realism

[Batukhan 0]

OFP2 aint gonna be a war, its gonna be a game. And games are supposed to be fun. Get used to it or enlist into a real army.

That's not actually correct. "OFP2" will be a battle simulator, as it's predecessor. And it will be fun, but because of it's reality, not because of it's gameplay.

I really can't see why are you in this forum anyway. Everybody else here wants realism.

[Zerg 0]

I say I want to be able to keep a helicopter in air withoth having to read a manual first and in reply I get a chorus of people shouting "arcade". Slick.

Realism is nice. It is why I played OFP for last 4 years instead of Serious Sam. But realism especialy when it comes to simulating flying machines can be overdone to the point where it is no longer fun. I hear people talking about 100% realism. Why don`t you stop for a moment to think what 100% realism is? Its real world realism. And in real world you rubb benches on ground for 200 hours before you are even allowed into a cockpit of a helicopter. Now if struggling with controls to keep a helicopter in air (which is exactly what happens when a rookie tries it under "100% realism") is your idea of fun go ahead try flying one in real life, but for the less masochist inclined some simplifying deviations from real life will go a long way in making this game more fun.

And next time I would appreciate it if I got replies to what I acctually wrote instead to what overzealous minds assume I must have been thinking.

[Zerg 0]

OFP2 aint gonna be a war, its gonna be a game. And games are supposed to be fun. Get used to it or enlist into a real army.

That's not actually correct. "OFP2" will be a battle simulator, as it's predecessor.

Oh?? OFP1 wasn`t a game?! OMG then you have to tell that to Bohemia studios, because they obviosly don`t know considering they go on about talking stuff like: "From authors of a million selling GAME Operation: Flashpoint."

And it will be fun, but because of it's reality, not because of it's gameplay.

I really can't see why are you in this forum anyway. Everybody else here wants realism.

Oh?? So you are saying its gameplay is gonna suck?? Then I really don`t see why you are on this forum, everybody else here thinks its gameplay is gonna be superb.

[gandalf the white 0]

OFP2 aint gonna be a war, its gonna be a game. And games are supposed to be fun. Get used to it or enlist into a real army.

That's not actually correct. "OFP2" will be a battle simulator, as it's predecessor.

Oh?? OFP1 wasn`t a game?! OMG then you have to tell that to Bohemia studios, because they obviosly don`t know considering they go on about talking stuff like: "From authors of a million selling GAME Operation: Flashpoint."

Well, it's hard to create a completely new category for "all-round war simulator" , though now OFP is most likely classes as a tactical shooter. Point is that it requires more improvisation / brainpower then more linear games. it's the "do that, here's a pistol and a clip with nine rounds" game people wanted. the freedom is what attracts OFP players to it. OFP can be arcade, but it can also be made to a point it's almost not fun to play (Hd weapons). best thing is that it all works online without getting twenty-five ">>>CHEATER!!1!<<<" labels on your forehead, and every server has unique missions, instead of the (for example) 16 preset DM maps present in Halo.

And it will be fun, but because of it's reality, not because of it's gameplay.

I really can't see why are you in this forum anyway. Everybody else here wants realism.

Oh?? So you are saying its gameplay is gonna suck?? Then I really don`t see why you are on this forum, everybody else here thinks its gameplay is gonna be superb.

The gameplay will be superB because of it's realism. it offers something BF2 , MOH, CoD , and all those games are lacking: realism. this realism provides athmosphere, instead of the "wow! nice graphics" reaction that games like BF2 and CoD2 are currently doing.

Were you ever "scared" by OFP? Kulgujev, you don't see a bloody thing, the firing just stopped, a shilka is rolling somewhere close, etc etc. or those moments where you have to keep moving , cause if you stop for a second you get assraped by a sniper you can't even see?

OFP is made to simulate war. imo fear and disgust is a big part of this, and OFP is doing it's job very well at that. with those ECP blood effects you sometimes really think somebody's guts got blown clean out.

EDIT:quoting is an art

[privatenoob 0]

Oh?? OFP1 wasn`t a game?! OMG then you have to tell that to Bohemia studios, because they obviosly don`t know considering they go on about talking stuff like: "From authors of a million selling GAME Operation: Flashpoint."

There are games called soldier/war simulators, such as WWII online, Silent Hunter III, americasarmy to some extent, and a whole lot of airplane sims. And others I have forgot to mention.

Thats what he meant. If you dont know em, you should check em out.

Actually Bistudio themselves call it a military simulator.

The DEV statement are that even MORE realism is to expect in "Ofp2" but still we would be able to try on everything and any vechicle so I guess it will be interesting to see how this will be done. And yes a manual pls!

[shinRaiden 0]

Hmm, what if...

Codmasters decides to be EA's slave monkies and makes "Operation Flashpoint 2 : BF2 return to Vietnam"? That would be a very cold day in the burning place before it would sell well here.

[privatenoob 0]

The gameplay will be superB because of it's realism. it offers something BF2 , MOH, CoD , and all those games are lacking: realism. this realism provides athmosphere, instead of the "wow! nice graphics" reaction that games like BF2 and CoD2 are currently doing.

Interesting you should mention this, I just read an interview with Marek where he addressed this problem; people are overlooking gameplay for graphics. And most of these game engines cant compete with the Virtual Battlefield System, having an island like in OFP would be overkill for em.

Which recent interview was it that Marek said they will NOT making an arcade game? It was an interview about "Ofp2" and not Armed Assault I think.

[JdB 151]

Which recent interview was it that Marek said they will NOT making an arcade game?

Just about every single one of them, in every interview the disgust for unrealistic games is quite evident

[funnyguy1 0]

Flashpoint showed me that being a soldier isn`t that fun as I thought. Well Moh and some other games were close to that, but they hadn`t to much realism, I mean...In ofp you act like you had just taken the rifle in your hands, and entered the battlefield. If you`re some kind of total military noob, you`ll be killed in a few secs, because you`re runing around like a rabbit...like my cousin...I think he would do exactly the same in real life

As gandalf said, all those `negative` feelings conected with war and military conflicts simulate the war correctly in games and movies...

Private Ryan?BHD?

It`s good to hear that there are few more guys who want to reach the line between the realistic and playable gameplay and ultrarealistic and then almost noplayable...

It`s fun because when you`re there, you realise that you`re not so good as you thought, so yes, It`s some kind of masochism

And what then? Well, for all you who don`t like this idea, just change the realism mode... Probably I`ll change it too...

But the next thing I`ll do...I`ll start the campain from the point I was forced to change the realism, and `play it to the bone`...

[privatenoob 0]

Which recent interview was it that Marek said they will NOT making an arcade game?

Just about every single one of them, in every interview the disgust for unrealistic games is quite evident

[Batukhan 0]

Were you ever "scared" by OFP?  Kulgujev, you don't see a bloody thing, the firing just stopped, a shilka is rolling somewhere close, etc etc. or those moments where you have to keep moving , cause if you stop for a second you get assraped by a sniper you can't even see?

The first time that happened to me in OFP was in the original campaign. I think it was the 5th mission, right after the assault on Montignac. It started out in the forest alone with a broken radio, and you just had to run and run and run. It was scary, made me feel lonely. No other game has ever done this to me.

And BTW, yes i want a manual too. I just loved it when i got Microsoft's Combat Flight Simulator and had to read 50 pages of PDF manual just to get the plane off the ground. And i learned so much of how planes react and actually work (not saying i'm a pro but i think i got the basics of the basics)

Edit: typo

[IronPyramid 0]

^ I remember that level, but in my case I found a UAZ, I think it was at Province?! But you're right, I've tried to just run it and its pretty intense.

[hardybastard 0]

I have to say that when on the verge of completing a mission, with the one and only save used about 15 minutes back, it gets scary then. Ur seconds away from completion when out of nowhere your getting shot at, some muda fu*ker with a machine gun has u pinned down. 1)Make a dash for it and hope u make it to completion Or 2) kill him,HOPE that's he a lone solider and not just part of a platoon. Usually i ran but got shot in the back & had to replay from a while back. Scary sh*t doe.

[Shottie 0]

The things I love about OFP are 1) getting scared when you are all alone and you watched your whole team die in front of you 2) The open-endedness (not sure thats a word) of the game. You have to make it to point A but to get there you have to go through 3 patrols. So you run through forests and bushese and over ridges to avoid them, or get a truck and just driver another way. 3) The amount of stuff, trucks, weapons, people, planes, trees, houses, etc. Another thing that is really neat is the damage affects. Houses get damaged by rockets, tanks,etc. If you get shot in the legs you cant walk (which when this first happened to me I thought was pretty awesome).

I got scared in OFP on one mission. It was the one in the original campaign where your leaders jeep gets ambushed and your squad goes to help. When I played it they stood around the APC when it got hit and they all died. So there I am lieing next to the burnt APC waiting for friendlies to come and get me surrounded by the enemy, scary.

[funnyguy1 0]

*beep beep* off-topic-a-bit-warning *beep beep*

We all know that war is `bad`, and those `bad` aspects are generally welcomed in games which are made for simulating war.

As the `pcgamer` aug 2005 (thx buggs) say`s, the vehicles can be demolished, and disassembled, and they want to make it really real...well, I think there`s a big chance we would have our ideal game

[Dallas 9]

Game2 seems to become an RPG all round simulation.

What made OFP realistic to me wasn't the sim like handling of vehicles and aircrafts, but because you got a feeling of being in a world consisting of actual time and great distances. The weather would vary, the day would pass and there were no small maps confined by 'walls'. I'd like more realistic flight models, but I don't need realism pushed to the extend where the pc refuse me to fly, because I haven't got perfect eyesight or are too tall.

OFP created a creditable world and took some believable liberties. You started off as a infantery rookie, following strict orders as you took your first steps in the world of OFP. When you later needed to operate tanks, helicopters and jets or perform covert special operations, you changed character. Each of the new character came with a personal history and has creditable skills in his specialized field.

I'd also like to see a long learning curve, but not necessarily an impossibly steep one. BIS seems to be talking about taking a RPG approach to this sim, I'd like them to impliment a classic RPG feature: Different Classes. 4 or 5 different classes(maybe even more). Infantery, Pilot, Vehicle driver, Special Operator, possibly with subclasses as medic, sniper, Help pilot, ect.

Each class would have skill advantages/disadvantages.

Infatery men: good shooters, average drivers, poor pilots.

Pilots: Good pilots, average drivers, poor infantery equipment.(No more pilots ejecting with AT launchers and sniperrifles)

I don't know if I'm making sense, I'm just thinking it up as I type. You get the drift, I hope so.

Speaking of RPGs I want my 'Game2' pilot to be an Half-Elf with natural nightvision.  

[Rikki Tikki Tavi 0]

One thing I don't want is for your personal accuracy to be affected by any possible classes (if that's even implemented). I'm not opposed to that idea, but I don't want the game defining how well I drive a car, or how accurate I am with my rifle etc. With the Ai this could be useful; as in no more infantry piloting helicopters and aircraft like trained pilots.

[Mr.BerZerk 0]

Quote[/b] ]Dallas wrote: I'd also like to see a long learning curve, but not necessarily an impossibly steep one. BIS seems to be talking about taking a RPG approach to this sim, I'd like them to impliment a classic RPG feature: Different Classes. 4 or 5 different classes(maybe even more). Infantery, Pilot, Vehicle driver, Special Operator, possibly with subclasses as medic, sniper, Help pilot, ect.

Each class would have skill advantages/disadvantages.

Infatery men: good shooters, average drivers, poor pilots.

Pilots: Good pilots, average drivers, poor infantery equipment.(No more pilots ejecting with AT launchers and sniperrifles)

Ok, were talking realism here.

If they are going ALL the way, wich i really hope they do, You'll be starting off youre campaign at a bootcamp. Lets say they have theese "classes", and you could start off wich school you wanted to join, and you have to go trough lets say... an hour or two with training at each "school". this would be awesome, not like the training you get at AA, like 5 minutes or less with the M16 and you are allowed out in the field.and once in battle as a member of a infantry unit you wont get youre hands on a chopper no matter what, but doing youre tasks as an infantry unit. this would give you HOURS after HOUR with fun, cause you could restart and go on another "school" and play as, lets say, a member of a tank crew, oooooooooooooohraaaaah!

[Daniel 0]

Would also be cool to pick different career paths depending on your results, ie sniper or pilot, but still do the same open ended campaign.

[Shottie 0]

Daniel @ July 15 2005,16:25)]Would also be cool to pick different career paths depending on your results, ie sniper or pilot, but still do the same open ended campaign.

Thats a good idea, if you choose a different career the campaign still plays the same but you get the other side of it, you get called in for airsupport as a pilot, or you call in airsupport as a ground humper.

[funnyguy1 0]

The only problem I see is dynamic campaign...

because of this, the conflict won`t be the same everytime you start it again...

So, you should change the careers during the one particular campaign , and again, there won`t be situations like:

1) you`re soldier, you call CAS

2) you`re pilot, you`re the one who provide the CAS for those poor man below

because of it`s dynamic structure.

Imho they could tangle the plot and missions (first you`re spec op, you do the job silently, then you`re ordinary private thrown into that area with you`r squad),

but since it won`t be a single-mission based campaign, the only way is to choose which role you want to play now (at the moment)... for ex:

you`ve got objectives on the map, and you decide what kind of strike would it be, so first of all you try to destroy some AA posts there (you`re doing the job as a black op), then you bombard it (you move to the bomber`s cocpit), and so on, BUT

you re some kind of general then, and it`s been said that the generalls will be controlled by AI.

And imagine those guys allways choosing the easiest way...

Although It`s great that we`ll have dynamic campaign and stuff, I don`t give a **** how this thing will work, ofcourse It will, but I still have no idea.

I find it important, because it`s part of the on foot vs in a vehicle problem. The proper balance between walking ang driving in one campaign.

Well, BIS can simpy copy the style from the cwc campaign, and make those small chapters (something like that also has been said), but I don`t like starting the game as a trooper, and ending it as a black op or tank commander...

Imagine the end of this whole conflict (showed as a ugly thing ofcourse, thx for no `nam BIS) from the private`s point of view.

[Moving Target 0]

what i would like to see is a kind of "CTI" against the AI. Like you both start off with armies and front lines, and the human players could direct artillery strikes to support and attack, or order some apaches to attack armour. This would enhance the "have you seen the enemy, yes i have" approach, and if BIS can pull something off like this for MP i am sure that it would become one of the best games around.

[Shottie 0]

what i would like to see is a kind of "CTI" against the AI. Like you both start off with armies and front lines, and the human players could direct artillery strikes to support and attack, or order some apaches to attack armour. This would enhance the "have you seen the enemy, yes i have" approach, and if BIS can pull something off like this for MP i am sure that it would become one of the best games around.

I don't know what you mean by this. So you want an RTS option?

[funnyguy1 0]

Well, It look like it`s gonna be some kind of large scale CTI, but with the AI generalls...

Personally I think, you would be bored much faster if It`s RTS like, and you`re the main commander.

To sum up, They said that there will be soldier, commander, spec op chapters, but in fact nothing has been said about the vehicles ( I mean the vehicle operators ).

Would it be soldier, commander, tank commander, chopper pilot, spec op? We don`t know yet. Correct me if I`m wrong.

[sputnik monroe 102]

Have any of you played Enemy Engaged Apache vs Havoc,Enemy Engaged Comanche vs Hokum,Longbow 2, or Falcoln 4?

I played EEAH and loved it. The dynamic war made sense and I spent a lot of time just watching the war unfold. For example watching a convoy drive down a road on a resupply mission requested by an artillery group that was low on ammo. Half way there the convoy is shelled by enemy artillery and thus request a airstrike on the enemy artillery battery. The strike group flies in attacks the artillery but loses a plane to a sam site and thus request a SEAD mission (suppress enemy air defense). So a wild weasel mission is flown and they attack the site. The enemy SAM site having dealt with lots of allied aircraft request a CAP (combat air patrol mission). Next thing you know there are Mig29s flying CAP in the area. The Migs spot a Abrams group proceeding down a road. The Migs pass the information on to some T80s near the location which then head off to engage the Abrams. in addition to that they also request air support in the form of Hokums and Hinds.

I did not make any of this up. It all worked like that and made sense. The game is from nearly ten years ago... imagine what game two will be like. This is no CTI or RTS this is a simulated war that makes sense and follows a logic.

Others could probably give a good example of Longbow2 and Falcon 4.0. I hear they were excellent dynamic campaigns to.