps, get a league going and after hours of hard work you will have brought back the oldschool CTF. Or just go and play coops. Its your decision. There is a 3rd way which i have taken which is to enjoy telling people they are wrong on the BiS forum

Hey Terox, i missed you.

[Cannon Fodder 0]

To be honest I don't really care where the community has been - or who's fault it is that it's in the state it is now. Recriminations aren't going to get anybody anywhere. If you want my opinion, for what it's worth, I see a game on an ageing engine, accessible and cheap, being abused by those who want to turn it into something it's not, who have no regard for the lineage of this game's development, and who have probably never touched the campaign or commanded AI, let alone their own 'clans'.

With the CTF games in the state they are at the moment, believe me it takes a lot more skill to be able to coordinate a team of 10 other players, and to listen to and follow orders precisely, than to run around corners firing wildly with a G36K. A precision strike on a numerically superior force using carefully planned tactics is infinitely more skillful than running the same 50 metres towards a flagpole looking out for window shooters and corner exploiters. One is just gut reaction, the other one requires higher brain functions. I'll let you choose which one you'd prefer to exercise. That's not to say all CTF players are morons, however. There can be lots of skill involved in a CTF map if the map allows for a wide array of tactical manouvering. A map with just the G36, with buildings to hide behind and arbitrary restricted boundaries, does not allow for anything other than either hiding in a good spot or charging headlong into the fray (a mixture between the two is the recipe for hollow success). I remember the early days, that heady July of 2001 where I played the default Everon CTF map, and where myself and some of the people I knew well-timed assaults, used armour effectively and with infantry support, hid in trees and LAW'd the opposing team's APC as it threatened our troops. This, I think, is what CTF should be about.

I remember using the NAM pack and a custom made mission to drop myself and my brother into densely packed jungle, crawling with NVA, him decimating a base with the M60 on the Huey, myself dropping him into the storm we'd just created, satchel charging and then pulling off a daring landing in a clearing with 20 angry NVA chasing him, rounds tearing through the air. No sooner were the skids climbable then he was on board, kicking the pig into life, pouring hot lead on his pursuers, now turning tail and fleeing as the tables turned. Great memories, that so many other people could have if they branched out! I played a map today called Sniper Training. It sounds fairly ominous, and is based on Desert Island, but that's where the dread ends. This was actually quite a technical map, and consists of 2 tower blocks either side of a causeway, littered with debris and burned out vehicles. It's a touch the flag mission, where one team has to merely touch the exposed flag at either end of the runway - but here's the catch - everyone's a sniper, there's a massive amount of hidey holes and it's all about drawing fire, exposing positions, moving slowly and carefully towards your objective, making that one shot count. This is still relatively restricted in terms of what Flashpoint is capable of - but it's a map that allows for some semblence of tactics, where you have to think before you pull the trigger. Even if it's just these kind of maps - this is what I'd like to see more of.

[chipper 0]

Sometimes runnin'n'gunnin with a g36 on full auto is just plain fun.

[.pablo. 0]

i suggest you take note of which servers are running those maps and see if you can contact the people running the servers to add different types of maps.

one thing i've noticed, though, is that a lot of people prefer to play those maps, meaning that if the average pub-hopper was elected admin he would choose to play one of those missions rather than something more experimental. the only way to guarantee a change, therefore, would be to convince the people running the servers to remove the cqb missions, which would be difficult (if not impossible).

another thing i've noticed, though, is that i wouldn't be terribly excited to be stuck on the same cti/coop/pvp team as some of the people to be found in those cqb servers, and would quite happily let them continue playing those missions as i wait for the next zeus/cia/private game. so, you see, its not just the missions that are necessarily causing this frustration of yours...

these are, of course, subjective observations and could easily be completely off. i'm just throwing them in for discussion.

[Zerg 0]

OFP fortunately allows for such a wide range of missions and also fortunately, the teenager attitude "shiny weapon, g36 kill , counterstrike yeehaa roxxors attitude" stays at these open servers

CTI has something to blame for this.

Before that particulary mission type came on the scene, servers had good community spirits, folks queued up just to get a game on the more popular servers.

Alas CTI with its 2 to 3 hour games, killed that spirit as less and less folks were willing to put up with the wait while 3 or 4 players struggled to the bitter end

This is the most ridicilious thing I heard in a long time.

[snipman 0]

well thats one of the benfits of OFP, theres all sorts of missions to pick .... it just seems people just like to spend 2 hr playing cTi, but don't hate em ....

[MetalG 0]

Totally agree Cannon Fodder. I'm absolutely not in those kind of team deathmatches either. Joined them once or twice, wondered why they even bothered making the maps and didn't just go play Counter Strike instead, then never joined again. I know there's people who like those maps, otherwise they wouldn't be played this frequently, I don't so I don't play them. Such missions kind of miss the 'OFP point' for me if you know what I mean. I believe OFP for me is the first game - nay - simulation in which I'm usually better off not firing my rifle when I've got contact instead of opening up the second I see movement. I really enjoy servers such as Zeus and CiA since they mainly play realistic co-ops. Since I really like CSLA2 I'm thinking of maybe setting up a co-op server for that sometime.. too bad I'm real busy lately.