Do You want PunkBuster in Armed Assault?

[d3dsh33p 0]

I can tell you that PB is garbage

we constantly find new ways around it, and even low level coders can figure it out.

waste of time imho

[Dwarden 1124]

I can tell you that PB is garbage

we constantly find new ways around it, and even low level coders can figure it out.

waste of time imho

d3d maybe it's garbage but best on market ...

or can You show me better one ? (ignore VAC2 as limitation are obvious)

plus this garbage keeps most cheating n00bs away,

private elite coded cheats will exist for any type of game

P.S. as You may noticed eysterday PB finally released theirs service based client, which removed need for certain privileges (admin acc) etc.

[MehMan 0]

Quote[/b] ]

Hmm, there's no explanation on how it works on that page. At least I found none. Mind if you explain it to me?

of course there are informatiosn pages about PB ... i guess you lazy to find them

I wasn't talking about PB, I was talking about the banlist that Rambo pointed out. I wonder what is that game ID, is it unique to a game copy or what? As it seems as a rather fast bypass.

@d3dsh33p: then why don't you do Even Balance a favour and send them a list of problems and they might fix it.

But yes, PB does support mods easly, just look at BF1942 or BF2. Forgotten Hope for BF1942 is the prime example, the mod is about 3 gigs in size.

[TrevorOfCrete 0]

How the Arma  Blanlist works. ?

Its a compiled list of banned Team killer ID's that anyone can download and use on their own server.

The list is compiled by a few ( but growing ) number of trusted servers who place  banned Teamkiller ID's into the database. The list doesnt contain bans for any other reason.

The Database contains no  names or  personal details, just the  ID numbers.

As for punkbuster, yes , has been mentioned in the past, but that would cost the commuity dearly in the sudden  drop in available  PB safe mods.

hmm, sounds like a bad idea. What if somone plays on a server and accidently crashed a chopper with lots of te-mates in. The admin might ban him out of anger, then he would be added to the list. Thats not fair, even though it prevents real TK'ers (but there likely to shove off to the next new game in time anyway)

[Dwarden 1124]

Quote[/b] ]

Hmm, there's no explanation on how it works on that page. At least I found none. Mind if you explain it to me?

of course there are informatiosn pages about PB ... i guess you lazy to find them

I wasn't talking about PB, I was talking about the banlist that Rambo pointed out. I wonder what is that game ID, is it unique to a game copy or what? As it seems as a rather fast bypass.

@d3dsh33p: then why don't you do Even Balance a favour and send them a list of problems and they might fix it.

But yes, PB does support mods easly, just look at BF1942 or BF2. Forgotten Hope for BF1942 is the prime example, the mod is about 3 gigs in size.

ah sorry my fault then ...

i agree that TK banlist is easily abusable and problematic in case of e.g. someone crashing full heli into full heli because of bug/control problem etc. ...

and btw. here info about new PB service solution http://www.evenbalance.com/index.php?page=pbsvcfaq.php

in PB banning on server got tons of levels, by clan tag, nickname, PB ID, game ID, IP etc...

[Rambo-16AAB 0]

The TK Banlist does require an admin to have common sense when banning.

Its there for those who wan t it, if you dont, dont use it. Its your own choice.

[Jack-UK 0]

In ArmA. Its never gonna happen. PB has tight controls which prevent files from being modded, it wouldnt be suitable for ArmA. PB even stops you using TS overlays etc and it will auto ban you. Also to implement it in the game would be a lot of bother.

Anti TK scripts exist and work brilliantly, u just need the mapmaker to add them.

Banning ingame needs work, we need to be able to ban ingame without having to ammend a banlist outside of the game then having to restart the server for it to take effect.

Otherwise im fine with what we've got

[d3dsh33p 0]

my e buddies would g0t really mad at me if i did such a thing

with that aside I loved this gameplay since ofp and I would hate to see this community get bogged down with more issues about shitty 3rd party software

Hint: a smart admin is the only solution

[Dwarden 1124]

In ArmA. Its never gonna happen. PB has tight controls which prevent files from being modded, it wouldnt be suitable for ArmA. PB even stops you using TS overlays etc and it will auto ban you. Also to implement it in the game would be a lot of bother.

Anti TK scripts exist and work brilliantly, u just need the mapmaker to add them.

Banning ingame needs work, we need to be able to ban ingame without having to ammend a banlist outside of the game then having to restart the server for it to take effect.

Otherwise im fine with what we've got

strange as i use certain TS overlay and other types of overlay fine in PB games

and tight control over file erm ...

i'm sure you know you can define files lists in PB server including multiple version of single file

like weapons.pbo MD5hash1 MD5hash2 etc, don't worry it can be partial MD5 hash also to avoid CPU and I/O overload

implementing it into game is less bother than developing own low level AC system from ground (let say its like developing whole new middleware so 2-5 y at min)

[Rambo-16AAB 0]

I agree that a good admin is key, but you also need goo admin tools, which arma hasnt realy got ( no RCON of any kind for one ).

Untill BIS bring the Admining side of the game up to speed, server hosts will have to make up their own minds on how best to use whatever they can find, whether its editing maps to contain punnishment scripts, shared ban lists or unfortunately locking their server and only letting a select few play.

[sirex 0]

lets not forget we're talking about a game with a handful of servers and a few hundred players, the vast majority of which are fine people.

net result is i think the ban list will work perfectly well, chances are the idiots wont be able to hide in a game with such a small community and after a while (once the common garden variety muppet leaves) youll know who the idiots are and just ban on sight.

in my opinion punkbuster is over the top, and more hassle than it's worth.

[Dwarden 1124]

Quote[/b] ]I agree that a good admin is key, but you also need goo admin tools, which arma hasnt realy got ( no RCON of any kind for one )

when You bring up RCON then take note that PB contains such feature too ...

Quote[/b] ]in my opinion punkbuster is over the top, and more hassle than it's worth.

and i still wonder what's up with that PB more hassle than good i mean in every game (except MMO like Warrock) it's OPTIONAL (aka You can disable it on both server and client)

[Dwarden 1124]

BUZZARD @ Oct. 14 2006,03:19)]I voted for no because of my experience in BF1942 -

it stopped auto-updating which it should do no matter what, and I ended up having to update it manually...

I did it twice, then had enough of it -

so I DON'T want in in ArmA. Plus, unlike other games,

I just KNOW that ArmA won't even be forgiving to dispense 0.1% of CPU power to run it, so forgettaboutit, will ya?

EvenBalance now got tool named PBSETUP to update all PB games installed on computers, as usualy for Win, Linux and Mac

(in fact it can be used also as tool to update unlimited number of machines via network shares etc.)

read more... http://www.evenbalance.com/index.php?page=pbsetup.php

---

Another (relative old i know lol) news is existence of PB remote UDP control via tool PBUCON, exists for Win, Linux and Mac

read more... http://www.evenbalance.com/index.php?page=pbucon.php

---

And latest fresh news, EvenBalance moves to use system service for PB to get rid of these admin specific rights

(thus allows game run even on non admin accounts) and better OS related compatiblity, supported are W2k, wXP and Vista

read more ... http://www.evenbalance.com/index.php?page=pbsvcfaq.php

so, is this evil PunkBuster still so evil for You? )

[churnedfortaste 0]

I think this game is asking to get raged to be honest...

[Dwarden 1124]

I think this game is asking to get raged to be honest...

what u mean? it can be easily raped already ...

via drivers (either glitches, bugged features or modded ones)

via DX SDK tools with bit effort

via tons of DX tools available on internet

etc.

and i don't even get into messing with game itself or replaced DX

sad

[-G-Shock- 0]

Autoevidently, i've seen countless games destroyed by cheaters and cheating is an issue.

Some games have a self-developed AC system, some others, the vast majority (and more than 50%) use punkbuster and there's got to be a reason don't you think?

I don't see why voting no and actually, the clients can be checked for file integrity already so PB has nothing to do with hampering modding. I voted a big Yes.

[Dallas 9]

Voted no to be part of the majority and because I never encounter any. Either play on Pwed server or with a non-retarded admin and you'll be just fine.

[Killerwatt 0]

Voted no here as well. The best "punk buster" of all is a vigillant admin.

[Dwarden 1124]

Voted no here as well. The best "punk buster" of all is a vigillant admin.

i'm gunna say that admin will be unable to discover you cheat if You not cheat obviously (insta headshots on 10km or tracking people if you see thru stuff ...

man people are so naive ...

[ombas 0]

voted no

pb is ok for stopping the casual cheater, but it can be bypassed.

also, it is Expensive.

i'd much rather see BIS put just a fraction of that money in upgrading this forum with a decent search function - one that includes showing posts instead of just loonnngggg threads as results. :-)

[Bingo 0]

Voted no.

EvenBalance also assume that everyone playing the games are tech-savvy. Games are becoming more and more difficult for non-techie players to get in to. Imagine you were enjoying your newfound game you just bought and were kicked from all servers because PB said "cvar_maxpackets = 30". That happened after COD2 went to 1.03 and some new config rules applied. Nah, it didn't do anything friendly like set them to appropriate values on your behalf. Players who did not understand what was going on would have to go to Evenbalance and find out what it's all about. For non-techies, this kind of thing is a nightmare. (There's a point here, perhaps, about non-techie's playing games, but that's for another discussion).

On another note, one of the better things to come from PB is the Auto-Master-Ban-List (Auto MBL) (Info at http://www.punksbusted.com). Essentially, hosted servers opt to stream the MBL to themselves. Your PB GUID get's banned on one, you can't connect to any of the others. PB GUID's are voted for banning in a forum, where you post the PB-shot that is suspicious, and if the general consensus is "yes", the PB GUID goes on the list.

For it to work, PB should be pretty much transparent. None if this screen-full of text you get in America's Army. If PB insists for some game that a particular config variable be within known constraints, then it must provide the user with the option to set this var on their behalf (It must ask permission, at least). This would make it easier.

But then, is it worth it? I've seen sites out there that say "PB WON'T CATCH YOU!" If this is true, what's the point?

[McTavish 0]

Absolutely, positively NO.

As a regular, honest player of Bvarious PB enabled shooters over the years I've lost count of the number of times I've been booted out of a game unceremoniously because PunkBuster decided I wasn't "compatable", forcing me to run their darn update program.

It's inconvenient, it doesn't work as a genuinely inobtrusive background process and worst of all it has prematurely, and with no warning, booted me out of proper clan matches

[Dwarden 1124]

Same song still again ?

How does cvar check differ from files integrity, custom files (faces/sounds) or in theory internal ArmA var checks ?

Seems like most of people forgot that "PB is optionable not must!" ...

and i doubt most of You will be playing games like CoD w/o PB existing at all

[shataan 1]

I don`t need it. I play co op primarilly. Mp has degraded horribley in the last 5 years. The A.I. will always play incharacter.

[-G-Shock- 0]

Sadly, i noticed 90% of those who voted no, do not know anything about pb and it's just after all as it takes months of studying and serious proficiency before being able to openly criticize it.

Consider that without PB the vast majority of games out there wouldn't even exist. The fact that some of us only play CO-OPS doesn't mean PB is a bad choice...the fact we don't need it doesn't mean others don't either.

I would like to reassure all of you that the issue with lack of transparency in the anticheating orgs and their MBL is a non-issue. First of all, the loading of their master banlists is not mandatory (so each server admin may choose which one to load and IF to load one at all) and the server admins may pick the AC org they like best *if any*.

Secondly, MBL do not mean GLOBAL bans. Cheater would only be banned on those servers using that mbl...only EBI can apply hardware bans and it's a method generally reserved to those hackers who are beyond any AC script or check.

My network bans 50 cheaters a week and i know what i'm saying. I've been talking to ebi representatives everyday for years now and i have no doubt pb would be a good choice for this game.

Expect cheats to come out for this game like mushrooms. It happens for every game and it will happen for this too.

Isn't it better at this point to release BIS personnel and commit them to more important tasks while ensuring the cheaters have bad days by giving this task to PROs like the guys at ebi ? That's the only sane question imho...and my answer is YES