Squad Control

[TA-50 0]

Although OFP's method of controlling members of the player's squad has stood the test of time, I admit I was intimidated by it. What's more, the squad control system, using both F1 thru F-12 and the numeric keys beneath, limited squad sizes to only twelve members. Not to mention the seperate action menu.

Scripting has worked around these limits, and we've seen products like the Chain of Command interface and General Barron's real-life combat patrol come out of the community. But I'm just wondering what BIS will have come out of the box.

So will ArAs move away from OFP squad control and perform like games like Full Spectrum Warrior and Brothers in Arms: with their contact sensitive point-and-click interface? Or perhaps Ghost Recon 2 & 3, with their map-like interface? Or will ArAs retain a revamped version of OFP interface?

Personally, I'm a fan of FSW's and Brothers in Arms (semi-) intelligent AI squad members who react to contacts in a realistic manner, and are able to be quickly moved about with the click of a mouse.

Any comments?

[Guest Ti0n3r]

Im pretty sure things will stay the way they are.

But am I the only one who think that is a good thing?

I guees so

[gandalf the white 0]

TA50, don't forget that BiA , though it doesn't look like it, is scripted to death. OFP AI is not.

[SnypaUK 0]

If your AI guys now what takes cover means and can do that and similar tasks well and indicate targets better, yeah the current system is good, although i still dream of a game where i can command a whole platoon to company of troops and still be playing a shooter

[RUKH 0]

Voice control shortcuts like "one, cover (point area)" "six, target (point)" "all, danger"

That would be a really usefull feature and would immerse you alot imo.

[Espectro (DayZ) 0]

Actually, I think the ofp: cwc squad control was perfect. The only limitation was the (at some times) ignorant AI.

But, as BIS announced about "game 2", we will have control of more than just a single squad. But why not just have officers under you just like now, using your F-keys?

Only difference now, would be looking at the map, setting up waypoints, and orders for each officer to order his men around.

Just imagine:

Orderring 1 group to flank left, and use suppressive fire, then another go right to make a decoy - making the enemy totally astonished, just so you can make your frontal attack while they are laying duck.

m000

PS: Oh yea, im BAACK!!

[Scrub 0]

Quote[/b] ]RUKH Posted on May 31 2005,07:43

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Voice control shortcuts like "one, cover (point area)" "six, target (point)" "all, danger"

That would be a really usefull feature and would immerse you alot imo.

In addition to the simple point and shoot, why not have modifier keys?

Select unit and:

Click on point = command move (already in OFP)

Click on enemy unit = engage unit (already in OFP)

Alt+click on point = cover direction (already in OFP)

Alt+click on enemy unit = Target unit

Ctrl+click on points = Add waypoints and command move

Ctrl+click on enemy = Target unit and only return fire ( I missed this functionality in OFP.  Got shot up often trying to command them to open fire after issuing a hold and being spotted.)

[jakerod 254]

Right clicking on an enemy unit tells a unit to target it already.

[TA-50 0]

In addition to the simple point and shoot, why not have modifier keys?

Select unit and:

Click on point = command move (already in OFP)

Click on enemy unit = engage unit (already in OFP)

Alt+click on point = cover direction (already in OFP)

Alt+click on enemy unit = Target unit

Ctrl+click on points = Add waypoints and command move

Ctrl+click on enemy = Target unit and only return fire ( I missed this functionality in OFP.  Got shot up often trying to command them to open fire after issuing a hold and being spotted.)

I really like this idea.

[Heatseeker 0]

The original interface is great, i just think most players didnt take advantage of all the possibilities and fun it can provide, you can split your squad into fireteams and easily select them than way, use the move comand and choose direction and distance (ex: SW, 500M), you can select a couple a.i. soldiers and tell them to advance so they act like decoy i mean scouts , you can order your AT soldiers to stay back so you dont loose them so easily in a unexpected infantry encounter, you can use watch direction, flank, lotsa formation options, it was really well done and fitting to the game style .

The problems with it were gameplay related, keeping them a.i. teamates alive, lack of cover and the see first kill first design, it didnt work so well in the heat of the battle because you had to focus on surviving, shooting and ordering, so many of those comand options dont get used alot in combat situations.

I still think the current interface is well suited for ARAS though .

[baff 0]

fix bayonets.

thats the command i await the most.

a flank command would be good.

aim at target and select flank left or flank right.

"surrender" might be another intresting one.

or select a target and then "take prisoner" as well.

that could add some depth for mission scripters.

[Munk 0]

fix bayonets.

thats the command i await the most

Download the UKF DPM Troop pack then

[G-Capo 0]

Maybe it will be similar to Battlefield's 2 Commander mode?

I liked the Old OFP squad control,If they mess around with it too much it can be confusing.

[Espectro (DayZ) 0]

I dont know why people want the bayonets on the weapons???

I mean, how often are you that close to an enemy on a battlefield?

Ive only been that close as blackop/spetsnaz and they have knives/showels....

Will bayonets be usefull? I dont think so

[baff 0]

I get that close everytime I enter a building for example.

Or storm a trench or defended fortification.

(I don't want to put down my rifle and pick up a little spade, it's a bit under powered compared to a 30 round fully automatic spear tipped assault rifle).

How many times have you died reloading or drawing a secondary weapon in CQB?

To my knowledge a bayonet charge was last used in combat no earlier than May of 2004.

Quote[/b] ]SCOTTISH troops fixed bayonets and fought hand to hand with a Shi’ite militia in southern Iraq in one of their fiercest clashes since the war was declared more than a year ago, it was reported last night.

Soldiers from the Argyll and Sutherland Highlanders mounted what were described as "classic infantry assaults" on firing and mortar positions held by more than 100 fighters loyal to the outlawed cleric Moqtada al-Sadr, according to military sources.

<...>

"It was very bloody and it was difficult to count all their dead," one source was quoted as saying. "There were bodies floating in the river."

The Argyll and Sutherland Highlanders were drawn into the fighting when soldiers in two Land-Rovers were ambushed on Friday afternoon about 15 miles east of the city of Amara. The soldiers escaped, only to be ambushed a second time by a larger group of militia, armed with machine-guns, rocket-propelled grenades and mortars.

Reinforcements were summoned from the Princess of Wales’s Royal Regiment at a base nearby. "There was some pretty fierce hand-to-hand fighting with bayonets fixed," the source added. "There were some classic assaults on mortar positions held by the al-Sadr forces."

Official spokesman Major Ian Clooney confirmed the Mehdi army "took a pretty heavy knocking", but refused to specify tactics. "This was certainly an intense engagement," he added....

http://www.blackfive.net/main/2005/04/highlanders_fix.html

more sensationally retold in The Sun newspaper.

Quote[/b] ]

Bayonet Brits kill 35 rebels

The Sun (UK) ^ | 5/16/04 | Unattributed

----------------------------------------------

OUTNUMBERED British soldiers killed 35 Iraqi attackers in the Army’s first bayonet charge since the Falklands War 22 years ago. The fearless Argyll and Sutherland Highlanders stormed rebel positions after being ambushed and pinned down.

Despite being outnumbered five to one, they suffered only three minor wounds in the hand-to-hand fighting near the city of Amara.

The battle erupted after Land Rovers carrying 20 Argylls came under attack on a highway.

After radioing for back-up, they fixed bayonets and charged at 100 rebels using tactics learned in drills.

When the fighting ended bodies lay all over the highway — and more were floating in a nearby river. Nine rebels were captured.

An Army spokesman said: “This was an intense engagement.â€

The last bayonet charge was by the Scots Guards and the Paras against Argentinian positions.

Heres an account from that very enagement in 1982 (very close to the magic 1985)

Quote[/b] ]Now in phase three, RF Coy is able to come up, although the battle is far from over. With 3 Platoon giving covering fire, Number 1 and Lt Lawrence's 3 Platoon continue the assault on the eastern end, again using the MAW's and LAW's, but also moving forward in small groups taking positions with grenades and bayonets. Eventually around 8.15 am and well after dawn, Tumbledown is in the Scots Guard's hands after fighting probably the best Argentine unit and losing eight men and the Royal Engineer.

http://www.naval-history.net/F58tumbledown.htm

More from the iraq war. Here a U.S. military representative describes (contemptuosly) the tactics of the enemy forces.

Quote[/b] ] Helping Flush Insurgents From Western Iraq: ... army is still running around with bayonets at the end of their rifles

http://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=....&q=http

2003 (Although of course his own forces are still known do the same thing too).

Quote[/b] ]US Soldiers are now dealing with demonstrations in Baghdad by standing in lines with M-16s raised, with bayonets attached

http://www.warblogging.com/archives/000670.php

They aren't standard equipment for a joke.

So maybe a "fix bayonets" order and also a "charge" order to go with it.

The adrenalin and aggression of fighting like that must be incredible. I bet they were all screaming.

How exciting would it be to defeat an enemy that way in Flashpoint?

[G-Capo 0]

Bayonets would be the ultimate humiliation kill and would make for some good bayonet battles.

[@cero 0]

If the limitation on controlable squad members is to do with the "F" keys, then we should be allright if we had a key(F1 anyone) that once cliked in at the same time as the other unit key, would select a unit that is over 12.

Now saying that, the "F1","F2","F3","F4","F5","F6",

"F7","F8","F9", and "F10" keys should stay as they are now, then use "F11" to acces the next unit, so if you press "F11" and "F1" at the same time, you should be able to select unit 11, if you press "F11" and "F6" for example, you would be selecting unit 16.

Regards.

@CERO.

[7-62 0]

If the limitation on controlable squad members is to do with the "F" keys, then we should be allright if we had a key(F1 anyone) that once cliked in at the same time as the other unit key, would select a unit that is over 12.

Now saying that, the "F1","F2","F3","F4","F5","F6",

"F7","F8","F9", and "F10" keys should stay as they are now, then use "F11" to acces the next unit, so if you press "F11" and "F1" at the same time, you should be able to select unit 11, if you press "F11" and "F6" for example, you would be selecting unit 16.

Regards.

@CERO.

realy bright ideea!

[MidShip 0]

As RUKH mentioned, commanding a squad seems to be best done by voice commands. Player actions remain to be best done by keyboard or mouse , as usual.

As still posted , on behalf of the microsoft speech SDK and a small editable plugin , OFP in the present state, still can command squads by voice commands. There is a minor limitation as some command numbers are organized dynamically by the OFP resource. If those are delivered by AA to the speech engine, one really commands as one speeks.

As said, one still can it check out, which gives a quite other dimension in the speed and foregoing at CQB missions for instance.

[Espectro (DayZ) 0]

I get that close everytime I enter a building for example.

Or storm a trench or defended fortification.

(I don't want to put down my rifle and pick up a little spade, it's a bit under powered compared to a 30 round fully automatic spear tipped assault rifle).

How many times have you died reloading or drawing a secondary weapon in CQB?

To my knowledge a bayonet charge was last used in combat no earlier than May of 2004.

Quote[/b] ]SCOTTISH troops fixed bayonets and fought hand to hand with a Shi’ite militia in southern Iraq in one of their fiercest clashes since the war was declared more than a year ago, it was reported last night.

Soldiers from the Argyll and Sutherland Highlanders mounted what were described as "classic infantry assaults" on firing and mortar positions held by more than 100 fighters loyal to the outlawed cleric Moqtada al-Sadr, according to military sources.

<...>

"It was very bloody and it was difficult to count all their dead," one source was quoted as saying. "There were bodies floating in the river."

The Argyll and Sutherland Highlanders were drawn into the fighting when soldiers in two Land-Rovers were ambushed on Friday afternoon about 15 miles east of the city of Amara. The soldiers escaped, only to be ambushed a second time by a larger group of militia, armed with machine-guns, rocket-propelled grenades and mortars.

Reinforcements were summoned from the Princess of Wales’s Royal Regiment at a base nearby. "There was some pretty fierce hand-to-hand fighting with bayonets fixed," the source added. "There were some classic assaults on mortar positions held by the al-Sadr forces."

Official spokesman Major Ian Clooney confirmed the Mehdi army "took a pretty heavy knocking", but refused to specify tactics. "This was certainly an intense engagement," he added....

http://www.blackfive.net/main/2005/04/highlanders_fix.html

more sensationally retold in The Sun newspaper.

Quote[/b] ]

Bayonet Brits kill 35 rebels

The Sun (UK) ^ | 5/16/04 | Unattributed

----------------------------------------------

OUTNUMBERED British soldiers killed 35 Iraqi attackers in the Army’s first bayonet charge since the Falklands War 22 years ago. The fearless Argyll and Sutherland Highlanders stormed rebel positions after being ambushed and pinned down.

Despite being outnumbered five to one, they suffered only three minor wounds in the hand-to-hand fighting near the city of Amara.

The battle erupted after Land Rovers carrying 20 Argylls came under attack on a highway.

After radioing for back-up, they fixed bayonets and charged at 100 rebels using tactics learned in drills.

When the fighting ended bodies lay all over the highway — and more were floating in a nearby river. Nine rebels were captured.

An Army spokesman said: “This was an intense engagement.â€

The last bayonet charge was by the Scots Guards and the Paras against Argentinian positions.

Heres an account from that very enagement in 1982 (very close to the magic 1985)

Quote[/b] ]Now in phase three, RF Coy is able to come up, although the battle is far from over. With 3 Platoon giving covering fire, Number 1 and Lt Lawrence's 3 Platoon continue the assault on the eastern end, again using the MAW's and LAW's, but also moving forward in small groups taking positions with grenades and bayonets. Eventually around 8.15 am and well after dawn, Tumbledown is in the Scots Guard's hands after fighting probably the best Argentine unit and losing eight men and the Royal Engineer.

http://www.naval-history.net/F58tumbledown.htm

More from the iraq war. Here a U.S. military representative describes (contemptuosly) the tactics of the enemy forces.

Quote[/b] ] Helping Flush Insurgents From Western Iraq: ... army is still running around with bayonets at the end of their rifles

http://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=....&q=http

2003 (Although of course his own forces are still known do the same thing too).

Quote[/b] ]US Soldiers are now dealing with demonstrations in Baghdad by standing in lines with M-16s raised, with bayonets attached

http://www.warblogging.com/archives/000670.php

They aren't standard equipment for a joke.

So maybe a "fix bayonets" order and also a "charge" order to go with it.

The adrenalin and aggression of fighting like that must be incredible. I bet they were all screaming.

How exciting would it be to defeat an enemy that way in Flashpoint?

Very rarely have i been killed while reloading at close combat... but then again, i never storm a building with only 3 rounds in my weapon

What im saying is, bayonets would be cool, yes... but its very low on MY priority list, since i dont think i will ever be using it... Im sure i wont miss it if its not there.

[Guest Ti0n3r]

IMO there's no need for bayonets in ArAs.

Mabye something for "OFP2"?

[baff 0]

killing with your bare hands strikes me as emotionally difficult.

I think a bayonet charge should have an associated sound effect like screaming or shouting some sort of nonsence battlecry.

[7-62 0]

killing with your bare hands strikes me as emotionally difficult.

I think a bayonet charge should have an associated sound effect like screaming or shouting some sort of nonsence battlecry.

yes, killing with bar hands, knife,bayonet,plastic bag(anyone manhunt?) its so primal and animalic but that will increase the game atmosphere.

[TA-50 0]

If the limitation on controlable squad members is to do with the "F" keys, then we should be allright if we had a key(F1 anyone) that once cliked in at the same time as the other unit key, would select a unit that is over 12.

Now saying that, the "F1","F2","F3","F4","F5","F6",

"F7","F8","F9", and "F10" keys should stay as they are now, then use "F11" to acces the next unit, so if you press "F11" and "F1" at the same time, you should be able to select unit 11, if you press "F11" and "F6" for example, you would be selecting unit 16.

Regards.

@CERO.

IMO, OFP players already mirco-manage their squads.  In general, the military works by a rule of fours.  There are rarely more then four soldiers directly controlled by one soldiers.  For example:

Company Commander: 4 Platoon Leaders (plus XO & 1SG)

Platoon Leader (& PSG): 4 Squad Leaders

Squad Leader: 2 or 3 Team Leaders

Team Leader: 3 or 4 soldiers

I know this next comment might provoke some, but who truly utilizes every soldier when they play with a 12 soldier squad?  Especially when that squad is dismounted light infantry in contact.  Look at how one uses a 12 player squad, and contrast it with the player who uses the smaller 3 or 4 character squad.  Its the same condition we see when one plays a RTS and only has a few troops remaining on screen.

I would like to see ArAs turn into something where a squad leader can latch together and hotkey groups (fireteams) together on the fly.  Semi-intelligent fireteams controlled with the "F#" series might be better controlled, especially when on the offense.

On the other hand, of course players want to control of every member.  But under certain conditions.  When I'm on the defense, or in ambush, I truly emplace each and every soldier and major weapon system.

[Dark Soldier 0]

IMO, OFP players already mirco-manage their squads. In general, the military works by a rule of fours. There are rarely more then four soldiers directly controlled by one soldiers. For example:

Company Commander: 4 Platoon Leaders (plus XO & 1SG)

Platoon Leader (& PSG): 4 Squad Leaders

Squad Leader: 2 or 3 Team Leaders

Team Leader: 3 or 4 soldiers

Hehe... looks like someone watched too many Delta Force or SEAL movies :-)

Na, what I mean is that regular army squads usually consist of 5 to 10 people, only special forces use 4 man squads (guess where they copied it from... nazi germany).

So Ceros idea looks pretty nice to me.

One could use F1-F8 for direct assignment and then F9-F12 as multipliers. In the right combination, u can adress up to 8*16=128 units (platoon/company size ?). Or you make that 'limit' between F8 / F9 dynamic, eg. you have only 11 soldiers, you can use F1-F11 for assignment, if you have 24 soldiers, use F1-F10 etc...