Falcon 4: Allied Force

[hellfish6 7]

I've decided not to buy this game at least until their mod policy is clarified. Right now, most of the F4 community is under the impression that the devs have said that they'll aggressively defend their IP - meaning that they'll go after any mod groups (for F4AF or just old F4).

Screw that - I only bought F4 for one reason:The Angolan Theater.

The modders are gonna charge $50 for their mod and I'm more than happy to send them the money for it. They're the people that kept F4 alive all these years.

[bn880 5]

That's right, so far it looks like modding will only be allowed directly through LP, with a likely circumstance of denials and costs to the users... hmm. LP is acting like a dictator on several issues, trying to completely shut down the modding community it seems, but we have to wait to tell for sure.

[Supah 0]

Lets hope "OFP2" has VERY good Avionics and flight modeling then

[grayghost 0]

F4:AF is a great game but it has some issues ...

The graphics suck, and we all know this, but it's pretty sad when you can't tell a bridge apart from an apartment building in your FLIP /TGP

CAS sucks. LOMAC blows F4:AF out of the water for CAS, period (but! LOMAC has stuff missing too, liek ground units making a proper reaction, not that the F4 ones do -too- well, and there's no flak of 100 guys with ak's trying to shoot you in the eye)

Dogfights ... LOMAC blows Falcon away too. Better FMs, better graphics, and that's that.

BVR is fairly comparable - F4:AF has better and iMHO more realistic missile guidance but worse countermeasure modelling (which also affects dogfights)

LOMAC seems ot have a better radar model (note: I didn't say avionics for the radar)

F4:AF has better missile physics (although actually LOMAC and F4:AF agree on missile ranges, believe it or not - and I mean in game shooting ranges, not listed ranges in the so called 'encyclopedias' and tactical references)

Of course, F4:AF blows eevryting away with its campaign system and environment of massive air campaigns.

LOMAC still kicks ass in MP for the most part.

All in all, both are pretty good games, and each one has its strengths and weaknesses - I prefer Falcon for SP, LOMAC for MP, personally.

For a good dogfight, there's nothign like LOMAC - F4's FM's simply do -not- compare.

F4 Sp42 and FF/Cobra had alleviated the FM issue for th emost part, however F4:AF is sitll old falcon code, so fuel consumption and FM's are both unrealistic (the FM's tolerable, the fuel consumption modelling is just plain simple, period)

I fly both quite regularely and like I said, both have their strengths ... anyone calling one a 'better sim' over the other needs to recheck their rethoric, because both have some pretty bad flaws, too

[bn880 5]

Well, for me F4 is much better than LOMAC, if I want a dogfight, a flight model, and graphics, I've got Il2 Pacfific Fighters, not to mention MP and stability from day-1, unlike LOMAC's "issues" with blue outs or whatever those were.

So for me, additionally modern air combat is really lame (well it is compared to WW2...), but it's the campaigns and intricate action and communication that makes it worth while. So... yeah LOMAC... yet another un-interesting pretty title for BN. MP Campaign anyone?...

EDIT: LOMAC is like a rally car without a turbocharger... what's the point..

[crashdome 1]

I bought LOMAC and I enjoyed it for the first week or so... nothing wrong with it, but I just could not get past the fact that the avionic systems seem so arcadey compared to any real sim (note I did not say F4 specifically! ). I could have lived without clickable cockpits in a sim that is such a good 'feel' to fly in and so nice to look at, but targeting/radar,  and tactical communications in LOMAC is anything but modern. It's actually closer to something about 20-30 years ago. Other than that, I loved that 'feel' you got when cruising low in an A-10 or an SU-27. The difference between Flanker series and LOMAC is what the difference in F4 and F4:AF should have been.

LOMAC is a good dogfighting sim, but my strategic needs overwhelm my other needs quite often when it comes to entertainment of this nature. I'm not a deathmatcher or a mission-next-mission kinda guy.. I like the continuity of a good campaign..most especially when it comes to MP (as if it's not evident by the OFP work I've done... )

*EDIT*bn880, you jkust beat my post... "rally car w/o a turbocharger.." LOL .. reminds me of this kid down the street from me with a Dodge Neon... I'd explain further, but needless to say I don't want to embarrass him anymore than he already has...

I'm always up for a campaign. I did shut my server down mostly due to OFP beta testing lately. I'll throw it back up though. Name the campaign and difficulty and I'll set it up ASAP

[grayghost 0]

No, LOMAC is pretty much like a rally car with a turbocharger and a pretty chick in it.

F4:AF is more like the accountant housewife.

I think that's much more accurate

Like I said, to each his own - I prefer MP, and to be honest the campaign and coops in F4:AF don't do anything for me, it's pretty meaningless without player opposition for me, basically.

And I'm not into WWII sims so ...

While the mechanization of the aivionics in LOMAC is lacking, I think 'arcady' is rather undeserving (arcady is F4's AI flight model, rather, and LOMAC's AI in general)

As I said, both have some deep flaws, and who enjoys what is really based no personnal preference in the end ...

I've seen people accuse LOMAC players of playing a 'game' compared to their 'sim' (which is a hoot when they fail to realize that the graphics are part of the simualted environemtn too,a s is AAA not shooting through mountains ... ahem)

I've seen people accude F4 players of being snobby elitists who can't compete and just revel in how many buttons they get to push and go play silly coops.

Point is, it's all silly; LOMAC lacks more than F4 does in many ways, but LOMAC also happens to simulate a bunch of things far better than F4 does.

So, this whole drawn out post has been pretty much an admission that we've reached consensus

FYI, people have been asking ED to improve a number of things. While sadly some things will not be done within LOMAC, it's successor has been slated for the 'hardcore' crowd, featuring an F-16CJ, Mig-29K and/or SMT/2, plus Mi-28 and Ah-64.

All the existing LOMAC planes will be backported with AFM, and everything will be equipped with 3D clickable pits with vull TIR vector support.

THe biggest thing will be the overhaul of the AI so that a much better mission editor can be made, at least in the spitirs of JF-18 and aiming for F4's DC.

Of course, we've heard all this before, but apparently they're already wrking on all this ... so good luck to them.

[bn880 5]

Heh, are you driving turbocharged now? There are dumb kids everywhere mind you.

Nah I was not asking for a campaign right now, sorry for my bad communication skills, I was just rubbing it in as we pretty much know the value of those MP campaigns, and a certain rally car W/O a supercharger doesn't have them.

[grayghost 0]

The LOMAC community got aroudn the campaign thing the painful way (do'em by hand...with admins and so on...strictly online) and it's not going particularely great, indeed.

Unfortunately flying F4 for me takes away from the campaign itself particularely when it comes to CAS/BAI - I simply don't fly those missions ... the graphics kill it.

Strikes and OCA strikes ar epretty cool thought ... racing on the deck through a cloud of AA can't be anything -but- cool.

[crashdome 1]

Heh, are you driving turbocharged now?  There are dumb kids everywhere mind you.

Now? Been driving turbos on/off for the past 10 years!

Nothing like the sound of that whine of the turbo spooling up!

I just gotta defeat the terrible turbo-lag I've been getting lately. Needs to get into a garage and get stripped down and rebuilt.

Anyways back on topic....

I suggest not getting into any banter about LOMAC and F4... it's just not worth it for any of us. I think we can all agree that we enjoy the aspects we enjoy... there's a nut for every squirrel...

Which brings me back to the AF campaign server...

I'm going to leave it down for awhile then. I need to get these SOW missions tested.

[bn880 5]

Yes you're absolutely right. I'd be playing on your AF server already, however as you probably know, AF is just making its way down into the EU now... and that's where most players I can expect to coop with will be.

Actually rather sucks as I'll be a little busy in the next month, but what can you do, timing is never perfect.

[Blake 0]

I'd love to fly the campaign online like in original falcon 4.0, anybody up for multiplayer? Maybe we could set up a '1985 forum online campaign' on this thread or sort of...