so many m249's

[jotte 0]

ok Eric either your just an idiot or you've never fired one cause when you get in a frenzi even if you burst fire you can still warp a barrel

You can warp the barrel of an assault rifle too if you have a nice stack of magazines. That wasn't the point of Erics post I think, more that it is not as much "a must" to change the barrel of a Minimi as much as on medium machineguns, like its big brother the FN MAG. Also, the Minimi is more "suited" to use in that sense as a " heavy assault rifle"

@ DM, acctually Manhunter have a point about the weight. I too found the Minimi-Para supprisingly light. That have little to do with the acctual weight per se but more due to its compactness. When you carry it the weight is ontop of your arms much more then with the slighly heavyer FN MAG. Might also be because my service rifle is 5.3 kg loaded, (+the weight of the recently added Aimpoint) on a ~1 meter long weapon, that I don't find the Minimi to be overly heavy. It is indeed heavy compered to M16/M4's for instance, relativly speaking.

@ twisted;

As far as ofp performance vs real life there is one important differance. In real life the first round end up where you aim and the rest , well they are spread around the target to a more or less degree depending on range and your firing position.

In ofp you only get "enough" spread from the recoil in the up direction unless you want to make it a "hd weapon" and then your will not even hit were you aim with the first round most of the time. An unfortunate quirk of ofp.

Edit: Oh yes thats right, add me to the "know what he is talking about club"

[EricJ 724]

ok Eric either your just an idiot or you've never fired one cause when you get in a frenzi even if you burst fire you can still warp a barrel

Well look, I know I put 400 rounds through a 249 without barrel warp (but it was definitely smoking).  A) it was a cool day at the range, and B) I didn't fire long bursts.  Trust me homey, I got enough witnesses who can back me up  , as well as a combat patch that was earned kicking doors down, so take that as you wish.

[-HUNTER- 1]

Also I found the gun to be surprisingly light, I dont exactly know how much weight the rounds will bring when loaded?

You're SURE you've held one?

The thing weighs 6.88Kg empty, 10.02Kg loaded with 200 rounds.

I've picked one up w/o ammo, and it struck me just how damn heavy the thing would be to lug around all day. Prey its no M240, but its still a fair old weight to carry round... Same as an M60 infact (empty), and thats 7.62...

yes really Im SURE

But before that I havent held many guns! I allways thought mg's were heavy as F... But then I picked up the minimi (para) and well I was like   dude that isnt heavy at all, well atleast not as heavy as I had expected.  

edit

agrees on the point about carrying it arround all day!

[dabitup 0]

Dude...I couldnt hold the thing for more than five seconds! It was heavy as crap UNLOADED! i'd hate to carry that thing around.

and I to have pics, but they are on the old unhooked pc so I can not post them. But trust me, I have. Didn't get to shoot it though.

I have a question for you shooting dudes: Which 249 sounds realistic? more of a "P-P-POW!" noise like the USMC assault pack or like "th-th-thud" sound like HYK's? (or on Americas army)

[FerretFangs 0]

I'd say, "P-P-POW" describes it fairly well. The M240 thuds.

[jotte 0]

Sound of it depends very much on your relative position to the gun.

FDF have rather nice sounds in general for how it sounds for the soldier at the trigger while it is less accuarate to the way it sounds to ppl around him. When you fire the movment of the mechanisms makes a rather pronounced noice, while when watching from behind its "just" the cracking/thudding sound that dominates for instance.

Wish we could have envoirmental sounds and "1st person" sounds in OFP... maybe in OFP2, if we are lucky

I like the MAP M249 sound for when I fire the gun.

[engen 0]

The only issue I ever had with the Minimi was that it tended to get stuck in the webbing alot. The Para version felt better, seeing as the compactness of the weapon made it easier to handle. Although I disliked the stock, never felt comfortable firing with it. Also, the bipod on both versions felt a big jiggly. Can't fold it in if you've pulled it out to max length etc.

Never thought the weight (loaded) was an issue either, but then again I was used to lugging around the FN MAG. The big difference between the MAG and the Minimi here is the way they are used. The Minimi is and can be fired standing up, firing in short aimed bursts against a target.

Where-as the MAG is difficult to stand up and fire from the shoulder & actually hit anything. That's where the kg's of the Minimi are felt, patroling with the weapon trained at "hostile directions".

The MAG you carry at your hip and aim in the 'general area'. ;)

Just my two cents.

[BlackScorpion 0]

Now I'm confused... Fas.org says M249 SAW weights 6.88 kilos, world.guns.ru says 7.1 kilos and FN itself says it's 7.5 kilos.

BTW one 200-round box weights about 3.1 kilos.

[miles teg 1]

Well someone is incorrect, or they are measuring the weight of different M249 variants.

I used to be a M249 gunner in my old Army Reserve unit, and yeah I think the M249's in the US Marine Assault pack are fairly close. I haven't tried the ones in Laser or INQ's packs.

Overall they don't have alot of recoil, HOWEVER they do SHAKE AROUND LIKE A BUMBLE BEE because they are lighter then the M60 that I fired before which was very stable in the prone position. In order to get stability while firing, you have to lean forward and really lay into the weapon as you fire.

Also the bipod sucks on the M249 as you can't transition to different targets very well without picking the weapon up or dragging the bipod on the ground. The M60, in contrast, had these lovely springs on the bipod (kinda like the Harris bipod) that allow you to transition from right to left very easily.

So whoever designed the M249 bipod was definitely not a machine gunner or was trying to design it less for suppressive fire and more to be fired like a rifle with precise bursts. But for horizontal suppressive spraying its not the best weapon unless you're firing from the hip with tracers or your have the bipod on a surface that will allow you to slide it around easily.

I haven't fired the M240, but the M60 (which also fires the standard NATO 7.62mmX51mm round the M240 fires) was very very accurate at extended ranges. 600 meter targets were toast with that thing and it could deliver excellent suppressive fire where I could really saturate an area nicely. But as someone else mentioned, trying to fire MMG's like the M60 or M240 like a rifle is not a good idea cuz it'll hammer you real good and the fire won't be very accurate. Hip shooting isn't too bad but thats better for assaulting and not medium to long range fire suppression.

At any rate, personally I prefered the M60 because although it was heavier, it was highly accurate, had a nice flat trajectory, and at medium ranges would totally own any adversary only armed with AK's.

However the M249 SAW was an ok weapon. The plastic ammo box sucks ass and it doesn't like dirt (never get dirt or mud on an ammo belt). But if you take reasonably good care of it, its a good weapon and puts out a pretty good rate of fire. Its also nice and light. So for close range assaulting and fire support, its a decent weapon. But I hope the Army replaces it with something more reliable and perhaps looks into other LMG's like the Israeli Negev and some of the Stoner LMG's.

But apparently soldiers in Iraq seem to be enjoying the M240 which doesn't have the reliability problems of the SAW and overall gets high marks. But Navy Seals at least are still sticking to the good ol' M60 and I hope it makes a comeback because it has very similar capabilities to the M240 and is lighter. The M240 however is supposed to be easier to clean and maintain.

At any rate, in the prone position, the M60 in OFP should be fairly stable, while in the upright position it should have more barrel rise. The M249 should be steady in the prone (assuming its simulating the gunner leaning into the weapon while firing) and it should shake around quite a bit in the upright rifle position.

As for sound...I can't remember offhand without going back to listen, but I think the Marine Assault Pack was fairly close. Its not a very low sound but not quite as high pitched as the M16 or M4 even though they fire the same round.

Also after firing you should hear the sound of brass and metal belt links falling on the ground. But thats true for any belt fed machine gun sounds.

Below is a picture of me at Ft. Hood (after range qualification at North Ft. Hood, Texas) holding two of my babies.

Chris G.

aka-Miles Teg<GD>

[dabitup 0]

Cool Miles!

I still like the M60 (or 'the pig' is what they called it in nam right?) it is proly my favorite LMG. It is very awesome.

[miles teg 1]

Cool Miles!

I still like the M60 (or 'the pig' is what they called it in nam right?) it is proly my favorite LMG. It is very awesome.  

Yeah some people still called it the M60 "the pig" when I was in, just like the M2 is still sometimes called "Ma Deuce".

But yeah, the M60 was a wonderful weapon. Reliable, accurate, and with good range. Whats interesting is that the M60 (from what I understand) is based upon the old WWII German MG-42 design. The coolest thing in the world was knocking down 800 meter targets with the help of my assistant gunner who spotted for me by watching the fall of the tracers and telling me where to adjust fire. Hitting an 800m target with just iron sights rocks!

At 600 meters, targets were toast. This is something the M249 has problems doing accurately without tons of elevation and a skilled gunner. But with the M60 its just point and shoot at that range and its easier to keep the rounds on target cuz it didn't shake around as much as the SAW. Thats because the weight of the weapon caused very little muzzle rise in the prone position. Instead, all the recoil went straight into your shoulder and was easily absorbed by the body. Standing up firing in a trench is a different story as it kicks into ya like a jackhammer. But prone position shooting is very comfortable with the M60. I'm sure the M240 is somewhat similar and most of the soldiers seem to love the M240 also.

Here's a good link on an excellent overview and report on the performance of US infantry weapon systems in Iraq:

http://www.bob-oracle.com/SWATreport.htm

Chris G.

aka-Miles Teg<GD>