European Politics Thread.

[bardosy 154]

@dontknowhow:

We both are gamers. I think we both played Civilization or SimCity. We both know, how things works in the real world.

The thing "Equality" or "Human Right" or "Fair Partnerships" are a product, a political product. The politicians never believed in these, but these are product what they want to sell. They get power and money from these product.

I really hope you never believed in "Exporting Democracy" when USA invade Iraq. They invade to get their hands to oil. It's really clear.

The EU is working the very same way as USA: the founders (France and Germany) need markets (and sometimes cheap workers), but mostly markets. So they invite the eastern-european countries into EU, but when they sign the joining document, there was a lot of exception with small letters. Exception like: you cannot buy our land/farms, but we can buy your land, you will not get supportive payment, as our farmers get.... etc. And Germany and France (or to you to understand: German and French companies) get their new market. No other companies (China, Russia, USA) can touch that new market. So they can do what they want. No rules. If the market (what we called colonies) try to make something against the companies without competitors, these companies run home and complain and use brutal political and diplomatic force against the rebels.

 

You call it "C'est la vie" and we call it "colony".

 

We sucked this system, but Merkel did great job until this summer, because eastern europe accept this situation and accept we are colony of Brussel.

If nothing changed, we don't talk about this now. But since summer changed everything.

Immigrants came, and Merkel said: Germany will not host these bastards, so let send them to the colonies and she found out the "Quota" and force it to eastern europe. And this was the last drop in the glass. We accept all the shit, but not this. We were in silence, but not anymore. If Germans host the immigrants, they can do. But don't send them to the colonies!

 

This is why we talk about this shit.

[bardosy 154]

@Tonci87:

 

I'm asking, it's not a statement.

You said there is no confiscation. I read today in a hungarian newspaper, that city hall confiscated the flat from a nurse in Nieheim. Shes very poor with two kids and city hall didn't offer other flat, so she has to move to the street with two kids, because of immigrants.

Can you confirm me what really happened in Nieheim?

 

I really believe all media lie in this story because they have interests in one or the other side. It could be great if you know anything about this specific story.

(If there are more Nieheim in Germany, I know a name "Bettina Halbey", but I'm not sure she is the nurse, or she know the nurse. But I hope this name will help you to find the truth.)

[vilas 473]

And its really about combating rent prices in cities going up and helping people in need at the same time. 

 

do you have natives who are in need ? if no, than it is different situation, 

but if there are young natives who cannot afford to have family because they have no room, than it only makes me stronger in my belief, 

 

 

 

You always say that the flats are so expensive, guess why that is. House owners (and real estate brokers) are doing the same thing in Poland. A lot of flats are beeing kept empty on purpose to bring up property prices.

 

but in economy if i produce something - i can say whatever price i want, because this is property and economy

i know what you say, but i disagree due to property and ownership rights, 

also if someone decided "i will earn milion on this job, i can wait even 5 years" than it is his economical plan, we cannot do following "you will earn 100 000 instead of milion" because otherwise he would not touch finger (move finger, i do not know is it good phrasal verb "to move finger" )

comparing to addons, lets say , 3 moders in community are present, we sit and agree "we do car but for 1000 USD for VBS" 

okay, and we all agreed, army must pay us 1000 or army can go to hell, all keep same price, 

noone, i repeat, noone can come with rifle and tell us "do this car for 200, if you offer 200, noone will do it cause we have dignity and we won't work for money that street cleaner has, we are educated"

because for 200 i can sit on chair and listen to music, and in such case it is owner/investor right, because his business plan is from his property right, 

i do not say if those people need or not, just that property should be respected, 

i moan on salary  more than on prices, price is what seller wants, i moan on low salaries that do not allow to buy by locals (because in fact most of our "standing empty" apartments worthy milion have owners just from abroad and owner comes from time to time when he is on business or his family need it or it is his investment for future, like bank locate , bank deposit, such flat is his deposit, he paid now milion cause he knows that in 5 years it will be 1.5 milion ), 

if we allow to "put locators into other company build buildings" it may end with what commies done, 

simply we should be very aware on property, censorship and such like issues, because crossing little barrier now, can cause that in future other politician will cross other barrier, 

property vs other people rights was always problematic (preWW2 and post WW2 ownership issues in connection with communism, and as person who come from ex-commie country i am very sensitive on things such as property , cenzorship, gun rights, tradition, language, nationality, sovereignty in decisions )

in Poland we have people who need help (mother with daughter, who lost leg during car accident and who has no job, she needs flat, a man who was musician but lost hand in car accident, he cannot earn money and need flats, such people apply for free flat, but city hall answers "we have flats for muslims", friend of my apply for such flat, 2 other friends work in London only to earn money on flat and back to Poland in few years, i work in 3 companies 7 days a week 12 hours daily also to earn money on flat and i cannot accept that from my taxes forced by state muslim will get it and start organize there sharia patrol or bring 5 kids and demand bigger )

i gave example in link 2 -3 weeks ago, a woman without leg, she can be homeless, a man living in his car, etc. 

usual pension here also is very very low and old people have problems to pay for rent, and what if they will be evicted for not paying and flat given to imigrant for free ? insane , and this imigrant will get benefit bigger than pension of old lady who worked 40 years ? i repeat  = Polish benefit for unemployed who worked at least 12 month in period of 18 months, paid by 3 months - 820 PLN, refugee benefit 1335+housing cost, pension of many old people 1200, shop assistant salary in grocery shop 1300,

i was earning in my institution 2300 if i paid housing costs i had left 1000 , now refugee will get 1335 (PER PERSON !!!!) , how that can be  ? moreover, EU commision say that it is too low,and he should have 700 Euro (2900 PLN), in ministry my friends earn less than 700  , my last salary in department was 666 (realy, satan yea) € and it was very big cause i was "senior specialist" (highest position, above me is only director of that department), and EC say "give them  700 Euro" , and Shultz say to use force to make us give them flats, and our government say to local mayors "we ask to give any flat you have to refugees" , if goddamn invade bring his 2 kids and wife, from benefits they will have few times more than hardworking educated couple, 4 refugees on benefits have money equal to 2 people working in ministry + 2 kids, insane , 2 not work , 2 had to graduate university and have serious responsible job, 

unemployed native who lost job must pay for rent, immigrant not, such things cannot be accepted and i cannot wait when those elections in my country change government in next month, (civic platform ordered poll, hahahaha, they get 19% while main opposition 48%, hahahaha)

because from one side you have poor people that cannot afford, from other side you have owner , it will be always disputable, but when there are natives and locals who need help, than giving it to foreigners is unacceptable for me at least,  in Germany you have probably more Bettina Halbey-like people , 

another problem is - if you give them now for free, they will demand more and more and bring families, than it is step closer to another islamic ghetto, 

------------

 

edit:

http://niezalezna.pl/71492-koalicja-po-psl-na-emerytury-moze-zabraknac

one Polish minister has enough, he said to press that there is risk that there will be no money in budget for pensions soon

http://niezalezna.pl/71490-dziennikarze-piszacy-o-aferze-tasmowej-maja-ujawnic-informatorow-skandaliczna-decyzja-sadu

Polish court orders to journalists to tell who was information, court demands from journalists breaking secret and reveal who was informing about corruption, a Polish watergate (wire typed tapes that can be found on YT) hit government and elites, parliament changed law so such tapes are no longer proof, they arrested people who worked in restaurant in which politicians discussed, now court goes further and also want to hit journalists who published details about corruption because someone decent in special services for sure was helping to record politicians, 

http://wpolityce.pl/polityka/267193-przerazajace-swiadectwo-miriam-shaded-islam-to-demoniczna-religia-jak-przyjdzie-na-to-czas-muzulmanie-beda-zabijac-polakow

native Syrian woman , Christian who help Syrian chrisians said in interview "islam is demonic religion of people who will gonna slaughter us, there is no good and bad islam, there is one islam"

http://niezalezna.pl/71479-101-rzeczy-zniknelo-z-palacu-co-bylo-na-liscie-komorowskiego-nowe-fakty

previously i wrote that from former leftist president "disappeared" few arts, paintings, sculpture , former president in interview said "aa some tiny pictures ?" and do not wanted to talk more, 

now after last research new president office found that... over 100 things disappeared, including audio-visual equipment, also former president "borrowed" to his new residence some furniture (as you can expect in president office there was no cheap furniture from ikea or jysk), also one of "disappeared" paintings was found to be sold in June on art auction (in June he lost elections) 

[dontknowhow 33]

are you paid by bank, EU, some corporations ? because you twist reality and morality totally - or it is western type of thinking?

i have nothing to discuss with you if you say that those things aren't happening or they are not wrong

look, I'll say that again. I'm trying to be nice. See if you can do the same, okay? This attitude won't bring anything good.

 

 

because of western corporations, banks etc, people here live poor, mass emigration  etc. 

11 bilions of euros, which should be left here as taxes, fly away abroad every year and it is fact, not theory

Again, fact according to who? Who says that this 11 billion should be left there as taxes? You? Then the fact is irrelevant. Your government? Then your fact is a report of illegal activity, and your government should investigate it. No one? Then join the group of people unhappy with the fiscal policy of their country. As I have shown with a link to an interesting article, you are in good company.

In any case I don't see how you can blame the EU

 

 

supermarkets get dotations abroad so they are killing our shops and this is fact

bribes paid by many corporations killed our industry and now we have huge debts

You keep mentioning bribes. Are these facts? How many bribes have actually been proved? And if there is such a big bribing scheme going on, who is to blame, who gives the bribes or who takes them? If Germany can bribe so easily, why can't Russia, the mob, ISIS?

 

 

bla bla , i am talking what happened to Poland in 90s, 

country which now has 6% emigrated for job, 15% among working age, country with huge debts, 

where half milion of kids are suffering malnutrition, where educated nearly 40 years old people live with parents cause they cannot afford own flats, 

country where foreign business do whatever they want while own business has only problems

balming west is unfair ?

Again, you are talking about an economy that was in pretty bad shape. You mention facts, but you use them to jump to conclusions.

Do this: try to consider the same situation without the EU. Do you think it would have been better? I had an idea of the Polish economy at the time, I really think the answer is no.

Yes, I stand by my opinion. Blaming the west is unfair. It might be not nice, but it's true.

 

 

Lidl gets money from western funds to cut our shops here , due to this people like my neigbor bankrupt (my neighbor had grocery shop, he couldn't stand competition of foreign shop which doesn't pay 19% tax)

my uncle was director in one electronic company, one corporations bough it from government in 1989, destroyed buildings, took production machines to Germany and closed all,

The article doesn't really say that there is uncompetitive pricing. Once more, that is illegal. So you can gather some evidence and go to Margrethe Vestager. I'm sure she will be happy to listen to you. Until that time, it is fair that you at least consider the option that people simply preferred to go to Lidl instead of your neighbor's store. That's the reason for the free market.

 

 

@dontknowhow:

We both are gamers. I think we both played Civilization or SimCity. We both know, how things works in the real world.

The thing "Equality" or "Human Right" or "Fair Partnerships" are a product, a political product. The politicians never believed in these, but these are product what they want to sell. They get power and money from these product.

I really hope you never believed in "Exporting Democracy" when USA invade Iraq. They invade to get their hands to oil. It's really clear.

The EU is working the very same way as USA: the founders (France and Germany) need markets (and sometimes cheap workers), but mostly markets. So they invite the eastern-european countries into EU, but when they sign the joining document, there was a lot of exception with small letters. Exception like: you cannot buy our land/farms, but we can buy your land, you will not get supportive payment, as our farmers get.... etc. And Germany and France (or to you to understand: German and French companies) get their new market. No other companies (China, Russia, USA) can touch that new market. So they can do what they want. No rules. If the market (what we called colonies) try to make something against the companies without competitors, these companies run home and complain and use brutal political and diplomatic force against the rebels.

I definitely would not compare you with Iraq. Two worlds apart. And if you say that there was all this exploitation clearly stated in the treaties at the beginning then it must be readable somewhere; I  honestly find it hard to believe. Maybe you can find something to back your statements. If you find something I will be happy to do my own research.

As a side note: the EU has 6 founders, not just France and Germany.

 

 

We sucked this system, but Merkel did great job until this summer, because eastern europe accept this situation and accept we are colony of Brussel.

If nothing changed, we don't talk about this now. But since summer changed everything.

Immigrants came, and Merkel said: Germany will not host these bastards, so let send them to the colonies and she found out the "Quota" and force it to eastern europe. And this was the last drop in the glass. We accept all the shit, but not this. We were in silence, but not anymore. If Germans host the immigrants, they can do. But don't send them to the colonies!

 

This is why we talk about this shit.

Well, I did my best to show that there is some fairness. My point was to show that there is no profit to be made from ruining an economy, and that there are no colonies. Now we are switching attention to the refugees problem. If that's the problem, I honestly find this so called discussion enough; I'm not going to start a new one. But I find complaining about colonialism because of that without basis

[Tonci87 163]

@Tonci87:

 

I'm asking, it's not a statement.

You said there is no confiscation. I read today in a hungarian newspaper, that city hall confiscated the flat from a nurse in Nieheim. Shes very poor with two kids and city hall didn't offer other flat, so she has to move to the street with two kids, because of immigrants.

Can you confirm me what really happened in Nieheim?

 

I really believe all media lie in this story because they have interests in one or the other side. It could be great if you know anything about this specific story.

(If there are more Nieheim in Germany, I know a name "Bettina Halbey", but I'm not sure she is the nurse, or she know the nurse. But I hope this name will help you to find the truth.)

 

 

I´ve did a little digging and the story is at least half true.

 

She did loose the flat she was living in, however it was not her flat. The house she was living in belongs to the town and the town decided to end the rent contract because they need the space to house asylum seekers.

I doubt she is very poor, otherwise she wouldn´t have been able to afford that 90m² flat in the first place (I guess a flat that size will be divided into two flats). She is also getting assistance from the town in finding a new flat. And your newspaper also forgot to mention that she has time until May 2016 to move out.

It is every homeowners right to end a rent contact if he needs the space himself.

[vilas 473]

It is every homeowners right to end a rent contact if he needs the space himself.

 

for foreigners instead of natives - says all about Merkel government ;) one far right voter more maybe her friends too ;)

btw how this owner right you mention has to hiring blocks that stand empty ;) you see ownership right is complicated issue

 

---------------

dontknowhow - ignorance of facts which i shown many times is speechless,

i pasted links many times about 11 bilions and VAT and other things, but proofs against your belief (or you work for them) you don't want to see, i do not want to repeate again and again and again links posted here 10 times, 11 bilions is 19% of profits of foreign corporations that do not pay tax in Poland in fiscal year,

even European Comission confirmed it and noticed problem few weeks ago because other countries also loose because several big corporations are registered in Luxembourg, many journalists write about it for years here etc.

and when you say about proof for corruption - the best proof is decision made by officials - local shop pay 19% tax, foreign shop is free from tax by administrative decision of Ministry of Finances, this is the best proof,

another proof was said about fact that instead of cash , in job i and Barosy were paid by Sodexo tickets to be utilized in Carrefours,

another proof is when company which is worthy 120 milions and belong to state and creating profit/income like 4 milion by year is sold for 9 milions for example,

another proof is that whole Polish banking sector was sold for less than 1/3 of money hold in those banks by clients plus... it was sold for profits generated in period of 4 years

 

if bank creates 1 milion profit per year, customers keep in this bank 12 milion, how can it be sold for 4 milions?

in fifth year new owner is on plus

there were Polish companies in 90s sold for LESS money then GROUND is worth under them, so as flat plazza this area was worthy more than they privatized company,

for example big plant in one city has 12 hectares, those 12 hectares are worthy 10 milions, for developers to build flats, developers would pay 10 milions for that land,

but someone sold such plant for 1 milion, and foreign corporation opened there their facility and ministry of finance gave individual tax release for 5 years, and later minister goes to work to foreign bank as "advisor",

such examples are often

 

but of course you ignore such infos and on next side you will tell "those are just false and not justified feelings, give a solid proof for your theory"

you said someone've come here to do medical things cheaper, yea,

and we cannot afford this medical treatment someone from west bought here cheaper or we wait few months to get to doctor for free (refunded),

people here moan that visit to specialistic doctor term is half year or more in queue, there is here another pathology - medical centers and doctors in one room take patient from social insurance (and such patient waits) or without queue for money (as wrote pages ago - sometimes from west because here it is cheaper) , so if we wait in queue, because someone from abroad came with money...

now you have answer about colony

[bardosy 154]

I´ve did a little digging and the story is at least half true.

Thank you for the clarification!

[bardosy 154]

Well, I did my best to show that there is some fairness. My point was to show that there is no profit to be made from ruining an economy, and that there are no colonies. Now we are switching attention to the refugees problem. If that's the problem, I honestly find this so called discussion enough; I'm not going to start a new one. But I find complaining about colonialism because of that without basis

No, I don't want change subject. But I want to make it clear, why we took this topic out. And yes, the cause of talking about how unfair is the EU, is the immigration crisis. You can drop it - it's up to you - but you have to know, all this what we talking about is strongly connected with immigrants and how arrogant is Germany in this topic.

And no, you failed to show me there is no profit in ruining other country's economy, because I saw how it works and how countries became richer with ruining other countries' economy.

[Tonci87 163]

for foreigners instead of natives - says all about Merkel government ;) one far right voter more maybe her friends too ;)

btw how this owner right you mention has to hiring blocks that stand empty ;) you see ownership right is complicated issue

 

---------------

dontknowhow - ignorance of facts which i shown many times is speechless,

i pasted links many times about 11 bilions and VAT and other things, but proofs against your belief (or you work for them) you don't want to see, i do not want to repeate again and again and again links posted here 10 times, 11 bilions is 19% of profits of foreign corporations that do not pay tax in Poland in fiscal year,

even European Comission confirmed it and noticed problem few weeks ago because other countries also loose because several big corporations are registered in Luxembourg, many journalists write about it for years here etc.

and when you say about proof for corruption - the best proof is decision made by officials - local shop pay 19% tax, foreign shop is free from tax by administrative decision of Ministry of Finances, this is the best proof,

another proof was said about fact that instead of cash , in job i and Barosy were paid by Sodexo tickets to be utilized in Carrefours,

another proof is when company which is worthy 120 milions and belong to state and creating profit/income like 4 milion by year is sold for 9 milions for example,

another proof is that whole Polish banking sector was sold for less than 1/3 of money hold in those banks by clients plus... it was sold for profits generated in period of 4 years

 

if bank creates 1 milion profit per year, customers keep in this bank 12 milion, how can it be sold for 4 milions?

in fifth year new owner is on plus

there were Polish companies in 90s sold for LESS money then GROUND is worth under them, so as flat plazza this area was worthy more than they privatized company,

for example big plant in one city has 12 hectares, those 12 hectares are worthy 10 milions, for developers to build flats, developers would pay 10 milions for that land,

but someone sold such plant for 1 milion, and foreign corporation opened there their facility and ministry of finance gave individual tax release for 5 years, and later minister goes to work to foreign bank as "advisor",

such examples are often

 

but of course you ignore such infos and on next side you will tell "those are just false and not justified feelings, give a solid proof for your theory"

you said someone've come here to do medical things cheaper, yea,

and we cannot afford this medical treatment someone from west bought here cheaper or we wait few months to get to doctor for free (refunded),

people here moan that visit to specialistic doctor term is half year or more in queue, there is here another pathology - medical centers and doctors in one room take patient from social insurance (and such patient waits) or without queue for money (as wrote pages ago - sometimes from west because here it is cheaper) , so if we wait in queue, because someone from abroad came with money...

now you have answer about colony

 

 

Oh Vilas, weren´t you the one who said that the owner should be able to do what he wants with his property? I see, you only think that way if fugitives are concerned...

 

In this case the town simply didn´t have other options. They can´t build in time, so hey have to use what they already own (making people rent out their empty flats is only allowed after the town has exhausted all other options)

[vilas 473]

so as you see it is 2 sided coin,

owner of flat of this lady - city

and private owners of those empty blocks too who would like to keep high price and exclusive neigborhood and new law says it can be done against their will (even if empty)

2 sides of coin

-----

unity in EU after signing Nordstream 2 which hits Poland, Slovakia and Ukraine, now Germany signed another gas-deal with Russia, this time Gazprom bought one German company Wingas sold by German company BASF, previously RWE (German energy corporation which owns wires in few Polish cities too) sold DEA - other energy company to friend of Vladimir Putin

btw i wonder if RWE in Poland pays taxes or no

btw in early 90s company FIAT get in Poland decision of being free from taxes for 20 years , by guy who visits Bilderberg Club meetings and who was minister in 90s

other companies who do not pay taxes do it because of EU , EU has law "to not double tax" so if company is from France , it pays taxes in France ONLY,

 

exmple from one article about using name/franchise to be cut from tax as "cost" of company :

 

- Using royalties , which effectively reduce the huge costs in Poland achieved profit. For example, the French Orange, after change my brand Telecommunications Poland at Orange charges a fee of 1.6 % of the revenue from sales of products associated with this brand . It could be argued that this is not enough, but eg . In the third quarter of 2013. The company's revenues lofty 3,196 billion zł . This means that 51 million have been legally transfered to France and included in the cost of the company ( not paid tax on them in Poland).

 

 

While in 2007 the share of foreign creditors in total Treasury debt amounted to just 37.8 per cent . , In the next few years it rose to 59.1 per cent . ( as of January 2015 . ) .

https://pl.wikipedia.org/wiki/D%C5%82ug_publiczny#Wysoko.C5.9B.C4.87_d.C5.82ugu_publicznego_w_Polsce

debt of Poland,

debt started from level of less than 15 bilions euro in 1990 and in 2013 crossed 200 bilions euro

 

in ca. 20 years arosen 8 times and all money from private-insurance-pension founds (called OFE - open pension funds) were ... confiscated by this government and added to state budget by minister who was earlier student/pupil of George Soros while he was in UK

 

without confiscating private pension funds money of Poles in 2014, most proabably today this debt would cross barrier of 1000 bilions PLN (230 bilions of EU)

[oxmox 73]

I´ve did a little digging and the story is at least half true.

 

She did loose the flat she was living in, however it was not her flat. The house she was living in belongs to the town and the town decided to end the rent contract because they need the space to house asylum seekers.

I doubt she is very poor, otherwise she wouldn´t have been able to afford that 90m² flat in the first place (I guess a flat that size will be divided into two flats). She is also getting assistance from the town in finding a new flat. And your newspaper also forgot to mention that she has time until May 2016 to move out.

It is every homeowners right to end a rent contact if he needs the space himself.

 

 

Are you talking about the scandal in Germany the media were reporting about ?

 

This is a mess since it is not even about own requirements, just swapping the renter. Iam not sure if the municipal succeeds if she takes a lawyer since it does not sound it is right.

 

 Its individual and rare events but its a scandal....termination of the appartement, swapping a renter who lives in this flat for 16 years already for asylum seekers.

 

I dont think so that the flat was confiscated like allegedly a hungarian newspaper wrote about.....that would be crazy.  Vacancy property (real estate) can be confiscated.

 

By the way, there is a second case now in South Germany, about a renter who lived for 23 years in the same flat and got an appartement termination because of housing shortage for refugees.

 

This will be a disaster with all these refugees when the winter starts...again Germany needs to sort it out and other main countries in Europe are just loooking at the refugee crisis.

[dontknowhow 33]

dontknowhow - ignorance of facts which i shown many times is speechless,

i pasted links many times about 11 bilions and VAT and other things, but proofs against your belief (or you work for them) you don't want to see, i do not want to repeate again and again and again links posted here 10 times, 11 bilions is 19% of profits of foreign corporations that do not pay tax in Poland in fiscal year,

even European Comission confirmed it and noticed problem few weeks ago because other countries also loose because several big corporations are registered in Luxembourg, many journalists write about it for years here etc.

Well, I'm afraid I missed your links, sorry.

Anyway, I did some research on my own. Poland and Germany have an agreement to avoid double taxation. It's a pretty normal thing. The original agreement is 25 pages and I'm not going to read it, but it should work by allowing companies to pay taxes in the country of origin. This means:

1) as I said, it's pretty normal stuff. So nothing to cry about

2) if German companies don't pay taxes in Poland, Polish companies don't pay taxes in Germany. You can say that this is an advantage for Germany, but I can say that Poland can still improve its economy and create more companies. See how it works?

3) German companies pay corporate taxes in Germany. Corporate tax in Germany is 29.65; corporate tax in Poland is 19. So German companies pay more in taxes than Polish companies, even if not to the Polish government. At the end they are at disadvantage.

 

If you don't agree with that I'm afraid I will ask you to repost those links

 

and when you say about proof for corruption - the best proof is decision made by officials - local shop pay 19% tax, foreign shop is free from tax by administrative decision of Ministry of Finances, this is the best proof,

another proof was said about fact that instead of cash , in job i and Barosy were paid by Sodexo tickets to be utilized in Carrefours,

another proof is when company which is worthy 120 milions and belong to state and creating profit/income like 4 milion by year is sold for 9 milions for example,

another proof is that whole Polish banking sector was sold for less than 1/3 of money hold in those banks by clients plus... it was sold for profits generated in period of 4 years

so basically your evidence is worthless. It's only a conjecture. Then we can make a lot of those. There are actually quite a few very funny already existing.

You didn't answer the other questions, by the way. Even if there are all these bribes going around, and there are not, you seem to give all responsibilities to the corruptor, and none to the corrupt.

 

 

you said someone've come here to do medical things cheaper, yea,

and we cannot afford this medical treatment someone from west bought here cheaper or we wait few months to get to doctor for free (refunded),

people here moan that visit to specialistic doctor term is half year or more in queue, there is here another pathology - medical centers and doctors in one room take patient from social insurance (and such patient waits) or without queue for money (as wrote pages ago - sometimes from west because here it is cheaper) , so if we wait in queue, because someone from abroad came with money...

well, sorry about that, but that's not the point. The point is that this guy is doing these things in Poland, not anywhere else. So it's giving money in Poland. That's the advantage of having cheaper prices, because you couldn't compete with stronger economies with the same prices.

That has nothing to do with colonies, it's basic economics. I could have mentioned addon making instead of hospitals, but that was a first hand experience.

 

 

No, I don't want change subject. But I want to make it clear, why we took this topic out. And yes, the cause of talking about how unfair is the EU, is the immigration crisis. You can drop it - it's up to you - but you have to know, all this what we talking about is strongly connected with immigrants and how arrogant is Germany in this topic.

no man, sorry. Really. I got into this one because I felt bad when you mentioned colonies, not to mention that the EU is profiting by bringing you to bankruptcy. It was very disappointing. But if you want to keep that opinion about the refugees keep it. It just doesn't make much sense to put one episode in relation with colonialism. Not to mention the bankruptcy thing.

 

 

And no, you failed to show me there is no profit in ruining other country's economy, because I saw how it works and how countries became richer with ruining other countries' economy.

I really don't know what to tell you. You say you saw how it works, but I really think I showed a different way. As I said, I did my best. At the end this thing seems to be about refugees anyway.

[vilas 473]

whitewashing

why than supermarker and bank won't pay tax in local market where it sells products?

avoid double taxing - okay, lets they pay in place they sell , not in their headquaters country

 

 

conjecture

i knew he will say it

------------

edit:

 

internet again in anger here, despite all economical problems our current (3 weeks left to elections) government :

- decided to give milions to EU program for "refugees"

- work on gender

 

like there were no internal problems, child malnutrition, poverty, huge emigration

[dontknowhow 33]

This is a mess since it is not even about own requirements, just swapping the renter. Iam not sure if the municipal succeeds if she takes a lawyer since it does not sound it is right.

I have been looking at it too, and I agree. I am not an epxert of law, and definitely not German law, but from Wikipedia I understand that Eigenbedarf applies when the owner is in real need of the apartment, for himself or someone in the household or in the family. Many people seem to agree.

If she goes to court she wins.

 

This honestly sucks. They are refugees for christ sake, they are not here on vacation. Give them a decent accomodation, don't just kick a taxpayer out of the apartment she has been living in for 16 years.

 

I also wonder why the FAZ and the Süddeutsche don't report the news

 

 

whitewashing

why than supermarker and bank won't pay tax in local market where it sells products?

avoid double taxing - okay, lets they pay in place they sell , not in their headquaters country

It's a fair comment, but it's also fair to say that many resources are coming from the country of origin, and a lot of work is still done there. And it's also fair to say that the company pays VAT and taxes on salaries locally.

Not an easy matter, I think. If you want to know more maybe you should talk to someone who knows the job.

[vilas 473]

VAT is refuned in EU too

only one who pays VAT is client in result (local )

in PL such companies also from time to time have VAT refunded

...

 

http://www.money.pl/gospodarka/wiadomosci/artykul/ttip-czy-to-kon-trojanski-ktory-wprowadzi,247,0,1918967.html

3 milions of signatures against TTIP, EU leaders do not say what is TTIP, that it is just ACTA v2 and will be signed with USA, but what exaclty is in TTIP is secret - another example of how pathetic EU became

 

http://ndie.pl/premier-czech-chce-wyslania-zolnierzy-z-grupy-wyszehradzkiej-na-granice-z-wegrami/

prime minister of Czech wants sending troops of Vyshehrad group to help Hungary save EU borders from muslim invaders

 

http://ndie.pl/prokuratura-moze-scigac-tych-ktorzy-wykrzykiwali-antyimigracyjne-hasla/

leftists demand punishment for people who are against imigration

 

http://ndie.pl/imigranci-w-szwedzkim-miasteczku-napadaja-gwalca-kradna-rzad-nie-chce-pomoc/

rapes and criminal activity of muslims in another Swedish town

locals and authorities of that town ask for help, but due to politicall correctness noone wants to move away muslim gangsters

 

http://ndie.pl/umyslowe-kalectwo/

good article on "leftist broken brains"

 

http://niezalezna.pl/71507-zabral-ze-soba-nawet-zyrandol-ujawniamy-pelna-liste-bronislawa-komorowskiego

http://wpolityce.pl/polityka/267271-niebywale-komorowski-wyniosl-z-palacu-kilkaset-przedmiotow-m-in-komputery-meble-ekspres-do-kawy-mikrofalowke-telewizor-sejf-kinkiety-i-zyrandol

leftist former president of Poland scandal continues, he even took ... chandelier, electric kattle, radio etc.

btw former president also used almost all budget for year 2015, so new president has almost no budget

[Tonci87 163]

I have been looking at it too, and I agree. I am not an epxert of law, and definitely not German law, but from Wikipedia I understand that Eigenbedarf applies when the owner is in real need of the apartment, for himself or someone in the household or in the family. Many people seem to agree.

If she goes to court she wins.

 

This honestly sucks. They are refugees for christ sake, they are not here on vacation. Give them a decent accomodation, don't just kick a taxpayer out of the apartment she has been living in for 16 years.

 

I also wonder why the FAZ and the Süddeutsche don't report the news

 

 

It's a fair comment, but it's also fair to say that many resources are coming from the country of origin, and a lot of work is still done there. And it's also fair to say that the company pays VAT and taxes on salaries locally.

Not an easy matter, I think. If you want to know more maybe you should talk to someone who knows the job.

 

 

I honestly suspect some other motives behind this rent contract thing. She has a 90m² flat she has been living in for 16 years that belongs to the town and I bet the town hasn´t bothered to raise her rent very much during that time. Maybe the town is just using the refugees as an excuse to get her out?

[vilas 473]

or maybe you live in crazy country when being native and paying taxes is being worst ? ;) and this craziness come to other countries too, because most of politicians are guys who never worked, but after political studies (which noone hires later such people to any jobs) they act in parties and their career never seen honest work,

it is taxpayer who creates state, not newcomer who haven't paid cent of tax and will live from benefits,

[dontknowhow 33]

VAT is refuned in EU too

only one who pays VAT is client in result (local )

in PL such companies also from time to time have VAT refunded

I know that there is no VAT paid for B2B transaction across states, but in this case there are regular customers that actually do pay their VAT. I think that the VAT goes to the local government. Anyway, could be wrong.

 

I honestly suspect some other motives behind this rent contract thing. She has a 90m² flat she has been living in for 16 years that belongs to the town and I bet the town hasn´t bothered to raise her rent very much during that time. Maybe the town is just using the refugees as an excuse to get her out?

Isn't that one of those social apartments that are supposed to have a low rent?

My guess: I go with Die Welt

 

http://www.welt.de/politik/deutschland/article146825325/Fuer-Fluechtlinge-gekuendigt-Das-war-wie-ein-Tritt.html

 

 

Jede neue Wohneinheit für 30 Flüchtlinge kostet Nieheim etwa 300.000 Euro. Diese Lösung kostet mich nichts

 

Guy is trying to save money. He has to keep his votes. So he is fine, she is in deep shit. Nice.

 

or maybe you live in crazy country when being native and paying taxes is being worst ? ;) and this craziness come to other countries too, because most of politicians are guys who never worked, but after political studies (which noone hires later such people to any jobs) they act in parties and their career never seen honest work,

Actually I don't think this is completely misplaced. But they do go after votes, so in one way or the other they have to do something. And going to the press is a great way to change the situation, as voters are following.

Maybe the city will change its mind.

[Tonci87 163]

 

Isn't that one of those social apartments that are supposed to have a low rent?

 

 

 

With a size of 90m² ? No social apartment is that big!

[dontknowhow 33]

With a size of 90m² ? No social apartment is that big!

I have to say that I'm a bit confused.

I remember a friend of mine in Munich, years ago, living in an apartment given to him by the city of Munich. He was there with wife and kid (possibly 2), so the apartment was not so small. Now I have been looking around, and I see that social housing is not the only way to get cheap rent from the city. He probably couldn't have applied for social housing anyway, he was not poor enough. But I remember him saying that you have to wait for a long time to get one of them, which for what I know should be typical of social housing.  So I'm not sure how exactly he got it. I'll have to ask.

 

Anyway, are there apartments rented for profit by municipalities? I would expect a town to give apartments to the (sort of) needy for a lower rent.

[Tonci87 163]

I have to say that I'm a bit confused.

I remember a friend of mine in Munich, years ago, living in an apartment given to him by the city of Munich. He was there with wife and kid (possibly 2), so the apartment was not so small. Now I have been looking around, and I see that social housing is not the only way to get cheap rent from the city. He probably couldn't have applied for social housing anyway, he was not poor enough. But I remember him saying that you have to wait for a long time to get one of them, which for what I know should be typical of social housing.  So I'm not sure how exactly he got it. I'll have to ask.

 

Anyway, are there apartments rented for profit by municipalities? I would expect a town to give apartments to the (sort of) needy for a lower rent.

 

 

Nah, I guess that in this case simply the town owns the house the flat is in and rents it out for profit / as needed. Really not that uncommon.

However, she was living alone there, and there is simply no way that a 90m² flat for one person falls into the social housing category.....

[oxmox 73]

Nah, I guess that in this case simply the town owns the house the flat is in and rents it out for profit / as needed. Really not that uncommon.

However, she was living alone there, and there is simply no way that a 90m² flat for one person falls into the social housing category.....

 

She did raise two sons which in the meanwhile moved out,  she was living for 16 years in this apartement.....

 

Here is the news report about it, its actually rare and several cases were reported in the last months:

 

http://www.welt.de/politik/deutschland/article146825325/Fuer-Fluechtlinge-gekuendigt-Das-war-wie-ein-Tritt.html

 

 

in english ( The Telegraph):

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/germany/11891631/German-woman-threatened-with-eviction-to-make-way-for-refugees.html

 

another 2nd case:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/germany/11902296/Second-German-woman-evicted-from-her-home-to-make-way-for-refugees.html

 

 

 

And still every day masses of refugees arrive in Germany....

 

An example:

 

In Passau, a small town with 50.000 inhabitants in South Germany - Bavaria, every day up to 10,000 refugees arriving.

Despite of reintroduced boarder controls and most of them are comming from Syria.

Many refugees are comming with naiv imaginations.

 

Up to 10,000 refugees arrive daily in Passau

[dontknowhow 33]

 

She did raise two sons which in the meanwhile moved out,  she was living for 16 years in this apartement.....

Yeah, but the article you posted clearly says that she was paying the whole rent. No social housing

 

 

http://www.welt.de/politik/deutschland/article146825325/Fuer-Fluechtlinge-gekuendigt-Das-war-wie-ein-Tritt.html

Already posted :)

That has that interesting comment from the mayor, saying that he does it for the money: "This solution costs me nothing". Of course not, he moves the burden onto his citizen. That costs him nothing, but that costs her quite a bit.

 

 

And still every day masses of refugees arrive in Germany....

Oh, come on, it's not so bad. Yet.

[oxmox 73]

 

Oh, come on, it's not so bad. Yet.

 

->> continue in the new created Thread about the Migrant Crisis

 

Well, not saying it is that bad but it reached the capacity.

Just one example, you have to think that the average refugee

is single, male and between 20-30 years old. Everyone who gets accepted for Asylum has the right to bring their family, so you can multiple a bigger amount of the  refugees with 2-3x.

 

 

 

You understand german right ? Check out the video interview with Minister Seehofer, he talks quiete openly about the refugee crisis:

 

http://www.br.de/nachrichten/seehofer-fluechtlinge-102.html

[St. Jimmy 272]

It's getting interesting with Turkey what they will try to demand from EU so they'll keep borders closed. For example Turkey getting part of visum free movement inside Europe is one thing that has been tossed around.