European Politics Thread.

[iNeo 0]

Fox are jumping on a pretty dodgy bandwagon if they went by the information I saw from typing in "Malmo" and "crime" into Google.

They had a reporter in place in Malmö.

Lots of freaky stuff happen in Malmö, it's kind of out of control.

Like the Fox News article(s) said, cops, ambulance, firefighters etc are attacked when trying to do their work.

[theavonlady 2]

As for Aftonbladet, iirc its a tabloid comperable to the sun in Britain.

What kind of a site is Sveriges Radio?

Super serious state-owned.

Who writes this stuff there?

http://www.sr.se/ekot/artikel.asp?artikel=486728

http://www.sr.se/ekot/artikel.asp?artikel=489325

http://www.sr.se/ekot/artikel.asp?artikel=489315

http://www.sr.se/cgi-bin/ekot/artikel.asp?artikel=490150

Must sleeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeep

[theavonlady 2]

Fox are jumping on a pretty dodgy bandwagon if they went by the information I saw from typing in "Malmo" and "crime" into Google.

They had a reporter in place in Malmö.

Lots of freaky stuff happen in Malmö, it's kind of out of control.

Like the Fox News article(s) said, cops, ambulance, firefighters etc are attacked when trying to do their work.

So, Turms, this is what German Jews did in the 1930s?

[billybob2002 0]

Fox are jumping on a pretty dodgy bandwagon if they went by the information I saw from typing in "Malmo" and "crime" into Google.

They had a reporter in place in Malmö.

Lots of freaky stuff happen in Malmö, it's kind of out of control.

Like the Fox News article(s) said, cops, ambulance, firefighters etc are attacked when trying to do their work.

How is the swedish govt. dealing with that problem of civil servants getting attacked..

Edit: the avatar...

[iNeo 0]

As for Aftonbladet, iirc its a tabloid comperable to the sun in Britain.

What kind of a site is Sveriges Radio?

Super serious state-owned.

Who writes this stuff there?

http://www.sr.se/ekot/artikel.asp?artikel=486728

http://www.sr.se/ekot/artikel.asp?artikel=489325

http://www.sr.se/ekot/artikel.asp?artikel=489315

http://www.sr.se/cgi-bin/ekot/artikel.asp?artikel=490150

Must sleeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeep

Journalists at SR. Or what do you mean?

The last one is about lack of police force on the countryside, kind of. Where did you find these links?

The first one's title is "Ghettoes are emerging in Sweden," a quote from a socialst politician. The second one says "Society must not sag in ghettoes," a quote from the same politician. The third one says "Segregation remains despite multi million investments" and is result of a study.

[iNeo 0]

Fox are jumping on a pretty dodgy bandwagon if they went by the information I saw from typing in "Malmo" and "crime" into Google.

They had a reporter in place in Malmö.

Lots of freaky stuff happen in Malmö, it's kind of out of control.

Like the Fox News article(s) said, cops, ambulance, firefighters etc are attacked when trying to do their work.

How is the swedish govt. dealing with that problem of civil servants getting attacked..

Don't know, AFAIK they don't really do anything about it. Complain too much about it and you're a "racist."

Quote[/b] ]Edit: the avatar...

?

[billybob2002 0]

Fox are jumping on a pretty dodgy bandwagon if they went by the information I saw from typing in "Malmo" and "crime" into Google.

They had a reporter in place in Malmö.

Lots of freaky stuff happen in Malmö, it's kind of out of control.

Like the Fox News article(s) said, cops, ambulance, firefighters etc are attacked when trying to do their work.

How is the swedish govt. dealing with that problem of civil servants getting attacked..

Don't know, AFAIK they don't really do anything about it. Complain too much about it and you're a "racist."

Quote[/b] ]Edit: the avatar...

?

I hate the "false" racist chant...

The avatar I'm talking about is Avon's one. It keeps changing when the page reloads..

[GoOB 0]

As for Aftonbladet, iirc its a tabloid comperable to the sun in Britain.

What kind of a site is Sveriges Radio?

Super serious <s>state-owned</s> public service.

Still, it is not biased. That is why we have public service to begin with. And them being serious, that's a good thing, no?

And really? What is the government to do directly besides increase efforts to integrate these people in to society?

This is crime much like any other crime, it doesn't really matter if the people that throw bricks at busses are of arab descent or "thoroughbred Swedes". What matters is why they are doing it, and how best to stop it. Stopping them, is the business of the Malmö police department. Whilst keeping the same incidents from repeating is the business of our beloved government. And the municipiality of Malmö.

I hate that various ethnical groups, are seen as responsible for the problems of society though. To be honest, it sickens me. And the groups of people, that make it a goal to spread hate against said ethnical groups, is the only group of people I can honestly say I hate. "Patriots" - Bullshit. If they loved their country, they'd build something. Instead of trying to tear things down.

Oops, I think I wandered a wee bit off-topic here.. Hehe...

[iNeo 0]

I hate the "false" racist chant...

Yea. There's a lot of "reversed racism" too, but that's alright Actually I'd say violence associated racism is much more often "reversed" than not (over here).

In general, immigrants that rob prefer to rob Swedes rather than other immigrants.

Rapists are most often immigrants that rape Swedish teens and young women.

AFAIK the situation is the same in the rest of Scandinavia, we just have a higher number of immigrants here.

What I just said was racist... that it is the truth doesn't matter.

The police made a report public earlier this year or last year, that said that Somali immigrants are overrepresented in drug abuse, or something like that. It was the truth of course, the police would never publish false information on purpose. But Somali people here complained and the police announced that they cannot support a report that is racist. Racist? It's the truth.

[billybob2002 0]

I hate the "false" racist chant...

Yea. There's a lot of "reversed racism" too, but that's alright Actually I'd say violence associated racism is much more often "reversed" than not (over here).

In general, immigrants that rob prefer to rob Swedes rather than other immigrants.

Rapists are most often immigrants that rape Swedish teens and young women.

AFAIK the situation is the same in the rest of Scandinavia, we just have a higher number of immigrants here.

What I just said was racist... that it is the truth doesn't matter.

The police made a report public earlier this year or last year, that said that Somali immigrants are overrepresented in drug abuse, or something like that. It was the truth of course, the police would never publish false information on purpose. But Somali people here complained and the police announced that they cannot support a report that is racist. Racist? It's the truth.

The police cannot support a report because it is deemed racist and they are ones that made it public.. ...Classic!

[iNeo 0]

As for Aftonbladet, iirc its a tabloid comperable to the sun in Britain.

What kind of a site is Sveriges Radio?

Super serious <s>state-owned</s> public service.

Still, it is not biased. That is why we have public service to begin with. And them being serious, that's a good thing, no?

I think you interpreted my post as being ironic, but it wasn't. It's not biased because it's public service, and seriousity is a good thing, yes.

Quote[/b] ]This is crime much like any other crime, it doesn't really matter if the people that throw bricks at busses are of arab descent or "thoroughbred Swedes". What matters is why they are doing it, and how best to stop it.

Well if they don't feel any solidarity at all with the society and country they're in, why would they care if they wreck busses etc. And they hardly do feel solidarity, so ethincity is very much an element in the problem, although it probably wouldn't be if the integration was functional. Then again with functional integration the problem wouldn't exist. I hope what I just said made any sense, I'm getting a bit sleepy.

[GoOB 0]

Well if they don't feel any solidarity at all with the society and country they're in

Has the country any solidarity for them?

Personally, I wouldn't be too thrilled if I was in the situation that many immigrants are today.

[Grizzlie 0]

Integration sounds good, but i see at last one big problem -how intergate somebody who does not want to intergate?

[iNeo 0]

Well if they don't feel any solidarity at all with the society and country they're in

Has the country any solidarity for them?

If it hadn't, it'd be much worse. It'd be ethnic war, more or less. Take the example from that Fox story, "how do you feel about being attacked when you try to help?" Police officer: "a little annoyed." Had there been no solidarity on his/our side, his answer wouldn't have been so diplomatic, that's for sure.

Quote[/b] ]Personally, I wouldn't be too thrilled if I was in the situation that many immigrants are today.

They are responsible for their own actions. I hate when people try to take that away from them.

Integration sounds good, but i see at last one big problem -how intergate somebody who does not want to intergate?

Precisely...

[Ex-RoNiN 0]

What's the problem with having the following legislation - "A foreigner found to be committing a crime will be immediately deported permanently after the end of his/her prison sentence."

Quite reasonable, no?

[Grizzlie 0]

I would say that there is 3 groups of immigrants:

1. Neofits - "more christian than Pope" -

2. who wants to integrate, but don't want to forget their roots

3. who wants country they r living go their way-intergation "a rebus" - that other ppl has to intergate with them.

With 2 first groups there is rather no problems, but what with 3rd?

It is not big group, but i think majority of problems r with them.

@Ex-RoNiN - it is very "politically incorrect" ;)

[denoir 0]

In general, immigrants that rob prefer to rob Swedes rather than other immigrants.

Rapists are most often immigrants that rape Swedish teens and young women.

LMAO, you don't think that has something to do with the fact that 90% of the population is Swedish?

If you pick a random person, the odds are 9 to 1 that he/she will be Swedish.

Anyway, here's an article for you from Brottsförebyggande rĺdet (government agency that deals with crime statistics). The article is in Swedish and a bit too much for me to translate, I'll bring out the highlights

Quote[/b] ]

Invandrare och brott - den svĺra frĺgan

En av de viktigaste frĺgorna i den främlingsfientliga agitationen handlar om kopplingen mellan invandring och brottslighet. Frĺgan är komplicerad och debatten infekterad. Vilket visar sig inte minst i den senaste tidens valresultat i Europa. BRĹ:s Jan Ahlberg, enhetschef, och Heléne Lööw, expert pĺ främlingsfientlighet, berättar om vad vi faktiskt vet. Bristen pĺ kunskap är slĺende.

I samband med den antirasistiska

â€Rör inte min kompisâ€-kampanjen i mitten av 1980-talet – lät invandringsfientliga grupper trycka upp ett motklistermärke med texten â€Rör inte min tjej – stoppa invandringenâ€.

Texten anspelade pĺ den delen av propagandan som rör invandring och brottslighet. En genomgĺng av tidningar, hemsidor och broschyrer som ges ut av allt frĺn rasideologiska till invandringskritiska grupper, visar att kopplingen invandring och brottslighet är ett av de omrĺden som mest frekvent förekommer i propagandan. Pĺ mĺnga grupper och nätverks hemsidor ĺterfinns praktiskt taget dagliga notiser om brott som invandrare pĺstĺs ha begĺtt. Under rubriker som â€Zigenarna värst – enligt Malmöpolisenâ€, â€Äºldring överfallen, kidnappad och rĺnmisshandladâ€, â€15 ĺrig flicka tvingades till oralsex i taxibil av främlingâ€, â€mĺngkulturell knivmisshandel i Falkenbergâ€, â€asylsökande i vilt slagsmĺl i Olofström†etcetera, frammanas bilden av en - över hela landet - ständigt växande kriminalitet bland invandrargrupper, där offren är vanliga oskyldiga svenskar.

För de fall som blir notiser i tidningar och pĺ hemsidor är typfallet att gärningsmannen har invandrarbakgrund och offret är svensk. I vissa fall – särskilt när det gäller sexualbrott – presenteras fallen som utslag av ett rasistiskt/etnisk vĺld riktat mot svenska kvinnor.

De fall som särskilt uppmärksammas i propagandan är sexualbrott, rĺn, ĺldringsrĺn, mord och misshandel. Det är brott som väcker avsky och den bild som frammanas i de olika artiklarna är inte bara bilden av att majoriteten av alla brott begĺs av invandrare – utan även att de begĺr särskilt avskyvärda brott. När det gäller sexualbrotten har olika rasideologiska och extremnationalistiska grupper under en rad ĺr bedrivit olika former av kampanjer. Ett exempel var â€Operation nordisk Kvinnofridâ€, som dels bedrev propaganda via flygbladskampanjer, vilka mĺnga gĺnger knöts till konkreta fall, dels via Internet.

Andra exempel är de kampanjer mot sexualbrott som bedrivs av â€Nationell Ungdomâ€. Kampanjerna innefattar allt frĺn flygblad med fallbeskrivningar till att aktivister dyker upp vid vĺldtäktsrättegĺngar där offret är svenskt och gärningsmannen invandrare för att ge offret stöd. I samband med den uppmärksammade gruppvĺldtäkten i Rissne bedrev bland annat Sverigedemokraterna omfattande flygbladskampanjer. Genom att dels mer eller mindre dagligen publicera notiser om brott som uppges vara begĺngna av invandrare, dels i detalj redovisa fall som odiskutabelt ägt rum, byggs en bild upp av en allt mer tilltagande brottslighet. Och genom att konkret finnas pĺ plats vid till exempel vĺldtäktsrättegĺngar skapas ocksĺ en bild av att de är de enda som konkret, genom en aktiv, handling stĺr pĺ offrens sida.

I bland ger olika grupper ut hela broschyrer om brottslighet. Till exempel startade Nationaldemokraterna 2001 en kampanj under rubriken â€Invandrarna, vĺldtäkterna och sanningenâ€. I samband med den publicerades en större kartläggning av vĺldtäkter i Stockholms län. Ett gemensamt drag i propagandan oavsett vilka grupper den kommer ifrĺn är föreställningen att samhället försöker förtiga problemen, att det finns en sorts tystnadens konspiration kring dessa frĺgor. Grupperna ser sig själva som förmedlare av en stigmatiserad â€sanningâ€. Ett annat gemensamt drag är att de sällan eller aldrig definierar vad de avser med invandrare. Av retoriken framgĺr dock att det som regel är personer med utomeuropeisk bakgrund, sĺdana som tillhör minoriteter som till exempel romer, samt när det gäller extremnationalistiska grupper även personer med bakgrund frĺn syd, öst och Balkan.

Propagandan är svĺr att bemöta av mĺnga skäl. Hur bemöter man till exempel fallbeskrivningarna? Hur ställer man sig till Nationell Ungdom-aktivisternas stöd till vĺldtagna kvinnor? Det finns ocksĺ stora luckor i vĺr kunskap om brottsligheten. Den kunskap som finns är heller inte allmängods. Det är dock viktigt, inte minst för att motverka konspirationsteoretiska resonemang, att kunskap produceras inte bara om hur det statistiskt ser ut, utan även om orsaker och möjligheter till förebyggande arbete, och att en debatt förs. Men vi saknar inte helt kunskap om de faktiska förhĺllandena. I det följande kommer sanningen bakom nĺgra av de vanligaste pĺstĺendena att undersökas.

Det första som bör understrykas när det gäller invandrare och brottslighet är att det inte finns, och heller aldrig har funnits, nĺgon officiell statistik som visar hur det förhĺller sig med invandrares brottslighet i Sverige. Den faktakunskap som finns baseras i huvudsak pĺ en omfattande undersökning som avsĺg perioden 1985–1989. Ett halvt decennium senare (1993) genomfördes dessutom en mindre undersökning vid Kriminologiska institutionen i Stockholm, vilken i huvudsak visade samma resultat som den första undersökningen. Inget hade sĺledes förändrats i sak. Under senare ĺr har det gjorts vissa specialundersökningar rörande, enskilda brottstyper som exempelvis gruppvĺldtäkter, personrĺn och mord. Resultaten frĺn dessa undersökningar har i stort sett givit samma resultat som undersökningen frĺn perioden 1985–1989.

Den faktakunskap som finns att tillgĺ är sĺledes inte färsk. En viktig insikt inför den nu alltmer högljudda debatten om invandrares brottslighet är alltsĺ att ingen människa vet mer i frĺgan än vad som framkom i dessa snart decenniegamla undersökningar.

Vad visar dĺ de undersökningar som finns?

Invandrare, med den vedertagna definitionen att man är folkbokförd i Sverige men född i annat land, är överrepresenterade i brottslighet. Det är ett faktum. Utifrĺn undersökningarna kunde man beräkna (avseende ĺr 1993) att knappt 20 procent av de anmälda brotten i Sverige begicks av invandrare. Mot bakgrund av att de som föll under definitionen invandrare dĺ utgjorde ungefär tio procent av befolkningen (i dag är andelen 11%), handlar det om en överrepresentation pĺ cirka tvĺ gĺnger.

Överrepresentationen till trots nĺr invandrarnas andel av brottsligheten inte pĺ lĺngt när de höjder som i bland framställs. Inte sällan beskrivs det som att en majoritet av brotten begĺs av invandrare. I realiteten handlar det alltsĺ om en femtedel. Till saken hör ocksĺ att uppemot hälften av brotten inom denna femtedel kan hänföras till nordiska invandrare, det vill säga invandrare frĺn Danmark, Finland och Norge. Med andra ord inte de grupper som i debatten vanligtvis kallas invandrare. De flesta debattörer, oavsett vilken sida de kommer ifrĺn, avser – även om det inte sägs rent ut – med termen invandrare främst personer frĺn utomnordiska länder, företrädesvis utomeuropeiska.

Det finns naturligtvis variationer i dessa generella siffror. Dels varierar överrepresentationen mellan olika invandrargrupper, dels varierar den mellan olika brottstyper. Den brottstyp där överrepresentationen är som störst är vĺldtäkter, där närmare 40 procent av gärningsmännen är invandrare. Denna uppgift har ocksĺ ofta använts som slagträ i olika propagandaformer. En inte ovidkommande information i det sammanhanget är att de personer som begĺr dessa brott kan räknas i hundratal (storleksordningen 500 fall pĺ ett ĺr) medan det finns närmare en miljon invandrare. Det är sĺ att säga inte speciellt ovanligt att det i en grupp individer, oavsett vilken, finns en promilleandel bestĺende av â€rötäggâ€.

Samma förhĺllande gäller även vid personrĺn, en annan brottstyp där invandrarandelen är högre än genomsnittet (uppemot 30 procent). Här handlar det om ett antal ungdomsgäng som specialiserat sig pĺ denna typ av brottslighet. I och med att dessa enskilda gäng kan begĺ ett stort antal rĺn under ett ĺr, ĺker

siffrorna upp.

Ett pĺstĺende som ibland dyker upp i olika former av propaganda är att invandrares brottslighet oftast drabbar svenskar. Eftersom svenskar (födda i Sverige) utgör närmare 90 procent av befolkningen är det naturligtvis sĺ att offren till övervägande delen är svenskar. De offerundersökningar som gjorts tyder dock inte pĺ att svenskar skulle vara överrepresenterade som offer. Tvärtom tyder de pĺ motsatsen, det vill säga att invandrare är överrepresenterade även som offer. (Dock i mindre grad än som gärningsmän.). En undersökning av personrĺn i Stockholm och Malmö visar dock pĺ att det finns en tendens till att vissa gäng i Stockholm företrädesvis har rĺnat svenskar.

Detta är dock ett specialfall. Det har inte framkommit nĺgra sĺdana tendenser i undersökningar av andra brottstyper.

Ett exempel är mord och drĺp där invandrarandelen som gärningsmän är cirka 30 procent samtidigt som drygt 20 procent av offren är invandrare. Det handlar sĺledes om en kraftig överrepresentation.

Varför är invandrare överrepresenterade när det gäller brottslighet? Pĺ denna frĺga finns idag inget svar. Det finns ett flertal hypoteser om orsakerna till överrepresentationen, men endast nĺgon enstaka av dessa har kunnat testas empiriskt. Nĺgra av dessa hypoteser är:

Frustration. Med detta avses att det finns en diskrepans mellan de mĺl man har i livet och de möjligheter man har att uppnĺ dessa och att detta är brottsgenererande eftersom vissa dĺ söker uppnĺ sina mĺl pĺ illegal väg. Denna diskrepans tenderar att vara större för invandrare eftersom sprĺksvĺrigheter, svĺrigheter att ta sig in pĺ arbetsmarknaden etcetera minskar möjligheterna att man uppnĺr sina mĺl.

Upplevd diskriminering. Om man blir eller upplever sig bli diskriminerad skulle detta kunna minska lojaliteten med det omgivande samhället, vilket skulle öka brottsbenägenheten. Empiriska studier har funnit samband

mellan upplevd diskriminering och registrerad brottslighet.

Kulturskillnader. Att förklaringen till överrepresentationen skulle ligga i kulturella skillnader.

Upplevelser i ursprungslandet. Vissa invandrare har upplevelser i hemlandet som skulle kunna innebära att man fĺtt en annan syn pĺ exempelvis vĺld.

Selektionshypotesen. Denna hypotes utgĺr ifrĺn att de personer som flyttar frĺn ett land inte utgör ett urval av normalbefolkningen, utan att det finns en tendens till att personer med sociala problem och med högre brottsbenägenhet ocksĺ är mer benägna att flytta. Att det därmed finns en selektion mot genomsnittligt högre brottsbenägenhet i olika invandrargrupper.

Lägre socioekonomisk status. Genomsnittligt sett har invandrare lägre sĺ kallad socioekonomisk status än infödda svenskar. Det är väl känt inom kriminologin att lĺg socioekonomisk status sammanhänger med högre brottsbenägenhet. Denna hypotes har testats empiriskt och visat sig kunna förklara en viss del av överrepresentationen.

En intressant aspekt som framkom i dessa analyser är att â€arbetare†jämfört med â€tjänstemän†är mer överrepresenterade än vad â€invandrare†är jämfört med â€svenskarâ€. I förstnämnda fallet handlar det om en överrepresentation pĺ 3 gĺnger mot alltsĺ 2 gĺnger i det sistnämnda fallet. Ett resultat som ger lite perspektiv pĺ invandrares överrepresentation.

Det finns sĺledes ett flertal tänkbara förklaringar till den överrepresentation som statistiken ändĺ visar pĺ. Med största sannolikt är det sĺ att det inte finns nĺgon enkel förklaring, utan att alla olika hypoteser lämnar ett visst bidrag till att förklara orsakerna.

Mycket mer forskning finns att göra pĺ omrĺdet, inte minst vad gäller orsakerna till överrepresentationen. brĺ har mĺlsättningen att presentera kriminalstatistiken för ĺr 2002 uppdelad pĺ â€invandrare†och â€svenskarâ€. Och i samband med det även göra en mer omfattande analys av de förhĺllanden som rĺder. För utan kunskap lämnas fältet fritt för spekulationer.

Jan Ahlberg och Heléne Lööw

arbetar vid BRĹ.

To sum up in a few points:

[*] There's no recent statistics on immigrants and crime. The last real survey was done in 1989.

[*] The media consistently highlights crimes with immigrants involved.

[*] From the old data that exists, while immigrats form about 10% of the Swedish population, they commit 20% of all crime. (Swedes commit 80%)

[*] 50% of the crimes committed by immgrants are committed by immigrants from other Nordic countries.

[*] Immigrats are also slightly more overrepresented as victims of crime.

If we combine this with other statistics. Also from BRĹ, during 2003 the police had a total of 66,479 people that they in one stage or another suspected of crime. Although the actual number of criminals is far smaller, let's still take that number as a reference.

So, 66,479 criminal suspects --> 20% of that =~ 13,000 immigrant criminal suspects. 13,000 / 1,000,000 = 1.3%

So for each immigrant criminal, there are 99 immigrants who are law-abiding citizens.

As for Swedes, the 80% equals 53,000 criminals. Or some 0.7% of the total.

[kerosene 0]

When people demand integration, there always seems to be an assumption that the native population actually wants to integrate with immigrants or has no problem with them. I dont know what the situations like in Sweden, but in Northern England their were riots between muslims and the white population, and the right wing papers talked about how muslims needed to do more to integrate themselves into the community, while ignoring the fact that its just a more xenophobic part of the country and no one there has a job.

[brgnorway 0]

When people demand integration, there always seems to be an assumption that the native population actually wants to integrate with immigrants or has no problem with them.  I dont know what the situations like in Sweden, but in Northern England their were riots between muslims and the white population, and the right wing papers talked about how muslims needed to do more to integrate themselves into the community, while ignoring the fact that its just a more xenophobic part of the country and no one there has a job.

Yep, same thing here in Norway! Everyone screams integration - when they really don't want them too!

And in order to integrate the first and most important step is to take full and active part in the working life. After all that's probably what you'll be doing for more than half of your life when not being asleep. It's also the best meeting place to get together and kill all those silly cultural stereotypes between immigrants as well as the ethnic norwegians/britts etc. Problem is however that at least in Norway, and I suspect in most of the other scandinavian countries, they are prohibited from entering the labour market simply because of discrimination. They are not "wanted" in the first place.

The only good thing about this is that a growing number of immigrants and children of immigrants are taking higher education - especially at university level.

[GoOB 0]

The only good thing about this is that a growing number of immigrants and children of immigrants are taking higher education - especially at university level.

That is good, very good even.

But immigrants, even with astounding education have a hard time finding a job! Even if they have been educated in the country which they immigrated to (atleast that is the case in Sweden) ofcourse, everyone has a hard time finding a good job. But very often you hear about lesser qualified "Swedish" people getting the job, when a more qualified immigrant has also applied for the very same job.

So what we are seeing in Sweden, are lots of immigrants, with Swedish university degrees working in places which don't even require a high-school education! Granted, that is the case for many "Swedes" aswell.

[brgnorway 0]

The only good thing about this is that a growing number of immigrants and children of immigrants are taking higher education - especially at university level.

That is good, very good even.

But immigrants, even with astounding education have a hard time finding a job! Even if they have been educated in the country which they immigrated to (atleast that is the case in Sweden) ofcourse, everyone has a hard time finding a good job. But very often you hear about lesser qualified "Swedish" people getting the job, when a more qualified immigrant has also applied for the very same job.

So what we are seeing in Sweden, are lots of immigrants, with Swedish university degrees working in places which don't even require a high-school education! Granted, that is the case for many "Swedes" aswell.

Yes, that's a fitting description for the norwegian job market aswell. It's very common to be rejected and have your job application thrown into the dust bin if your name is Hassan or something like that. I remember a story on the news about an iranian engineer who had studied in europe somewhere. He had about one hundred rejections and no job interviews - then he changed his name to Olsen and got an interview right away! I suspect that the very same people who says no in the personell departement are the very same people who scream "integration" .

A good thing though is the latter years demands that public departements have to employ a certain variety of the population meaning other ethnic groups being represented as well. It's not perfect - but I honestly think it will get better! It could be worse though! Go back a hundred years and you would find that the norwegian constitution had these lines in it: Jews and Jesuittes are prohibited from entering the kingdom of Norway!

Oh, tired now, hope what I wrote made any sense!

[iNeo 0]

In general, immigrants that rob prefer to rob Swedes rather than other immigrants.

Rapists are most often immigrants that rape Swedish teens and young women.

LMAO, you don't think that has something to do with the fact that 90% of the population is Swedish?

If you pick a random person, the odds are 9 to 1 that he/she will be Swedish.

Immigrants have solidarity between each other, they hardly rob each other. And when has an immigrated girl been raped? Remember the group of immigrants that was interviewed in DN 11 Feb 2000 -- "it's not as wrong to rape a Swedish girl as it is to rape an arabian girl."

If a new study was made, it'd most likely show that Swedes are overrepresented in financial crimes etc, while immigrants are overrepresented in violent crimes, abuse, robbery etc.

Quote[/b] ][*]The media consistently highlights crimes with immigrants involved.

Actually that report said immigration critical media, ie certain websites that are set under taboo, were the ones to high-light foreigners' crimes. Of course. Regular media never do, the ethincity is always hidden. The tv show Efterlyst (Wanted) tries as far as possible not to mention the ethnicity of the criminal, even though it would help finding him.

That you call immigration critical media "the media" in this way just shows that you are ready to lie to "prove" me wrong.

[EiZei 0]

If a new study was made, it'd most likely show that Swedes are overrepresented in financial crimes etc, while immigrants are overrepresented in violent crimes, abuse, robbery etc.

Should'nt this be quite expectable since immigrants make far less money?

[Ares1978 0]

In general, immigrants that rob prefer to rob Swedes rather than other immigrants.

Rapists are most often immigrants that rape Swedish teens and young women.

LMAO, you don't think that has something to do with the fact that 90% of the population is Swedish?

If you pick a random person, the odds are 9 to 1 that he/she will be Swedish.

Immigrants have solidarity between each other, they hardly rob each other. And when has an immigrated girl been raped?

Well, maybe not exactly solidarity. Many ethnic groups have that kind of solidarity within their group, but between groups it is possibly more a question of fear. Many cultures have a deeply rooted clan system and most would avoid messing with them out of fear of retaliation.

[kerosene 0]

Quote[/b] ]And when has an immigrated girl been raped?

Did it occur to you, that it simply dosent make the news or that many rapes are not reported, espically in non-western cultures?  Most newspapers pick up on rapes /murders of girls when their pretty or attacked by foreigners.

Admittedley im using my own country as a guide here, but with a few(and I stress few) exceptions if you go buy the media, you could quite easily believe that only child molestation and abduction only happens to white children, this is not the case at all.

Aside from that, considering women and children from impoverished parts of the world are forced into the sex trade by people smugglers at an increasing rate, I would have to say, fairly often.

The statement "most rapes in x country are committed by immigrants) is not in itself racist.  Reversing the statement makes it so.  

On other hand, you could argue, what exactly is the value of informing people that a particular crime is most likley perpetrated by a particular demographic group?  Mentioning the ethnicity of a suspect is one thing, smearing a group is another.  

The Metropolitan Police caught a lot of flak a few years ago when a spokesporson announced most muggings were commited by black males, the right took the argument that its just a fact, a statement, nothing wrong with stating a fact.  

However, the same right wing papers and the same readership would probably be very unhappy if a confrence was called to announce that an noticably above average number of pedophiles are white middle class males with a professional job. ( This is true by the way, i didnt just pull that out of my butt.)

Surley the information is just as relevant?