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Spy17

Helicopter-plane-Tank-ship MODUL

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I love flight simulators

others hate flight simulators

Same with tank sims or all other kind of sims.

But we all have one thing in common we love the infantry combat part of OFP. And no doubt this will be the centerpiece of OFP2 too. But we also love OFP because of the interaction with all the other vehicles.

How to bring so many different vehicles into the sim without giving the game a arcade style?

As far as I can see from the first short previews there are no tank, helicopter or plane missions in the game this time- I think this is a good idea because I like better if you keep the same person over the whole story. OFP2 should have a basic model for all vehicles but concentrate on infantry battle.

But wait I said I love flight sims and I definitely loved the new possibilities you have with the OFP engine. (every simmer is dreaming about a sim where you can bail out and walk back to the airfield...)

How about an addon for OFP2 focussing only on helicopters:

-improved flight physics

-improved controls

-improved damage modell

-maybe some extra helicopters (not as important as the flight model)

-a heli pilot campaign

This would be a pay addon but if you do not buy it you can still cost free download a OFP engine upgrade with the new flight model etc. and helicopters. But you will not get the heli campaign and you will not be able to pilot the choppers (part of the pay addon). Both versions have to be compatible in MP!

As a sideffect in MP you would only find helicopter pilots that are really interested in helicopters and bought the addon.

This concept could be used for tanks, planes (and ships) as well!

I would love to see OFP continuing it´s sim path. But I can not imagine how the dev. team can hold such a high standard in every part of the sim.

I bet most fans of those vehicles would gladly pay for these addons!

And I am sure they would add more to the game than just another infantry campaign.

Hope BIS will find a good solution!

xmas_o.gif

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I hate having to spend money for different "expansion packs".  Expansion packs are just a way for companies to rip off the consumer.  I like every single part of Operation Flashpoint, does that mean I'd have to spend over 200 dollars to play an entire game?  I wouldn't really like a system like this very much.

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I just can not see BIS has the resources to make a sim like representation for all these vehicles from the start.

I guess you bought resistance also right?

Imagine resistance not just being another infantry campaign but an campaign concentrated on air combat.

If you do not like it do not buy it. Maybe you like the next one: a addon focused on tanks!

If you do not like any of these just do not buy any addons.

You will still profit from the game engine improvements downloadable for free. MP would also profit because you would find more specialized players.

And I am afraid if they do not do it this way we will maybe never see sim-like vehicles in OFP.

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I'm not saying I don't like helicopter and don't like tanks.

I'm saying I love all of OFP, and that I'd want the whole thing and to get the whole thing you'd have to spend over 200 dollars. I just don't think its right to split a game into more than one piece and then sell all the pieces seperately.

I think a game filled with with many different expansions is hard to play online because of so many different versions that conflict with each other. Take IL2: Sturmovik for example, back when it was just IL2 online it was really easy to join a game, but now you have to have IL2 + IL2 Forgotten Battles + Aces Expansion Pack + Pacific Fighters.

It's so confusing, I don't think its right to make OFP2 like this smile_o.gif

Edit: Wow, I can't spell tounge_o.gif

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As I explained:

After you downloaded the free engine upgrades you are still able to play MP with the ones that bought the addon. Only difference: you cannot pilot the improved vehicles (yes you can take a passenger seat).

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Only difference: you cannot pilot the improved vehicles (yes you can take a passenger seat).

Doesn't work that way, both parties would need the module, as the physics etc has to be simulated on both client PC's.

A good thought, but a very impractical one.

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Quote[/b] ]Doesn't work that way, both parties would need the module, as the physics etc has to be simulated on both client PC's

That´s why the physics and general game engine improvements have to come as a free downloadable patch.

You just can not enter the pilot seat because that requires the new cockpit grafix comming with the pay addon.

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I still don't think that anyone would pay just to be able to fly a helicopter.

In your suggestion, how much is each module going to cost?  I think if it was over 20 dollars not very many people would buy it, but if it's under 20 dollars then its just wasting money to develop around five different modules.

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People always had to pay to get a flight simulator!

And they sure would like to see this simulation implemented in a world as alive as the OFP world!

This is just the idea of the ultimate simulator! Sea-ground-air

I do not say that the idea would succeed - the idea is old and nobody archived it so far (OFP came closest).

It should cost as much as it has to cost regarding it´s development. If the first module flops we would not see any further modules. But I think the interest in a flight (especially heli) or tank simulator in the OFP2 engine would be big.

I pay for flightsims anyway and I would love to pay for the sim that brings my heli, plane, tank or ship into OFP2.

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If it would be released later as a vehicle oriented datadisc (featuring all vehicles you mentioned, not single moduls for each type of vehicle) with some nice aircraft+tank campaigns it wouldn't be so bad.

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People always had to pay to get a flight simulator!

And they sure would like to see this simulation implemented in a world as alive as the OFP world!

This is just the idea of the ultimate simulator! Sea-ground-air

I do not say that the idea would succeed - the idea is old and nobody archived it so far (OFP came closest).

It should cost as much as it has to cost regarding it´s development. If the first module flops we would not see any further modules. But I think the interest in a flight (especially heli) or tank simulator in the OFP2 engine would be big.

I pay for flightsims anyway and I would love to pay for the sim that brings my heli, plane, tank or ship into OFP2.

Footmunch's planes already look as good as Lock On, a bit better flight engine and OFP would be, as you say, a Flight Sim in its own right! biggrin_o.gif

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I completely agree:

The community vehicles for OFP1 look very nice and can easily compete with other sims.

Problem is in OFP1 vehicles are more arcade than simulation.

I think the better flight engine can only be delivered by BIS.

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to everyone thats says that OFP is ment to be an infantry sim, I strongly disagree, OFP is ment to be a war sim.... I would love for OFP to have all portions of the armed forces realistically and tactically modeled. Infantry can do jack shite when comming accross hundreds of main battle tanks. And that my freinds is when you hear infantry comanders frantically call for CAS and armoured support. My .02

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Yes but that option is not really available as theres no millions of people playing a game in 1 OFP server,so theres usually no armored calls. I view OFP as a kind of real life combat simulator,I can understand strongly how it was used by the military and I'm hoping OFP2 will keep the same gameplay but better engine,which of course we all know but the question is HOW much better.

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I do not want to take the vehicles out of the game!

They would be in game (arcade version)from the start just like in OFP1.

Things would only start to change as soon as the first module is released. After the release there is the new option "realistic vehicles", if you activate it only the people that bought the module will be able to steer these vehicles. (all can enjoy the new damage/flight models while taking a ride in the back).

In "arcade" mode everybody would still be able to steer the vehicles.

I just think that the ones interested in realistic vehicle simulation would gladly pay for the effort that goes into this.

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Quote[/b] ]Wont Ofp2 ship out with helos and tanks.?  

rock.gif Did you actually bother to read the other posts in this thread before posting?

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Spy did you actually think about the cost-raise and mapower that would be needed for acurately simulating MBT´s, Helos and planes ?

There is a reason why Lock On or other sims concentrate on one or two vehicle groups only. The developement process is very time-consuming and money-intense. For sure it would be nice to have it all superreal but it´s an illusion imo as there are just too many vehicles in OFP. Trying to simulate them all at a near-reality level would stress the engine very much and you have to keep in mind that the AI set would need a total customization for any vehicle specs and abilities as you don´t want to have the superreal addons and can´t use them with AI as they can´t manage to use all the weapon systems, sights, steering components in an appropriate way.

It´s not just the perfect addon, it´s the surrounding (engine) that would have to deal with every aspect of the addon on AI level to make it work perfectly.

Not to talk about the CPU load such would cause.

I guess BIS will take the best approach possible, but to turn OFP2 into a collection of vehicle sims is very unlikely imo.

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Quote[/b] ]Spy did you actually think about the cost-raise and mapower that would be needed for acurately simulating MBT´s, Helos and planes ?

From Spy's posts so far, I thought he had done. He recognised the need to improve the physics in a couple of areas and suggested one way to raise the required capital.

IMHO as long as the infantry engine is robust, im happy with everything else giving the impression of a big-ongoing combined forces battle going on.

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Thanks for the assistance ade_mcc!

To Bals:

Yes I thought about the development time and the high costs.

That´s actually why I came up with the idea of the module system.

Quote[/b] ]There is a reason why Lock On or other sims concentrate on one or two vehicle groups only

Thats why I suggested several modules. (remember the game comes with a arcade version of many vehicles, so there will be something to play with from the start)

Quote[/b] ]Trying to simulate them all at a near-reality level would stress the engine very much

There where some solid simulators in the old days (Tornado, Aces over Europe etc.) These used a fragment of the calculation power available in modern computers. Simulating the controls and displays does not take a lot of calculation. Vehicle physics take some power. What takes most in every sim are the graphics, rendering distance etc.. Thats why I think it is very important for OFP2 to have a effective way to handle high viewdistances.(maybe selectively rendering objects)

This is very important for:

-Infantry combat (binocs, sniping, recon, planing attacks)

-Tank combat (mostly over several km)

-All kind of aerial combat.

-Naval warfare

Quote[/b] ]the AI set would need a total customization for any vehicle specs and abilities as you don´t want to have the super real addons and can´t use them with AI as they can´t manage to use all the weapon systems, sights, steering components in an appropriate way

All sims have to have a working AI. Often vehicle handeling for AI is simplified. Development time has to go into this, that´s why I recommend a extra module so the dev. team can focus it´s energi.

I do not even know if the BIS team is interested or able to develop such moduls. It would still be an option for them to cooperate with a separate dev. team to get better vehicle simulation into the game. I think it would be in the BIS spirit - remember they want to create a realistic battlefield. If you recreate something as realistic as possible you consider it to be a simulator.

Quote[/b] ]I guess BIS will take the best approach possible

Go BIS get the holy grail of the complete battlefield simulator

smile_o.gif

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Go BIS get the holy grail of the complete battlefield simulator

smile_o.gif

That idea has been around since the days of Falcon 3.0. Eventually we were supposed to be able to pilot choppers and tanks in falcon, it was way too ambitious, and even more so now, since flight sims seem to be more of a niche market than they were before. Was the same idea not the kiss of death for Janes simulators? I wouldn't wish that on BIS.

While OFP's vehicles could use improvements, BIS should maintain their focus on the grunts, my 2 cents.

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Go BIS get the holy grail of the complete battlefield simulator

smile_o.gif

That idea has been around since the days of Falcon 3.0. Eventually we were supposed to be able to pilot choppers and tanks in falcon, it was way too ambitious, and even more so now, since flight sims seem to be more of a niche market than they were before. Was the same idea not the kiss of death for Janes simulators? I wouldn't wish that on BIS.

While OFP's vehicles could use improvements, BIS should maintain their focus on the grunts, my 2 cents.

But to avoid being trapped in a niche they can still have their main focus on the infantry which is a far more popular aspect.  The other parts don't have to compete with flight sims they merely have to be in the ball park.

I know that many people regard the original OFP as one of the best helicopter sims, not because of the physics, but because helicopters are meant to have quite intimate contact with what happens on the ground and only OFP achieves that.  There is no better experience for a support heli pilot to receive a request for pickup from people he knows who are under fire in a hotzone.

It wouldn't take too much improvement to make the game more well rounded.  When it is released we'll just have to ignore the Il-2 style criticisms regarding the exact flight dynamics or tank armour distributions.

edit- I was referring to "out-of-the-box". If they can add modules (relevent campaigns incl.) with improved dynamics that would be excellent. They could base what to focus on from community feed back from the initial release.

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Just read in the OFP2 press release:

Quote[/b] ]The most accurate military simulation
Quote[/b] ]Authentic and insanely detailed representation of all gear and vehicles

So they have big plans!

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They do indeed! biggrin_o.gif

Quote[/b] ]I know that many people regard the original OFP as one of the best helicopter sims, not because of the physics, but because helicopters are meant to have quite intimate contact with what happens on the ground and only OFP achieves that

That's a very valid point, and it shows how important it is that sims feature many fighting roles to the same standard, instead of concentrating on one, like the Enemy Engaged games. smile_o.gif

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Daniel @ June 11 2005,13:15)]They do indeed!  biggrin_o.gif
Quote[/b] ]I know that many people regard the original OFP as one of the best helicopter sims, not because of the physics, but because helicopters are meant to have quite intimate contact with what happens on the ground and only OFP achieves that

That's a very valid point, and it shows how important it is that sims feature many fighting roles to the same standard, instead of concentrating on one, like the Enemy Engaged games.  smile_o.gif

Totally agree.

The helicopters was quite realistic because of interaction, to the `real` battlefield and the `real` war and situations.

There was that evac-mission (a lot of user-made missions came later) where you were chinook pilot.

The thing that annoys me the most is that the helis and other vehicles were treated like an arcade addition.

Example? Even if it wasn`t intentional procedure...

The things like target indicators and stuff disappeared from your hud while in veteran mode (I know it was adjustable in difficulty options, ofcourse).

The olny thing visible even in veteran mode, was that stupid in-vehicle marker. It helped a lot, I admit, but It became anoying quite fast.

I mean, do not delete it completely in veteran mode, leave it as it is now in cadet mode, but give us something else, more realistic. GPS in vehicles maybe? Not to mention the proper avionics. It was so arcadish imho...

I`m a big fan of making ofp2 the ubersim.

First, I thought that they can do that adding the whole thing to the game before they relase it, so basically...now.

Now, I wonder if it could be done In the way It`s suggested here. Ofcourse with the engine limitations Balschoiw...

*shit I did a break while writting this and I`ve lost the weft(?) xmas_o.gif *

Anyway, here`s also something about the realism in ofp2.  blues.gif  blues.gif

edit: ofp1 had too small islands for planes, and the a10 was just a pretext for that behind-enemy-lines mission, in which you were a pilot.

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