Hurricane Katrina!

[denoir 0]

Quote[/b] ]I saw both interviews on TV and read both transcripts.  What's your point?  Please don't tell me that you agree with Baz that it's not what you say that matters, but how you say it.

Yes, I fully agree with him. She was utterly condescending and arrogant in her demeanor. And her stream of platitudes and trivialities were far worse than the alleged demagoguery on Anderson's part. And I have seen any evidence that it in fact was demagoguery, and not just a man having seen some rather nasty things and did not have much tolerance for politicians thanking each other over their obviously inadequate actions.

You are implying that here response was in such a way because of Anderson, but you're forgetting a very elementary thing - she's not talking to Anderson, she's talking to the TV viewers. And her response to "dead people are being eaten by rats on the streets" was "I'd like to thank senator xxx for his wonderful support".

Quote[/b] ]

I think Anderson Cooper was trying to keep up with Geraldo Rivera's emotional outburst scorecard.

That wasn't the question I asked. I asked why do you think that she is met with such loathing while Lott et al are not?

In addition you still have given an explanation to her 180 turn from praising Bush & co to threatening them with physical violence.

Quote[/b] ]So why didn't Anderson spank Trent Lott? I only posted an excerpted version of the Lott interview. With all of Lott's bullshit included it would have been 4 times longer.

Because what Lott said was far less outrageous. He was defending himself from blame, not congratulating people on what they (havn't) done and for their "support" etc There's a world of difference.

[Bernadotte 0]

You are implying that here response was in such a way because of Anderson, but you're forgetting a very elementary thing - she's not talking to Anderson, she's talking to the TV viewers.

Oh really?  It was not the TV viewer who interrupted her while she was trying to inform the TV viewer of the $10 billion emergency aid decision.

And her response to "dead people are being eaten by rats on the streets" was "I'd like to thank senator xxx for his wonderful support".

Oh really?  Perhaps you should check the tape, Mr Nixon.  

Quote[/b] ]LANDRIEU: ...Anderson, tonight, I don't know if you've heard -- maybe you all have announced it -- but Congress is going to an unprecedented session to pass a $10 billion supplemental bill tonight to keep FEMA and the Red Cross up and operating.

COOPER: Excuse me, Senator, I'm sorry for interrupting. I haven't heard that, because, for the last four days, I've been seeing dead bodies in the streets here in Mississippi. And to listen to politicians thanking each other and complimenting each other, you know, I got to tell you, there are a lot of people here who are very upset, and very angry, and very frustrated.  And when they hear politicians slap -- you know, thanking one another, it just, you know, it kind of cuts them the wrong way right now, because literally there was a body on the streets of this town yesterday being eaten by rats because this woman had been laying in the street for 48 hours. And there's not enough facilities to take her up.  Do you get the anger that is out here?

LANDRIEU: Anderson, I have the anger inside of me. Most of the homes in my family have been destroyed. Our homes have been destroyed. I understand what you're saying, and I know all of those details. And the president of the United States knows those details.

Quote[/b] ]I think Anderson Cooper was trying to keep up with Geraldo Rivera's emotional outburst scorecard.

That wasn't the question I asked. I asked why do you think that she is met with such loathing while Lott et al are not?

And that's only 10% of the answer I wrote.  Nice tactic.  You have your answer if you bother to quote it.

And besides, this was originally my question to you.  Why don't you try answering it yourself instead of just throwing it back at me?

In addition you still have given an explanation to her 180 turn from praising Bush & co to threatening them with physical violence.

Frankly, if I cared about what Mary Landrieu has said and how she's said it as much as you do then I might have given it some thought.  But to be honest, I don't really give a damn.

I'm really just waiting for an answer to what I asked you (twice) the other day:  Why is it ok to say thanks for relief that arrives late like every other politician did (including the Mayor), but if you say thanks for late relief when it's finally on the way you are a "bitch"?

Because what Lott said was far less outrageous. He was defending himself from blame, not congratulating people on what they (havn't) done and for their "support" etc There's a world of difference.

You're absolutely right, denoir.  Lott didn't thank those passing the aid budget.  He didn't express gratitude for relief that was finally mobilised.  He didn't promise that they would investigate the delays.  He didn't say any of those incredibly "outrageous" things that Landrieu and other politicians did.

Instead, he merely stated that the federal government absolutely did not fail.  He even said he was pleased with the response.  No, that's not outrageous at all... to anyone who's been sleeping under a rock for the past week.

[Baz 0]

because shes not thanking people for relief... Shes thanking them for "being there" what is good being "there" for the people of LA? When they are dying and no aid is comming to them in a timely manner. You have to realize that she's not thanking anybody except for her bosses basically. And if she wanted to thank them so much, she could do so away from national tv during an interview with a reporter. I mean picture somebody asking Saddam about the Kurds he's killed... And then he says thanks to his Baath party and his two sons and etc. I can't help you if you fail to see it my friend, but you have two inteligent people telling you what she said was uncalled for and was certaintly not the right time or occaision to say it. Its called being appropriate, and during that interview me and Denoir think that it was not appropriate for her to "thank" the "aid" comming into LA. I'm sure if Anderson did not interrupt her, she would just stand there and thank everyone from congress individually and then go on to thank her local gov individuals. If I was there I would say such a thing derogatory to her like this. "Thank you? No! F*** you!! Why did we let this happen!! We knew in advance!! This was preventable! F*** congress! and F*** you senator... Where was congress while people here are dying? They're on vacation F*** them all!!!" Something along the lines of that and maybe I would punch her too... It would be worth the jail time. BTW threatening the president of the united states (even if you are a govenor or senator) is illegal... And they could be thrown in jail for saying that they'd punch pres. Bush. I think the LA governor said she would "litterally punch the president." Would be interesting to see if she gets thrown in jail lmao.

[denoir 0]

Oh really?  Perhaps you should check the tape, Mr Nixon.

Yes, and continued:

Quote[/b] ]

Do you get the anger that is out here?

LANDRIEU: Anderson, I have the anger inside of me. Most of the homes in my family have been destroyed. Our homes have been destroyed. I understand what you're saying, and I know all of those details. And the president of the United States knows those details.

COOPER: Well, who are you angry at?

LANDRIEU: I'm not angry at anyone. I'm just expressing that it is so important for everyone in this nation to pull together, for all military assets and all assets to be brought to bare in this situation.

And I have every confidence that this country is as great and as strong as we can be do to that. And that effort is under way. COOPER: Well, I mean, there are a lot of people here who are kind of ashamed of what is happening in this country right now, what is -- ashamed of what is happening in your state, certainly.

And that's not to blame the people who are there. It's a desperate situation. But I guess, you know, who can -- I mean, no one seems to be taking responsibility.

I mean, I know you say there's a time and a place for, kind of, you know, looking back, but this seems to be the time and the place. I mean, there are people who want answers, and there are people who want someone to stand up and say, "You know what? We should have done more. Are all the assets being brought to bare?"

LANDRIEU: Anderson, Anderson...

COOPER: I mean, today, for the first time, I'm seeing National Guard troops in this town.

LANDRIEU: Anderson, I know. And I know where you are. And I know what you're seeing. Believe me, we know it. And we understand, and there will be a time to talk about all of that. Trust me.

I know what the people are suffering. The governor knows. The president knows. The military officials know. And they're trying to do the very best they can to stabilize the situation.

Senator Vitter, our congressional delegation, all of us understand what is happening. We are doing our very, very best to get the situation under control.

But I want to thank the president. He will be here tomorrow, we think. And the military is sending assets as we speak.

etc

He's talking about people dying in the streets and she's thanking other politicians.

Quote[/b] ]

Quote[/b] ]

That wasn't the question I asked. I asked why do you think that she is met with such loathing while Lott et al are not?

And that's only 10% of the answer I wrote.  Nice tactic.  You have your answer if you bother to quote it.

And besides, this was originally my question to you.  Why don't you try answering it yourself instead of just throwing it back at me?

Yeah, and here's the rest of the quote:

Quote[/b] ]

He would have referred to the same dead Mississippi woman being eaten by rats no matter who he was interviewing.  Poor Landrieu just happened to be the first federal politician he could get his hands on.  In fact, he even interrupted her announcement of Congress' $10 billion in emergency aid so that he could force in the rat story.  He made a decision that the $10 billion aid info was not as important to the viewers as his rat trauma.  As I said from the start, it was typical CNN opportunistic demogoguery designed solely to incite emotion in their weak-minded audience and not to inform.

So, you're calling me, Baz, supah, Apollo and the rest of us who have criticized her a "weak-minded" CNN audience? Is that your answer?

My answer is quite obvious, and I told you it - her bullshit was definitely the worst and offensive one I've heard during these days.

Now, given your let's say atypical response to her statements, either you are arguing for argument's sake or you lack some very elementary understanding of how human beings feel and think  - something that the rest of us have in common, which you don't. Which is it?

Quote[/b] ]I'm really just waiting for an answer to what I asked you (twice) the other day:  Why is it ok to say thanks for relief that arrives late like every other politician did (including the Mayor), but if you say thanks for late relief when it's finally on the way you are a "bitch"?

And this is why I know that you're just arguing for argument's sake. A moderately intelligent chimp would recognize the difference between her thanks speech (suitable at perhaps a wedding or an award ceremony) and expressing relief that the stuff is starting to come - and I'm pretty sure you recognize it too.

Quote[/b] ]You're absolutely right, denoir.  Lott didn't thank those passing the aid budget.  He didn't express gratitude for relief that was finally mobilised.  He didn't promise that they would investigate the delays.  He didn't say any of those incredibly "outrageous" things that Landrieu and other politicians did.

Yes, I know I'm right, and so do you. I'm not condoning or defending Lott's comments, but they are orders of magnitude less offensive than her condescending platitudes.

And what's more, she has realized that herself, hence the transformation from thanking the president to threatening to punch him in the face.

[breaker44 0]

I can't believe you guys have thrown politics into a tragedy- a natural disaster. But, it is on us soil, so of course there has to be some sort of behind-the-scenes bs. Just donate to the red cross and pray for the victims.

-BreakerOut

[Bernadotte 0]

So, you're calling me, Baz, supah, Apollo and the rest of us who have criticized her a "weak-minded" CNN audience? Is that your answer?

I didn't really have an answer, which is why I asked the question in the first place.  If you don't want my opinion then don't ask for it.  And if you really want to sing the praises of CNN's sensational jounalism then perhaps you should do so on your own and leave Baz, supah and Apollo to speak for themselves?

Now, given your let's say atypical response to her statements, either you are arguing for argument's sake or you lack some very elementary understanding of how human beings feel and think  - something that the rest of us have in common, which you don't. Which is it?

Sorry mate, but peer pressure ain't gonna make me join your mob and angrily call the senator a "bitch" for what she said - especially when so many other politicians said the same thing in the same way or much much worse.

Quote[/b] ]I'm really just waiting for an answer to what I asked you (twice) the other day:  Why is it ok to say thanks for relief that arrives late like every other politician did (including the Mayor), but if you say thanks for late relief when it's finally on the way you are a "bitch"?

And this is why I know that you're just arguing for argument's sake.

No man, I was the one praying the other day that we could stop wasting time on this topic, remember?  You're the one who dug it up again.

A moderately intelligent chimp would recognize the difference between her thanks speech (suitable at perhaps a wedding or an award ceremony) and expressing relief that the stuff is starting to come - and I'm pretty sure you recognize it too.

LOL Moderately intelligent chimp.

I never said her gratitude was expressed with sincerety.  In fact, I said the very opposite from the start.  If she'd been sincerely grateful for aid arriving so very late then perhaps I might have joined your little gang and called her a bitch too.

Quote[/b] ]You're absolutely right, denoir.  Lott didn't thank those passing the aid budget.  He didn't express gratitude for relief that was finally mobilised.  He didn't promise that they would investigate the delays.  He didn't say any of those incredibly "outrageous" things that Landrieu and other politicians did.

Yes, I know I'm right, and so do you.

If you know you are right then why delete half of what I said about Lott's remarks.  Here it is again:

You're absolutely right, denoir.  Lott didn't thank those passing the aid budget.  He didn't express gratitude for relief that was finally mobilised.  He didn't promise that they would investigate the delays.  He didn't say any of those incredibly "outrageous" things that Landrieu and other politicians did.

Instead, he merely stated that the federal government absolutely did not fail.  He even said he was pleased with the response.  No, that's not outrageous at all... to anyone who's been sleeping under a rock for the past week.

Ok, now please feel free to have the last word on this little discussion.  Afterall it's your obsession, not mine.  

[shinRaiden 0]

'Cause Trent Lott actually knows what he's talking about, and had the guts to call Cooper on the carpet for ignorant incitement and ratings-whoring.

More pictures to come shortly...

-edit-

Instant Laundry facility. The airlift standard pallets are quite a bit larger than classic wooden pallets, are they compatible with commercial forklifts? They don't look like it.

Relief aid from Germany

This is kinda cool, I found more pics like it from the tsunami. Basically the machine shop on the navy ships fit all their faucet taps to a water main, hook it up to the onboard desalinization plant, and pump out thousands of gallons of fresh drinking water.

Utah Transit Authority buses, they drove 2400 kilometers one way to New Orleans.

Another evac, CH-53 maybe? Also note the padding blankets on the walls, haven't normally seen them on military operations pictures.

This one speaks for itself.

[Supah 0]

I can't believe you guys have thrown politics into a tragedy- a natural disaster. But, it is on us soil, so of course there has to be some sort of behind-the-scenes bs. Just donate to the red cross and pray for the victims.

-BreakerOut

Unless you believe it is normal and desirable for this sort of thing to happen and then having to wait 5 days before any help what so ever arrives it would be stupid not to focus on the political process as it is so clearly the failing part of the aid response. This disaster was caused and made worse by politicians and their actions. Had the levee system been better strengthened this might all have been a lot less worse. Had there been large scale aid earlier on a lot of people needn't have died. Refusal to deal with the root causes and burrying your head in the sand by "pray and pay" is setting yourself up for the same disaster 5 years down the road.

Edit: Let me Elaborate on the levee system. The System was built to withstand a F3 hurricane. Those have become a fairly common site in the carribean meteorologically speaking. Statistics imply that as F3 hurricanes become common place F4 hurricanes become less of an exceptional occurance. We here in holland, who basically invented the dyke/levee system, have always built our dykes for the worst case scenario. The US has built their dykes for what they believe is economically wise. They look at how often an F4 hurricane occurs and then see if it is worth the money upgrading them all for that occurance or just paying for the damages. This is done in many situations in many countries. However now with the warming of the oceans, which you may or may not be living in denial of, hurricanes will only become stronger and the F3 Levee system was considered too little protection. Building and maintaining levee's to economical logics leads to these things. Economically this might be worth the cost somehow, though I doubt it, I wouldn't want to be the one to explain that to the relatives of all those that died. Funnily enough the Netherlands offered specialists to help repair, rebuild and upgrade existing dykes. No word from the white house yet if those are needed. Looking at how their air dropping big white bags by helicopter leaving gaps which water is seen flowing into the NO area on CNN I would think they could use some expertise.

[shinRaiden 0]

Ah the pitfalls of the ignominious Engrish language, you're obviously not using the American English dictionary for spelling.

You're right on the money though about the money. So much of this country is built on calculated, instead of mitigated risk assessment. That's partly why lawyers have such a good business raking in the cash. If you do a project with an unmitigated calculated risk, at some point there will be a failure, and somebody will sue. If on the other hand you attempt to take the mitigation approach, then the validation, verification, and certification not only screws you up front, but that 'safe' sticker will come back to bite if perchance it does fail.

Something you should check out either on Google Earth, or NASA WorldWind is the actual size of the levees in New Orleans. They're abysmally small, and the houses butt up on one side and the water on the other with no buffer space. Contrast that to Japan, where the average river levee is at least the height of a 3 story building above the average water flow level, and there are setback buffers on either bank the length of a soccer field or two, or sometimes three. Incidently they make great parks and greenbelts in the process.

But in the case of US riverfront cities, the cities already exist, and the general attitude if asked about moving to accomodate such levees is that the Mayor and City Council are more than welcome to shovel the average citizen's kitty litter if they want to play in the dirt at tax payer expense. Besides, Joe Q. Public's lived in his house for 40 years, and plans to die there and leave it to his kids - no thanks to the state - and the neighbors are no good anyway. Or so the sensational reporting goes.

Fortunately, the US Supreme Court has recently approved municipal ordinances abolishing the right to private property at the will and pleasure of the municipal body. In the New London v. Kelo decision, the Court ruled 5-4 that the city could seize property designtated as a 'blight zone' and resell it to private developers.

With this new legal muscle, the city can go in and exercise emminent domain over politically apathetic middle class, and economically disadvantaged minorities - who are actually the majority in New Orleans - sell the land to developers, then take the money and build politically reliable Public Housing Projects for the citizens displaced by the 'evil capitalists', and repeat the cycle without ever lifting a finger's worth of dirt onto the levees.

As an aside, there's increasing reports of deliberate neglect in more and more cities, where if they maintain prepardness below the minimum required for rational readiness, they can then declare a disaster an emergency, and pass the bill to FEMA, allowing for the localities to shift money from infrastructure to more politically reliable and expedient projects and budgets.

Both items are reprehensible and morally repugnant. Yet so many people who rush to volunteer and donate in time of need, fail to lift a finger to help in times of plenty to establish and maintain the systems needed to minimize the suffering and devastation.

If you do the math, there's no reason for New Orleans to make any effort to maintain their levees. The City Hall pay token lip service into the canal maintance workers' pensions to secure their votes, and shuffle the rest of the money elsewhere. Along comes a storm and he get's caught with his pants down, and it's "spin-spin-spin blame it on George Bush" to rally the people in ignorant rage. It's brilliant politics and theatrics, and the powers that be make off like bandits on the backs of trumped-up class warfare.

So if you had a hypothetical situation where you had a municipality that wanted to get something done, how do you propose to do it? Emminent Domain cases, even with the Kelo ruling, will be bottled up in court and cost vast amounts of lawyers fees to negotiate a small buyout, n times over.

And I haven't even mentioned the dinosaur-killing meteor called ... Environmental Regulation. I don't mean the laws designed to protect the environment, I mean the mammoth beauracracy designed to churn through so many dead trees and devour the the economic output of vast amount of financial industry for no purpose other than to regulate the masses, and in the process do great environmental disservice.

So let's dredge the Mississippi River to Baton Rouge, build a new mega-port outside New Orleans in the middle of the Delta wetlands, dredge the rest of the swamps to deepen the canals, truck in out-of-state fill to build massive levee walls, and basically have the effect of placing an open-pit coal mine in the middle of a unique ecological habitat? I always get a bit of a chuckle when the human rights people get in fights with the environmentalists, until I remember that either way, whoever wins humanity is screwed.

[Bordoy 0]

The reason why mother nature used Hurricane Katrina to destroy New Orleans.

http://www.repentamerica.com/pr_hurricanekatrina.html

Quote[/b] ]PHILADELPHIA - Just days before "Southern Decadence", an annual homosexual celebration attracting tens of thousands of people to the French Quarters section of New Orleans, Hurricane Katrina destroys the city.

"Southern Decadence" has a history of filling the French Quarters section of the city with drunken homosexuals engaging in sex acts in the public streets and bars. Last year, a local pastor sent video footage of sex acts being performed in front of police to the mayor, city council, and the media. City officials simply ignored the footage and continued to welcome and praise the weeklong celebration as being an "exciting event". However, Hurricane Katrina has put an end to the annual celebration of sin.

On the official "Southern Decadence" website (www.SouthernDecadence.com), it states that the annual event brought in "125,000 revelers" to New Orleans last year, increasing by thousands each year, and up from "over 50,000 revelers" in 1997. This year’s 34th annual "Southern Decadence" was set for Wednesday, August 31, 2005 through Monday, September 5, 2005, but due to massive flooding and the damage left by the hurricane, Louisiana Governor Kathleen Blanco has ordered everyone to evacuate the city.

The past three mayors of New Orleans, including Sidney Barthelomew, Marc H. Morial, and C. Ray Nagin, issued official proclamations welcoming visitors to "Southern Decadence". Additionally, New Orleans City Council made other proclamations recognizing the annual homosexual celebration.

"Although the loss of lives is deeply saddening, this act of God destroyed a wicked city," stated Repent America director Michael Marcavage. "From 'Girls Gone Wild' to 'Southern Decadence,' New Orleans was a city that had its doors wide open to the public celebration of sin. From the devastation may a city full of righteousness emerge," he continued.

New Orleans was also known for its Mardi Gras parties where thousands of drunken men would revel in the streets to exchange plastic jewelry for drunken women to expose their breasts and to engage in other sex acts. This annual event sparked the creation of the "Girls Gone Wild" video series. Furthermore, Louisiana had a total of ten abortion clinics with half of them operating in New Orleans, where countless numbers of children were murdered at the hands of abortionists. Additionally, New Orleans has always been known as one of the "Murder Capitals of the World" with a rate ten times the national average.

"We must help and pray for those ravaged by this disaster, but let us not forget that the citizens of New Orleans tolerated and welcomed the wickedness in their city for so long," Marcavage said. "May this act of God cause us all to think about what we tolerate in our city limits, and bring us trembling before the throne of Almighty God," Marcavage concluded.

"[God] sendeth rain on the just and on the unjust." (Matthew 5:45)

It would be funny if they weren't being serious.

[Apollo 0]

Quote[/b] ]I can't believe you guys have thrown politics into a tragedy- a natural disaster. But, it is on us soil, so of course there has to be some sort of behind-the-scenes bs. Just donate to the red cross and pray for the victims.

Media all over the world are putting the responsiilety for the extent of this disaster directly on the US or local goverment.It are only a few politicians in the USA who dare to say that this evacuation has been handled correctly. (and i wouldn't like to be in their position if after they voiced such an oppinion)

And the worldwide media isn't exactly moderate in it's allegations neither ,they are really shocked by the extent of this failure ,especially for a country like the USA with such massive means.

Then why not criticise? If it's due then it's justified IMO ,and it's more than due ,if you never would critisize a goverment that has seriously faltered in disaster control just because of the effects of their errors and the human tragedy ofthat ,then how do you expect that this situation will be prevented the next time.

Personally i find the negationism of certain politicians shocking ,i know when it comes to my country Belgium by now 2 or 3 ministers would have resigned if they had made such errors ,if not forced to do it to save the goverment.

It's like with Rumsfled on the time of the Abu-Graib scandal ,many people expected him to resign but it didn't happen ,and that was actually quite surprizing to me ,In Any European country he would have been simply forced.It seems American politicians can often get away with errors that in Europe would mean the end of youre carreer ,i think that is because there isn't enough political pressure in the US to force such a thing ,and then i'm thinking ,if you never critisize the goverment then the same error-makers will stay in their positions.

[walker 0]

Hi Shinraiden

I am afraid your suggested solution would lead to more flooding not less.

Wetlands and swamps are very important in terms of flood management. Particularly with regard to tidal suges as in this case. Draining them to make a port just makes the situation worse

The port needs to be move off shore rather. I would suggest a proper plan for the port that does not make the situation worse.

With regard to the Levees they are esentialy insurance on your house. America bought third party fire and theft when as rich nation with 100s of bilions invested in New Orleans it should have gone for fully comprehensive. Being a cheepskate on insurance allways bites you in the ass.

The fourteen billion it would have cost to set up Catagory 4 prevention now would seem a sound investment. I would suggest going the whole hog and putting in Catagory five plus Levees as insurance. The risk assesment has changed catagory 4 and 5 huricanes are now more statisicly probable.

If your a dog who sh*ts in its own basket you have only got your self to blame if you walk around covered in turds.

Global warming, and I am sorry any one who says it does not exist has got their head up their ass, means even if the US signed Kyoto tommorow we have a minimum of 10 years of the situation getting worse while the CO2 build up gets used by our plants. And that is assuming we stop rain forests from being cut down and start planting more of them.

As a whole the US needs to start thinking about better flood defenses. Texas, Mississippy, Florida and Louisiana; indeed all coastal US states need to reconsider their flood protection.

Quote[/b] ]Warming to Cause Catastrophic Rise in Sea Level?

Stefan Lovgren

for National Geographic News

Updated April 26, 2004

Most scientists agree that global warming presents the greatest threat to the environment.

There is little doubt that the Earth is heating up. In the last century the average temperature has climbed about 0.6 degrees Celsius (about 1 degree Fahrenheit) around the world.

From the melting of the ice cap on Mount Kilimanjaro, Africa's tallest peak, to the loss of coral reefs as oceans become warmer, the effects of global warming are often clear.

However, the biggest danger, many experts warn, is that global warming will cause sea levels to rise dramatically. Thermal expansion has already raised the oceans 4 to 8 inches (10 to 20 centimeters). But that's nothing compared to what would happen if, for example, Greenland's massive ice sheet were to melt.

"The consequences would be catastrophic," said Jonathan Overpeck, director of the Institute for the Study of Planet Earth at the University of Arizona in Tucson. "Even with a small sea level rise, we're going to destroy whole nations and their cultures that have existed for thousands of years." ...

http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news....ay.html

You may wish to look at the original research

http://www.geo.arizona.edu/dgesl....ise.htm

And more importantly look at the maps and animations.

Louisiana Sea Level Changes

Florida Sea Level Changes

Clearly the US could be loosing Trilions of dollars worth of cities and of industrial investment if it does not mend its ways.

Kind Regards Walker

[Apollo 0]

Will Global Warming Trigger a New Ice Age?

Quote[/b] ]Scientists have long warned that temperatures will soar and people swelter as rising levels of greenhouse gases lead to global warming. However, new evidence suggests that these conclusions were somewhat off-base. Instead of sweating, people around the world may soon be shivering as high temperatures hasten the coming of the next ice age. Currently, huge volumes of fresh water are being poured into the North Atlantic by melting glaciers, disrupting the conveyer belt of ocean currents such as the Gulf Stream, which is responsible for keeping the UK and Western Europe balmy. Recent studies indicate that the cold water outflow of the North Atlantic has dropped by 20 percent since 1950 and that northern waters have become progressively less saline. Unfortunately, these changes will not affect Europe alone. Atlantic currents are only one part of a worldwide system; disrupting them may bring dramatic climate change to the entire planet. – YaleGlobal

(read more about it on the site)

Could you immagine the disaster of a new Ice Age?<belive me ,even if i know such speculation is risky ,i'm fairly frightened by this.Immagine most of Europe and America being thrown back to Siberian climate ,it would mean the end for whole nations and society's.

[Bordoy 0]

Will Global Warming Trigger a New Ice Age?

Quote[/b] ]Scientists have long warned that temperatures will soar and people swelter as rising levels of greenhouse gases lead to global warming. However, new evidence suggests that these conclusions were somewhat off-base. Instead of sweating, people around the world may soon be shivering as high temperatures hasten the coming of the next ice age. Currently, huge volumes of fresh water are being poured into the North Atlantic by melting glaciers, disrupting the conveyer belt of ocean currents such as the Gulf Stream, which is responsible for keeping the UK and Western Europe balmy. Recent studies indicate that the cold water outflow of the North Atlantic has dropped by 20 percent since 1950 and that northern waters have become progressively less saline. Unfortunately, these changes will not affect Europe alone. Atlantic currents are only one part of a worldwide system; disrupting them may bring dramatic climate change to the entire planet. – YaleGlobal

(read more about it on the site)

Could you immagine the disaster of a new Ice Age?<belive me ,even if i know such speculation is risky ,i'm fairly frightened by this.Immagine most of Europe and America being thrown back to Siberian climate ,it would mean the end for whole nations and society's.

Yer this was highlighted in the film 'Day After Tomorrow', although the film uses un-realistic time scales, the magnitude could still be the same. And like you say, it is very worrying.

I'd like to see the number of coal power plants in the UK significantly cut, and the number of re-newable sources increased such as wind farms, water mills, solar panels etc. Maybe if prices for electrical energy were increased people would use less

Anyone got any good ideas to sort the problems out?

[Bordoy 0]

http://www.sky.com/skynews/article/0,,30000-13431086,00.html

Quote[/b] ]RESCUERS: 'LIFT YOUR TOPS'

A group of female hurricane survivors were told to show their breasts if they wanted to be rescued, a British holidaymaker has revealed.

Ged Scott watched as American rescuers turned their boat around and sped off when the the women refused.

The account was just another example of the horror stories emerging from the hurricane disaster zone.

Mr Scott, 36, of Liverpool, was with his wife and seven-year-old daughter in the Ramada Hotel when the flood waters started rising.

"At one point, there were a load of girls on the roof of the hotel saying 'Can you help us?' and the policemen said 'Show us what you've got' and made signs for them to lift their T-shirts," he told the Liverpool Evening Echo.

"When the girls refused, they said `Fine' and motored off down the road in their boat."

At one point he had to wade through filthy water to barricade the hotel doors against looters.

He said the experience made him want to vomit.

Mr Scott also slated the rescue operation, saying police were more interested in taking snapshots of the devastation rather than rescuing the victims.

"I could not have a lower opinion of the authorities, from the police officers on the street right up to George Bush," he said.

"I couldn't describe how bad the authorities were. Just little things like taking photographs of us, as we are standing on the roof waving for help, for their own little snapshot albums"

He added: "The American people saved us. I wish I could say the same for the American authorities."

Mike Brocken, of Chester, said he feared his wife Christine and 18-year-old daughter Stephanie would be raped when they went into the Louisiana Superdome.

The family were also racially abused by other refugees in the stadium.

Mr Brocken, a BBC Radio Merseyside presenter and music lecturer, told the station: "We were going to go inside the Superdome.

"I approached two members of the National Guard and they said to stay outside because they knew it was hell in there.

"One female office basically said under no circumstances take the women in there, because she knew what it was like.

"We were so frightened and we stayed alongside the National Guard for some kind of protection.

"It was at that stage that they started to take us under their wing and eventually managed to get us into the basketball stadium."

He added: "Everyone talks about the National Guard in rather derogatory ways historically, but I've got to say that, but for them, and one man in particular, I may well have lost my family."

The natural disaster shows the flaws in american society and how bad it really is. I can't believe the police in saying show us ya breasts etc, then just driving away when the girls said no.

[Apollo 0]

Quote[/b] ]The natural disaster shows the flaws in american society and how bad it really is. I can't believe the police in saying show us ya breasts etc, then just driving away when the girls said no.

That's simply horrible ,no wonder people began to shoot with rifles at rescue workers.

[Bernadotte 0]

I always get a bit of a chuckle when the human rights people get in fights with the environmentalists, until I remember that either way, whoever wins humanity is screwed.

I guess you're saying that the Soviet Union got some things right, afterall.

[mattxr 9]

The Red Cross is appealing for people overseas to contribute money to its Hurricane Katrina Appeal. But why does the world's richest nation need handouts?

[billybob2002 0]

Quote[/b] ]The natural disaster shows the flaws in american society and how bad it really is. I can't believe the police in saying show us ya breasts etc, then just driving away when the girls said no.

That's simply horrible ,no wonder people began to shoot with rifles at rescue workers.

So, a lame ass LEO gives the signal to some ladies to show your boobs and this gives justification for others to shoot at rescue workers? Thank god that Lt. Gen. Russel Honore does not read this board. That's BS...

[Bernadotte 0]

<span style='font-size:13pt;line-height:100%'>Not the R-word!!</span>

What's up with Bush and others insisting that the displaced people of NO are not to be call refugees?  Isn't that what you call people forced to flee their homes and seek refuge elsewhere?

The Whitehouse suggests that the refugee title is too demeaning for American citizens.  What an obnoxious slap in the face to the millions of refugees scattered across the globe.  When American leaders imply that the value of individuals is primarily assessed through what they possess then they ultimately just reinforce a nasty stereotypical view that the rest of the world holds of Americans being superficial and hyper-materialistic.

[Bordoy 0]

Refugees, in my eyes. usually implies that they a foriegners seeking refuge in a different country or this one.

[billybob2002 0]

<span style='font-size:13pt;line-height:100%'>Not the R-word!!</span>

What's up with Bush and others insisting that the displaced people of NO are not to be call refugees?  Isn't that what you call people forced to flee their homes and seek refuge elsewhere?

The Whitehouse suggests that the refugee title is too demeaning for American citizens.  What an obnoxious slap in the face to the millions of refugees scattered across the globe.  When American leaders imply that the value of individuals is primarily assessed through what they possess then they ultimately just reinforce a nasty stereotypical view that the rest of the world holds of Americans being superficial and hyper-materialistic.

Jesse Jackson aka "King of all Blacks" said that the term "refugee" is a racist word if used against Americans (esp. blacks). Since, Bush was told he does not care about blacks, the president is trying to gain favor with Jesse and the race pimps... Also, he wants to properly use the word.

http://www.chron.com/cs/CDA/rssstory.mpl/metropolitan/3340981

Quote[/b] ]"It's a long way from where they have lived, where they were acculturated," Jackson said.

And he touched upon one of the more sensitive issues of the past week, the use of the word "refugee" to describe people forced from home by nature's devastation. Although the Webster's definition is "a person who flees from home or country to seek refuge elsewhere," many of the displaced bristle at the word.

Jackson suggested that it implies the evacuees are subhuman or criminals.

"It is racist to call American citizens 'refugees,' " he said.

[red oct 2]

<span style='font-size:13pt;line-height:100%'>Not the R-word!!</span>

What's up with Bush and others insisting that the displaced people of NO are not to be call refugees? Isn't that what you call people forced to flee their homes and seek refuge elsewhere?

The Whitehouse suggests that the refugee title is too demeaning for American citizens. What an obnoxious slap in the face to the millions of refugees scattered across the globe. When American leaders imply that the value of individuals is primarily assessed through what they possess then they ultimately just reinforce a nasty stereotypical view that the rest of the world holds of Americans being superficial and hyper-materialistic.

that wasn't him. that was somebody who was interviewed on CNN i can't remember who it was and i can't find the interview.

[breaker44 0]

hey, whatever. I guess the discussion of botched antiterror raids and the failiure of other natural disaster warnings/responses does not merit criticism, just cause it is the US is the only damn reason you folks wanna banter over who's to blame. While you guys point the finger, people are suffering. Just the other day, a couple of guys from my unit got depolyed to Louisiana with an MP unit. Just pray for the victims-do what you can. I appreciate the gestures made by other nations, though they are not necesarry to complete cleanup, they do assist and help.

Okay, im open to incoming fire, walk it in, 300 meters, 200, 100...

-Breaker Out

[Apollo 0]

Quote[/b] ]So, a lame ass LEO gives the signal to some ladies to show your boobs and this gives justification for others to shoot at rescue workers? Thank god that Lt. Gen. Russel Honore does not read this board. That's BS...

Now calm down ,it was only a figure of speech ,afcourse not rescuing someone doesn't give another right to kill.Should have mentioned it was not ment litteraly.