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monty67t

Virtual Combat Convoy Training

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Today I got to use the new VCCT. There are only four in the entire US Army and it has it's bugs. However, it was outstanding. For more information, check the following link:

VCCT INFO

Monty

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What's the humvee made of, plywood? And that driver wouldn't be shooting like that in real life unless he want to shoot off the side mirror. biggrin_o.gif

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Sounds really cool, tell us some more about what the simulator was like biggrin_o.gif

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Well, the vehicle has been updated from that version shown and those are not Army personnel in those pics. The vehicle was made of fiberglass I believe. The inside was pretty close to exact with a few missing items. The speedometer worked, but the stearing was a little touchy. The weapons, 4 M4s and an M240 on top, are all controlled through a cable that attaches to the bottom. They have recoil and sound. You can see your rounds on the screen and they were pretty accurate. It was really good training. Something a unit like mine (aviation) doesn't do enough in my opinion. We are under so much pressure to keep every aircraft we have mission capable, that we sometimes miss out on good soldiering skills.

Monty

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looks a lot like what AA guys had in front of E3 convention this year. They set up a simple mission using America's Army, and also had gas powered Minimi on top, and one M4 on the side. you had 3 screens and had to shoot at the enemy.

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you aren't serious about calling this "cool" are you? rock.gif

Video 1

Video 2

UK version

CCTT Homepage

VCCT Homepage

Pic 1

Very portable...

lm-vcct.jpg

I'm sorry to expose you to all the horrors, but you really need to take a look at those videos, and have a bucket handy. OFP destructs look better than the 'infantry', and whatever it is that they call animations. It's worse than sad, as a US taxpayer, I'm outraged, but I'll keep quiet for the moment because I'm *cough*cough* a competitor. wink_o.gif

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What's the humvee made of, plywood? And that driver wouldn't be shooting like that in real life unless he want to shoot off the side mirror. biggrin_o.gif

Many components on the Humvee are magnesium - wonderful, eh?

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@shinRaiden

First of all, it's not a video game, it's a simulator. Second, have you tried it? Have you ever heard the phrase "don't knock it until you try it"? I agree that the graphics were horrible. However, it still served it's purpose and was tremendous training. This project is still in it's infant years and I believe it will just keep getting better and better.

Monty

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Anyway, I don´t see it as a usefull tool to simulate real convoi and weapon tacs. Better have some roads on a training ground prepared with moving targets, civil/hostile mixed scenarios and real moving vehicles. You will find out that the bumpiness of roads and the travelling speed of a convoi in heat almost makes it impossible to sort such situations without large numbers of accidently killed bystanders.

Simulations do have their part in military training, but some simulations just miss their goals by miles and give a wrong impression to the soldiers who train with them. Therefore I don´t appreciate simulations that do not simulate the reality.

Besides that it´s still cheaper to have a training ground for such actions, and of course much more real.

Edit: You can have a hell lot of real training runs for 9.6 million dollars...

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I agree. M.I.L.E.S. gear, some civy actors, a good training area (NTC), real vehicles, blank rounds, arty simulators, and flashbang grenades go along way to not only realistically simulating a convoy attack but also simulating such things as extracting wounded and dead under fire during a convoy ambush. You simply can not simulate that in a simulator like the one they designed. I'm not saying its useless. It does have its purpose. For example you can not simulate an RPG attack in real life training unless you got real creative and did stuff like creating remote controlled flashbang grenades on the sides of vehicles to simulate when they're hit by RPG's with the remote control being mounted on a mock RPG carried by a OPFOR guy acting as an Iraqi or Afghani insurgent.

But the simulator can have things like air support which gets really expensive in real life. I've only done one training mission where we had real life air support in the form of National Guard Cobra gunships assisting in Convoy security.

Also for realistic training you'd have to have one hell of a sound system and a temperature controlled room to simulate fighting in stiffling heat.

Also they do sell paintball grenades to simulate hand grenades.

http://www.alternativepaintball.com/grenades.htm

Simulating M203 and Mk19 fire however would be very difficult in real life training. Thats another area where the computer sim would be better.

So overall I don't see the electronic simulation as a substitute for real life convoy training. However if they concentrate on simulating the stuff that real life training can't simulate very well, then I think it could be a very useful tool.

Heck, even OFP can be made to simulate convoy missions in a useful manner. However I don't think anyone has made any such convoy missions with IED's and VBE's (Vehicle Born Explosives) partly because there has yet to be a single good Iraq map released (Tonal is good for simulating Iraq but very laggy) and because most mission makers do not do a good job at realism even if they can make very pretty movie cutscenes.

But if anyone makes a good Iraq map for sure I would make some good convoy missions like where you have to defend your convoy against an IED/ RPG/small arms ambush.

I'm already working on such a mission for my mod using Israeli units and our Arab insurgents. Our Arab insurgent/civilian pack should be out extremely soon by the way. It will include a VBE van as well and come with a demo mission (which is already done).

Chris G.

aka-Miles Teg<GD>

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CNN did a thing on a training range in Kuwait that troops train on before heading to Iraq.

Quote[/b] ]Live fire

From Wolf Blitzer

CNN

http://www.cnn.com/2005/US/03/30/live.fire/index.html#

WASHINGTON (CNN) -- For U.S. troops heading to Iraq the drive from Kuwait is dangerous.

Convoys constantly come under attack from insurgents -- whether from those dreaded improvised explosive devices hidden along the roads, snipers or rocket-propelled grenades.

Live fire training exercises conducted in the northern Kuwaiti desert provide an opportunity for young U.S. troops about to travel with U.S. military convoys into Iraq for the first time. The training exercises prepare them for what will be a very dangerous mission.

And with bullets flying, the training exercises at the Udairi Range can themselves be quite dangerous.

"Things don't always go well during this, and that's the purpose of the after action report -- to talk about what was the plan, how did you prepare and what happened during execution and things that didn't go well during execution," says U.S. Army Brig. Gen. Mike Milano.

The best way to prepare the troops for the dangerous drive through Iraq is to simulate what they might encounter.

To do that, the troops drive through a nearly 10 mile course during which they come under simulated hostile fire.

"The whole principle here is if there is a threat, return fire, and get out of the area as quickly as possible," Milano says.

It's a three-day program.

While accompanying troops through the course in the front seat of an armored Humvee, our driver explains that one vehicle has come under attack and has been disabled.

"It's going to be a hasty evacuation -- get them in a vehicle and get them out of the kill zone. After that, we will recover the vehicle, throw a tow strap on there, get it out of the kill zone while someone is suppressing the enemy and get out of there," says U.S. Army Maj. Matt Fath.

The military has built an overpass to show drivers how to evade grenades that could be dropped into their vehicles. The key is to swerve rapidly -- either to the left or right -- just before going underneath. Even though the insurgents already know this maneuver, it makes it tougher to hit the target.

At the same range, U.S. troops practice firing at an incoming vehicle trying to maneuver through barricades at the entrance to a camp.

The objective is to avoid another Beirut -- a reference to what happened in 1983 when a suicide truck driver simply approached the U.S. Marine barracks in Lebanon, killing 241 U.S. service personnel.

On this day, military trainers assess how the trainees did.

"There was a big lag between the time that things started moving and your first round," one trainer says. "You've got to remember: that vehicle is coming at you and is trying to get through your checkpoint. You've got to stop him."

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Heck, even OFP can be made to simulate convoy missions in a useful manner.   However I don't think anyone has made any such convoy missions with IED's and VBE's (Vehicle Born Explosives) partly because there has yet to be a single good Iraq map released (Tonal is good for simulating Iraq but very laggy) and because most mission makers do not do a good job at realism even if they can make very pretty movie cutscenes.

But if anyone makes a good Iraq map for sure I would make some good convoy missions like where you have to defend your convoy against an IED/ RPG/small arms ambush.  

I'm already working on such a mission for my mod using Israeli units and our Arab insurgents.   Our Arab insurgent/civilian pack should be out extremely soon by the way.  It will include a VBE van as well and come with a demo mission (which is already done).

Two small things. AI and not being able to shoot out of vehicle windows. I think we have to wait for ArAs. wink_o.gif

As for Mission Maker's not knowing realism. That's BS. I always put realism first. If a mission is realism-wise unlogical or simply wrong, I don't create it.

EDIT: Oh, and for the simulation thingy. If I ever fit one of 'em beside my bed THEN I'll tell you my opinion. tounge_o.gif

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As for Mission Maker's not knowing realism. That's BS. I always put realism first. If a mission is realism-wise unlogical or simply wrong, I don't create it.

I'd say a good 95% of mission makers can't/won't make a realistic mission. Their missions might be pretty to look at and fun, but not realistic.

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Yeh, but about 75 % of them are newbies that hardly know how to put out an end trigger. What I meant was good missions (with a little bit of skill to back 'em up) are realistic. Or summin. biggrin_o.gif

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We do more training than anyone here probably realizes. All of the stuff you guys talk about, real convoy live fire ranges, using miles gear with civilians (JRTC), etc. I posted about VCCT because it was like playing a big video game. Let me again say, as someone who has been in the Army for 5 years, it was EXCELLENT training!

Monty

@Teg

We call them VBIEDs (vehicle born IEDs)

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Quote[/b] ]you aren't serious about calling this "cool" are you?

I'm sorry to expose you to all the horrors, but you really need to take a look at those videos, and have a bucket handy. OFP destructs look better than the 'infantry', and whatever it is that they call animations. It's worse than sad, as a US taxpayer, I'm outraged, but I'll keep quiet for the moment because I'm *cough*cough* a competitor.

from video 1:

"In just 183 days, working through nights, weekends, and three hurricanes, they designed, developed, and delivered the first trainer of its kind."

you don't find that impressive? crazy_o.gif

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Hmmph. Tell your CO to get out of his honeycombed porta-potty toy and get a real sim...

darth.jpg

Quote[/b] ]

"Join the Dark Side of the Flashpoint, it is useless to resist..."

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