Vanunu arrested by Israeli police

[brgnorway 0]

BUZZARD @ Nov. 11 2004,14:41)]And poor little you can't stand anybody else having nukes to stand up against your nukes (like, the cold war didn't turn "hot" the way everybody feared because of DETERRENCE) - so you didn't mind blowing up an iraqui nuclear facility nor would you mind at all to do the same to Iran...      

Edit: Because, of course, nobody else in the Middle East has the right to have nukes besides Israel... riiiiiiight...  

Well, I think you'r a bit unreasonable now because if I had been Israel I sure as hell would have nuclear weapons myself.

And one cannot hold it against Israel that they attacked Saddams naughty business anyway.

The absolutely worst scenario would be if any other nation in the middle east got thier hands on nuclear weapons capacity too.

So, I'm fine with people like Avon controling the button.

[brgnorway 0]

]

Rosenberg trials:

Quote[/b] ]The couple were the only two American civilians to be executed for conspiracy to commit espionage during the Cold War

Just to remind you that the US at least did execute some spies during the cold war (although not usually). But then they are still quite fond of killing of suspects without fair trials...

....hehe got me there

I didn't know. Well, it suits me fine having to accept my ignorance

[-ZG-BUZZARD 0]

I'm not saying it's a bad thing that Israel has nukes, I think it's unreasonable from arab's point of view that they would have no right as to have nuclear weapons of their own for the purpouse of deterrence...

Quote[/b] ]No other country has been sworn to its destruction by almost all of its' surrounding neighbors other than Israel.

I wonder what they did to deserve that...

[brgnorway 0]

BUZZARD @ Nov. 11 2004,15:20)]

Quote[/b] ]I'm not saying it's a bad thing that Israel has nukes, I think it's unreasonable from arab's point of view that they would have no right as to have nuclear weapons of their own for the purpouse of deterrence...

I understand what you are saying, but nuclear weapons capability is not something you "deserve" or aquire rights too.

And I'm comfortable with Israel having it. I'm however not comfortable with the idea of any other middle eastern nations striving for the same.

Quote[/b] ]I wonder what they did to deserve that...

One can argue untill one is blue in the face about the legitimacy of the Israeli state but it doesn't change anything.

I for one want's Israel to stay more or less that way it is - except for some land that has to be given away to the palestinians to create a palestinian state as intended by UN some 50 odd years ago.

[-ZG-BUZZARD 0]

I for one want's Israel to stay more or less that way it is - except for some land that has to be given away to the palestinians to create a palestinian state as intended by UN some 50 odd years ago.

Couldn't agree more... a pity the whole world is of the same opinion- except Israel.

[Bernadotte 0]

Don't you just love those free and democratic nations of the middle east  

Don'y you just love these hypocritical left wingnuts who are cynical about a country's democracy because someone under legal contract and parole agreement to not publicize classified state secrets repeatedly does so?

Parole?

Please tell me what free and democratic nation places someone on parole after completing their full prison sentence.

One that remains a direct security threat to a fragile country in a fragile corner of the world.

More misplaced pity. No lack of it this day and age.

More like misplaced self-pity on your part.

Your judicial system did not foresee any risk in releasing Vanunu after serving all 18 years.  Otherwise, they would have sentenced him to death or life in prison without chance for parole.  These new restrictions on Vanunu were enacted only this year by the legislative branch of your government and not the judiciary.  These are kept separate in most free and democratic nations.

[Blake 0]

Big deal.

As if a person revealing military secrets of his native country wouldn't be arrested anywhere else in the world...

What's so big fuss about this, really?

[brgnorway 0]

Quote[/b] ]Big deal.

As if a person revealing military secrets of his native country wouldn't be arrested anywhere else in the world...

Big deal because there's no military secrets to reveal anymore.

And because he already did his time in prison for disclosing to the world that Israel infact did have nuclear capability way back then.

Quote[/b] ]What's so big fuss about this, really?

I guess the world sort of sees him as hero because of what he did. After all he didn't do it for money, and it wasn't given to a state per se, but to a newspaper.

If the person had been indian, pakistani, iranian or iraqi he would have been thought of as a hero in Israel too!

[Bernadotte 0]

The best chance for a nation with nukes never to use them is to let all their potential attackers know they exist.

The best chance for a nation with nukes to use them is to keep them secret.

[theavonlady 2]

Quote[/b] ]Big deal.

As if a person revealing military secrets of his native country wouldn't be arrested anywhere else in the world...

Big deal because there's no military secrets to reveal anymore.

Prove it.

[Tigershark_BAS 0]

*reflects nostalgically* Aaaah...the Off Topic forum. Our own little virtual Gaza strip

[Bernadotte 0]

After all he didn't do it for money...

Actually, that's exactly why he did it.  A short while after moving to Australia he was convinced by a friend that he could get a lot of money from the media for what he knew.

- more details -

- ME Thread discussion -

[brgnorway 0]

After all he didn't do it for money...

Actually, that's exactly why he did it.  A short while after moving to Australia he was convinced by a friend that he could get a lot of money from the media for what he knew.

- more details -

- ME Thread discussion -

I stand corrected for the second time today

[Acecombat 0]

*reflects nostalgically* Aaaah...the Off Topic forum. Our own little virtual Gaza strip  

*Bang* , your dead tigershark

So whats all the hysteria around Vannu , has he got more to speak about? What more could he have? Location of nukes? Why didnt he told about them back then maybe he doesnt know? If hes got info on conventional weaponry then forget it , not useful at all when nukes come in to play all that stuff is useless since no one wants to provocate anyone.

So whats the reason for keeping him tied down? If you wanna keephim down might as well throw him in jail again , who knows he might tell someone something in israel and pass it on ...

[Blake 0]

Quote[/b] ]If the person had been indian, pakistani, iranian or iraqi he would have been thought of as a hero in Israel too!

Probably, but that doesn't take away the right from those countries to punishing those individuals breaking their military secrecy agreements.

[brgnorway 0]

Quote[/b] ]If the person had been indian, pakistani, iranian or iraqi he would have been thought of as a hero in Israel too!

Probably, but that doesn't take away the right from those countries to punishing those individuals breaking their military secrecy agreements.

That is true and I never opposed the fact that he was sentenced and had to go to jail. I do however dislike the current legal arrangements because he already did his time and the conditions forced upon him are unreasonable.

After all, what's the point in releasing people if the ones who does their time are not given back their democratic rights?

[turms 0]

Quote[/b] ]If the person had been indian, pakistani, iranian or iraqi he would have been thought of as a hero in Israel too!

Probably, but that doesn't take away the right from those countries to punishing those individuals breaking their military secrecy agreements.

Well the thing is that he has suffered his sentence. As to the what data he has given to whom, or how is he a threat to anyone is not our thing to prove, but duty of those who jailed him again, and those who defend the jailing. Afterall you dont jail people on the basis that the suspects must proove that they didnt do anything.

[Blake 0]

Quote[/b] ]Afterall you dont jail people on the basis that the suspects must proove that they didnt do anything.

Quote[/b] ]Strict conditions were imposed on him after release, including a ban on giving interviews to foreign media.

However, Mr Vanunu has repeatedly been in contact with journalists and was interviewed on BBC television a couple of weeks ago.

He couldn't keep his mouth shut while he agreed to do so, so what is the so-called legal problem here  

And since when have been revealing secrets which he swore by oath not to tell anybody considered 'restricting democratic freedoms' ?

[theavonlady 2]

Well the thing is that he has suffered his sentence.

But continues to violate hsi release agreement as well as his original government employee terms.

Quote[/b] ]As to the what data he has given to whom, or how is he a threat to anyone is not our thing to prove, but duty of those who jailed him again, and those who defend the jailing.

So you admit that if he's being accused of such, then it's justified to rearrest him, just like anyone else committing a criminal act.

Quote[/b] ]After all you dont jail people on the basis that the suspects must proove that they didnt do anything.

Who told you that's why he was jailed?

[sputnik monroe 102]

I'm having trouble seeing what the big deal is. It sounds like some guy broke his probation and thus is going back to jail.

Am I missing something here?

[bn880 5]

what "classified state secrets" he publiziced this time?

<span style='font-size:27pt;line-height:100%'>I CAN'T TELL YOU!</span>

BS, if you arrest someone you must make it clear why, if you do not your institution should be burned to the ground. Same goes for all the people being captive for "security" reasons here and in the US of A. It is a bunch of bullshit, and it will be remembered in histroy as such, just like what Nazis used to do. Unjustified proscecution.

let me put it another way: If you can not make it clear exactly what you are accusing your prisonner of, then let him go. You can not have hte cake and eat it too, unless you are an SOB organization with nothing but injustice running it.

[brgnorway 0]

Quote[/b] ]He couldn't keep his mouth shut while he agreed to do so, so what is the so-called legal problem here

Actually, after being in prison for that many years I can imagine I'd do anything to get out.

Second point: he was sentenced to a specific number of years to spend in jail. Have you ever heard of legal arrangements where your freedom has been taken away after you've come back into society as a normal citizen?

So you tell me when the sentence ends. When the court decided it would or when the israeli government feels like it?

Then there's the moral side to it. Do you think it's right to take away a persons freedom or restrict it when he's supposed to be a free man? Is that worthy of a democratic nation?

How many sentences can a man get for stealing/lying/deceiving/betraying?

Quote[/b] ]And since when have been revealing secrets which he swore by oath not to tell anybody considered 'restricting democratic freedoms' ?

No it wouldn't be in the old soviet state at least........

[theavonlady 2]

what "classified state secrets" he publiziced this time?

<span style='font-size:27pt;line-height:100%'>I CAN'T TELL YOU!</span>

BS, if you arrest someone you must make it clear why,

They did, at least as much as possible:

Quote[/b] ]A-G orders Vanunu arrested

By YAAKOV KATZ AND ARIEH O'SULLIVAN

Nuclear spy Mordechai Vanunu was arrested in Jeruslaem Thursday morning by the Police International Crimes Unit for allegedly passing on classified information.

Police said that a search was carried out in his room at the Saint George Anglican Church in East Jerusalem during which classified material was found.

Police said that the investigation and search of Vanunu's room was coordinated with Attorney General Menahem Mazuz.

The only BS I smell here is the kind that's being served up on this thread as true concern for a poor foresaken soul like Vannunu.

[Blake 0]

I see only normal legal procedure.

The guy was a government contractor, he signed an agreement of secrecy, broke it, got jailed, broke the terms of his release and repeated his previous crime, got arrested again. Really big deal.

Except it seems to be the case of innocent freedom-loving individual vs. bad evil Israel to some people.

Are you really believing that there is no such thing as legally binding agreement?

[bn880 5]

what "classified state secrets" he publiziced this time?

<span style='font-size:27pt;line-height:100%'>I CAN'T TELL YOU!</span>

BS, if you arrest someone you must make it clear why,

They did, at least as much as possible:

Quote[/b] ]A-G orders Vanunu arrested

By YAAKOV KATZ AND ARIEH O'SULLIVAN

Nuclear spy Mordechai Vanunu was arrested in Jeruslaem Thursday morning by the Police International Crimes Unit for allegedly passing on classified information.

Police said that a search was carried out in his room at the Saint George Anglican Church in East Jerusalem during which classified material was found.

Police said that the investigation and search of Vanunu's room was coordinated with Attorney General Menahem Mazuz.

The only BS I smell here is the kind that's being served up on this thread as true concern for a poor foresaken soul like Vannunu.

Well okay, hopefully they can show proof of this in court, but eeh, who knows if the guy wasn't framed. I wonder how this guy has classified materials after 18 years in prison, unless they are historical documents...