JAM3

[bushlurker 45]

Hi guys!

I've been fooling around with some JAM compatible units (since your "cinemania" sounds are just so good! and I've found a small problem... LSR rangers (not sure which version offhand) offer standard and JAM versions - both come equipped with M9 sidearms - the standard lasers ones are fine, but the (s) ranger <anything> from the JAM series ones have an M9 but no ammo - nor can I arm them from a standard JAM crate....

I've had a look inside the JAM magazines config and, though I'm none too sure about most of it - I can't see an M9mag defined... I think??? (or should it be an M9SDmag?)

Is this a bug or am I just missing something obvious???

B

[Big Dawg KS 6]

Hi guys!

I've been fooling around with some JAM compatible units (since your "cinemania" sounds are just so good! and I've found a small problem... LSR rangers (not sure which version offhand) offer standard and JAM versions - both come equipped with M9 sidearms - the standard lasers ones are fine, but the (s) ranger <anything> from the JAM series ones have an M9 but no ammo - nor can I arm them from a standard JAM crate....

I've had a look inside the JAM magazines config and, though I'm none too sure about most of it - I can't see an M9mag defined... I think??? (or should it be an M9SDmag?)

Is this a bug or am I just missing something obvious???

B

Laser's M9's aren't jam compatable, they have their own mags just like all of his other hand guns.

[bushlurker 45]

thanks Kyle!...

Yeah, after a bit more pondering I'd more or less figured that...

It was a (heavily modified) version of the old LSR rangers 1.5... I've just edited its config to use Glock S as default instead...

No biggie - thanks for the quick reply though!!

Cheers...

B

[cornhelium 0]

Cheers Kyle mate for explaining that one,

CH

[twisted 127]

jam3 smoke vs ecp smoke.

both block AI vision right?

so, when using JAM3 & ECP which version does it defualt to?

just curious.

PS - one more Q. does the magazine type determine the guns handling characterisitcs? for example g3 and fn-fal use same JAM mag (i think). they seem to handle very similarly even though they are two different guns. is this because they use the same mag. any way around this?

[gatordev 215]

@twisted:

I think JAM smoke defaults to ECP smoke, as I've noticed it being different than the old smoke. However, I also installed ECP about the same time as I was testing JAM3. General Barron updated the JAM3 smoke to work better (along w/ Killswitch, I believe). I'm sure CH has the final info.

As for mags and gun handling...that's just how OFP does it. All guns that fire a 5.56/30rnd mag are going to have the same handling. Same goes for all the types. Hopefully weapon dynamics are assigned to the gun in Game2 insead of the magazine.

[cornhelium 0]

Hi Twisted,

Quote[/b] ]jam3 smoke vs ecp smoke...both block AI vision right?

Yes.

Quote[/b] ]when using JAM3 & ECP which version does it defualt to?

If you're using ECP, it will default to ECP's script. If you're not using ECP, it will use the JAM3 script (by General Barron).

Cheers,

CH

[ruff 102]

what does maxrangeprobab do again?

[Jackal326 1158]

I beleive it defines the probability that a unit with engage an enemy unit at the distance value defined by the maxrange command

[ruff 102]

thanks

been messin around with those values

but their pretty sensitive

[twisted 127]

thanks for the answers on the smoke question.

is there any regular updates to JAM3 planned? now that the core is there and working just fine.

by updates i mean adding extra JAM definition like for the p90 which handles very differently to most other guns? sorta like an extension to JAM3.

oh, and to make it a triple - when using ECP + JAM3 (a damn fine combination) which weapon sounds get preference?

PS- one of my top 5 addons of all tim efor OFP.

[cornhelium 0]

Hi Twisted,

Thanks for your kind words mate. I'll start with the easy question:

Quote[/b] ]when using ECP + JAM3 which weapon sounds get preference?

All of JAM3's sounds (including projectile hit and fly) are set in its config and will not be overridden by any other mod.

The only exceptions to this are the hits for LAW, AT4 and PG-7. These are inherited from the main config, so if you're running ECP you'll get that nice medium "crump" sound.

However, the OG-7 will always play its own sounds (randomised from JAM_boom.wss, JAM_boom_debris.wss and JAM_boom_debris2.wss), as will the PG-7VR (JAM_BigBoom.wss). This seemed like a good way of getting a variety of sounds for three general warhead sizes, and saving a bit of filespace by inheriting the middle sound.

You can work out more or less everything about JAM's sounds by looking at the Credits-Filenames.xls

Quote[/b] ]is there any regular updates to JAM3 planned? now that the core is there and working just fine.

I'm finished with addon editing, so I won't be doing anything more with JAM myself. RL needs my full attention from now on  

Stewardship of JAM transfers, with the utmost respect, back to BAS. SelectThis is most actively involved in the project, so anyone wanting to do further development must get permission from STT.

Quote[/b] ]by updates i mean adding extra JAM definition like for the p90 which handles very differently to most other guns?

I really hope that work continues on JAM. There are some big possibilities for improvement, but they need some hard-core research:

1. Realistic muzzle velocities vs. realistic bullet trajectories:

99% of JAM mags use the actual meters/sec muzzle velocity of their real-life counterparts (set in the "initspeed=" parameter). However, addonmakers such as King Homer and Jackal use much higher initspeeds, particularly for sniper rifles.

This is because OFP calculates a bullet's arc based on (a) the distance the firing weapon is zeroed for, and (b) the initspeed of the magazine. Thus, a higher initspeed will give the bullet a flatter arc, which may actually be more realistic.

...Add to this the fact that an OFP meter ain't the same as a real-life meter and you've got yourself a headache!

Some brave soul would need to sit down and ask: "How far does a real M24 bullet fall after 100m, 200m,...900m? And what initspeed does the OFP bullet need to match these measurements?" The goal would be a formula to apply to  real-life MVs, returning the right OFP initspeed for a realistic trajectory. Actually applying this to JAM would take about 10 minutes, though individual tweaks would be needed for sure.

Of course, you'd still be swapping perfectly realistic trajectories for unrealistic bullet speeds, so leading a moving target might feel different from real-life      However, I think realistic trajectories are what most would prefer.

2. Machine Gun and Submachinegun recoils.

These were not changed in JAM3. In fact, JAM's SMG recoils have always been inherited from the BIS config.

More noticeable MG recoil is what everyone wants. The problem is this: High recoil + high dispersion = machinegunners will never hit anything. Result: broken missions. Remember, a machinegunner is a major battlefield asset/threat, so AI effectiveness must be the top priority. So...a lot of time and disciplined testing needed here.

3. "aiDispersionCoefX=" and "aiDispersionCoefY=":

Could these settings be increased instead of "dispersion=" for the HD mags, so that AI get the HD effect but human players don't? This could be the perfect solution for JAM HD.

4. New mags and AT rounds, ongoing exchanges with CAVS. There will always be a tension between the need for new mags and the need to keep the package small and simple. I think JAM3 has the balance about right, with plenty of new options for addonmakers to explore. Notice for example how Jackal has made his suppressed weapons compatible with JAM supersonic and JAM subsonic ammo. As for further growth, let's see where ArmAs leaves us...

In the meantime, I'd love to see some new JAM soundpacks being released and hosted on the JAM homepage. Soundpack makers needn't limit themselves to just fire sounds - hit and fly sounds can be changed too.

Cheers,

CH

[Big Dawg KS 6]

Bug found, when trying Hoyts AN-94, I noticed that for the East 5.45 30 rd Mag with 2 round burst, the 2rd burst mode fires only 1 round, just make sure you get that fixed, its kind of awkward having 2 single modes .

[cornhelium 0]

Hi Kyle,

Quote[/b] ]when trying Hoyts AN-94, I noticed that for the East 5.45 30 rd Mag with 2 round burst, the 2rd burst mode fires only 1 round, just make sure you get that fixed, its kind of awkward having 2 single modes

This is a feature, not a bug

Due to the AN94's extremely high burst rate it's set to only fire 1 round but with damage multiplied by 2. And you should hear a "double shot" sound with each burst. IRL the AN-94 burst is intended to do more damage in a very tight grouping, rather than create a wide grouping for better chances of a hit.

So, to get around the limited burst speed in OFP, the AN-94 burst was configured like this.

Cheers mate,

CH

[Big Dawg KS 6]

Hi Kyle,

Quote[/b] ]when trying Hoyts AN-94, I noticed that for the East 5.45 30 rd Mag with 2 round burst, the 2rd burst mode fires only 1 round, just make sure you get that fixed, its kind of awkward having 2 single modes

This is a feature, not a bug

Due to the AN94's extremely high burst rate it's set to only fire 1 round but with damage multiplied by 2. And you should hear a "double shot" sound with each burst. IRL the AN-94 burst is intended to do more damage in a very tight grouping, rather than create a wide grouping for better chances of a hit.

So, to get around the limited burst speed in OFP, the AN-94 burst was configured like this.

Cheers mate,

CH

Well why didn't you use multiplier? Right now it only consumes 1 round when you fire it, you should set multiplier to 2 so that you actualy lose 2 rounds for ever round.

[cornhelium 0]

Hi Kyle,

Um...are we talking about the same game here?

Quote[/b] ]Well why didn't you use multiplier?

We did

Quote[/b] ]Right now it only consumes 1 round when you fire it, you should set multiplier to 2 so that you actualy lose 2 rounds for ever round.

No, no, no. It consumes 2 rounds per burst, exactly as you say it should.

Think you need an eye test mate  

Cheers,

CH

Edit: Mystery solved. Hoyt's AN94 doesn't use the JAM AN94 mag. Next version of his weapon pack will be JAM all the way, so the AN94 will get the proper 2-round burst.

[Big Dawg KS 6]

Ah, ok, gotcha

[>Hoyt< 0]

Recomendation:

30 round 5.56 ammo for east ex. AK-101, AK-102 and AK-108. 7.62 ammo 10 round for ex. sv-98.

[cornhelium 0]

Hi Hoyt,

Quote[/b] ]Recomendation:

30 round 5.56 ammo for east ex. AK-101, AK-102 and AK-108. 7.62 ammo 10 round for ex. sv-98.

Perfectly reasonable requests for JAM4 mate.

...I wouldn't hold your breath, though  

In the meantime, I'd explore the options we discussed on PM and in your thread.

Cheers,

CH

[Big Dawg KS 6]

I know this would probably be a drastic change, but, It would be alot more convenient to use a high despersion script (called via fired EH) than seperate HD magazines. The script would be simple, just add/subract random numbers to the velocity of the round. The advantages of this would be that an HD property can be added to a unit rather than a magazine, and will eliminate the problem with players picking up HD mags from dead AI, and also you can save a lot of config space. But I can understand the reasons for not doing it too, although one must consider weather or not it is worth it to have it like that or not.

[Jackal326 1158]

I'd sooner run a script to replace HD mags with non-HD (using a script from OFPEC.com), than use a script/whatever to alter the dispersion of existing rounds. The whole lag issue is a factor, as the replacement is only called when the unit is killed, whereas the EH option would be called each time the weapon is fired, possibly causing lag in large fire-fights. Also, reming the HD magazines, would seriously screw-up existing missions that use them.

[vektorboson 8]

Another possibility is to use a custom ConfigMovesMC fpr HD units and change aimPrecision to a larger value, so they have the stronger wobble effect. This would eliminate the whole HD mags issue for players who don't want HD mags.

[twisted 127]

woah, thanks for the big reply cornhelium.

JAM3 occupies a very special place on my OFP and in the ofp community in general.

you and your guys took it very far and made it very useable. and now BAS (AFAIK the originators) are back on board controlling it.

cool.

i like HD mags and the use of a script to turn to to normal mags when player picks em up.

that said the essence of JAM3+ would be ways to update it regularly - like hoyt suggested. perhaps through small pathces/ expansions that only contain the relevant weapon info and sounds.

of course there should always be the main pack.

the fact that BAS is getting involved with JAM again is a very intersting thing. they would have a working knowledge of ArmAssault and the game 3. hmmm.

[Big Dawg KS 6]

I'd sooner run a script to replace HD mags with non-HD (using a script from OFPEC.com), than use a script/whatever to alter the dispersion of existing rounds. The whole lag issue is a factor, as the replacement is only called when the unit is killed, whereas the EH option would be called each time the weapon is fired, possibly causing lag in large fire-fights. Also, reming the HD magazines, would seriously screw-up existing missions that use them.

Jackal, JAM units allready run fired eventhandlers, tagging an HD script on to them wouldn't cause any more lag than allready exists. Second, the problem with replacing HD mags with normal mags means you could get that infinate ammo thing. Third, it makes more sense to make the unit less accurate, not the actual weapon he is firing, so using an HD script is really more practical. Not only that, but a dispersion coeficient variable could be added so that you can change the amount dispersion. And I agree, removing the HD mags that are allready there would cause a lot of problems, but how about just not using them?

Just making a suggestion, you can probably even offer 2 versions, 1 that has units with HD mags, and 1 that has units with scripted HD.

I mean the script would be simple, and infact, if the mission editor knew what they were doing, they could make their own, but including one in the addon would make it easier for a lot of people (not me, I can easily make this script).

[SelectThis 0]

It's not so much the EH that uses system resources, it's the scripts that the EH runs. Having to run a script for each bullet that is fired would create slowdowns.

HD via dispersion settings was always a compromise solution, hopefully BIS will change the way things work in the future games - eg have two dispersion settings, one for the weapon and one based on the skill of the unit. Might be a better idea to focus discussion in those forums to get the system fixed

STT