World Car of the Year 2005

[brgnorway 0]

 

Quote[/b] ]Well the thing is, it doesn't work too well as it's difficult to control on the edge, like i said.

Sorry mate - without having driven it myself I can tell you from what I've read in Car, Top Gear Magazine and Evo that the car handles fantastically well and that is even before the 4wd has been released! Many think the same as you do - but they are actually wrong! The 911 is a different beast after they changed the suspension which used to be - in combination with an engine at the back -particularly dangerous on the edge. That used to be the case all untill the end of the eighties. Come on mate, that's fifteen years ago! And before anyone else starts - do most of you honestly believe a midengined sportscar such as the former F360 or it's replacement the L430 is so much easier to handle.

Quote[/b] ]Sure the 993 is winning in NGT, although the NGT class is basically made of Porsches... how about something more serious like the GT class mate.

They used to comptete in the GT class against the likes of Mercedes and McLaren with the GT1 and was highly successful.

You did know that the 911 competes against the 360 right? Another factor why the 911 is commonly used is because they mainly compeete against other teams - not cars - and that everybody want's the reliability of the 911. That is why the grid is full of 911's. Did you watch the last 4 years of Paris Dakar? Same reason why everybody in the motorcycle class use KTM!

And the 993 was a 911 model that was launched in the early 90's. Todays new version is called 997.

As for the AM DB9 mentioned here some posts ago - it's a bloody Ford, although a good one. The depressing part of it is that it lacks high speed stability. How's that for a Grand Tourer supposed to thunder along to the riviera? And before you start moaning - yes I saw Jeremy Jackson  driving it Monaco beating the train. The man is an idiot and have destroyed a very good programe which used to have excellent reporter such as Tiff Needel, Becky, Quentin Wilson etc. Instead we now have a talkshow with MJ and his idiot dwarf friend "oh look at me I used to be soooo coooool in the eighties and I'm still wearing my cowboy boots" . James May saves the day though.

Phew!

By the way, I still don't see the reason for buying any of the above mentioned cars when you can have a terrific Lotus Elise/Exige or a Caterham Seven.

[Daddl 10]

He means that it's a nice car, but it's not the car to "pick-up chicks". Basiclly, he means that women aren't attracted to that car, so they wouldn't be interested in "you". Bah, I can't explain it. I give up.

Wrong: the diffenrence is that denoir is looking for the kind of car to get a chick in the first place, while the car they selected was the kind you need when you can't get rid of her anymore...

[shrike 0]

I am not a Porsche fanboi (I just bought this) but whoever says a modern Porsche is a bitch to drive has obviously never driven one.

It's as easy as driving can possibly be, I've never driven a more docile car in my life. If I had to choose the most perfect car it would have to be a 997 Carrera S.

I can't afford one and if I could, I probably still wouldn't buy it....here in Munich you see thousands of them and 95% are driven by pointy-haired yuppies on a leasing, gold necklace wearing pimps or your average aging playboy. Sad.

Plus Porsche, like most other car companies, is going the way of more luxury, more lectronics, more useless gadgets and more electronically influenced driving...too much stuff that can go kaputt and too boring to drive.

[Albert Schweitzer 10]

Porsche Cayenne S

620 Newtonmetre

4,5 Liter

450 PS

6.000/min

0 to 100 km/h in 5,6 seconds

266 km/h top speed (locked)

Give me something else to challenge but please dont give me a cherokee!  

easy...

1986 Chrysler Lebaron GTS

2.2L Turbo 26Psi Boost

0 to 100 <4.5s

Beat the Cayenne in snow too.   More like humiliated.

Edit: woops, 27psi boost.

BN880 I am absolutely convinced that this must be the most underrated car in the world... and it beats a porsche Cayenne S by miles, may it be on the road, in the snow or even under water. We all know that cars build in the 80ies by american companies were technologically superior... and this one was and is still known to be the best the SUVracer worldwide.. I mean look at it. That is the Lebaron GTC, worlds best engineering!

[ozanzac 0]

This quote had me in stiches

Quote[/b] ]The 2005 World Car of the Year will be selected from the following finalists:

* Audi A6

* BMW 1-Series

* Chevrolet Corvette C6

* Chrysler 300C

* Ford Focus (excluding North-American version)

* Land Rover LR3/Discovery III

* Mercedes-Benz A-Class

* Mercedes-Benz SLK

* Porsche 911

* Volvo S40

Seriously.......American cars DO lack the quality of their European, Japanese and (dare I say it) Australian competitors.

What I'd like to know is the Criteria....of what defines a 'world car'.

[Badgerboy 0]

Reminds me of a classic Simpsons quote...

Lenny - Look, Homer has one of those new robot cars!

>CRASH<

Carl - One of those ....American.... robot cars!

[Gordy 0]

Pure mechanics, rear drive, no ESP, no ABS, no airbags

0-100km/h in 3.6 seconds

310km/h

400bhp

1100kg

420Nm of torque @ 5250rpm

The most radical sport cars ever made

[brgnorway 0]

Pure mechanics, rear drive, no ESP, no ABS, no airbags

0-100km/h in 3.6 seconds

310km/h

400bhp

1100kg

420Nm of torque @ 5250rpm

The most radical sport cars ever made

Yes TVR makes fast and beautyful cars. But the 0-96 miles not 0-100km/t I believe is at best positive. It hasn't been confirmed by anyone else than TVR itself and I guess you'd have to try many many times in order to achieve it. Nevertheless, it's the ability to be light and nimble such as tucking in the front before a curve, the ingear acceleration and the feel of the car that's important. TVR excels in all those respects and it's utterly hardcore and reasonable priced too. A real English sportscar if you ask me- something it has in common with Lotus and Caterham but perhaps a wee bit chestwigg factor - but then, who cares!

It's not the most radical though because the Radical is.

http://www.radicalmotorsport.com/range....mal.jpg

[aviel 0]

hey guys regarding to that,

i was in the dutch auto RAI, MANY MANY MANY cars where there, from hummers to masaraties, it was awsome.

its in dutch. klick me

[Gordy 0]

Well, perhaps not but One really must be a great driver to be able to drive them. Engine sound is also very extreme and best ever.

Here is another TVR model

[brgnorway 0]

Well, perhaps not but One really must be a great driver to be able to drive them. Engine sound is also very extreme and best ever.

Here is another TVR model

I agree with you Gordy. Noone makes sportscars as the english anymore. TVR is a very good example of what Ferrari used to be (allthough still very competent) when everything was besboke and they didn't design a car with room for golf clubs for the american market. The american market is solely responsible for Ferrari still floating - but not nessecarily for the better. But then, in the end the sportscar always ends up corrupted with leather, room for golf clubs, aircondition etc.

Maybe that's why I love Lotus and Caterham that much. Additional weight just doesn't fit their cars!

[Gordy 0]

Well, perhaps not but One really must be a great driver to be able to drive them. Engine sound is also very extreme and best ever.

Here is another TVR model

I agree with you Gordy. Noone makes sportscars as the english anymore. TVR is a very good example of what Ferrari used to be (allthough still very competent) when everything was besboke and they didn't design a car with room for golf clubs for the american market. The american market is solely responsible for Ferrari still floating - but not nessecarily for the better. But then, in the end the sportscar always ends up corrupted with leather, room for golf clubs, aircondition etc.

Maybe that's why I love Lotus and Caterham that much. Additional weight just doesn't fit their cars!

"]http://www.caterham.co.uk/images/pomainpics/1137.jpg[/img]

Let's consider the best car brands ever made (in my opinion)

1. Jaguar (XJ series and XK series)

2. TVR (any model)

3. Aston Martin (DB9)

4. Rolls and Bentley

5. Lotus.

British cars can fullfill any need anyone would ever want in terms of luxury, speed, quality, beauty.

[Albert Schweitzer 10]

okay, but now we are moving away from feasable everday cars. If you drop into that high class category well then you could also mention the Pagani Zonda F that hits 200km/h after 9.8 seconds.

[shrike 0]

Quote[/b] ]Noone makes sportscars as the english anymore

Except Honda with the S2000. I had been looking for some hedonistic nice car for a while now to have some fun until my wife and I have kids and a minivan etc.

At first I was very sceptic...as a German you don't exactly think very well about Japanese cars...which is totally unrational BS as they have great engineers, superior quality and in this case make one of the best sportscars in the world.

After long research there was no other choice left than this:

Affordable, minimalistic philosophy, handmade, very rare, no platform sharing, the engine with the highest displacement/power ratio for a non-supercharged engine in the world and exceptional driving characteristics.

What a shame we're going through a Siberian winter here in Bavaria

Ah well, another month or so and I should be screaming through the mountains  

[shadow 6]

What I'd like to know is the Criteria....of what defines a 'world car'.

If there ever was a world car it would be incompatible with England and Australie because we drive on the right side of the road and you drive on the wrong side of the road

[Gordy 0]

okay, but now we are moving away from feasable everday cars. If you drop into that high class category well then you could also mention the Pagani Zonda F that hits 200km/h after 9.8 seconds.

Wait a minute.

Zonda or Konig-sth are cars from outer space.

I am talking about cars that are pretty normal and happen to be expensive at the same time.

I would accept Mini Cooper S John Works mod as bottom line of my choices.

I wouldn't buy any French, Italian or american car. They simply can't build a decent car.

UK, Germany (Merc & BMW), Japan and Sweden are car maker countries that count for me.

[Albert Schweitzer 10]

found that.. interesting read

Number 10

1956 Ferrari 860 Monza -- $2.5 million

In the 1950s, Maserati, Jaguar and Aston Martin were dominating racing events across the world. Ferrari wanted to climb back into the spotlight and it came up with this four-cylinder monster. To this day, Ferrari has never built a four-cylinder engine this powerful.

Juan Manuel Fangio, then the lead racer in Ferrari's stable, chose to drive this particular car, model 0604M (one of only three), at the Sebring event of the World Championship. Aboard one of the greatest Ferraris ever built, he won the race. This very car was auctioned off in August 2003 for $2.5 million.

Number 9

1933 Alfa Romeo 8C 2300 Monza Spider Corsa -- $2.53 million

While the body of this Italian beauty was built by a group of artisans who were proud of their craft, the true magnificence can be witnessed under the hood, where even the engine was made to look good. The 8C 2300 was such a powerful and popular machine in its day that drivers from competing factories would buy them for themselves and race them on their own time.

This particular 2.6-liter took third place at the most prestigious race of 1933 -- the French Grand Prix -- driven by Captain George Eyston, who wasn't affiliated with any racing team at the time. In 1949, the same car won the Bridgehampton, Long Island road race. Famous automobile collector Terry Cohn sold it for $2.53 million in March 2002.

Number 8

1937 Mercedes-Benz 540K Special Roadster -- $3.63 million

German engineering has always been in a class of its own, and it was no different with this Mercedes-Benz 540K Special Roadster, which could be driven like a sports car when most automobiles were hard to control. The centerpiece of the Berlin Motor Show in 1937, it was admired by Hollywood mogul Jack Warner, who bought it and brought it back with him to America.

What makes this model so special is that on top of being only one of 26 models made, this is one of only six that have the spare tire fully covered. In 1949, a Connecticut veterinarian purchased it and 35 years later, the convertible still had a mere 11,000 miles on the odometer. It went for $3.63 million in January 2002.

Number 7

1937 Alfa Romeo 8C 2900 -- $4.07 million

In the 1920s, Enzo Ferrari and Vittorio Jano got together at Alfa Romeo and set out to build racecars that could win championships. After some success with the P3 in the early '30s, they returned to Grand Prix racing with their dual supercharged 2.9-liter eight-cylinder engine in 1935 and were again triumphant.

In 1938, a private driver, Piero Dusio, drove this 412012 model to a third-place finish in the Pontedecimo-Giovi hill climb and won the Stelvio race a little later. The car changed hands a number of times before ending up in California in 1989. Restoration was completed in 1992 and it was auctioned at Christie's at Monterey for little over $4 million.

Number 6

1964 Shelby Cobra Daytona Coupe -- $4.4 million

Back in 1963, Ferrari dominated the USRRC (US Road Racing Championship) racing circuit with its 250 GTO. Carroll Shelby wanted his place in the sun and his Cobra Roadster wasn't pulling its weight. The chassis was reworked for better aerodynamics and it was equipped with a Ford V8 289 ci engine. The famous car made its world premiere in Daytona but it wasn't until three weeks later at Sebring that the Cobra showed its potential.

The six manufactured models made it possible for American Racing to win the 1965 manufacturer's title. Following this feat, Ford hired Shelby to race GT40s and the Cobras were retired, being sold for a few thousand dollars. The first model, CXS2287, went through a series of owners -- including music producer Phil Spector -- and ownership was disputed for 30 years. It finally fetched $4.4 million when Dr. Frederick Simeone bought it in 2001.

Number 5

1932 Alfa Romeo Tipo B -- $5.6 million

Unofficially known as the P3 or Monoposto, the Alfa Romeo Tipo B was conceived for the 1932 GP Formula 1 season and it became the first single-seater vehicle on the tour. The supercharged 2.6-liter engine had eight cylinders. One of the engine's chief assets was the low-speed torque.

The 1932 season was basically dominated by the Alfa Romeo, winning five major races. Only six of those cars were ever built and in 1933 they were entrusted to Ferrari, which then handled the racing part. A rare 1932 Alfa Romeo Tipo B was recently purchased for the affordable price of $5.6 million.

Number 4

1962 Ferrari 330 TRI/LM -- $6.5 million

In the late 1950s, Ferrari dominated international racing events with its Testarossa series of front-engined sports cars. In 1962, new rules were applied for LeMans, which forced manufacturers to use four-cylinder engines. The 330 TRI/LM became the most powerful Testarossa and also the last.

Model 0808 won the 1962 LeMans event before being sold by Ferrari to another team. After one race in which it was damaged, it was sold to Hisashi Okada, who drove the car in New York City for a decade. Following complete restoration and a stint in a French collection, it resurfaced in an August 2002 auction and was sold for $6.5 million.

Number 3

1931 Type 41 Bugatti Royale -- $8.7 million

Whereas other manufacturers were interested in performance, Bugatti was all about luxury. Using the finest woods, metals and leathers, it was made to impress and provided comfort for the very rich. A massive car with its 14-foot long chassis, this model weighs 3.5 tons.

Back in a time when cars could be purchased for a few hundred dollars, the Bugatti Royale cost $42,000 and only six were ever built. In 1987, four thousand people gathered at Christie's in London and witnessed this 1931 Type 41 Bugatti Royale being auctioned off. It went for $8.7 million.

Number 2

1962 Ferrari 250 GTO -- $16.6 million

The beauty of the 1962 Ferrari 250 GTO is that it's a combination of road and racecar. The shape favors aerodynamics while boasting a sexiness that is welcome on the streets. But it's definitely a racecar first and foremost, and requires constant attention, funds and repairs. The engine, which can produce up to 300 horsepower, established Ferrari as the racing champion of the world.

The interior of the 250 GTO is plain; there isn't even carpeting. But with only 40 models made, it's one of the most rare Ferraris in the world. A British garage held on to the one it had acquired cheaply in the '70s and sold it to a Japanese businessman in 1990 for $16.6 million.

Number 1

1954 Mercedes W 196 -- $24 million

The holy grail of racing cars, it was introduced at the 1954 French Grand Prix at Reims, and went on to dominate Formula 1 racing for both the 1954 and 1955 seasons. What made the automobile so special was its revolutionary valve system, which utilized positive control without having to resort to springs.

This car was raced by legendary drivers Juan Manuel Fangio and Stirling Moss before ending up in a museum in the 1980s. The car was sold for a couple of millions to finance renovations at the museum, and sold again in 1990 to a French industrialist for $24 million. A German businessman is currently the owner; he reportedly paid less then half the amount in the late '90s.

[Albert Schweitzer 10]

and more

most expensive 2004

1. Ferrari Enzo Ferrari $652,000

2. Porsche Carrera GT 440,000

3. Saleen S7 440,000

4. Maybach 62 357,000

5. Rolls-Royce Phantom 320,000

6. Lamborghini Murciélago $282,000

7. Bentley Arnage RL 256,990

8. Aston Martin V12 Vanquish 236,000

9. Ferrari 575M Maranello 228,339

10. Ferrari 360 Modena Spider 193,150

[Gordy 0]

1. Ferrari Enzo Ferrari $652,000 - crap

2. Porsche Carrera GT 440,000 - undrivable

3. Saleen S7 440,000 - ?

4. Maybach 62 357,000 - come on, it's not a car but an airbus

5. Rolls-Royce Phantom 320,000 OK!

6. Lamborghini Murciélago $282,000 - it's an Audi

7. Bentley Arnage RL 256,990 - OK

8. Aston Martin V12 Vanquish 236,000 - DB9 is better

9. Ferrari 575M Maranello 228,339 - crap

10. Ferrari 360 Modena Spider 193,150 - crap

Basically all Ferraris are crap in terms of quality + gear box and it's Italian.

[Albert Schweitzer 10]

Quote[/b] ]Noone makes sportscars as the english anymore

Except Honda with the S2000. I had been looking for some hedonistic nice car for a while now to have some fun until my wife and I have kids and a minivan etc.

At first I was very sceptic...as a German you don't exactly think very well about Japanese cars...which is totally unrational BS as they have great engineers, superior quality and in this case make one of the best sportscars in the world.

After long research there was no other choice left than this:

Affordable, minimalistic philosophy, handmade, very rare, no platform sharing, the engine with the highest displacement/power ratio for a non-supercharged engine in the world and exceptional driving characteristics.

What a shame we're going through a Siberian winter here in Bavaria

Ah well, another month or so and I should be screaming through the mountains  

I fully agree and I often find myself being prejudiced about asian cars even though statistics show there is no reason for it. Perfect cars for a perfect price, low maintenance costs, good after-sale service.

However, asian cars are usually not corresponding to my tastes. You can easily show a european car 10 years after it was build and you still like the design.. it still feels like an original. But asian cars dont have an eternal design. They are short-fashioned and I think I dont need to give some examples of cars that once looked hot (Mazda MX5) and nowadays are just .. well lets face it... ugly!

[Gordy 0]

Quote[/b] ]Noone makes sportscars as the english anymore

Except Honda with the S2000. I had been looking for some hedonistic nice car for a while now to have some fun until my wife and I have kids and a minivan etc.

At first I was very sceptic...as a German you don't exactly think very well about Japanese cars...which is totally unrational BS as they have great engineers, superior quality and in this case make one of the best sportscars in the world.

After long research there was no other choice left than this:

Affordable, minimalistic philosophy, handmade, very rare, no platform sharing, the engine with the highest displacement/power ratio for a non-supercharged engine in the world and exceptional driving characteristics.

What a shame we're going through a Siberian winter here in Bavaria

Ah well, another month or so and I should be screaming through the mountains  

I fully agree and I often find myself being prejudiced about asian cars even though statistics show there is no reason for it. Perfect cars for a perfect price, low maintenance costs, good after-sale service.

However, asian cars are usually not corresponding to my tastes. You can easily show a european car 10 years after it was build and you still like the design.. it still feels like an original. But asian cars dont have an eternal design. They are short-fashioned and I think I dont need to give some examples of cars that once looked hot (Mazda MX5) and nowadays are just .. well lets face it... ugly!

Toyota Supra, Nissan Skyline.

[shrike 0]

However, asian cars are usually not corresponding to my tastes. You can easily show a european car 10 years after it was build and you still like the design.. it still feels like an original. But asian cars dont have an eternal design. They are short-fashioned and I think I dont need to give some examples of cars that once looked hot (Mazda MX5) and nowadays are just .. well lets face it... ugly!

I used to think the same, trust me. However, if you look at it from an objective point of view there are very little German (or European) cars that keep their eternal aesthetic value for a long time. Exceptions are Porsche, the epitome of a timeless design, some older Mercedes models and a few selected classics.

Any Audi from the 90ies that still looks remotely interesting? Any BMW except the old 635 CSI or the really old 2002 etc.? Any Volkswagen?

In the end there isn't that much of a difference between German and Japanese cars when it comes to this, especially when talking about bread-and-butter cars.

The good thing about German car manufacturers are the rare model changes so the cars get and keep a certain character, unlike Japanese cars that become "faceless" very soon.

I agree regarding the Mazda Mx-5. But you can say the same about Audi-TT, which was very interesting when it came out...for about 2 weeks. Same goes for SLK or even more for BMW Z3.

However I'd like to think of the S2000 as a very special breed that doesn't fall under the same rules, especially as it has remained virtually unchanged since 6 years and is no mass production car.

I can't dig out all the special characteristics of this car now. If you're interested you should find plenty of evidence on the internet why it is so special.

[Badgerboy 0]

I wouldn't call the Enzo 'crap'

Its a complete beast! Overpriced maybe, ugly, but its still not a crap car.

As for the Porsche being 'undrivable', stop spouting off the old '911 going into a hedge backwards stuff'. New Porsches are very nice handling cars, and the GT is no exception.

[brgnorway 0]

However I'd like to think of the S2000 as a very special breed that doesn't fall under the same rules, especially as it has remained virtually unchanged since 6 years and is no mass production car.

I can't dig out all the special characteristics of this car now. If you're interested you should find plenty of evidence on the internet why it is so special.

Hi Shrike!

Your Honda S2000 is a true roadster - a very good car indeed. It's kind of a hooligan car in terms of its oversteering capasity and has a lovely VTEC engine that loves to rev. Congratulations!

I'm mainly interested in english and italian cars but there are lot's of crapcars among them. The quality of the japaneese cars is unquestionable but most of them are quite boring as well with a few exceptins: Your S2000, Toyota MR2 and the lovely old Mazda MX5 - the car that revived the old "Lotus Elan roadster segment" .

Many of the cars posted here are for most of us only "dream cars" , but some (as your car) are "real" . My very own fetish when it comes to cars are cars exactly like that. My own Alfa Romeo is a fantastic car despite being fwd. It revs like nothing else, it's lighter than a BMW 3 series, it's more nimble and has a very precise steering only bettered by a Lotus Elise!

And if anyone dear say the Mazda MX5 is ugly I would only like to say this: if you don't like the looks of the original MX5 (pre-ordinary front lights) then you probably don't like cars like Lotus Elan and other timeless classics.

If I had the time and an extra garage I'd go for this one:

Cheers!

Christian

[bn880 5]

Porsche Cayenne S

620 Newtonmetre

4,5 Liter

450 PS

6.000/min

0 to 100 km/h in 5,6 seconds

266 km/h top speed (locked)

Give me something else to challenge but please dont give me a cherokee!

easy...

1986 Chrysler Lebaron GTS

2.2L Turbo 26Psi Boost

0 to 100 <4.5s

Beat the Cayenne in snow too. More like humiliated.

Edit: woops, 27psi boost.

BN880 I am absolutely convinced that this must be the most underrated car in the world... and it beats a porsche Cayenne S by miles, may it be on the road, in the snow or even under water. We all know that cars build in the 80ies by american companies were technologically superior... and this one was and is still known to be the best the SUVracer worldwide.. I mean look at it. That is the Lebaron GTC, worlds best engineering!

No, I'm talking about a modified one, not a wreck that you posted above.

Albert, this is real life talking, no one other than a complete git drives a Cayenne, IRL morons that think their shit doesn't stink are really attracted to them.

The Lebaron is a fun _cheeap_ car for modifications, the Cayenne is well, a pice of german crap for people who know dick all about driving well.