Decisive Killing Machines

[nx_illusion 0]

Omg!!

[aviel 0]

wow. absolutly wordless

[krycek 349]

So, it's true or it was a bad joke from Jaguar?

[TermiPete 0]

Looks real enough to me after reading that sad sad thread.

Way too many passionate and opinionated people who don't think before they post.

I guess when we all pretend to be people with funny little names ('TermiPete'?) and type messages with funny little faces into this system (and others!) and we are caught up in the importance and significance of our own ideas and contributions (making material used by the New Zealand Army), things ARE going to get out of hand frequently.

I guess everyone's perspective and maturity is different - I'm an old geezer at 32 and run a 15-person business and have 2 little kids so I HAVE to  be grown up! (not necessarily out of choice but it has become habitual now).

I would appeal to Jaguar to not take things to heart so much. For every undeserving person there will be 100 who will enjoy your creation and maybe 10 of them will actually thank you for it. That's still 10 to 1!!

The road of an add-on maker is hard and VERY time-consuming but ultimately you do it to satisfy your own creative urges, and to make a contribution to something greater and bigger than yourself.

To me the most disheartening thing for add-on makers should not be the bickering and overly blunt criticism/review that happens all too frequently, but the fact that the greatest proportion of OFP users never really use what you create other than to have a quick play with 'today's new toys'. So it really must be to satisfy yourself.

I hope Jaguar finishes his projects and that OFP and VBS users will get the chance to enjoy his wonderful creations. I personally was looking forward to the ADATS.

Anyway, I'm blethering!

TP out

[aviel 0]

Quote[/b] ]Way too many passionate and opinonated people who don't think before they post.

rofl nice words bro!!!

i had the exact same thing on my mind

[Messiah 2]

meh, im with jaguar on this one, he's spending his free time making addons for you lot.. to be flamed and bashed for owning something out of choice is hardly a community spirit... i dont see you flaming all the owners of HL2 etc?

he can go get paid to make addons for VBS1, so why not...

although, to be honest, its all spiralled out of control... from a simple,ill judged perhaps, comment like 1-0, we have this...

christ guys, grow up.

[krycek 349]

If it's true than TermiPete is right.Jaguar don't you think it's a little extreme to cancel your projects for Ofp just because you had an dissagrement with a few people??You know,no offence but sometimes I get the idea that if someone bashes an add-on maker or insult him etc. then he thinks all the community is like that.Something like "hey these 3 guys bashed my work,doesn't matter that maybe 200 people or more still love my add-ons".

Perhaps same thing happened with other team mods but seriously guys,don't think that everyone who downloads your add-ons are doing that just to bash your work.Even if I don't post often I visit the boards daily(from 2002 actually) just to see what new add-ons people have created and even if I don't make posts like "you're work is great etc" it doesn't mean I don't appreciate every add-on I can get my hands on it.After all it's the only game that after so many years I'm playing it with joy like in the first day,90% because the talented people who make add-ons for it and looking ways to improve it.

No offence to VBS1 users,I have nothing with them and if I had the money I would have bought VBS1 but I think BIS made a huge mistake releasing it to the public because the community is in two pieces right now,maybe we had a lot more add-ons for Ofp if it weren't VBS,but the hell with it,I can live with that but I'm really sorry that I can't enjoy the add-ons made by team mods that went to VBS.The biggest reason if I had the cash to buy VBS wouldn't be the improved AI or graphics,the main reason will be just to enjoy again the other add-ons people created who aren't available for Ofp.

Sorry for spelling(english it's not my first language) but I think you get the idea of what I wanted to say and Jaguar,afterall it's your work and you can do whatever you want but you should think twice if you have taken this decision,personally I wouldn't wish that another add-on maker move to VBS and make add-ons only for it,I surely miss that C-130.

[miles teg 1]

Yeah I agree... I know most of the community has been very respectful to DKM and I really does punish all those people who have nothing to do with these VBS vs OFP arguements.

But oh well...   I was REALLY REALLY REALLY looking forward to the TOS-1  as well as of coarse the C130.   It could have been the definitive C130 for OFP.  

The TOS-1 would have brought a whole new type of weapon to OFP.  One that in fact would work more realistically within the OFP game engine since you can't really hide behind obstacles to prevent injury or death from a fuel air explosion unless you're in a sealed bunker or tank.

But oh well...

Very sad.  I hope Jaguar changes his mind.

EDIT:

I just read the opflashpoint.org thread and I definitely think Jaguar overreacted in the heat of the moment.

He might want to consult with the rest of his mod before pulling the plug on everyone's hard work. Thats unfair not only to the community but to the rest of his mod team even if they are away at the moment. But if he does not change his mind then well thats his decision and I hope that the rest of his team will take their projects and finish them with other mods.

Chris G.

aka-Miles Teg<GD>

[Speed123 0]

This really is unfortunate, certain people really should watch what they say and think about how they speak to people. Also, I hate seeing the VBS1 vs. OFP stuff, they are two totally different products, no competition between them. This really is unfortunate, if nothing else I hope it serves as a lesson for people to hold their tongues and think about the way they treat people. (Especially certain people)

[DKM Jaguar 0]

Hello.

Sorry for the lack of posts, I've been in two minds over this matter. What was said yesturday was in the heat of the moment (though it must be said, yes I did intend on leaving, i don't make idle threats). I thought that finally the VBS bashing would have stopped on this forum, becuase we had something half-way close to a debate on it, which I feel is what is really needed, not for every thread mentioning it to be closed. So when I get given another link about a post I made which was worded incorrectly but the overall meaning I will not appologise for, on another forum which carried on this whole childish slagging match, I was not happy.

At the moment there seems to be this feeling in the community toward addon makers who own VBS as well as OFP, that some how we've betrayed all you OFP'ers. It's almost like the ones who still stick around are shunned so they leave for VBS anyway, which is nonsensical at best. Plus it just fuels the myth that VBS is stealing OFP addon makers.

Then there's the attitude of "one-upmanship" where some (and only some) users try to make it look like OFP has somehow "beaten" VBS. I'm not into competing, I know my addons can't compete with those made for VBS. For example the issue of releasing the C-130 to VBS as well. Some people said I shouldn't, for no other reason than to deprive the VBS community of a C-130.

While I don't, and never did, plan to release the C-130 packs to the VBS community, it is these kinds of comments which create an even bigger rift between the two sides of the community.

I think that as long as you get the addons I show you, where ever else these addons end up is my worry only. It does not effect your enjoyment if I release them elsewhere. Either way, I don't expect to see dergatory remarks made against me, when I have been trying all along to avoid any conflict between OFP and VBS, I would've hoped this had been clear but evidently not.

So here's what is going to happen. I can't ethically pull the plug on my OFP activities. I do not wish to, and I won't let someone make that choice for me. I showed pictures of my projects on this forum as a taster of what I was intending to give the good people of the community, which is by far the majority (and the guys who've posted above) and I don't intend on punishing these people for the remarks of a few people who do not know what they're talking about. In fact, I feel bad about declaring I would cease modding and for this I appologise, and ask for understanding and patience. However, if you are offended by the fact that it is my choice if an addon I make for OFP also ends up in VBS, then I suggest you don't download it.

So far I have promised the community an M113 ADATS and a C-130 pack. This I will deliver on. In declaring this, those people who wish to make comments of the type seen on the other forums will no doubt think they can make these comments without any consequences. This is not the case.

Now, the rest of the community can either treat me with contempt or carry on as normal. I can only guess what impact this will have on my reputation. That choice is yours.

No matter what happens, the attitudes of the VBS hater-club in the community are inexcusable. To these people: this is not an appology and I will not be seeking your approval in any matters, so you have no more reason to be posting in this thread, thanks.

Any more comments about VBS in this thread which are not based on fact and good judgment, and which do not relate directly to the addons in question will cause me to have the topic locked.

[cornhelium 0]

I feel for you mate, and am very glad you're planning to finish the C130 and ADATs.

Cheers,

CH

[Speed123 0]

Really glad to hear you've had a change of heart, Jaguar. I'm really looking forward to your C130, it will be a huge addition to OFP. I really enjoy all your add-ons, thanks again for all your hard work!

[miles teg 1]

Thanks for clearing that up Jaguar.   I personally have no problem with addon makers that choose to port over their addons to VBS1.  Thats totally their choice.  Its their choice if they leave OFP entirely to VBS.  But very few have done that entirely unless they got paid to do so.  

I'm quite happy with the OFP community and really have no idea what the VBS1 guys are doing nor do I really care as I still see a vibrant OFP community that shows no signs of slowing down.

I don't care which one is better either.  I have OFP, and thats all I can afford so its a waste of time trying to compare it to what I don't have.  

At any rate that whole debate is pretty silly for anything more then just a debate of opinions.  

I hope you stick around in both communities Jaguar.  Acecombat is usually a level headed guy and if he did insult you directly in an unwarranted manner, I hope he will be wise enough to apologize.  But if he did it indirectly and it wasn't intentional hopefully he can clear that up.  I didn't read every post carefully so maybe I missed something nor have I read the other VBS vs OFP related threads on this forum or others.  But hopefully Acecombat will let it go and we can all go on with what we love doing.  Making stuff and playing stuff for OFP and if you like, VBS1.

Chris G.

aka-Miles Teg<GD>

[cobra@pulse 0]

Thats good to hear Jag. It is unfortunate about what happens on forums these days.

But now, seens as it has happend let us put such a thing behind us, hopefully for good.

btw, the addons look wicked!

[hardrock 1]

Well said Jaguar.

I understand Acecombat's point though. It's a bit sad that very talented model makers are switching to VBS because of its qualities or the money that BIA offers (but it's great for them!). That's no problem though. I think the thing that annoys Acecombat and also me a bit that here and there people that got VBS are spreading how good VBS and its graphics are, post screens all around, though most of the members here don't have any chance to afford the money for this military simulation, so IMO it would be better not to have any screenshots or discussions about VBS in these forums, since it's something that isn't accessible for everyone.

It's as if say (hypothetical) 50 members get an advanced version of o2 full and a public forum is opened. Everybody could watch and stun, but would always be an outsider in this topic.

In the end, Placebo decided to allow VBS screens, and we've got to accept it. But I think, not transferring VBS discussions here is our own task. So let's get back on topic please.

Jag, show some screens, the people will forget about VBS pretty fast then

[Scrub 0]

Quote[/b] ]DKM Jaguar Posted on April 29 2005,11:14

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I can only guess what impact this will have on my reputation.

Nothing but increased respect here.  What else could come from a well-thought, mature response to such nonsense.  

Just a question.  Do you have an idea of the ADATS damage/range values you'll give to the indirect missile hits?  Was wondering if you'll conform to the ranges on the 'common armor and damage' thread.  (and would you plleeeassse post another screenie if there's anything new?    Thanks)

[-ZG-BUZZARD 0]

Jaguar, DKM has been making top-notch addons for a long time for OFP and I'm sure the majority of the OFP-addon-user-community supports you and your work entirely - and I bet I'm not the only one who relieshes every addon you make and hope on receiving more of you until OFP 2 and beyond!!!

So I hope I'm not galvanizing you too much by asking you to keep it up - and be sure that we got your back should you come under fire!

(P.S.: You didn't mention the T.O.S. 1 Buratino... I hope that isn't a bad omen...).

Cheers,

[ZG]BUZZARD

[ExtracTioN 0]

Nice words Jaguar m8 I totally agree with you m8

Also nice to hear you will finnish the C-130 and M113 ADATS for OFP.

Also the one model I sended you hope you finnish that one too if you have time

I hope you change your mind in future and come back later to make addons for OFP but like I allways say a addon maker that makes addons in his free time doing it for free does NOT own anyone a thing.

Keep it up m8

[krycek 349]

Glad you clear it up Jaguar and remember that maybe always will be some people who don't like your work but a lot more who will.:;):

As for VBS1 don't know,maybe if team modders will make add-ons for VBS1 and convert them to Ofp and vice versa I think the tension will not be so high,but is their decision and I'm not the one to judge.

As for DKM,I hope to see some more add-ons from you or any member of your team in the future(especially the M109 Paladin),I know that my troopers are waiting at the Nogovian airport that C-130 of yours loaded with beer.:)

[BraTTy 0]

I am glad it came to good in the end.Don't worry Jaguar I assure you that I have embarrased myself way more than that.I'll bet the majority of us have.

Its understandable when new games come out.Look at NFS sites...NFS2 comes out then NFS3 etc...

Addon makers move on.Enjoy what they made for the old.

[DKM Jaguar 0]

I won't be leaving the OFP community after those projects, but my main focus may shift. I will still produce addons for OFP.

For the TOS and M109 I have no news. They're still on hold, becuase Carnage did the work so it is unfair for me to release it. I also only have half the pack, so even if i could fix up a release it would be missing so much it would not be worthwhile.

I've mailed him, so we shall have to wait and see about this.

I'll probably post more ADATS pictures in the next few days, once the damn suspension script it operational and doesn't cause my OFP to not let me play it.

[TermiPete 0]

[Acecombat 0]

Quote[/b] ]Glad you clear it up Jaguar and remember that maybe always will be some people who don't like your work but a lot more who will.:;):

Just to clear this up for YOU , this whole thing was never about Jaguars work/addons. His work is commendable and very good quality.

If you didnt notice it was like this:

Me: Talking about VBS and OFP.

Jag: I quit my addons because of you.

Me: Wtf?

[DKM Jaguar 0]

You insulted me, indirectly or directly.

I made a post in a thread which was meant to be harmless enough, people were presenting their opinions and I presented my own. I worded it wrongly so it could have been seen as an insult to Laser, which it was not intended to be. That is fair enough.

I also posted in the OFP combat photography comments about being tired of this constant bitching and squabling on both sides.

To then find out that I, amoung others, was classed as a "VBS Fanboy" and that I had taken a "cry baby attitude" and to find that post which I made with no bad intentions linked to, I would take as insulting, yes.

I'm not sure what your goal was to post that in those forums anyway, there can hardly be free discussion when you can just ban whoever you want there.

Can we stop this useless discussion or do we have to keep dragging it out?

I would also like to point out I'm not looking for an appology from anyone and won't be holding any ill feelings towards any individuals for the events. I think we can all (those who were involved) accept responsbility for them. I would hope for the same in return.

[miles teg 1]

Best to just let it go and drop the whole OFP vs. VBS1.  I think I can safely say that most of the people here on this forum really don't care for such a debate as it just divides the community and doesn't serve any useful purpose.  

To me it's a non-issue as I really haven't seen much of a problem. Very few mods or addon makers have gone over exclusively to VBS1. Its not like there's a stampede of people going to VBS1 exclusively. So since its not a problem, then I see it as pointless arguing about it.

Chris G.

aka-Miles Teg<GD>