Best country in the world?

[Jinef 2]

The UK is a shithole, and it's getting worse. Our government is apathetic and when it does appear to do something it does the wrong things *cough* Iraq *cough*. If the conservatives get in (good chance they will) then this place will get a lot worse. We need to realise we are but a small island that is severely overpopulated by mainly very dependent materialistic morons who just want to work a shitty job and then on the weekend get bolloxed on pills. I'm not right wing however they have a bloody good point about wanting to cut down on immigration, we are overpopulated, end of story. The left just disagree not because they think we should have more immigrants but just for the sake of arguing with the right.

I have no idea how it can get better but I think closing borders and national service would be a good idea. If your not in the military your picking up litter for a hour before work. I feel that the way to actually get to a better state is going against what we have been doing for the past 30 years, less individuality and more service to the country. The number of cars could be cut down, public transport could be providing actual transport instead of just driving advertisements around town.

I'm not a politician though, just a disgruntled citizen who enjoys his escapism into virtuality.

[MeltedAd 0]

I agree with Jinef the UK is getting bad. It is not supprising that it is well down the list. We look at other countries in the EU and they all seem to have a more relaxed lifestyle. My life here at the moment just seems to be work, sleep and more work.

The food, which has always been crap just gets worst ,not only is it crap, but it's been imported, it's already weeks old and covered in preservative. The road are dire, too many car for too small roads, a lot of the roads were originally built for the horse and cart and have not been repaired since. Public transport is hell, not only do you travel on the bumpy roads, but you are packed in like sardines with little kids running amock and old people moaning about the kids. Every thing seems about money, and this time of year is the worst, most shop start the christmas run as soon as November appears (it would be sooner but halloween and guy fawkes night get in the way). Almost everbody seems to want to move aboard and live in southern France or some such crap.

I think i will move to Ireland.  

[IsthatyouJohnWayne 0]

We do have first class whiners though .

[adam.ni 0]

I didnt know I was so privaliged to live in such a wonderful place as Ireland  .  Well  i am from the north but still part of the island anyway.  Whats so special about here?  There is run down parts of the community in every country.  Check japan for their shanty towns . (hint I dont want anymore immigrants coming here from England and the US ! only joking i dont mind)

[denoir 0]

We do have first class whiners though   .

Actually, I think your problem is that you don't. I see in many respects that UK is very similar to Sweden. You are just further down the line.

The core problem, in both countries, I think is an unrealistic picture of the country, especially in relation in other countries. This leads to a dangerous reluctance to change.

While Sweden is listed as number 5, we've been declining for the last few decades. The trend is clear. Sweden clings to an outdated picture of itself and the world around it. I think the same goes for the UK.

I expect that at least Sweden will get a grip on reality in some 10-15 years, when we see that we have been surpassed on all levels by countries like Bulgaria. And it will hurt to adapt then.

[Acecombat 0]

One of my friends father went to sweden and the biggest obstacle they faced there was finding 'halal' meat , you folks dont get halal meat or what? Or maybe they lived in a isolated place. My friends father was on a training mission there for some telecom company he works for.

Your meat laws are tight and need loseening

[Koolkid101 0]

I haven't really noticed that much of a difference in quality of life from where I live in the Vermont and when I visited Europe.

[Supah 0]

One of my friends father went to sweden and the biggest obstacle they faced there was finding 'halal' meat    , you folks dont get halal meat or what? Or maybe they lived in a isolated place. My friends father was on a training mission there for some telecom company he works for.

Your meat laws are tight and need loseening  

Speaking from experience, our rules on the butchering of meat are based on hygene rather then religion. That has served us well in the past, it will serve us well in the future. The EU has one of the highest standards about quality control of food and other consumer products.

[red oct 2]

The UK is a shithole, and it's getting worse. Our government is apathetic and when it does appear to do something it does the wrong things *cough* Iraq *cough*. If the conservatives get in (good chance they will) then this place will get a lot worse. We need to realise we are but a small island that is severely overpopulated by mainly very dependent materialistic morons who just want to work a shitty job and then on the weekend get bolloxed on pills. I'm not right wing however they have a bloody good point about wanting to cut down on immigration, we are overpopulated, end of story. The left just disagree not because they think we should have more immigrants but just for the sake of arguing with the right.

I have no idea how it can get better but I think closing borders and national service would be a good idea. If your not in the military your picking up litter for a hour before work. I feel that the way to actually get to a better state is going against what we have been doing for the past 30 years, less individuality and more service to the country. The number of cars could be cut down, public transport could be providing actual transport instead of just driving advertisements around town.

I'm not a politician though, just a disgruntled citizen who enjoys his escapism into virtuality.

really? never seen any ghetto's in the UK. but than again i've never seen any pictures outside of London for that matter. can't be all that bad can it?

[Radnik 18]

...and the funny one: Serbia

[Acecombat 0]

One of my friends father went to sweden and the biggest obstacle they faced there was finding 'halal' meat    , you folks dont get halal meat or what? Or maybe they lived in a isolated place. My friends father was on a training mission there for some telecom company he works for.

Your meat laws are tight and need loseening  

Speaking from experience, our rules on the butchering of meat are based on hygene rather then religion. That has served us well in the past, it will serve us well in the future. The EU has one of the highest standards about quality control of food and other consumer products.

Thank you very much but the 'Halal' meat is supposed to be CLEAN and hygenic

What are you implying here? That the rest of the world eats unclean meat or something and only europe knows how to get clean meat? We have relatively good standards of hygiene here too , i dont see anything wrong with the meat i buy here.

As for high standards everywhere , from where did the foot and mouth epidemic start from btw?

[denoir 0]

Thank you very much but the 'Halal' meat is supposed to be CLEAN and hygenic  

It's more likely that there isn't much of a market for meat prepared in such a specific way. Or it could have to do with the way it's slaughtered - that it would be considered cruelty to animals. I don't know the rules for halal slaughter, but we have some fairly restrictive rules on how you can kill an animal.

Quote[/b] ]What are you implying here? That the rest of the world eats unclean meat or something and only europe knows how to get clean meat? We have relatively good standards of hygiene here too , i dont see anything wrong with the meat i buy here.

Relatively speaking, there is a big difference in general. That's why we Europeans must take a shitload of vaccines when we visit most of the rest of the world. We have very strict rules on nearly clinical conditions when handling meat. This has led to the extermination of various common bacteria - making our immune system unfamiliar to them. Hence the need for vaccines.

Quote[/b] ]As for high standards everywhere , from where did the foot and mouth epidemic start from btw?

Just like the flu - from Asia. It hit Europe very hard because of the large-scale agricultures. Many animals packed together make it easy for it to spread rapidly.

Anyhow, I think where we need to improve is the handling of the animals. It's getting better, but there's still lots to be done. This includes giving them better living conditions and not feeding them with antibiotics and shit..

[bn880 5]

Fight fight! I would drop the issue personally, or you'll be arguing over silly stuff...

Anyway, at this rate, maybe even Poland can catch the UK and friends some day. Actually that is very difficult to imagine.

[red oct 2]

whats Halal meat?

[Acecombat 0]

Heck bn880 i am not fighting but i do take it as an insult when somebody comes up and makes an statement as such that religious way of slaughter is unclean or something , first of all there is no religious way or anything 'halal' way is to slaughter a animal by cutting his throat and letting the blood drain away and cruelty to animals is not an ISSUE here you ARE in the end killing him its not as if bonking him on the head will keep him alive or that he'll be thankful to you in his afetrlife funnily enough non-religious folks dont believe in one so why does it even MATTER if the animal dies with pain or not its dying as it is and pain is gonna come either way...

Scientifically i think its proven that halal way is much better for meat since the blood doesnt clots or jams inside a body i dont know the specifics on this in details right now or i might have posted those.

[denoir 0]

'halal' way is to slaughter a animal by cutting his throat and letting the blood drain away and cruelty to animals is not an ISSUE here you ARE in the end killing him its not as if bonking him on the head will keep him alive or that he'll be thankful to you in his afetrlife funnily enough non-religious folks dont believe in one so why does it even MATTER if the animal dies with pain or not its dying as it is and pain is gonna come either way...  

Empathy? Do you think religion is the only thing in the world that sets rules of conduct?

It has nothing to do with an afterlife or not, but that you shouldn't put a living being through unnecessary suffering. It's for the same reason why we don't torture people - including criminals.

And yes, there is a big difference between cutting the throat of an animal and using more modern methods that either kill or completely stun the animal in the fraction of a second. (Not to mention that the latter are far more efficient and quicker methods - you can kill animals much faster that way, and you can automate the process. Anything else would be unrealistic for the large scale industrial type of agriculture. Animal goes into the machine, meat comes out on the other end)

It could however be argued that animals in less industrialized countries live far better lives overall as they live in far less crowded quarters, get better food etc

[bn880 5]

Yeah, having experienced some unpleasent shit in my own life, I would not want to put animals through any un-necessary suffering. I know that taken from a completely scientific analysis, I am being illogical, but speaking as a similar organism to the ones we kill, make it painless...

On another note, I think we are going to have some psychological issues with our very existance sometime in the future, once society as a whole puts life in an even more scientific perspective... I don't think I should really expand on that here.

[ralphwiggum 6]

I'd move to Ireland. Too bad none of my relatives are Irish.  

but they can drink like one.

for me Canada, Austrailia. if not, a nice place like Prague would do.

If denoir invades Norway, I'd gladly enter Norway and fight him.

[Blake 0]

*nevermind*

[theavonlady 2]

whats Halal meat?

Kosher for Muslims.

[Oligo 1]

Denoir, the medication of animals in EU is pretty controlled. No hormones are ever (at least officially) used and antibiotics are only administered to sick animals for a set period of time. As a contrast, in US animals are fed hormones and antibiotics during their whole lifespans, just to make sure they don't get sick and that they grow faster.

Halal meat is in no way better than meat obtained from animals that have been killed in a painless way, since the first step after killing is always bloodletting, of course, as any hunter or butcher knows. On the contrary, slow slaughter by slitting the throat and allowing the animal to bleed to death might actually release stress hormones into the meat. Meat that has undergone stress responses prior to death is generally considered to taste worse than stressless meat, that's why great care is usually taken to avoid causing any distress in the doomed animals. The only benefit you get from Halal is fulfillment of your religious righteousness. But hey, whatever rings your bell and keeps you going through the night...

[brgnorway 0]

Quote[/b] ]Denoir, the medication of animals in EU is pretty controlled. No hormones are ever (at least officially) used and antibiotics are only administered to sick animals for a set period of time

Hi Oligo - ever heard about Belgian Blue, the nice white veal of the netherlands and the dutch hormone mafia?

Link here!

The veal is white because of starvation and the Belgian Blue is the hulk of cattle   We make sure our domestic animals live under such high standards that animals often die from suffocation during transport.

[theavonlady 2]

The veal is white because of starvation

We had a local veal boycott here last year because of the conditions to produce veal. Also involved is having the cattle in stalls with no room to move, preventing muscle formation, which leads to the soft meat attribute of veal.

We've also had a major protest against the production of enlarge goose livers for pate de fras gras. I believe a law was passed requiring the phasing out of the industry here over the next 4-5 years.

Now I'm hungry.

[Llauma 0]

Quote[/b] ]Denoir, the medication of animals in EU is pretty controlled. No hormones are ever (at least officially) used and antibiotics are only administered to sick animals for a set period of time

Hi Oligo - ever heard about Belgian Blue, the nice white veal of the netherlands and the dutch hormone mafia?

Link here!

The veal is white because of starvation and the Belgian Blue is the hulk of cattle   We make sure our domestic animals live under such high standards that animals often die from suffocation during transport.

The way animals are being treated in Europe is far from good.. The only thing we do well is to give them a quick and painless death after a couple of years crowded in hell. Lots of of the animals in central and southern Europe gets hormones and antibiotics even when not needed to.

I don't know about you but at least I would prefer to live a good life in with some freedom and die a little more painfully than to live the whole life within 1x2m stanting in your own shit just to be awarded with a quick death.

[brgnorway 0]

Quote[/b] ]Also involved is having the cattle in stalls with no room to move, preventing muscle formation, which leads to the soft meat attribute of veal.

Yes it's really horrible! One doesn't even have to be a "tree hugger" to understand what cruelty towards animals is all about    I'd like to ask some of the people that eat veal despite the knowledge of cruelty would treat their dog the same way as the calves.

Quote[/b] ]We've also had a major protest against the production of enlarge goose livers for pate de fras gras.

Another ugly one! Fois Gras tastes wonderful (especially with Sauternes) and is very expensive. It's the kind of luxury I allow myself - together with Stilton cheese - every weekend. It is possible though to produce fois gras without stuffing the food down the throats of the poor animals  

What makes me kind of angry is that lot's of the people who demonstrate and petition "poor free willy" and the wales and seals that are hunted in Norway are the same people that eat food made from highly industrialized livestock - denied any respect or sound health