Jump to content
Sign in to follow this  
Warin

The Middle East part 2

Recommended Posts

Fifty dead civilians . .that never happende. What did happend is 15 dead civilians when Israel droped a 1 ton bomb on a hamas convoy.

You're saying there has only ever been one incident then?

Quote[/b] ]Really ? what other country have rutine terror attacks exept Iraq ? and no im not talking about the londond bombins, where that happend only once !

Afghanistan

Algeria

Bangladesh

Burma

Columbia

Egypt

France

Guinea

India

Indonesia

Iraq

Ivory Coast

Kyrjyzstan

Liberia

Lybia

Nigeria

Palestine

Peru

Philippines

Russia

Spain

Sudan

Tajikstan

Thailand

Turkey

UK

Venezuela

Do I need to add more?

London has been bombed many more times than once. But well done for trying.

Quote[/b] ]Proffesional ? Army ?

1.) What army would that be ?

Not the Army. There are enough clues. Figure it out.

Quote[/b] ]2.) How many years did you serve ?

Over 9 years so far, plus 2 years as a cadet. And you?

Quote[/b] ]3.) IF you know what accidental shooting is and whats is not, please tell me where did you had you COMBAT tour ?

and plz dont tell me its the US/UK army cuz they do sometimes kill civilians in Iraq [accidently of course]

I didn't mention accidental killing or collateral damage. Accidental shooting does not exist. It is impossible to accidentally take a weapon, insert a loaded magazine, cock the weapon, release the safety catch, point the weapon at someone and pull the trigger.

But to answer your previous question without compromising PERSEC/OPSEC:

Afghanistan, Iraq, Kosovo, Sierra Leone. Among others.

Holy crap... So by your definition, he has not:

A: Called the Holocaust a "myth"

B: Called for the destruction of Israel

That's something he has never done, huh? Jeez...

Using the word 'myth' in the same sentence as 'holocaust' does not mean he called the Jewish holocaust a myth.

He also has not called for the destruction of Israel.

I believe we have had the conversation about quality of quotes before.

Quote[/b] ]Wrong.

Not at all, but feel free to try to prove me wrong.

*EDIT*Missed a word out*

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Fifty dead civilians . .that never happende. What did happend is 15 dead civilians when Israel droped a 1 ton bomb on a hamas convoy.

You're saying there has only ever been one incident then?

Quote[/b] ]Really ? what other country have rutine terror attacks exept Iraq ? and no im not talking about the londond bombins, where that happend only once !

Afghanistan

Algeria

Bangladesh

Burma

Columbia

Egypt

France

Guinea

India

Indonesia

Iraq

Ivory Coast

Kyrjyzstan

Liberia

Lybia

Nigeria

Palestine

Peru

Philippines

Russia

Spain

Sudan

Tajikstan

Thailand

Turkey

UK

Venezuela

Do I need to add more?

London has been bombed many more times than once. But well done for trying.

Quote[/b] ]Proffesional ? Army ?

1.) What army would that be ?

Not the Army. There are enough clues. Figure it out.

Ok, sry for disrespecting you.

You said more then one time, when that happened ? And I mean terror attacks no the WW2 bombings.

and I also meant  that freqquently terror atacks are happening, not like 1 time in 1/2 - 1 year.  .

Why did you bothered to give all the list ? you saying that in all of this list bombing happends every month ? REaaly ?! I didn't know . .

and why are you saying "Fo figure it out". what, it's illegal to tell in what army are you serving ? {or your probablyy just making it all up}

9 years. 9 years in Combat Duty or nine years in the armory ? {not that I disrespect any role in that army, it's just for comparsion [hope i speld it right]}

15 dead civilians in one bombing, Yes, 15 dead in 1 time that happend only once, and they were time that innocent were injured&killed, more then once. So wait a minute, what are you all saying, we can't kill terrorist leaders becuase sometimes] it can hit innocent guys ?

You saying that IDF are murders, so why the terrorist arnt going and kill them bu they go into the country and kill innocent people ? they are the murderers, and you dare to call them freedom fighters !

the only place that have frequent bombings is : Iraq,Israel {don't call it phalastine ! it's inssulting  me !} and Afghanistan.

frequent i mean every 1/2 - 1 month, even everyday, not one time per year. that dosn't count !

about accidental shooting, yes i meant accidental killings, I know that a gun can't fire itself{I shout an M16 couple of times}, I'm not that stupid. Sry for the misunderstanding.

And i'm not old enought to go to the army yet. I'm only 16.8. I join in about 2 and half years from now

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Ok, sry for disrespecting you.

You said more then one time, when that happened ? And I mean terror attacks no the WW2 bombings.

London and the rest of the UK has been attacked regularly by Northern Irish terrorists, the first bombing on London occuring in 1939. The attacks were sufficient enough to necessitate the removal of rubbish bins from tube stations and the centre of London. Unattended luggage in a public place, especially train stations etc., is treated as a potential bomb and is liable to be destroyed. The 7/7 bombings were followed by another attempt on 21/7 but the explosives had deteriorated.

Quote[/b] ]and I also meant  that freqquently terror atacks are happening, not like 1 time in 1/2 - 1 year.  .

Why did you bothered to give all the list ? you saying that in all of this list bombing happends every month ? REaaly ?! I didn't know . .

I gave a list because you asked.

There are regular bombings/shootings/kidnappings/assasinations by terrorist organisations. Click and scroll up for a list of the widely reported terrorist incidents.

30,000 people have been killed by the SL since the 1960s. Northern Irish terrorists are responsible for over 14,500 bombings and 35,000 shootings alone in 25 years. There are other major organisations, including: LTTE; GIA; ETA; HUM; LT; ELN; AUC and many others. I believe FARC is the most active group in the World and one of Ivory Coast's 6 groups is the largest..

Quote[/b] ]and why are you saying "Fo figure it out". what, it's illegal to tell in what army are you serving ? {or your probablyy just making it all up}

Because if you have any idea what you are talking about it is blindingly obvious. If you don't it will help your deductive skills to figure it out.

Quote[/b] ]9 years. 9 years in Combat Duty or nine years in the armory ? {not that I disrespect any role in that army, it's just for comparsion [hope i speld it right]}

Front-line, not support.

Quote[/b] ]15 dead civilians in one bombing, Yes, 15 dead in 1 time that happend only once, and they were time that innocent were injured&killed, more then once. So wait a minute, what are you all saying, we can't kill terrorist leaders becuase sometimes] it can hit innocent guys ?

Large numbers of civilian dead by the IDF happens on a regular basis. I don't believe anyone here is saying don't kill terrorists. What people are saying is take the action that will cause the least number of civilian casualties on either side. Sometimes that means taking no action and waiting for another opportunity. The IDF take the attitude of kill them now whatever the cost. And captured is better than killed, there is more intelligence available from a live prisoner than a dead body.

Quote[/b] ]You saying that IDF are murders, so why the terrorist arnt going and kill them bu they go into the country and kill innocent people ?

They don't have artillery, air support or armour. How would you suggest they engage a military that does? They are using the tactics and equipment at their disposal.

Quote[/b] ]they are the murderers, and you dare to call them freedom fighters !

Where did I do that then? I'll give you a bazillion shekels if you can show it to me.

Quote[/b] ]the only place that have frequent bombings is : Iraq,Israel {don't call it phalastine ! it's inssulting  me !} and Afghanistan.

frequent i mean every 1/2 - 1 month, even everyday, not one time per year. that dosn't count !

Terrorist attacks occur in Palestine as well as Israel. There are even recognised Israeli terrorist organisations. The truth doesn't really care if you are insulted by the existence of Palestine. And you're wrong anyway.

Quote[/b] ]And i'm not old enought to go to the army yet. I'm only 16.8. I join in about 2 and half years from now

Well just remember to remain fair and disciplined when you do, when your uniform is put on your emotions are taken off. That way, everyone is safer, including you.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

feel free to try to prove me wrong.

It amazes me that you knew nothing about this. It was basically the catalyst for people starting to realize that Iran's new dictator might not be good for them afterall...

Israel should be wiped off map, says Iran's president

Now, let's take a more in-depth look on the guy's relations with Israel and the Jewish people as a whole - Click Here.

But let's look away from his vile words for a moment, and take a look at the other controversies surrounding him.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

feel free to try to prove me wrong.

It amazes me that you knew nothing about this. It was basically the catalyst for people starting to realize that Iran's new dictator might not be good for them afterall...

Israel should be wiped off map, says Iran's president

I thought you might pull that one out.

You do realise that when that story first broke, the world's media was using MEMRI's deliberate mis-translation not the correct ISNA translation, and that the 'wiped off the map' quote was one of MEMRI's more - I was going to be polite there, but I've changed my mind. It was a lie, a big fat juicy lie, he never said anything like that. MEMRI added that phrase when they edited their first translation.

What he actually did was quote the late Ayatollah Khomeini in a much longer speech. I've highlighted the correct literal translation of 'wiped off the map':

They [ask]: 'Is it possible for us to witness a world without America and Zionism?' But you had best know that this slogan and this goal are attainable, and surely can be achieved. "'When the dear Imam [Khomeini] said that [the Shah's] regime must go, and that we demand a world without dependent governments, many people who claimed to have political and other knowledge [asked], 'Is it possible [that the Shah's regime can be toppled]?' That day, when Imam [Khomeini] began his movement, all the powers supported [the Shah's] corrupt regime and said it was not possible. However, our nation stood firm, and by now we have, for 27 years, been living without a government dependent on America. Imam [Khomeni] said: 'The rule of the East [u.S.S.R.] and of the West [u.S.] should be ended.' But the weak people who saw only the tiny world near them did not believe it. Nobody believed that we would one day witness the collapse of the Eastern Imperialism [i.e. the U.S.S.R], and said it was an iron regime. But in our short lifetime we have witnessed how this regime collapsed in such a way that we must look for it in libraries, and we can find no literature about it. Imam [Khomeini] said that Saddam [Hussein] must go, and that he would be humiliated in a way that was unprecedented. And what do you see today? A man who, 10 years ago, spoke as proudly as if he would live for eternity is today chained by the feet, and is now being tried in his own country. Imam [Khomeini] said: 'This regime that is occupying Qods [Jerusalem] must vanish from the arena of times.' This sentence is very wise. The issue of Palestine is not an issue on which we can compromise. Is it possible that a front allows another front to arise in its heart? This means defeat, and he who accepts the existence of this regime in fact signs the defeat of the Islamic world. In his battle against the World of Arrogance, our dear Imam [Khomeini] set the regime occupying Qods [Jerusalem] as the target of his fight. I have no doubt that the new movement taking place in our dear Palestine is a spiritual movement which is spanning the entire Islamic world and which will soon remove this stain of disgrace from the Islamic world"

He was talking about how the falls of the Shah, the USSR, and Saddam Hussein were predicted by the Ayatollah and that they have happened, therefore the Ayatollah's prophecy of the fall of Israel will happen. It's a logical fallacy, but it is not a threat to Israel by any stretch of the imagination. The mis-quote wasn't even his to begin with.

Are you going to 'prove' that he has denied the Jewish holocaust too?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

@scary

First of all, sry if I disrespected you in any way. I do know that palestine exist I just thought you called all of Israel phalastine.

About joining the army, believe me , I know that our soldier do wrong sometimes, and I don't like it, but it's not fair to call everybodfy murderers. I don't call the U.S. Army murdereds although they sometimes kill civilians.

Murder is when you dilebertly kill some one. IDF is not thinking "lats pop some civilians while were at it".

And I will "keep it fair" believe me . . . wink_o.gif

I don't hate phalstatinians, and I do want peace. for example, im not right-wing or left wing, but I do think that the settelments should be evacuated, but I don't think we should give them Jerusalem. It's ours to !

About Ahmajajin or whatever he is called. He did sayed that the holocost is a jewish cinspiracy and called to the distruction of the jews. I saw it myself on the news {him speaking}.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Fifty dead civilians . .that never happende.

Never say never.   wink_o.gif

Over 100 died in the Qana Shelling of 1996. Around 60 died in the Qibya Massacre back in 1953. However, accidents of such size are extremely rare indeed.  The Qibya raid probably became far more famous for who led it than its deathtoll.  Suffice it to say that what IDF accidents lack in size they make up for in quantity.

For instance, there's the latest accident that has killed 7 Palestinians having a picnic on a beach in Gaza.

Quote[/b] ]The shells that hit Beit Lahia beach were the latest of more than 6,000 fired into the Gaza Strip by Israel over the past two months.

...

Israel said it has fired thousands of artillery shells into the Gaza Strip in response to armed Palestinian groups such as Islamic Jihad firing hundreds of homemade rockets into Israel. Israeli shells have killed about 15 civilians this year, including five children. The Palestinian rockets have not claimed any lives but have wounded several Israelis.

Human rights groups have described the persistent Israeli shelling as a form of collective punishment, particularly after the military changed its rules to allow shells to explode within 100 metres of a built-up area.

So it would seem that the IDF has been doing better at killing Palestinians by accident than the Palestinians have at killing Israelis deliberately.   confused_o.gif

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest Ti0n3r

Damn. They must have thought that Palestinian Islamic Jihad had a barbeque on the beach icon_rolleyes.gif

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

So what are we supposed to do just lay back and let the shoot qasams {the rockets} on us untill it kills somebody ?

About that incicent that was yesterday it is unforinate and the IDF opened an invastigation, because the boats should have shoot towards the firing areas and no the beach

btw,

I live 9km north to gazza strip. I hear the shelling, and yesterday, it was bigger noice, probably because the missle boats joined in

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Humans Rights Watch Admits unable to contradict IDF

First they blamed Israel. Then they tried backing their hasty conclusion up, and now they have been proven wrong.

By the way, about the Qana shelling - I suppose you have no idea that Hizballah fired from a populated area, and when the civilians fled to the U.N. compound, Hizballah followed them and set up your launchers in the vicinity, right? Some people... banghead.gif

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
By the way, about the Qana shelling - I suppose you have no idea that Hizballah fired from a populated area, and when the civilians fled to the U.N. compound, Hizballah followed them and set up your launchers in the vicinity, right? Some people...  banghead.gif

According to this source:

Quote[/b] ]Israel immediately expressed regret for the loss of innocent lives, saying that the Hezbollah position and not the UN compound was the intended target of the shelling, and that the compound was hit "due to incorrect targeting based on erroneous data."

Are you saying this is wrong?  If not, then WTF are you going on about this time?   confused_o.gif

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
According to this source:
Quote[/b] ]Israel immediately expressed regret for the loss of innocent lives, saying that the Hezbollah position and not the UN compound was the intended target of the shelling, and that the compound was hit "due to incorrect targeting based on erroneous data."

Are you saying this is wrong?  If not, then WTF are you going on about this time?   confused_o.gif

Nothing like full context:

Quote[/b] ]Jerusalem, 9 May 1996

RESPONSE TO UN SECRETARY'S REPORT ON KANA INCIDENT

(Communicated by Foreign Ministry Spokesman)

1. Israel categorically rejects the findings of the UN report concerning the incident at Kana.

2. Israel profoundly regrets the loss of human life at Kana and has thoroughly investigated this tragic incident which was caused, first and foremost, by the firing of Katyusha rockets and mortars by Hizbullah from a location in close proximity to the UN position.

We reiterate that the IDF had no intention whatsoever of firing on the UN position at Kana. Our investigation has shown that the UN position was hit by artillery fire due to incorrect targeting based on erroneous data.

The IAF drone shown on videotape did not reach the area until after the UN position was hit and was not an operational component in the targeting of Israeli artillery fire in the area.

3. It is difficult to understand and highly regrettable that this report does not condemn Hizbullah for the cynical use of civilians as a shield for its gunmen, nor does it continue any condemnation of Hizbullah's use of areas contiguous or in close proximity to UN positions for launching attacks upon Israel.

4. This inaccurate and one sided report is misleading, runs contrary to the stated desire of the UN to play a more active role in the Middle East peace process and undermines its ability to do so.

Israel hopes that the understanding reached between the various sides will engender the calm and stability necessary to engage the parties concerned in peace negotiations which are the only way to promote peace and security between Israel and Lebanon.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
According to this source:
Quote[/b] ]Israel immediately expressed regret for the loss of innocent lives, saying that the Hezbollah position and not the UN compound was the intended target of the shelling, and that the compound was hit <span style='font-size:13pt;line-height:100%'>"due to incorrect targeting based on erroneous data."</span>

Are you saying this is wrong?  If not, then WTF are you going on about this time?   confused_o.gif

Nothing like full context:

[blah... blah... blah... ]

Nothing like ignoring the question (on behalf of Nemesis6).

Unless it was Hizbullah that provided the erroneos data which Israel blamed for the incorrect targeting then please stop trying to blame the tragedy on others.  Nobody is saying mistakes don't happen in conflicts, but constantly blaming your errors on your enemy does nothing to prevent such accidents from happening again and again and again...

In fact, that accident occurred when Hizbullah had been attacking from approximately 300 meters from the UN base.  These days, the IDF continues to target open areas up to 100 meters from populated areas in Gaza, creating plenty of fresh opportunities to express more of its sincerest regrets.  :vomit:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[blah... blah... blah... ]

Stop driveling.

Quote[/b] ]Unless it was Hizbullah that provided the erroneos data which Israel blamed for the incorrect targetting then please stop trying to blame the tragedy on others.

Nobody is saying mistakes don't happen in conflicts, but constantly blaming your errors on your enemy does nothing to prevent such accidents from happening again and again and again...

In fact, that accident occurred when Hizbullah had been attacking from approximately 300 meters from the UN base.  These days, the IDF continues to target open areas within 100 meters of populated areas in Gaza, creating plenty of fresh opportunities to express more of its sincerest regrets.  :vomit:

Whine away!

Ignore the Arab terrorist organizations, who use civilian cover to prepare and carry out their attacks.

Typical.

"In contrast, our people and our nation's willingness to sacrifice their blood, souls, children, fathers, and families for the sake of the nation's honor, life, and happiness has always been one of our nation's strengths."

- Hizbullah secretary-general Sheikh Hassan Nasrallah, which aired on Al-Manar TV on May 23, 2006.

More power to ya, if that's what you want.

:spit:

UPDATE:

Quote[/b] ]Stop Apologizing for Defending Ourselves

By Isi Leibler   June 21, 2006

What a tragic missed opportunity. Over the past month the global media focused on Ehud Olmert as he met heads of state in Washington, London, Paris, Cairo and Amman on his maiden Prime Ministerial visit. It was a perfect opportunity for our eloquent Prime Minister to depict the nightmarish life that Israeli citizens in Sderot and the Western Negev were undergoing as their schools, hospitals, homes and infrastructure faced daily missile barrages from their Palestinian neighbors.

This should have been the ideal setting for Olmert to proclaim to the world that, like any other state, Israel would no longer tolerate its citizens being targeted in this manner and that those facilitating the missile attacks against Israeli women and children would bear the responsibility for Palestinian civilians harmed in the course of our legitimate efforts to defend ourselves.

Alas, instead of this, the media concentrated almost exclusively on our Prime Minister's futile efforts to persuade heads of state to endorse his realignment program.

It is a disgrace that until recently the government of Israel has been understating the Kassam rocket as a primitive missile with limited range and low accuracy. By doing so it was implicitly conditioning us to come to terms with these attacks.

Until now the casualty toll has been miraculously low. But there have already been fatalities and it is obscene to delay more drastic remedial action for the inevitable disaster of a rocket exploding on a school, movie theatre, or major infrastructure facility. International public opinion is tremendously important, but it must never be subordinated to the loss of life of innocent civilians.

If the status quo remains, communities like Sderot will be transformed into ghost towns. Besides, the current primitive rockets are already being upgraded to more advanced models and the Iranians have been flooding Gaza with more sophisticated missiles including Katyusha rockets which will enable more precise targeting and travel greater distances, threatening our major cities.

In any normal country missile launches on civilian population centers would automatically represent a declaration of war. The longer we delay a tough remedial response, the more the Palestinians acclimatize the international community into accepting rocket attacks on Israeli civilians as routine. Marking time until a disaster forces us to act, merely ensures an even more difficult future confrontation with the international community.

We witnessed this in recent days when Palestinian civilians were killed, allegedly by an errant shell from our artillery. The IDF conclusively demonstrated that Israel was not responsible and that in all likelihood the Palestinian casualties originated from explosives flowing into Gaza after the Israeli withdrawal.

But despite this, other than the Americans, the standard one-sided condemnations flowed from the entire world. In what can truly be described as a classic example of Orwellian double talk, Kofi Annan had the gall to condemn Israel for breaching international law by "targeting civilians". With Gallic hypocrisy the French deplored the "disproportionate" response of the Israelis. The Russians, whose enlightened responses to Chechen terrorism are well known, also complained of a "disproportionate" response.

None of the international chorus of bleeding hearts have expressed moral outrage against Palestinians launching missiles against Israeli civilians. Instead they related to "cycles of violence", implying moral equivalency by failing to distinguish between those targeting innocent women and children and those seeking to defend themselves. None noted the extraordinary efforts of the IDF to minimize civilian casualties, in contrast to the Palestinians who deliberately targeted civilians. Many Israelis lie in military cemeteries because (even more so than the Americans, not to mention the Russians and the French) the IDF frequently opts not to employ its superior fire power out of concern for civilians. In addition none of the critics noted that the vast majority of Israelis are genuinely distressed when innocent Palestinians are inadvertently harmed, whilst the Palestinians invariably erupt into spontaneous street celebrations every time their ghouls successfully maim and kill Israeli civilians.

It is surely time to call a spade a spade. No sovereign state in the world would conceivably tolerate a neighbor whose leaders refuse to inhibit terrorists operating under their jurisdiction from launching missiles at their civilians. Now unlike their PA predecessors, Hamas leaders don?t even bother speaking with a forked tongue. They proudly proclaim that their intention is to launch attacks to kill our citizens and destroy us.

Setting aside the effective targeted assassinations which hitherto exempted Hamas leaders, our government exacerbated the situation by issuing hollow threats which were never implemented. Instead, vacant buildings and empty fields were bombed -- "punitive" responses that terrorists regarded as a joke. Minister of Defense, Amir Peretz after panicking and halting all artillery bombardments, has now explicitly warned that the Palestinians would face devastation unless they reined in the Kassam attacks. If this is not implemented whatever remains of our diminished deterrent capacity will totally evaporate.

The time is now overdue for the Israeli government to bite the bullet. Ehud Olmert must belatedly tell the world that Israel will continue making every effort to minimize civilian casualties. But he must proclaim that if the terrorists continue callously disregarding the lives of their kinsmen by exploiting them as human shields, storing weapons in hospitals and schools, and operating from heavily populated areas, they will be responsible for the escalation in civilian casualties.

We realize that when we act the world will not sympathize because they will watch their TV screens and see the horror and devastation that war inflicts on everyone. Our spokesmen must therefore stop apologizing, direct the blame for any civilian casualties on those indulging in terror acts and expose the double standards and hypocrisy of our critics.

As Jews we pride ourselves as being a compassionate people genuinely saddened with the suffering of innocent non combatants. But if the Palestinians continue in this manner, the point must be reached where Israel will be obliged to sever its remaining links with them.

It is bizarre to expect us to continue providing water and electricity to neighbors who proclaim that their objective is to destroy us and rain rockets on our civilians. As a preliminary step in this direction Prime Minister Olmert should inform the Palestinians that from now, every time a Kassam rocket or other missile is launched against Israeli citizens, we will turn off the electricity and water from Gaza for three hours. That will surely be more effective than bombing empty fields and buildings.

Unless our oft stated concern for the sanctity of human life is intended to exclude our own people, the time for standing by with folded hands is over.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Whine away!

Ignore the Arab terrorist organizations, who use civilian cover to prepare and carry out their attacks.

Typical.

You have again addressed my simple question about the IDF's <span style='font-size:17pt;line-height:100%'>incorrect targeting based on erroneous data*</span> with all the accuracy of an Israeli artillery unit.  And of course, you are regretfully missing the point entirely by accident aren't you?

Tips on how to say nothing from Avon's unwritten handbook for Israeli spokespersons:

1.  "That's a good question, but the real question is..."

2.  "Perhaps you should be asking the terrorists that question."

3.  "Everytime I hear a question like that I think of my grandmother/mother/aunt/sister who perished in the Holocaust."

4.  "I don't think it would be appropriate for me to comment on that."

5.  Your question completely ignores the fact that [start miscellaneous tirade on innocent victims of suicide attacks]...

etc... etc... etc...  :vomit:

* Unfortunately, font size 6 wasn't big enough for you to see it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Maybe it was too difficult for you to understand.

Quoting from Israel's response, which I posted in full above and which Wikipedia's article is selective about:

Israel profoundly regrets the loss of human life at Kana and has thoroughly investigated this tragic incident which was caused, first and foremost, by the firing of Katyusha rockets and mortars by Hizbullah from a location in close proximity to the UN position.

Had Hizbalah not fired near the cover of a non-military target, say from the middle of a secluded forest instead, the chances of any unarmed casualties would have been much closer to nill.

But like I said, we're fed up with apologizing. welcome.gif

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
But like I said, we're fed up with apologizing.

Too bad you are not equally fed up with causing accidents.

Here's the official UN report on the Qana shelling.

Bottom line:

Quote[/b] ]It will be noted that the additional explanations provided by General Harel address the question why the Israeli forces fired at a target close to a United Nations compound. They do not address the first four of my findings. I also note that the Israeli forces have not yet provided details concerning the presence of helicopters in the Qana area, a question I first raised on 21 April. As I stated in my report, it is unlikely that gross technical and/or procedural errors led to the shelling of the United Nations compound. However, it cannot be ruled out completely.

So, there's not much sense in apologising for Qana when the UN remains convinced that you most likely targeted their compound intentionally.  confused_o.gif

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
However, it cannot be ruled out completely.

You know, Avon just said that Israel rejects the U.N's findings on this incident, right? So what the U.N. thinks is irrelevant because it's a mouthpiece for dictatorships and pro-European agendas.

But of course the U.N. is a neutral third party with only the best interests of both parties in mind, right? I mean the U.N. would never purposely turn a blind eye to Hizballah who want to kidnap Israeli soldiers. And they would curtainly not deny that the incident had been videotaped. And they would curtainly not first confirm its existance when pressured. And I know for a fact that it would never, ever edit the video to blur out the faces of the terrorists and establish "viewing conditions".

For some reason, I think Sgt. Adi Avitan, Staff Sgt. Benyamin Avraham and Staff Sgt. Omar Sawaid would disagree with the above. You see, they're dead. They're just more blood on the hands of the U.N..

Now, surely this is an isolated incident, right?

RIGHT?

Wrong.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

So Hizbullah fires on Israeli forces.  Israeli forces fire back at Hizbullah who happens to be hiding with a bunch of civilians.  Some of the civilians are killed, and everybody's blaming Israel for this?

Kind of hard to tell who's to blame, not that it's really important anyway.  That's a very reprehensible act on Hizbullah's part.  But it's also very irresponsible on Israel's part.  I guess the blame could be divided between both of them.  Israel should of just gotten back at Hizbullah some other day, and Hizbullah definately shouldn't of gone hiding with a bunch of civilians.

Sort of half and half if you ask me.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

FSPilot got it right. finally somebody understands.

You see its the Hizballah tactics and all of the terror organizations to hide in populated areas and shoot stuff {katyushas, mortatrs, qasams].

Israel is parlt blame but it does have the right to defend itself.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
That's a very reprehensible act on Hizbullah's part.  But it's also very irresponsible on Israel's part.  I guess the blame could be divided between both of them.  Israel should of just gotten back at Hizbullah some other day, and Hizbullah definately shouldn't of gone hiding with a bunch of civilians.

Sort of half and half if you ask me.

I understand what you're saying, but it's never a good idea to compare the actions of a terrorist organisation like Hizbullah with those of a nation like Israel.  On this occasion Hizbullah had been attacking an IDF patrol in S. Lebanon, but on any other day they might have been dropping rockets and mortars on civilian populations in N. Israel.  Regardless of who started the whole conflict historically, nobody can blame Israel for retaliating against terrorists.

However, blaming Hizbullah for having to retaliate is entirely different than blaming Hizbullah for how you retaliate.  Otherwise, Israel could simply nuke all of S. Lebenon and blame it on Hizbullah.

Or better still, we could all think like Nemesis6 and blame everything bad on any number of the UN's anti-Israel conspiracies. icon_rolleyes.gif

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I understand what you're saying, but it's never a good idea to compare the actions of a terrorist organisation like Hizbullah with those of a nation like Israel.  On this occasion Hizbullah had been attacking an IDF patrol in S. Lebanon, but on any other day they might have been dropping rockets and mortars on civilian populations in N. Israel.  Regardless of who started the whole conflict historically, nobody can blame Israel for retaliating against terrorists.

However, blaming Hizbullah for having to retaliate is entirely different than blaming Hizbullah for how you retaliate.  Otherwise, Israel could simply nuke all of S. Lebenon and blame it on Hizbullah.

I wasn't trying to compare them, just trying to judge them equally.  Kind of hard to do when they're playing by different rules though.  Hizbullah wants to be treated like they're an army in a war, they're really just a band of terrorists with lots of explosives and kids to strap them to.

But I agree, the Israeli forces could definately of waited for another, safer, opportunity to strike, or maybe done something less dangerous.

On the other hand, it's certainly not my place to judge the combat actions of a seasoned force like the Israelis.  Both are partially at fault in the end.  It was an unfortunate incident and hopefully the Israelis will learn from it.  Unfortunately Hizbullah (wasn't is hezbollah a while ago?) will probably see how much flak the Israelis will get for this and try to instigate a repeat incident.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

<span style='font-size:11pt;line-height:100%'>On 21 June in the New York Times:</span>

Quote[/b] ]A Palestinian woman was killed today in Gaza after a pair of Israeli missiles veered off target, one of them slamming into a house. It was the latest in a series of botched air strikes that have killed a dozen Palestinian civilians in the last eight days.

The strike, which also injured a reported 13 people in the southern town of Khan Yunis, came a day after another strike killed three Palestinian children...

<span style='font-size:11pt;line-height:100%'>On 21 June in this thread:</span>

But like I said, we're fed up with apologizing.

icon_rolleyes.gif

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Does Hizbullah apologize for intentionally blowing up a cafe full of civilians?  They do it so much they must of been fed up with apologizing for it a long time ago.

Why don't some people care when Hizbullah targets civilians, but they throw a fit when Israel accidentally kills/injures civilians while trying to attack Hizbullah?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Or better still, we could all think like Nemesis6 and blame everything bad on any number of the UN's anti-Israel conspiracies. icon_rolleyes.gif

You're just making this shit up as you go along, aren't you? If someone is against the U.N's pan-European we-know-better-than-you-do agenda, they are crazy conspiracy nuts, right? And I'd bet you read nothing of what I wrote the last time. It isn't even a debate with you, if someone disagrees, they're, as I said, crazy. That's what I get from your post(s) anyway.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Please sign in to comment

You will be able to leave a comment after signing in



Sign In Now
Sign in to follow this  

×