European Politics Thread.

[JdB 151]

So what if he's siding with the nazis? So what if they recruit more lowlives?

Nazi's and their beliefs are outlawed in various European nations, so recruiting for them would be illegal

[harley 3 1185 0]

I don't condone anything Irving says or does, but Austria playing hardball 16 years later doesn't exactly strike me as sound. Surely to God there are actual Nazi war criminals still wandering the streets of old Vienna and Salzburg who could have been hunted down in the last two decades instead of someone keeping an anxious eye on Irving's docket, praying for him to come back.

Irving had already been absolutely broken after that libel suit against an old bag a few years back - his reputation was already in tatters - throwing him in jail achieves what?

Apart from reminding us that Hitler was an Austrian and became anti-semitic and totally intolerant in Austria, let us also recall that Irving wasn't exactly recruiting for a restoration of the Third Reich all those years ago - he was preaching to the proverbial choir. The preposterous notion that the death-camps were a fabrication isn't exactly going to fall on deaf ears is it when you're talking to a hall full of Neo-Nazi Hitler worshippers?

The word Hypocrisy recurs way too many times when thinking of Irving's imprisonment in light of recent events. This isn't exactly going to impress our Middle Eastern friends now is it?

[Bordoy 0]

Ridiculous, got all the european countries going to the rest shouting 'free speech' and waving danish flags, yet go against Free Speech and covict this guy.

[denoir 0]

I´m sorry Denoir but have you ever read something of that guy ?

He´s a facist, a racist a deniar of history and a liar.

I know perfectly well what kind of a creature he is. This is not however about him, but about Austria and some of the other European countries that have this restriction on free speech.

I'm far more worried about the state that throws people into jail for speaking their mind than I am of a bunch of neo-Nazi thugs.

[Monkey Lib Front 10]

In theory i could be arrested for preaching that i don't believe 6 million jews died? maybe if i said say 5 or 4 million, this goes right to the core values of free speech you cannot do this if you hold those values as a democracy.

[harley 3 1185 0]

Well, seeing as "Glorifying Terrorism" is a crime here in Great Britain, would some smart-ass Jewish boy go to jail if he praised the terror campaigns of the Irgun and Stern gang against the British from '44-'48? Hmm wait, I actually agree with that concept, but I know it's totally wrong.

Just as I know its wrong that Irving should be thrown into a foreign jail for mere words - my argument is that seeing as he was already dealing with a deranged captive audience, there' no incitement to racial hatred or whatever anti-defamatory law they could throw at him. Letting him rot in an Austrian jail by design is no more right than letting a British subject rot in Guantanamo without a trial.

He's a fool, but he's our fool, so let us have Sturmbannfuhrer Charles Clarke deal with him.

[denoir 0]

Well, not quite. First of all, he has been jailed in another EU state, which is perfectly legal according to the rules. Nothing strange about that. With the current framework (especially with a European arrest warrant), had he been in the UK, British police would have arrested him and sent him to Austria for trial-

Second, he committed the crime in Austria, so he is jailed there - also nothing strange.

The problem in this case is not law enforcement or the legal system, but the law itself.

[HotShot 0]

I thought this was interesting:

Quote[/b] ]

EU launches broadcasts to Belarus

An EU-funded radio station has begun broadcasting into Belarus to offer Belarussians "independent" news ahead of next month's election.

Lithuanian-based Baltic Waves will broadcast a daily hour-long bulletin of news, music and information on Europe.

Belarus President Alexander Lukashenko - called Europe's last dictator by the US - is accused of stifling the media.

A Polish-funded radio station, Radio Racja, began broadcasting into Belarus earlier this week.

Baltic Waves is being run by a team of Polish, Lithuanian, German, Russian and Belarussian journalists from Vilnius.

It is part of a wider two million euro ($2.4m) package of measures by the EU to support Belarussian journalists and promote an independent media in the country.

Weekly half-hour television programmes are due to be broadcast soon.

Source

Its not something i would have thought the EU would of gotten into, as it sounds more like something from wars or in the cold war.

Also, couldn't the Belarus goverment just block the broadcasts? I dont know how they are braodcasting, but however it is, i would have thought they could just block the frequency or scramble it or something. If Belarus couldnt do it themselves, i'm sure Putin would help them out??

Maybe they arn't quite as hard arse as i am thinking though and they dont care about the broadcast?

Related to this (as i'm sure the broadcast was delibertly started before elections) is the stuff about possibilitys of a revolution in this article.

[EiZei 0]

Also, couldn't the Belarus goverment just block the broadcasts? I dont know how they are braodcasting, but however it is, i would have thought they could just block the frequency or scramble it or something. If Belarus couldnt do it themselves, i'm sure Putin would help them out??

The estonians could easily receive our television broadcasts during the cold war (one of the reasons they were particularly dissatisfied with the regime) and even the soviets could'nt effectively block those even though we were not delibarately broadcasting to Estonia.

North koreans have however solved this "problem." Getting caught with a radio set that can be tuned to anything but certain frequencies occupied by goverment radio stations means spending some quality time in some concentration camp or worse.

Just glad to see our goverments furthering freedom of speech instead of restricting it for a change.

[mattxr 9]

Who thinks the UN is going to invade Iran?

Quote[/b] ]Iran will proceed with its nuclear programme regardless of any UN action, Tehran's nuclear delegation says.

[harley 3 1185 0]

That's got to be the biggest baiting in history, hasn't it?

As UN troops over-run the Nuclear Facility, technicians fight to the last man whilst scientists duck bullets and bombs to continue the Nuclear programme of the motherland...

Is that what the delegation is envisaging?

[EiZei 0]

European politics thread?

[EiZei 0]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/4785474.stm

Quote[/b] ]

EU calls for joint energy policy

European Commission president Jose Manuel Barroso

Mr Barroso wants the EU's energy market to reform quickly

The European Union has called on member states to work together to ensure steady and secure energy supplies.

The European Commission said in a green paper on energy that the EU's joint bargaining power would be second only to the US and let it get better deals.

EC president Jose Manuel Barroso said that "political will" was now needed.

The vision of a more unified power market may stumble, however, as nations including France, Spain, Italy and Germany fight to control key providers.

Probably certain people will make sure that we won't get new nukers and common waste sites but a man can dream..

Did'nt take too long till some green was preaching about the benefits of windmills on bbc world interview.

[iNeo 0]

Quote[/b] ]"We wage war on the Swedes"

[...] The interviewees are youngsters with non-Swedish backgrounds and are between 15-17 years old.

[...]

Furthermore, the interviewees explain that they mainly rob Swedish teenagers (young men) as these are stingy, mean and cowardly.

[...]

(In Swedish, page 27-30) "When we're downtown robbing people, we're at war, we're at war with the Swedes!" [...] "Power for me is Swedes looking at me, laying down on the street and kissing me feet." The boy says that it's only Swedes who are to kiss his feet and that it wouldn't be at all the same if others did it. [...] "They're so afraid, they don't dare going outdoors, the Swedes we rob don't dare going outdoors." [...] "The Swedes don't like us, all the Swedes hate us."

[HotShot 0]

When was that research done though as wasn't Cohen doing that sort of stuff in 1950's?

[iNeo 0]

When was that research done though as wasn't Cohen doing that sort of stuff in 1950's?

Don't know exactly, but if you look at the references, the very last line of the pdf file, you see she's refering to a website as of 21st of April 2005 (20050421).

Oh I just checked the main page (Lund University's sociology "department"), http://www.sociologi.lu.se, and it's among the latest published things and dated 060314, id est 14th of March 2006.

[iNeo 0]

Quote[/b] ]Eta declares permanent ceasefire

The Basque separatist group Eta has declared a permanent ceasefire.

[...]

In a statement released to Basque media, the group said its objective now was "to start a new democratic process in the Basque country".

[...]

Hope it doesn't mean they give up if this doesn't lead anywhere

[Colossus 2]

The old threat dies while the young emerges.

[EiZei 0]

Died a long time ago.

[kakagoegie 0]

There's a new political party in the Netherlands. The Party for the Foreigners (With foreigners, it means "allochtonen", they are mostly from Morrocan or Turkish decent. The dutch abreviation for the party is PAN.

Here are a few things they want. I'll try to translate it as good as I can.

Quote[/b] ]There should be a department of cultural development, the headscarf should be accepted everywhere and companies are obliged to employ foreigners (allochtonen). Turkey should be accepted into the EU as soon as possible. All illigal foreigners currently staying more than 5 years in the Netherlands should be allowed to stay. They want to restore contact with the radicalised muslim yought and they want to take them out of isolation. Inburgeringscursussen (foreigners have to take this exam and pass it to stay in the Netherlands) should be abolished. Instead their should be some kind of "training" for foreigners AND dutchmen. The dutch should learn about the multicultural society. They also want the school uniform back.

sourch, in dutch

Is it just me, or is this party just a bit messed up. I'm not a racist, but I don't want to know about the cultures like Islam. The dutch culture is enough for me.

And giving a job to someone because he's from foreign decent, isn't that racist towards the common dutch man?

So, what do you think about it. Would this party enlighten dutch politics or do you have the same "wtf-feeling" as I do?

[Supah 0]

There's a new political party in the Netherlands. The Party for the Foreigners (With foreigners, it means "allochtonen", they are mostly from Morrocan or Turkish decent. The dutch abreviation for the party is PAN.

Here are a few things they want. I'll try to translate it as good as I can.

Quote[/b] ]There should be a department of cultural development, the headscarf should be accepted everywhere and companies are obliged to employ foreigners (allochtonen). Turkey should be accepted into the EU as soon as possible. All illigal foreigners currently staying more than 5 years in the Netherlands should be allowed to stay. They want to restore contact with the radicalised muslim yought and they want to take them out of isolation. Inburgeringscursussen (foreigners have to take this exam and pass it to stay in the Netherlands) should be abolished. Instead their should be some kind of "training" for foreigners AND dutchmen. The dutch should learn about the multicultural society. They also want the school uniform back.

sourch, in dutch

Is it just me, or is this party just a bit messed up. I'm not a racist, but I don't want to know about the cultures like Islam. The dutch culture is enough for me.

And giving a job to someone because he's from foreign decent, isn't that racist towards the common dutch man?

So, what do you think about it. Would this party enlighten dutch politics or do you have the same "wtf-feeling" as I do?

To be honest quoting Fok! as a news source makes you look really really really really really bad in my book. As a news source it is the most deplorable piece of shit I have ever seen. Re-establishing contact with radicalised youth to me doesnt sound like such a bad idea. You are not going to get anywhere without dialogue. If in the end they still dont want to play nice you can always deport them to their country of origine and if that cant be determined to Iran. For the rest the PAN's idea's are about as stupid as most political parties ideas.

[kakagoegie 0]

To be honest quoting Fok! as a news source makes you look really really really really really bad in my book. As a news source it is the most deplorable piece of shit I have ever seen.

I first learnt about the PAN when reading the NRC handelsblad, if that's a more reliable source to you. But I couldn't find the article on the NRC website. So I googled for it. Sometimes Fok! is a bit bitchy, but this article was about the same as NRC.

[iNeo 0]

Quote[/b] ]"We wage war on the Swedes"

And now in the (Swedish) news: "Immigrants wage war on Swedes through robbery". Basically the same as in the report.

[denoir 0]

Oh give me a break, DN is really losing it. Somebody should give the people there a crash course in statistics: interviewing 11 people (not even random, but convicted criminals) does not constitute a valid survey.

One day they publish alarmist bullshit (also with questionable statistical foundation) claiming that 30% of the Swedish population is anti-Semitic and then the next they they publish crap like this.

And as for the study, I can't believe my tax money goes wasted on crap like that. I mean what are the conclusion you can reasonable draw? That 11 immigrant youth criminals don't like the Swedish youth? Wow, that's really some valuable insight.

If I should write DN a mail saying that I question their professionalism, do you think they will publish it with a headline saying "Svenska folket ifrĺgasätter DNs yrkeskompetens" ("The Swedish people questions DN's professionalism")? It would have exactly the same statistical significance as their headline on immigrant youth hating Swedish youth.

The Swedish People (i.e me) have spoken. Now we will go to bed.

[xawery 0]

I first learnt about the PAN when reading the NRC handelsblad, if that's a more reliable source to you. But I couldn't find the article on the NRC website. So I googled for it. Sometimes Fok! is a bit bitchy, but this article was about the same as NRC.

The two articles are quite different, but I can't say that the Fok article is biased or unbalanced. You can find the NRC article here. However, you will most likely have to be a subscriber to read it.

I have mixed feelings about this party. I agree that the polarising politics of Wilders and similar 'elements' are hardly productive, and that a counter-balance is needed. I do wonder, however, how one hopes to promote the 'we'-feeling by giving it's party such a polarising name. Why in god's name do you call yourself the Foreigners' Party and then claim that your party is for all Dutchmen?

Their idea's don't really appeal to me either. School uniforms? We're not living in the fifties... Headscarves everywhere? Nope, as far as I'm concerned, all display of religious symbols (of all religions) should be banned from the public domain... If you feel the need to believe in fairy tales, that's fine by me, but do it at home. And don't expect me to muster any extra respect for your irrational beliefs.