gonk 0 Posted May 21, 2005 Hmm.... Anti cheat systems just seem to add over heads to the code and only last for a while until some hacker works out how to get around it. I still like this system where you vote for an Admin and he has the right to kick anyone for abuse, cheating or just for the fun of it. Â Â I still find OFP the best game in being hackerless, more or less. Â Just long as they don't use a "steam" style of connection..... Â How would punk buster go with all these mods that don't enhance your ability to kill someone... they just make the game look better e.g. Â Add-ons like better sky, explosions, sound ect. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
c930 0 Posted May 21, 2005 I'd like to see a kind of wildcards for checkfiles. So you could search e.g. for *.exe or *.dll and so on. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ale2999 0 Posted May 21, 2005 lol kam that is some funny pic... I dont know what to do about cheaters... maybe add support for spectator mode so that matches can be reviewed and stuff. who knows Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
=Matt= 0 Posted May 21, 2005 a demo recording tool would be another great tool to get cheaters, and a very important support to the community (to replay leagues match and so), like in quake, ut, or starcraft... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Marshal 0 Posted May 22, 2005 As the owner of one of the leagues for OFP (TNT League), we find that cheating is the biggest issue today with the game. Granted, hackers will always find a way to make some little program to take advantage of a game because they lack the skill required to play without the aid of their little cheat files, but, there should be some type of cheat detector program which can route out most of the well known speed cheats and ammo cheats. For certain, I would think that there is a way for the ID changer to be stopped in its tracks. Most games on the market nowadays will not let you join a multiplayer game unless you have a valid ID code, so I cannot see why OFP cannot adopt a similar method to prevent players coming on to cheat and basically get away with it because they are hiding behind a fake ID number. Also I think that an IP identifier is an absolute must for ArA and OFP2. Players maybe able to hide behind a false ID number but they would have to go a long way to change their IP address, unless they want to go through a proxy server of course which will make their game laggier anyway. I agree that a spectator script does help with detecting and detering cheaters. My own league has adopted spectator scripts this season in our maps and we have caught quite a few players who would probably have not been caught otherwise. Also the ability to record matches would be nice (like in VBS1). This would give league admins the ability to discuss and share information regarding certain matches. I have set up an alliance between the major OFP leagues (TNT, WGL, ECL and CCL) which gets together to discuss and sort out cheating issues in our leagues. This sends out a strong message to the cheating OFP community that we will not tolerate cheaters in our leagues any longer and that we are prepared to issue league-wide bans to persons who think that they can prosper by cheating. Our committee is called 'The OFP Alliance'. So I hope BIS can appreciate what the community wants the most. An anti-cheat program so that we can have good games without worrying who is using what. Marshal Law TNT League Owner http://www.tntleague.com Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RN Malboeuf 12 Posted May 22, 2005 Actually i would like to see MP designed so the client only loads addons that the server tells it to or only what the map wants, this will solve allot of problems, and that the server give the client the choice of dloads for missing addons via several FTPs or threw the server it's self and the server must beable to utilize 10 mbit min a server bench tool that can tell you your MAX AI and it's best performance, just any thing more advanced then the OFPPREFERENCES I could go on for ever Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Dwarden 1125 Posted May 22, 2005 as co-director of one of biggest anticheat communities (AASA http://www.aaserveradmins.com ) in America's Army i second this request for implementation of PunkBuster in AA/OFP2 ... especially in todays massive MP world and scale of cheat communities , it's not anymore like when OFP/OFPR was released where it took cheats months to appear at public scene ... when cheat is today released to public cheating scene, it will have hundreds - thousands users next day ... PB does have some major advantages : - can update (to certain limit) independently at game engine updates - supports mods easily (admin responsibility to manage configs - can catch cheats working on "Direct3D hooks etc" which will be hard to keep eye on for game developers - gives admin various options to "tighten" anticheat rules - is very effective as tool against public cheating (of course there will be always some private cheat working) - contains multiple level of bans (admins, game global, all PB protected games global (for these who messing with PB functionality)) - improves greatly admins control over server yes there are some disadvantages (like need of certain Windows user rights or incompatibility with some special security software solutions) but there is one major plus ... PB is OPTIONAL , admin can disable it on server and player too ... so there will be always some servers w/o this ... and nothing prevent BIS to include as additional own basic "anticheat" system within engine ... but no matter what will be used, key is correctly developed server code and keep as much as possible to be "controlled" by server and send minimum of informations to client (only what is really needed) ... P.s. IP identifiers are waste (dynamic ranges, IP spoofing) ... You need use unique IDs, based on game serial numbers keys or/and hardware generated etc ... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
chipper 0 Posted May 22, 2005 Punkbuster will ruin the game. I have never had a problem with cheaters in ofp. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sicilian 0 Posted May 23, 2005 Its not very hard to build up community coded solution but all we need is a open server interface which we can connect to. In OFP1 we cannot because the code of the server is near like the client. But if this barrier could be broken, BI could release a server admin SDK which enables us to improve and integrate our own anti cheat measures directly in the server. i.e. - generating ingame messages from external programm - use of admin commands from external programm - do specific checkfile checks from external programm WE NEED A COMMUNICATION INTERFACE WITH THE SERVER! A server side only protocol would prevent that this is also used for cheats (except of the admin  ). I WANT AN OPEN EXPANSION COMMUNICATION PROTOCOL TO THE SERVER! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Marshal 0 Posted May 23, 2005 Punkbuster will ruin the game. I have never had a problem with cheaters in ofp. If you havent experienced cheating then I would think that either you havent played OFP very long or do not play many multiplayer games? My own league has been active since May 2003 and in that time I would guess that we have had to ban at least 10 players and one clan. That may not sound very many people, but you have to consider that these players are playing in a league situation. I have seen many players coming on with unknown names who cheat on public servers - that is the problem with the ID changer, it allows some well known names in the community go around and use cheats without detection. We have had problems where banned players have even come back into our league under an alias and a new ID number - being a league admin is a very hard job, especially when OFP in its present state is very easy to hack. I would also consider that ArA and OFP2 has some way of checking the folders in the OFP directory. Players have started using folders to hide thier cheat files. Some games check file structures as you join the game. A similar method employed by OFP would be great as it would report straight away if a player is using cheat files. As has been mentioned earlier, a filechecker that could be setup to allow certain addons (such as editorupdate102, objects and maybe BAS addons) would be very helpful for server admins and league admins such as myself because we could set down the rules as to what addons are allowed in our leagues and suggest server settings to the clans in our leagues. The big problem for the leagues who support OFP right now is that cheaters once caught can be very bitter. A fine example is my own league which at present is offline until June 1st due to a hacker taking down the site. The same happened to ECL and also the GGX website. If BIS can implement some type of file checker then we will find that these cheaters wont even bother to load up their files because they will be found out straight away. It will also keep the community a lot friendlier and united, just how OFP used to be in the early days. Unfortunately, OFP in its present state has become somewhat of a bitter community because of cheaters and players who like to think that they 'own' other players. Personally, I turn on my OFP to have fun and should not have to worry who is using what to gain an advantage. I believe that cheating has turned the most people away from this game. I would like to think that the vast majority in this forum would sympathise with my beliefs that cutting down on cheating is the way to get the OFP community back to what it was a year or so ago. Marshal Law TNT League Owner http://www.tntleague.com Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RN Malboeuf 12 Posted May 23, 2005 Unfortunately, OFP in its present state has become somewhat of a bitter community because of cheaters and players who like to think that they 'own' other players. this is true, serveral things start this, inept players or cheaters thinking advanced players wont notice something odd or OFP Urban legons, players think this is the way OFP works when it works in another in the old days we would pick up a gun of a fallen enemy after he just fired and see he still has max ammo it took us almost 3 years to have adiquite file checks that still fail on undetectable addons we need something!!!!!! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sicilian 0 Posted May 23, 2005 To fullfill the checks which are implemented in nowadays OFP an integration of an sha or even md5 check of the main executable is a must be!!! All the ingame cheating possibilities which were developed since OFP came out were broken except this main thing of editing the executable to load what ever you want. All checks BI introduced with their patches could not beat this thing! This time you are in development and it is not a support request. So please don't forget to integrate a exe check (optional: to be also executed manually per admin command) An official statement of planned measures is helpfull not to discuss until our fingers are broken and you could easily synchronize your plans with the communities experiences... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Dwarden 1125 Posted May 23, 2005 PB supports most of all requested features above ... people saying PB will ruin game got no idea about PB and cheating ... just give yourself question "if PB sux so much ... Â why it's used in 14 game titles and covering 6 different game engines ... ? " Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mattxr 9 Posted May 23, 2005 PunkBuster has to be one of the crappest Anticheat systems ever.. but it does stop the cheaters.. i would not recomend it in AA it would totaly ruin the game.. in games with PB im always getting kicked for stupid reasons when im not cheating.. i always keep upto date with PB as well.. its stupid.. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Dwarden 1125 Posted May 23, 2005 PunkBuster has to be one of the crappest Anticheat systems ever.. but it does stop the cheaters.. i would not recomend it in AA it would totaly ruin the game.. in games with PB im always getting kicked for stupid reasons when im not cheating.. i always keep upto date with PB as well.. its stupid.. stop blaming Admin decisions to be problem of PB ... and if someone is bad admin then You will be kicked in non PB game also ... please "specify" your crappest anticheat ever , like "show me something better" Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Antichrist 0 Posted May 24, 2005 I don't want PB in AA or OFP2. It is probably the best anti-cheat program out there, but it pisses me off that every time I try to play America's Army (which i do about once a week or so) I have to spend several minutes downloading PB updates. And since PB updates within a game are so freaking slow I always end up quitting the game, running pbweb and then loading the game again. Say no to PB! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Dwarden 1125 Posted May 24, 2005 I don't want PB in AA or OFP2. It is probably the best anti-cheat program out there, but it pisses me off that every time I try to play America's Army (which i do about once a week or so) I have to spend several minutes downloading PB updates. And since PB updates within a game are so freaking slow I always end up quitting the game, running pbweb and then loading the game again.Say no to PB! Â ok so because there is slow updating for some minutes to download new version or PB before u can play ... u decided to choose cheat infested game ... and just question did You wrote to EBI to improve that speeds ? ) Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Antichrist 0 Posted May 24, 2005 I don't want PB in AA or OFP2. It is probably the best anti-cheat program out there, but it pisses me off that every time I try to play America's Army (which i do about once a week or so) I have to spend several minutes downloading PB updates. And since PB updates within a game are so freaking slow I always end up quitting the game, running pbweb and then loading the game again.Say no to PB! ok so because there is slow updating for some minutes to download new version or PB before u can play ... u decided to choose cheat infested game ... and just question did You wrote to EBI to improve that speeds ? ) Well I haven't really seen cheat-infested game yet except for CS:S. So I don't see your point! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sicilian 0 Posted May 24, 2005 Even if PB is to be integrated it is the admins choice to enable or disable it! So you will always find servers without PB. Therefore your discussions are senseless for me. (Personally I would prefer to let us as much possibilities as you can (without PB ) to make our own solutions and to bring it down to the fact and needed points) Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SFWanabe 0 Posted May 24, 2005 http://ofponline.altervista.org/armed_assault_pb_plz.jpg Why dont you ask for lag while your at it. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Marshal 0 Posted May 24, 2005 Any solution must be better than OFP in its present state. A simple file checker that can be edited to allow addons for leagues would be fine. I think the main problem with the release of OFP1 was that there really wasnt a lot of information (make that no information) packed with the game when it was released (and versions thereafter) which showed server admins how to program or set up their servers to play OFP. Luckily, OFP has one of the best Mod communities and it is thanks to them that we still play OFP today, otherwise I would very much doubt that so many people would have stayed with OFP. Please listen to what were saying BIS whilst the game is in development. You know as well as I do what a certain cheat community is working on, and I have discussed this with Marek Spanel in the past. Dont let the cheat community spoil your future games. Include at least something on par with Punkbuster so that the server admins have the choice to run it on their servers if they wish. Marshal Law TNT League Owner http://www.tntleague.com Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Dwarden 1125 Posted May 24, 2005 Quote[/b] ]Well I haven't really seen cheat-infested game yet except for CS:S. So I don't see your point! You serious? i suggest You visit AC sites for todays played FPS and then start speaking "there is no cheat infested game except CS/CSS) ... that's like saying there are criminals only in 1 country ... Quote[/b] ]Why dont you ask for lag while your at it. Since when PB brings lag? as admin and player i not noticed such thing for years ... sure there is certain performance hit, but that will be using ANY anticheat solution (file hash check needs for example some CPU cyles and disk reads Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
FCOPZ-illuminator 0 Posted May 24, 2005 i agree, i thing Punkbuster is not a good solution. Maybe exists an modified and better Checkfile possibility..... (?) Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
