The Middle East part 2

[deanosbeano 0]

Better video - http://video.google.com/videopl....session

Obsession - Radical Islam's War Against the West

a good video , infact it enforces what the first video is saying in as much as the first video asks how and why is radicilism in society today and tries to answer it , the second video shows the consequences of the actions in the first video.

[TrevorOfCrete 0]

Better video - http://video.google.com/videopl....session

Obsession - Radical Islam's War Against the West

By the way: The Lebanese Army is weaker than HizbAllah, and it's in no shape to do anything. And of course HizbAllah hasn't been disarmed. No-one has said they wanted to do that. Not even the Useless Nerds.

the only reason for increased Hezballah support and influence they enjoy was Israels heavy handed tatics. they only have themselves to blame. I mean comon, what did you expect the averige Lebonease to do? if you destroy his house, kill his kids, and then cluster bomb his town ofcoruse he wants vengance, who wouldnt.

[Sertorius 0]

Quote[/b] ]Israeli warplanes in 'incident' with German ship off Lebanon

Two Israeli warplanes were involved in an armed incident with a German ship patrolling Lebanon's waters as part of the UN force in the Arab country, the German military told AFP.

A spokesman for the command of the German mission in Lebanon said it was investigating the incident which took place on Monday.

According to Thursday's edition of the Tagesspiegel newspaper, two Israeli F-16 warplanes fired shots as well as anti-missile defence flares while flying low over the German vessel.

The newspaper said the incident had been reported to parliament on Wednesday by a state secretary in the defence ministry, Christian Schmidt.

In Israel, Defence Minister Amir Peretz denied his country's planes had opened fire near a German ship, in a telephone call with German counterpart Franz Josep Jung.

*Full Story*

[-ZG-BUZZARD 0]

So because Germany refuses to send ground troops to the scenario, the IDF tries to provoke the germans at sea to get an excuse to attack them? Like... wtf?!?

[theavonlady 2]

BUZZARD @ Oct. 27 2006,00:44)]So because Germany refuses to send ground troops to the scenario, the IDF tries to provoke the germans at sea to get an excuse to attack them? Like... wtf?!?

How do you make your conclusions up? They're amazingly creative.

Since the Oct. 25 news item, the IDF has issued a clear denial that any shots were fired. The German government has not disputed this.

It was also stated that Jets were scrambled because pre-established notification procedures were not followed by the German navy and the planes were sent to investigate the aircraft that suddenly appeared very close to Israel's northern coast.

Much ado about nothing, thank goodness.

[Balschoiw 0]

Quote[/b] ]It was also stated that Jets were scrambled because pre-established notification procedures were not followed by the German navy and the planes were sent to investigate the aircraft that suddenly appeared very close to Israel's northern coast.

No.

A helicopter started from a ship to conduct area surveilance and the procedures were followed literally and Israeli authorities have been informed. The helo was not violating Israel´s northern coast, it was in open waters at the Lebanon coast. As the helo had his transponder activated, it would have been no problem to see by shape and profile and tzransponder signal that the helo was friendly and member of the UN mission.

Israeli planes then went over the ship, fired shots and deployed countermeasures. This is confirmed by crewmembers of the ship in question.

Keeping in mind that isreali airforce has somewhat a bad record lately (taking out watchpost of UN forces ilegally) you can be lucky that they haven´t got shot down.

[oneoff 0]

Quote[/b] ]It was also stated that Jets were scrambled because pre-established notification procedures were not followed by the German navy and the planes were sent to investigate the aircraft that suddenly appeared very close to Israel's northern coast.

source please ,i havent heard of this addition where did it come from ?

ty in advance

[theavonlady 2]

Quote[/b] ]It was also stated that Jets were scrambled because pre-established notification procedures were not followed by the German navy and the planes were sent to investigate the aircraft that suddenly appeared very close to Israel's northern coast.

No.

A helicopter started from a ship to conduct area surveilance and the procedures were followed literally and Israeli authorities have been informed. The helo was not violating Israel´s northern coast, it was in open waters at the Lebanon coast. As the helo had his transponder activated, it would have been no problem to see by shape and profile and tzransponder signal that the helo was friendly and member of the UN mission.

Israeli planes then went over the ship, fired shots and deployed countermeasures. This is confirmed by crewmembers of the ship in question.

Keeping in mind that isreali airforce has somewhat a bad record lately (taking out watchpost of UN forces ilegally) you can be lucky that they haven´t got shot down.

No.

IAF denies firing on German warship

By JOSH BRANNON AND JPOST STAFF

In the wake of the controversy surrounding reports of IAF fighter jets firing on a German warship, <span style='color:red'>IDF sources on Wednesday denied that any shots were fired but admitted that on Tuesday morning there had been an incident in which a German helicopter took off from a warship off the Lebanese coast in an area where, according to agreements, it was required to declare the flight to the IAF.

Since the helicopter failed to follow this procedure, the IAF scrambled its fighter jets towards the area but the problem was solved without confrontation and without any shots being fired, the IDF reported.</span>

Earlier, Defense Minister Amir Peretz spoke to his German counterpart Franz Josef Jung and vehemently denied reports that the IAF had shot on a German naval vessel off the Lebanese coast.

<span style='color:red'>The IDF Spokesperson's Office released a statement stating unequivocally that "contrary to reports, the IDF did not fire at a German warship."</span>

"The defense minister clarified to his German counterpart that Israel did not fire any shots on German planes or ships," said a Defense Ministry statement.

"The defense minister declared that Israel had no intention whatsoever to carry out attacks against German forces," continued the statement, adding that Peretz had stressed to Jung the need to "increase cooperation both directly and in the framework of the UNIFIL peacekeeping force."

A German naval task force led by the frigate Mecklenburg-Western Pomerania is off the coast of Lebanon seeking to prevent weapons smuggling as part of the UNIFIL peacekeeping force set up to secure a UN-brokered cease-fire that ended 34 days of fighting between Israel and Lebanon-based Hizbullah guerrillas in southern Lebanon on August 14.

Peretz and Jung are scheduled to meet in Israel next week.

AP contributed to this report

[Donnervogel 0]

German press/navy never claimed Israelis shot at a German ship, they claimed Israeli jets passed over the ship very low, firing flares and shots from the board cannon while over the ship.

Your source is clearly very inaccurate.

[theavonlady 2]

German press/navy never claimed Israelis shot at a German ship, they claimed Israeli jets passed over the ship very low, firing flares and shots from the board cannon while over the ship.

Your source is clearly very inaccurate.

No again.

From the IDF's spokesperson:

The IDF denies firing at a German Navy vessel

Thursday 26/10/2006 09:18

IDF spokesperson wishes to clarify that, contrary to media reports, the IDF did not fire at a German Navy vessel.

Yesterday morning, October 24th 2006, a German Naval vessel and helicopter were identified off the cost of Rosh Hanikra. The helicopter had taken off from the ship without prior coordination with the IDF (as is standard). As a security measure IAF aircraft were diverted to the area in order to investigate.  

The IDF stresses that at no point did IDF aircraft fire at the German forces.

[Balschoiw 0]

So denying something makes it a must-believe ?

I keep it with the reports from the crew onboard.

Planes fired 2 undirected shots when passing over the ship and deployed infrared countermeasures. This has been confirmed by german defense ministry and the crew. Investigations are on the way.

Spokesman of german defense ministry:

Quote[/b] ]"Ich kann bestätigen, dass es zu einem Zwischenfall gekommen ist."

Translation:

" I can confirm that this incident has happened"

IDF is not credible in this as they denied the incident at all first and only admitted that it had happened after germany pressured on investigating the incident. Our defense miniter will go to Israel next week to have direct talks with you defense minister. Of course they will be talking about that incident as Perez already called Jung to express his regrets.

Germany has no interest in making up things, the IDF have in case the incident has taken place as described by naval command.

In fact this is the timeline:

- syrian trawler sends SOS after fire breaks out on ship

- BW ship Frankfurt

among other receives the SOS and onboard helicopter starts for SAR mission.

- 2 israeli fighters lift off from Ramad David lift of after israeli air

surveilance reported 2 airborne vehicles with course to israeli waters.

- german helicopter on the way to SAR mission was in Lebanon

waters and did not violate israelian borders at any time nor

flew over israeli waters.

- Israeli F16 intercepted helicopter and after visual confirmation

of german helicopter turned back and during that maneuver

countermeasures were deployed and shots with cannon were

fired.

Quote[/b] ]IDF spokesperson wishes to clarify that, contrary to media reports, the IDF did not fire at a German Navy vessel.

Noone says that they fired on german vessels. Of course this can be demeted, but they did fire shots over the ships and they deployed countermeasures.

The IDF statement is like :

"I have killed president Kennidy"

Some would read it as

"I have killed president Kennedy"

Which is almost the same but one letter makes the difference.

The difference in the IDF statement is:

"the IDF did not fire at a German Navy vessel"

to

"the IDF has fired when passing over German Navy vessel"

Of course the sentence

"the IDF did not fire at a German Navy vessel" is true as they did not directly fire at vessels, but they fired undirtected when passing them, and that´s the thing in question, not if they had attacked a vessel, which is bogus.

[SPQR 0]

English isn't my native tongue, but I guess that "firing at a German Navy vessel" is rather different from "Passing by and firing above a German Navy vessel".

Thus, IDF told the truth. Their F-16s didn't fire at the German vessel

[mp_phonix 0]

I heard they fired flares near the ship [or over it] and that the germans reported that missels were fired also. that's what I heard anyway.

Flares ? I believe so but missels or cannon fire ? that sounds a little . .un-reasonable to me, but it maybe true -> idk what's the reason ? but maybe the crew thought the ship is going to be bombed and one of the ship crew aimid his AA missels or something at the planes and the warning light on the plane lit "were being painted!" and they deployed countermessures ?

{I heard that a French base was bombed somewhat time ago by a military plane of a coutry they were in, I think it is caleld in english Ivory coat, correct me if i'm wrong so maybe the germans thought "here we go again" and painted the planes ?    if IAF firing missls is reasonable, so is this.

@Balschoiw

nice to see you replying in this thread again

@theavonlady

shishi hayom . .shabat shalom

[theavonlady 2]

So denying something makes it a must-believe ?

So your contrary report makes it a must believe? This is stupid.

Quote[/b] ]

I keep it with the reports from the crew onboard.

Planes fired 2 undirected shots when passing over the ship and deployed infrared countermeasures. This has been confirmed by german defense ministry and the crew. Investigations are on the way.

Spokesman of german defense ministry:

Quote[/b] ]"Ich kann bestätigen, dass es zu einem Zwischenfall gekommen ist."

Translation:

" I can confirm that this incident has happened"

Source? Couldn't find it at the German Defense Ministry.

Quote[/b] ]IDF is not credible in this as they denied the incident at all first and only admitted that it had happened after germany pressured on investigating the incident.

Source?

Quote[/b] ]Our defense miniter will go to Israel next week to have direct talks with you defense minister. Of course they will be talking about that incident as Perez already called Jung to express his regrets.

What regrets? What did Peretz say? Source?

Quote[/b] ]Germany has no interest in making up things, the IDF have in case the incident has taken place as described by naval command.

If the incident did take place, big deal. If it wasn't warranted, I'd like to see whoever was in charge get a severe whipping. And if it was warranted, I would like to understand why.

Still waiting for your sources.

Quote[/b] ]In fact this is the timeline:

- syrian trawler sends SOS after fire breaks out on ship

- BW ship Frankfurt

among other receives the SOS and onboard helicopter starts for SAR mission.

- 2 israeli fighters lift off from Ramad David lift of after israeli air

surveilance reported 2 airborne vehicles with course to israeli waters.

- german helicopter on the way to SAR mission was in Lebanon

waters and did not violate israelian borders at any time nor

flew over israeli waters.

I never saw anyone claim that they did. Did you?

Quote[/b] ]- Israeli F16 intercepted helicopter and after visual confirmation

of german helicopter turned back and during that maneuver

countermeasures were deployed and shots with cannon were

fired.

What for? And again, Source?

Anyway, this is where I must get off today.

[Donnervogel 0]

No again.

From the IDF's spokesperson:

The IDF denies firing at a German Navy vessel

Thursday 26/10/2006 09:18

IDF spokesperson wishes to clarify that, contrary to media reports, the IDF did not fire at a German Navy vessel.

Yesterday morning, October 24th 2006, a German Naval vessel and helicopter were identified off the cost of Rosh Hanikra. The helicopter had taken off from the ship without prior coordination with the IDF (as is standard). As a security measure IAF aircraft were diverted to the area in order to investigate.

The IDF stresses that at no point did IDF aircraft fire at the German forces.

No what? You don't even contradict with what I said.

I don't care what your spokesmen/women say about it I say the reports by the German navy do not claim that shot were fired at the ship. Sources stating shots were fired at the ship are clearly misinformed.

[SPQR 0]

I heard that a French base was bombed somewhat time ago by a military plane of a coutry they were in, I think it is caleld in english Ivory coat

[Off-topic mode ON]

November 6, 2004

[Off-topic mode OFF]

[Balschoiw 0]

Quote[/b] ]and that the germans reported that missels were fired also.

No, this has never been reported.

As for your source question. Here you go:

Zwischenfall mit israelischen Kampffliegern

Quote[/b] ]...

Berlin - Wie der Parlamentarische Staatssekretär im Verteidigungsministerium, Christian Schmidt (CSU), am Mittwoch vor dem Verteidigungsausschuss des Bundestages mitteilte, überflogen zwei israelische Kampfflugzeuge vom Typ F 16 ein deutsches Schiff und gaben zwei Schüsse in die Luft ab. Außerdem hätten die Kampfflieger Infrarot-Täuschkörper zur Raketenabwehr abgefeuert. Zu Datum und Ursachen des Zwischenfalls machte Schmidt keine Angaben.

Ein Sprecher des Einsatzführungskommandos in Potsdam bestätigte dem Tagesspiegel, der Vorfall habe sich am Dienstagmorgen gegen 10 Uhr ereignet....

The situation seems to be changing right now as the

initial report I just posted some minutes ago seems to be wrong.

Right now there are reports coming in that are pointing into a very different direction and make more sense in the context:

Israel rudert immer weiter zurück

Quote[/b] ]Die israelische Regierung korrigiert und präzisiert ihre bisherige Darstellung des Zwischenfalls vom vergangenen Dienstag: Der Überflug israelischer Kampfflugzeuge galt demnach einem Hightech-Aufklärungsschiff der deutschen Marine - und nicht einem Marinehubschrauber, der sich nicht richtig identifiziert habe. Zudem wird eingeräumt, dass sich der Zwischenfall rund 100 Kilometer von der libanesischen Küste entfernt ereignet hat.

Israel korrigiert bisherige Darstellung

Israelische Militärsprecher hatten noch gestern behauptet, die Geschehnisse hätten sich in unmittelbarer Nähe zur israelischen Küste ereignet. Auf Anfrage bestätigte der Sprecher des israelischen Außenministeriums Mark Regev der ARD in Tel Aviv, dass sich - von einer Ausnahme abgesehen - der Zwischenfall genauso abgespielt hat, wie vom Bundesverteidigungsministerium seit zwei Tagen verbreitet wird: Danach überflogen sechs israelische Maschinen von Typ F 16 das Flottendienstboot "Alster" der Bundesmarine in niedriger Höhe. Dass im Verlauf des Zwischenfalls aus israelischen Kampfflugzeugen geschossen worden ist, wurde von Regev nicht mehr dementiert. Wörtlich betonte er vielmehr: "Wir haben nicht auf das Schiff geschossen."

Eine Erklärung, die den deutschen Angaben nicht widersprechen muss - heißt es doch von deutscher Seite, dass die Jets nicht auf - sondern über das Aufklärungsschiff der Bundesmarine geschossen hätten. Deutschen Sicherheitskreisen zufolge ist es der Crew der "Alster" mit den bordeigenen, leistungsstarken elektro-optischen Geräten gelungen, sowohl den Überflug der israelischen Jets aufzuzeichnen, als auch den Abschuss von zwei Geschossen aus Bordkanonen. Zudem konnte auch der Abwurf von so genannten "Infrarot-Täuschkörpern" dokumentiert werden.

Kein Zweifel am Ablauf des Zwischenfalls

Am exakten Ablauf des Zwischenfalls gebe es daher keinen Zweifel mehr. Dies sei auch den israelischen Streitkräften bereits am Mittwochabend mitgeteilt worden. Das mit hochmodernen Ortungsgeräten ausgerüstete Schiff, das in Krisengebieten zur "strategischen Informationsgewinnung" eingesetzt wird, befand sich Dienstagmorgen am äußeren Rand des weitflächigen Seegebietes, das von dem deutschen Unifil-Verband kontrolliert werden soll. Die Aufgabe der "Alster" ist die nachrichtendienstliche Sicherung der deutschen Schiffe vor der Küste.

Verstimmung auf diplomatischer Ebene

Der Zwischenfall hat offenbar weitaus mehr diplomatischen Wirbel zwischen Berlin und Jerusalem ausgelöst, als bislang an die Öffentlichkeit gedrungen ist. Die israelische Regierung bemüht sich gegenwärtig, die offenbar große Verärgerung der Bundesregierung über den Zwischenfall auszuräumen. Vor allem die Tatsache, dass ein weit in internationalem Gewässer operierendes Aufklärungsschiff der Marine Ziel dieses Überflugs gewesen ist, habe für erhebliche Verstimmung gesorgt. Seit der Erklärung von Verteidigungsminister Amir Peretz, wonach nicht auf ein deutsches Schiff geschossen worden sei, hat die israelische Regierung keine weitere offizielle Erklärung in dieser Sache abgegeben. Es sei klar, so wird in Berlin vermutet, dass Israel eine andere Darstellung des Zwischenfalls öffentlich präsentieren müsse - eine Darstellung, die näher an der Realität liege.

Peretz kündigte unterdessen gegenüber EU-Chefdiplomat Javier Solana an, die Aufklärungsflüge der israelischen Luftwaffe über dem Libanon und vor dessen Küste fortzusetzen.

Babelfish translation:

Quote[/b] ]After the incident in front of the Lebanese coast the Israeli government continues to move away from its original explanation - and confirms instead the German representation. The procedure of the Israeli Air Force provided for substantial diplomatic detunings.

The Israeli government corrects and specifies its past representation of the incident of past Tuesday: The overflight/flyover of Israeli combat aircraft therefore applied for a Hightech recon ship of the German navy - and not a navy helicopter, which had not identified itself correctly. Besides it is granted that the incident of approximately 100 kilometers occurred far away from the Lebanese coast.

Israeli military speakers had stated still yesterday, the events would have occurred in direct proximity to the Israeli coast. On request the speaker of the Israeli State Department confirmed Marks of Regev of the pool of broadcasting corporations in Tel Aviv the fact that itself - apart from an exception - which incident played exactly the same, as by the Federal Ministry of Defense for two days is spread: Afterwards six Israeli machines of type F 16 flew over the fleet service boat "Alster" of the Federal Navy in low height. The fact that in the process of the incident from Israeli combat aircraft one shot was not no more disclaimed by Regev. Literally it stressed rather: "we did not shoot at the ship."

An explanation, those the German data not to contradict with - it means nevertheless from German side the fact that the jets not up - but over the clearing-up ship of the Federal Navy would have shot. According to German safety circuits the crew of the "Alster" with the onboard, high performance electrooptical devices succeeded in recording both the overflight/flyover of the Israeli jets and the firing of two projectiles from mounted guns. Besides also the release of "infrared decoys so mentioned" could be documented and recorded.

No doubt about the expiration of the incident

At the accurate operational sequence of the incident give it therefore no more doubt. This was already communicated also to Israeli armed forces at Wednesday evening. The ship, which is used in crisis areas to the "strategic acquisition of information", equipped with ultramodern datum locators, was Tuesday mornings at the outside edge of the far-laminar sea-area, which was to be controlled by the German Unifil federation. The task of the "Alster" is the intelligence safety device of the German ships before the coast.

Detuning on diplomatic level

The incident released obviously by far more diplomatic eddy between Berlin and Jerusalem, when so far to the public penetrated. The Israeli government strives at present to eliminate obviously large annoying of the Federal Government about the incident. Above all the fact that a recon ship of the navy operating far in international waters was a goal of this overflight/flyover, provided for substantial detuning. Since the explanation of Secretary of Defense Amir Peretz, according to which at a German ship one did not shoot, delivered the Israeli government no further official explanation in this thing. It is clear, then in Berlin it is assumed that Israel another representation of the incident must present publicly - a representation, which is more near because of the reality. Peretz announced meanwhile opposite European Union chief diplomat Javier Solana to continue the clearing-up flights of the Israeli Air Force over Lebanon and before its coast.

So now we have the context of that "incident".

Shame on you IDF.

[Nemesis6 0]

Balschoiw, being a German, you, for the time being, shouldn't say shame on anyone. Yes, I'm referring to that tiny incident.

[EiZei 0]

Balschoiw, being a German, you, for the time being, shouldn't say shame on anyone. Yes, I'm referring to that tiny incident.

Oh dear god..

[mp_phonix 0]

Balschoiw, being a German, you, for the time being, shouldn't say shame on anyone. Yes, I'm referring to that tiny incident.

Sorry I just had to comment this :

[SPQR 0]

Well, that reminds me too a short story about Israeli SF taken in photo, pausing near palestinian bodies as if they were drunken hunters having killed rabbits, while thinking they'd killed elephants..

[mp_phonix 0]

Well, that reminds me too a short story about Israeli SF taken in photo, pausing near palestinian bodies as if they were drunken hunters having killed rabbits, while thinking they'd killed elephants..  

What's wrong with doing that to filthy terrorists ?

Quote[/b] ]while thinking they'd killed elephants

hmm . .I guess France probably killing hundreds of thouse everyday ?

[-ZG-BUZZARD 0]

Balschoiw, being a German, you, for the time being, shouldn't say shame on anyone. Yes, I'm referring to that tiny incident.

See, Avon Lady? It's just comments like these that made me jump to the conclusions you were wondering what I was getting at in my post...

Some people I guess will be stuck in the past forever...

As sad as it may be, if only I could predict the lottery as well as I could predict your reactions, I'd be a friggin' millionaire!!!

[GoOB 0]

Well, that reminds me too a short story about Israeli SF taken in photo, pausing near palestinian bodies as if they were drunken hunters having killed rabbits, while thinking they'd killed elephants..

What's wrong with doing that to filthy terrorists ?

You make me sick.

[Daniel 0]

Quote[/b] ]As sad as it may be, if only I could predict the lottery as well as I could predict your reactions, I'd be a friggin' millionaire!!!

Damn straight.