JAM3

[KeyCat 131]

-More effective smoke grenades.

First of all I want to say THANKS for the update and kudos to BAS for approving an update!

Second, could some of you involved in JAM3 give some more details about the improved smoke grenades? What exactly was improved? Was the AI LOS object increased in size? And if, by how much?

/Christer (a.k.a KeyCat)

[TermiPete 0]

Great stuff!

Well done Cornhelium!

TP

[DracoPaladore 0]

I must say, I like playing JAM now. JAM2 I hated, only because I didn't like the sounds. But now, I approve 100%.

[Katar 0]

Awesome. Downloading now.

[TDogg 0]

Great work cornhelium.

Thanks

[Pappy Boyington 0]

-More effective smoke grenades.

First of all I want to say THANKS for the update and kudos to BAS for approving an update!

/Christer (a.k.a KeyCat)

hate to bust your bubble but BAS gave up on JAM and OFP a LONG time ago.

it took poking, prodding, death threats, and tourture just to get them to give the "ok" for someone else to pick up the project

if theres ever an update would you mind upping the hit power of the AT4? considering ORCS new tanks the AT4 is a joke. for Y2K3 i upped the hit power to 750. with that i can killed a T80 in 2 or 3 hits.

with its current setting of 450 it takes me 8 shots to disable the tank.

INQ/King Homer and ORCS have set the new standard in armor... come to think of it.. they are the only 2 mods that are still releasing standalone armored vehicles. but thats not the point. the fact is that its those tanks we will be sitting on the battlefeild the most and right now the AT4 is a joke agasint them.

[Ironsight 1]

Thanks for all the work you have putten into JAM3 cornhelium

Quote[/b] ]if theres ever an update would you mind upping the hit power of the AT4? considering ORCS new tanks the AT4 is a joke. for Y2K3 i upped the hit power to 750. with that i can killed a T80 in 2 or 3 hits.

with its current setting of 450 it takes me 8 shots to disable the tank.

INQ/King Homer and ORCS have set the new standard in armor... come to think of it.. they are the only 2 mods that are still releasing standalone armored vehicles. but thats not the point. the fact is that its those tanks we will be sitting on the battlefeild the most and right now the AT4 is a joke agasint them.

Armor value's are based of the CAVS project. From what I have seen CAVS has the most realistic value's

[klavan 0]

Just a big applause to cornhelium!

I loved JAM2 and I'm sure I will love JAM3.

Great work and many thanks!

Klavan

[Pappy Boyington 0]

Armor value's are based of the CAVS project. From what I have seen CAVS has the most realistic value's  

i said this before and ill say it again.

CAVS thingy is a cute idea but its about 3 years too late. we have close to 2000 tank addons already released. i dont think anyone is gonna re-edit all those tanks to match this value.

and King Homers M1A2 has kinda set the standard for tanks. like i said ORCS tanks are (weither they ment to or not) based on the armor values of that abrams. now the orcs tanks and the KH/INQ tanks can have a pretty fair fight on the battle feild. and since they are the most accurate, best looking, and most popualr tanks.. we are gonna see them used in ALOT of missions.. and since JAM is used in alot of missions too i think we should base it off the most popualr tanks to keep it fair.

that and i cant get the damn game to regonize the AT4 as a replacment model for the law due to the evil .modelspecial. error from hell and arnt able to create my custom class for this weapon either due to that same bug and am forced to use the JAM values and since i use the orcs tanks the west "law" soldier doesnt stand a snowballs chance in hell againt a T72 let alone a T80. . . however the RPG16 is a formidable foe for the M1A2 so now the east have the advantage there but i thnk im going off topic now.. sorry.

[theavonlady 2]

-More effective smoke grenades.

First of all I want to say THANKS for the update and kudos to BAS for approving an update!

/Christer (a.k.a KeyCat)

hate to bust your bubble but BAS gave up on JAM and OFP a LONG time ago.

it took poking, prodding, death threats, and tourture just to get them to give the "ok" for someone else to pick up the project  

As someone who was involved with getting JAM3 moved from concept to reality from day 1, I would like to thank BAS for their approval to use their original work and for their cooperation in making JAM3 a reality.

Whether BAS permits someone else to use their works or not is their perogative and they were very reasonable about it.

Of course, none of this would have been possible without Cornhelium's taking up the development baton and carrying it all the way through.

And a thanks to all the beta testers, who did their best to assure that a quality addon is what's dropped in the hands of the OFP player community.

Max Res to all!

[SelectThis 0]

Nice work! And i mean "work"...I fully understand the effort that went into this.

Good job all.

STT

[cornhelium 0]

Thanks all for the words of support.

Quote[/b] ]could some of you involved in JAM3 give some more details about the improved smoke grenades? What exactly was improved? Was the AI LOS object increased in size? And if, by how much?

Hi Keycat. General Barron supplied a new script that has these differences:

1. Detects the direction of the wind (by calling a new script windcheck.sqs).

2. Places 2 smokeblock objects very accurately inside the trail of smoke.

3. Leaves the BIS smokeshell rather than "catching" it and replacing it with the JAM one. We were of the opinion that the BIS smoke looks a tiny bit better.

@Pappy,

Fair point mate, but at the end of the day we had to either commit 100% to CAVS compatibility or not commit at all. There was an ofp.info poll on whether or not standardisation projects were a good thing and the verdict was overwhelmingly "yes".

The CAVS guys are the real deal. They have done a lot of research on armour, penetration and damage values, and given that JAM is all about standardisation I think it would have been crazy not to get on board. Of course, I envision future JAM releases having to be updated as CAVS values evolve, but the main thing was just to get in synch as a starting point.

Cheers,

CH

Ps. Talking of scripts, there are some great scripts available from OFPEC that replace a dead AI's HD mags with standard versions, so human players can rearm with accurate ammo    When OFPEC is back up I'll post some links.

[Daniel 0]

I just hope King Homer and ORCs read this or consider CAVs, they do have the some of the best tanks IMO and I'm looking forward to the next Y2K3...

[GAZ NZ 0]

Does SJBs weapon pack work with these?

[.kju 3244]

first of all thanks cornhelium and everyone else involved for the effort !

well i do know some of the background for this, but maybe you can sum it up for everyone else - i am certain this would help a lot - cheers !

~ why jam ?

~ how does it work - like what needs to be done by others ?

~ well aces and cavs still are working in progress - what to do in between best ?

~ on what is this based on - pure realism ?

~ what about gameplay ?

~ what needs to be / should be used by addon makers to make it jam3 compatible or to ask the other way round - (roughly) what are the possibilites / choices an addon maker can still do about his weapon & ammo config wise ?

thanks a lot !

[gatordev 219]

Does SJBs weapon pack work with these?

According to Jackal, no. When I asked him if he would consider making his weapons compatible, he said he did not want to, so you can only use his mags. Perhaps now that the sounds and changes are public, he'll reconsider, but for now it's not meant to be.

[king homer 1]

Daniel @ Aug. 26 2005,12:35)]I just hope King Homer and ORCs read this or consider CAVs, they do have the some of the best tanks IMO and I'm looking forward to the next Y2K3...

The M1A2 will be updated (in near future) with Sigma values to fit the RHS series tanks and maybe I'll add a CAVS compatible version.

[Przezdzieblo 0]

Pappy Boyington, note that ORCS ERA-equipped tanks (T72B w/ERA, T80, T90) have some scripts that make even much overpowered BIS LAW/RPG-7 inefective against it.

Just simple test. Put ORCS T72B (ERA) against 3 LAW soldiers - after 9 hits tank could be still functional, without mobility/gun kill. OTOH even strenghtened INQ SEP (using modified config) would be KOed by 3-4 BIS RPG hits (mobility or gun kill, crew bailed out). In tank vs tank fire duel there is more balance. But still there is no "global" compability with ORCS/INQ tanks.

Standarization of ammo might be chance for such bigger standarization. Maybe it will have some influence and todays uberpanzers would be a little less uber. Swapping values to go ahead of popular tank addons might be one more dead end. Let us wait and see CAVS in action in JAM3 and modified EECP (with both CAVSed ammo and tanks).

[KeyCat 131]

hate to bust your bubble but BAS gave up on JAM and OFP a LONG time ago.

it took poking, prodding, death threats, and tourture just to get them to give the "ok" for someone else to pick up the project  

What bubble??

I just gave BAS kudos for letting the JAM3 people pick up the ball and provide us all with an updated JAM-pack and I think thats a fair thing to do since they did the original JAM1 and JAM2.

I don't know all the "politicals" going on behind the scenes but I do appreciate all the work done by the community.

Quote[/b] ]

General Barron supplied a new script that has these differences:

1. Detects the direction of the wind (by calling a new script windcheck.sqs).

2. Places 2 smokeblock objects very accurately inside the trail of smoke.

3. Leaves the BIS smokeshell rather than "catching" it and replacing it with the JAM one. We were of the opinion that the BIS smoke looks a tiny bit better.

@cornhelium

Thanks for the info. Haven't had the time to try it yet but will.

/Christer (a.k.a KeyCat)

[cornhelium 0]

Hi Q,

Quote[/b] ]~ why jam ?

* JAM-compliant weapons by different addonmakers will have the same accuracy, damage etc settings, making MP fairer.

For instance, two snipers hunting each other with a BAS SR25 and a Laser/JAM SR25 will have equally accurate and powerful weapons. Only the zeroing on the sights could be different.

* Magazines can be shared between JAM-compliant weapons. Eg. A PUKF SA80 guy could take a magazine from a Laser/JAM M4, or a PUKF FN-MAG could be reloaded with ammo from a BAS M240. This feature has its limits, but overall it means more ammo to fire, which is a good thing.

* All JAM rifle and machine gun mags have a "High-Dispersion" equivalent. When AI are equipped with these mags, it makes for longer-lasting firefights as they are less accurate. Note: OFPEC has some scripts that will change a dead AI's High-Dispersion mags so human players can rearm with standard mags.

* When JAM values are changed due to research or gameplay issues, the changes will apply across the board to all addons that use it.

* Addonmakers can save time and filespace by simply using JAM mags - the values and sounds are ready-made for them. They can also use one of the many reload sounds to save a bit more filespace.

* By externalising fire, reload, bullet fly and bullet hit sounds to JAM_Sounds.pbo, JAM allows the end-user to choose whatever sounds they want, and hear things their own way

Quote[/b] ]~ how does it work - like what needs to be done by others ?

All an addonmaker really has to do is define their weapon so it uses the relevant JAM magazine. This is fully covered in the ReadMe.

Quote[/b] ]~ well aces and cavs still are working in progress - what to do in between best ?

* ACES = standardisation of values for air-launched weapons

* CAVS = standardisation of values for armour strength and  tank/ground/man launched projectile power (including RPG, AT4 etc.)

* JAM = set of standard values for commonly-used hand-held weapons.

ACES, CAVS and JAM are co-operating wherever things overlap. For example, an ACES Hellfire missile will be calibrated against CAVS armour values, as is a JAM PG7VR.

Quote[/b] ]~ on what is this based on - pure realism ?...what about gameplay ?

It's based on the best balance of realism and gameplay that we could achieve with our limited manpower, time and expertise. Remember that BAS did a huge amount of research and balancing work with JAM1 & 2, so our approach has generally been "if it ain't broke, don't fix it".

However, there were some long-standing issues that the community had with JAM2, like the accuracy of suppressed assault rifles, the power of RPG rounds, recoils etc., and those are the areas we prioritised in the development of JAM3.

Quote[/b] ]~ what needs to be / should be used by addon makers to make it jam3 compatible or to ask the other way round - (roughly) what are the possibilites / choices an addon maker can still do about his weapon & ammo config wise ?

A weapon could either be:

* Compatible only with JAM mags (like the PUKF's rifles)

* Using its own magazines but also compatible with JAM mags (like Laser's US weapons)

* Available to fire only its own magazine and also available to fire only JAM magazines (like the Marine Assault Pack weapons)

* Lastly, if an addonmaker really, really hated the JAM values for accuracy, power etc, but wanted to use the JAM sounds, there's no reason why they couldn't define all of their own values and just link to JAM_Sounds.pbo for the firing and reload sounds. However, this might be unpopular in MP, as it would be hard to tell whether or not the session was fully based on JAM values.

Cheers mate,  

CH

[Gollum1 0]

Thanks for this, I hated the old sounds and recoil. The new "laser gun" sound for the M14 in the community sound pack is a bit lol, though.

[DracoPaladore 0]

Do I need to replace both the rifle and the magazine? Say, if I wanted to replace SEBNAMPACK for JAM stuff, do I replace the rifle and the magazine or just the latter?

Also, under what name would the Carl Gustav be? M136?

[mark82101 0]

Great work!

Can we replace ecp sounds in @ECP\Addons folder with JAM3 sounds?!?! Help me!!!

[cornhelium 0]

Hi Gollum 1

Quote[/b] ]The new "laser gun" sound for the M14 in the community sound pack is a bit lol, though.

LOL I worked for 2 weeks on that sound mate. I'm looking forward to your HyperRealism soundpack for JAM 

Cheers,

CH

[hellfish6 7]

Excellent work. Standardization rules.