Anyone with knowledge of armor combat?

[marcusjm 0]

I'm studying those armor magazines with the intent of making them as missions for OFP. However; My knowledge of armor combat is less than I would have liked.

If anyones previously active in any armored forces and have some spare time to help out(doesn't matter which nation really). Let me know .

To mods. This was supposed to be in editing/scripting. Please move it if possible.

BM

[Ex-RoNiN 0]

Actually, it has to be in Off-Topic, since you are enquiring about real life combat - one of the reasons for Off-Topic's existence

[marcusjm 0]

Well it was for a mission in fact(one of those tactical vignettes from Armor Mag). Since noone else has made missions from them I throught I would give them a shot.

However armor combat isn't my strongest suite .

This is the situation i intend to make.

tacvig97-1 (links available in the mission editing forum/realistic missions)

marcus

[marcusjm 0]

One question I have regarding this.

Are there any good platoon behvaiour scripts on ofpec regarding tank platoons? There's many ai scripts for infantry but I'm not sure about tanks.

I'm thinking about stuff like using hull-down tactics and similar maneuvers.

marcus

[hellfish6 7]

Not to make this thread a ping-pong ball, but I'm gonna go throw it back in Mission Editing, as you're asking specific questions with the purpose of making a mission. Hope it helps.

As far as I know, KeyCat is the only one who ever made scripts specifically for armor, and he did that to make the AI tanks less devastating in tank-on-tank combat.

[marcusjm 0]

I might have to call this the gypsie thread with all the movements .

I figured as much regarding tank-scripts. The main problem would of course be that you cannot really analyse terrain from scripting. Like ground height etc.

This is why I wonder if a co-op mission would fit these vignettes best. The main purpose of these(afaik) are to ensure that you use proper battlefield tactics and maneuver.

This could be cool. I don't think there are that many armor focused scenarios in OFP(well to my knowledge).

marcus

[miles teg 1]

Not to make this thread a ping-pong ball, but I'm gonna go throw it back in Mission Editing, as you're asking specific questions with the purpose of making a mission. Hope it helps.

As far as I know, KeyCat is the only one who ever made scripts specifically for armor, and he did that to make the AI tanks less devastating in tank-on-tank combat.

The tanks in my Mod were made to be the same way. Except we didn't use any scripts. Its just clever .cpp editing by Calm Terror so that when hit often instead of brewing up, the crew in the armored vehicles will bail out and are wounded while the vehicle is disabled. Also in tank battles the tanks can take several hits before exploding in order to make the battles last longer. Now mission editors CAN edit the mission so that the AI are in hulls down positions. I believe someone made a tank fighting position addon awhile back in OFP. But also on some gently sloping hills tanks can be positioned so that only their turrets are showing. But like in real life, some tanks in OFP have limited barrel depression like the BMP-1.

Also if the AI tanks are defending in a fixed position, you can set the fuel to zero so that they don't move.

For simulating Russian forces or Russian trained forces, armored and mechanized forces should attack in waves.

The real tricky part in OFP is getting the AI to simulate Western armored tactics. But generally you will have a M3 and/or OH-58 Kiowa Scout helicopters providing recon to make contact with an enemy. The AI Western tanks should then use terrain to provide cover as they outflank and destroy the enemy by attacking the sides. Minefields should be used in defensive positions as well. In OFP the mines are quite effective against armor.

The problem in OFP however is that the tanks do not use proper overwatch tactics and do not automatically roll up into a hulls down position on hill crests. BUT...some of the newer tank addons automatically pop smoke...the only bad thing is that they also can't see through the smoke and don't use the smoke to cover their movements. Instead they just roll through the smoke or sit there until the smoke clears and either the enemy tank or their tank fires first or gets destroyed.

One trick is using the CoC artillery to call in smoke rounds but I haven't figured out how to get the AI to do that with a script that changes the ammo type.

Also I'm not sure if the AI can see through the smoke or not.

Instead of this an alternative is using the JAM 2 smoke grenades and camcreate them into existence with a triggered script to cover armor movements. The AI can't see through the JAM smoke grenades.

But for each terrain type there will be different tactics. Urban combat will involve alot more infantry against tank action. Thus armor will need supporting infantry more heavily. Infantry can also be used to recon positions to avoid exposing an armored vehicle to an ambush.

But in OFP, scout helicopters are the best recon method. You can group a helicopter to a 3 tank platoon for example. This will give the tank commander a great advantage.

Anyways those are just some ideas.

Chris G.

aka-Miles Teg<GD>

[marcusjm 0]

Miles Tag, you a living type writer or something?  

Thanks for the thoughts regarding this.

This is the basic situation i need to re-create.

From the Tactical Vignette:

Situation:

You are the commander of A Team

(tank heavy), TF 2-8. You are the advance

guard company (AGC) of the TF

as it conducts a movement to contact.

The brigade commander wants the task

force to find, fix, and destroy the advance

guard of an MRR that is moving

east. This will allow the rest of the brigade

to maneuver and destroy the regimental

main body, with enough combat

power left to block the second-echelon

MRR. The task force commander directs

the AGC to find, fix, and destroy the

FSE allowing the task force main body to

maneuver into the flank of the AGMB.

Your team consists of two M1A1 tank

platoons and one mechanized infantry,

(BFV) platoon. An engineer platoon and

the mortar platoon follow in support;

you have priority of mortars. Your team

is moving on an axis south of the task

force based on an erroneous report that

the FSE was at CP 8. The terrain is

mostly open desert flanked by mountains,

with some high terrain in the center

of the zone. As you approach the intersection

at CP 6, your 1st Platoon reports

seeing approximately 20 vehicles

moving east and starting to deploy vicinity

CP 2. A moment later, task force

scouts report they have identified the

AGMB north of Hill 560 moving east

toward CP 4.

I'm thinking of using Phoenix island for this. It's so good and needs missions.

Any thoughts? Should it be co-op? Btw, i know most regarding scripting/editing so i'm not a complete newbie. I just never released anything to anyone .

I will do this add-on light. Maybe using Homers M1A1:s and perhaps VIT:s bmp:s. Nothing else i think. Or as an interesting twist I could do it using the Lost Brothers mod(if it's finished). For mortar support I wont use the fancy CoC but rather just the nice script i found in a mission.

BM

[marcusjm 0]

Anyone know what AGMB stands for as an abbreviation? Armored Group Main Body? (wild guess)

Btw, this is the basic situation at the beginning. It's not exactly the same layout as the vignette but it's hard to achieve short of making your own map.

(erm, i need to upload the image somewhere too, i'll get back to this)

marcus

[killswitch 19]

I'm thinking of using Phoenix island for this. It's so good and needs missions.

Any thoughts? Should it be co-op? Btw, i know most regarding scripting/editing so i'm not a complete newbie. I just never released anything to anyone .

As an SP mission, this is CoC CE material. Add to that CoC UA and you have the bare neccessities in "props" upon which to build the mission.

It's definitely possible for a coop variant too, without the CE and with player-controlled tank platoons and lots of playable slots for the mech platoon and engineers.

Quote[/b] ]I will do this add-on light. Maybe using Homers M1A1:s and perhaps VIT:s bmp:s. Nothing else i think. Or as an interesting twist I could do it using the Lost Brothers mod(if it's finished). For mortar support I wont use the fancy CoC but rather just the nice script i found in a mission.

I can't see this done properly without the WGL mod/addonpack (War Games League, currently in version 4.12, 5.0 in the works). It has a full kit of suitable addons. No, they are not shiny or glitzy and don't do well for OFP combat photo thread whoring since the explosions don't look like from a Bruckheimer flick, but I sure hope that's not what you're after, right?

PS:<ul>[*] MRR = Motorised Rifle Regiment

[*] FSE = Forward Security Element

[*] AGMB = Advanced Guard Main Body, I guess...

[marcusjm 0]

I havent even seen WGL(i know about it). Mostly because my mp experience is very low.

I did think about using COC CE but i wondered whether it might scare off people? It's quite complex after all.

About the flashy addons. You are right . I am someone who would like to see more focus on realistic maneuvers rather than showcasing cool addons. But sometimes i just cant leave them out(like Homers tanks or HYK).

But you may be right about CoC. It seems almost impossible to do these missions without it. Even if i know scripting fairly well I simply cannot re-create complex command like this lightly.

marcus

[TA-50 0]

I love CoC CE, but I admit I was intimidated to play, let alone script with it a few years ago.  I don't know how the community feels about it now, but I don't see too many missions using it.

If your going to use the CE, have you thought about how large of a unit you want the player to control?  Personally, I see two options:

1) Player controls one armor platoon of (four) tanks.  Or a mixed armored cavalry/mech inf platoon including bradleys and abrams supported by mounted infantry.  

Allowing players to control each tank in the CoC CE, or a team of wingmen (two vehicles) allows the player to concentrate on bounding and travelling overwatch and moving the tanks from one terrain feature to another.  CE is also pretty well suited for mounting and dismounting dismounts.

2) Player controls armor, cavalry, or mechanized infantry company which falls in line with TOE.  An armor company, for instance, might have three 4-tank platoons, and a scout platoon consisting of HMMWVs with M2s (.50 cals) or TOW launchers.  Each CoC marker would indicate a platoon or the wingmen of a platoon.  The player might sacrifice some realism because of having to manage so many assets, however.

In my opinion, both OFP and CoC CE are optimized for infantry combat. However, armor combat follows the same norms and standards of infantry combat: such as use of cover and concealment, and fire and manuever. Its just that scales are greatly increased by mechanized movement.

~TA-50

[marcusjm 0]

I have just tried the tutorial missions and it works fairly well. Designing a mission using COC is a different beast I guess . There's a huge number of scripts in these missions. I have read the manuals a bit and will do more of that.

Normally i try to focus on infantry(or motorized/mechanized) too but these "vignettes" are definatelly focused on armor (even if the ops are combined arms as such). I'm not even sure OFP can do these fairly realistically.

We'll see .

marcus

[miles teg 1]

I'm glad you found the COC system.  I haven't messed with it myself, but I was going to say, that for the mission you describe you'd definitely need one of the new command systems that have been made over the years for OFP.  

You're right they are intimidating.  I haven't messed with them myself.   There are ways of directing other units to enemy units that you detect without the CoC system, but they use scripting that I'm not familiar with.  The hardest thing in OFP is doing recon in your vehicles without getting destroyed by ATGM's or long range tank fire.   You might want to use the COMBAT M3 Bradleys for that as the uparmored variants can take a bit more dammage.  But thats your call.

As for islands, I would HIGHLY recommend the Freya island.

It includes a version with lower number of objects.  But the best part is that it has new objects that are built into the map itself (no downloading a million different building addon packs) and its very very well laid out with lots of cool terrain, towns with sidewalks, and bridges.

If you want you're welcome to use the Lost Brothers Addon pack#2 and the Sinai map.  But we have a new version of the map coming out soon so you might hold off on that.

Later on your mission using the units you mentioned might be adaptable to other mods and maps.  

Chris G.

aka-Miles Teg<GD>

[marcusjm 0]

Is Lost Brothers completelly done now btw?

I have changed strategy a bit. Realising that OFP might not be the best for these vignettes I am going to try something different. Namelly a dynamic campaign with an armored platoon as the group instead of 12 guys. Wouldn't that be something interesting? Using Sinai or Freya as a template (even if Deserts isnt my favourite).

And yes. Definatelly use COMBAT, Sigma and HOMER:s stuff .

marcus

[miles teg 1]

Sounds good! Nah the LoBo mod isn't done yet. Still a long way to go. But its not a true mod...just a bunch of addon packs.

Chris G.

aka-Miles Teg<GD>

[marcusjm 0]

Sounds good!  Nah the LoBo mod isn't done yet.  Still a long way to go.   But its not a true mod...just a bunch of addon packs.  

Chris G.

aka-Miles Teg<GD>

Just a slight modification to what I wrote. I meant the DKMM packs of course . Using Sigma for the opfor in th at case or RHS:

Even though I dont' normally like deserts I still think your Egypt vs Israel scenario will be really interesting. Now there's potential for tank battles .

amrcus

[TA-50 0]

You need to look here and check-out the PMC Command Campaign before you write-off the CoC CE.  Its later missions (use the end mission cheats to unlock if neccesary) use a great mix of infantry units supported by tanks, bradleys, and light rotary assets.  (Although you seem to want armor units supported by infantry.)

~TA-50

[marcusjm 0]

No no, I did not write COC off. It's good but I have to accept that these Armor mag examples are a bit tough to do as is without heavy modifications. At least for me that is .

However; After I'm done with the UKF dynamic campaign i want to try an armor focused dyanmic campaign.

marcus