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thought so:

 

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2015-12-29/polish-ruling-party-waters-down-banking-levy-to-protect-budget

 

Faster than I was thinking

EDIT: ah, didn't read all of it. So they are increasing another tax. Let's see how that plays out.

Interesting to see the consequences on Polish banks and insurers by the way

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when milions of Poles suffered poverty - noone cared in western press

when milions migrated due to poverty - noone cared to discuss about problems here

when corruption hit me personally - burglary and all court issues and i was writting to several "amnesty like craps" noone cared

when our industry was destroyed, noone cared

when our market was monopolized by few corporations noone cared and even denied it

when our new government want few corporations to pay taxes - all western media have butthurt 

it shows who steers and keeps those media

people accuse Russian TV RT that it is Putin propaganda 

but when here in Poland we want western supermarkets and banks to act honestly and pay taxes - western mainstream media have butthurt and  Guy Verhofstadt  calls it national-socialistic regime (few days ago http://wpolityce.pl/polityka/276375-glossa-do-verhofstadta-nie-moge-nazwac-tego-inaczej-anizeli-zacheta-do-wojny-domowej-w-polsce )

it show how those who call themselves liberals (in fact they are not for freedom in economy or society) are puppets of few corporations, few banks, few supermarkets steer politicians , media etc. 

in places where small business and medium business would be strong - corporations would not play such role, now few CEOs in few companies are more important than whole countries, nations etc. 

that such outrage is in western media 

maybe again George Soros like guys are not satisfied - they want some areas of globe to be private cheap farms to play charity in other part of globe

 

such things are real problem of world - not that Deutsche Bank and Carrefour would have to pay 0.4 % tax 

such guys are problems - their fundations, their actions in other parts of globe

and those who support honest decent competition should rather be happy that all have to pay taxes, not one pays and others not -- because it is not fair 

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Not sure why you are replying to my post, after you said you prefer to avoid discussions.

 

To check, If I was right about that... Perhaps I could change this preference, it's not carved in stone after all :) . 

 

But seriously, I just had some data at hand in the topic, not intended to argue about this matter, I'm not a specialist and know to little about banks and such to have real own opinion, to give valuable input from myself. So I'm just quoting here, and either they'll raise charges or not, I'll be not really surprised, although I do rather expect higher charges soon. Question is, if gov would use then PKO BP bank, controlled by state treasury, to check the rest of them by keeping charges not raised, so either people will migrate to PKO BP or other banks will keep their charges not raised too to stay competitive. A single bank is enough to do such trick apparently. I'm just curious, how it will develop, so indeed - enough to wait a bit. 

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when milions of Poles suffered poverty - noone cared in western press

And what did you know of the western press? You know nothing now, I can imagine at that time.

 

when milions migrated due to poverty - noone cared to discuss about problems here

Really? Does it mean I will have my billions back?

 

when corruption hit me personally - burglary and all court issues and i was writting to several "amnesty like craps" noone cared

I realize this will break your heart, but you are not so important

 

when our industry was destroyed, noone cared

That's probably because your industry, if it ever existed, was already destroyed.

 

It's quite frustrating repeating the same things over and over again

 

when our market was monopolized by few corporations noone cared and even denied it

That could be because it never happened.

I'm still waiting for more information about your fancy "most abused by corporations countries in the world" report, by the way. I am sure that your very reliable press has more information about it.

 

but when here in Poland we want western supermarkets and banks to act honestly and pay taxes

Act honestly? Are you fucking kidding me? You are coming up with this bullshit again? You have some serious guts, let me tell you.

 

THIS IS HOW IT WORKS. THERE IS A TREATY. IT'S NORMAL

 

You get the point now?

 

and those who support honest decent competition should rather be happy that all have to pay taxes, not one pays and others not -- because it is not fair 

It's pretty clear what those who support honest decent competition say, and I really don't think you can lecture them.

And cut this taxes bullshit, it's very irritating

 

But seriously, I just had some data at hand in the topic, not intended to argue about this matter, I'm not a specialist and know to little about banks and such to have real own opinion, to give valuable input from myself. So I'm just quoting here, and either they'll raise charges or not, I'll be not really surprised, although I do rather expect higher charges soon. Question is, if gov would use then PKO BP bank, controlled by state treasury, to check the rest of them by keeping charges not raised, so either people will migrate to PKO BP or other banks will keep their charges not raised too to stay competitive. A single bank is enough to do such trick apparently.

state companies are not well known for their efficiency, as they use money that is not theirs. They are mostly used by politicians for their own interests. That's the reason why people often ask to make them private. It's unlikely that a bank controlled by the state can be such a good competitor without "extra help".

Now, aside from the fact that the extra help is not allowed, you should ask yourself, in case this PKO BP can't do the same work without changing anything and does need the help, where that help is coming from. You probably know that it's coming, one way or the other, from your pockets.

 

I'm just curious, how it will develop, so indeed - enough to wait a bit. 

I honestly doubt that you will know anything in that regard, unless you are well informed. You will probably notice other unrelated things though.

But yes, wait, I'm sure Poland will not collapse. I can't pretend you take everything I say as granted, even if it would be nice if you could keep it in mind. I might post some other links.

It's just probably longer than just a bit. After all we are talking about a party that has already had a time at the government, if I'm not mistaking.

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No it´s not OK!

Media has to be independend and varied. Any meddling of politics into the media is bad. History has shown that time and time again.

 There is no such thing "independent" media. All media is depend from how pay them.

There are media who told so "we are independent", but be aware, they could lie much bigger.

This is why I read lefty and righty media. They lie too, but I can read between the lines and I know how they shift the truth.

 

But what Vilas said is true: when the official TV (payed by government) is fully lefty or liberal, it's OK to western countries. They can lie, they can cheat the ellections - EU never complain. But when a righty government change the key roles in a official TV station and made it righty, then the western liberals immediately press the alarm button and accuse the new government as nazi. It's a very old and very boring procedure.

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 There is no such thing "independent" media. All media is depend from how pay them.

There are media who told so "we are independent", but be aware, they could lie much bigger.

This is why I read lefty and righty media. They lie too, but I can read between the lines and I know how they shift the truth.

 

But what Vilas said is true: when the official TV (payed by government) is fully lefty or liberal, it's OK to western countries. They can lie, they can cheat the ellections - EU never complain. But when a righty government change the key roles in a official TV station and made it righty, then the western liberals immediately press the alarm button and accuse the new government as nazi. It's a very old and very boring procedure.

Ah, but see, there is the issue! How are you going to consume media from both sides if one side gets censored? And that is exactly what the new polish government wants. Add to that their casmpaign to gain total control over the supreme court so that they can pass any law they want. Those things together should ring a lot of alarm bells.

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Ah, but see, there is the issue! How are you going to consume media from both sides if one side gets censored? And that is exactly what the new polish government wants. Add to that their casmpaign to gain total control over the supreme court so that they can pass any law they want. Those things together should ring a lot of alarm bells.

 The problem is, the previous government did the same and it didn't ring any bells. Because if the so-called liberals censored the media and they rule the constitution-court it's OK. But if the other party do, then all alarms bell. This is the issue!

 

I agree, some one has to stop this infinity loop. But why the conservatives, why not the liberals? Next time, when liberals win the election, please organize political rally to force them to stop censoring the official media and let the constitution-court free and don't change the judges to liberal ones.

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I didn't think you wanted to go so far back in time.

 

I'm sure you won't be surprised if I tell you that I don't believe what is written there. Actually I haven't even bothered to translate it. See if you can find the original article, then we can talk. I'm sure it's not what you think.

I found about 7 articles on Der Spiegel dated 1981 mentioning Poland. I'm not going to read them.

 

I remember those years, I was a kid. I particularly remember 1982, when I was on vacation in London with my family. Yes, people cared, and were cheering for you, like in 1989, like Tienanmen, like the Arab Spring.

How can you expect that countries that made a cultural identity of democracy and freedom, thriving for decades, don't support you? That is not only illogical, it's also very offensive.

 

 There is no such thing "independent" media. All media is depend from how pay them.

That is not completely correct. The owner of a newspaper or television can leave the directors free to do what they want, as they make money. And whatever media, even if not independent, can report news with at least a bit of objectivity.

 

Add to that their casmpaign to gain total control over the supreme court so that they can pass any law they want.

that is the real problem. The first of many, I'm afraid.

There was an interesting article on Bloomberg mentioning how they not only placed their judges there, they even increased the voting requirements, so that is more difficult to vote a law unconstitutional. They basically shut their own judges up.

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That is not completely correct. The owner of a newspaper or television can leave the directors free to do what they want, as they make money. And whatever media, even if not independent, can report news with at least a bit of objectivity.

OK. That is true. I know an example here, when a right-wing, Orban-suporter millionair own the most extreme liberal news and let them to write whatever they want because of money. Because this news produce lot of money from ads.

So you have right and I have to correct myself: I still deny the existance of real independent media, but not only because its owner. Because all media has a character (its owner or editor or any influent journalist) in any side. And it's determine their priorities and directions.

A few years ago, I just thought I was in a wrong country and Hungary is the only country where there is no independent media and all media, what call itself "independent" are lie. But now when I saw how western media works (specially about Hungary) I know, there is no independent media at all.

Most articles about Hungary was written by hungarians and they were presented as an "independent civil thinker" and probably the reader of the article believe this because they don1t know the person. But we know they are far from independent, far from civil and far from thinker...

But I hope you have right about there are media in western countries at least publish objective news. In Hungary and Poland there is no such "objective news". All media create the news (or silent it) and do it for some purpose. (eg: it's very interesting why the liberal media here push that mass-rapist story of Köln, because they never ever before wrote any bad news about the immigrants.)

EDIT: "Most articles about Hungary was written by hungarians". It's means lot of time there was article signed by famous German, British or American journalists, but it was written by a hungarian. They uncover them many time accidentally, when they post the "translation" of the article BEFORE it was published in the western media.

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So you have right and I have to correct myself: I still deny the existance of real independent media, but not only because its owner. Because all media has a character (its owner or editor or any influent journalist) in any side. And it's determine their priorities and directions.

Of course. Everything is subject to personal interpretation. 100% objectivity doesn't exist, even because it's undefinable. But you can be at least close.

 

A few years ago, I just thought I was in a wrong country and Hungary is the only country where there is no independent media and all media, what call itself "independent" are lie. But now when I saw how western media works (specially about Hungary) I know, there is no independent media at all.

Most articles about Hungary was written by hungarians and they were presented as an "independent civil thinker" and probably the reader of the article believe this because they don1t know the person. But we know they are far from independent, far from civil and far from thinker...

I really don't think independence here is the main issue. It's rather the trustworthiness and completeness of the news. But I can ensure you there is worse than Hungary. I hope you are being sarcastic.

Think for example of Watergate. If you don't know what it is, google it, it's a great (and very famous) example of what free press can do. An American president, Richard Nixon, had to resign. Something like that could probably happen in Hungary or Poland, not in Russia, China, or Saudi Arabia.

 

But I hope you have right about there are media in western countries at least publish objective news.

I wouldn't go so far. As you said, no one is really objective, and everyone makes mistakes. But maybe they try harder.

And not all of them actually. If you look at the Bild or the Sun I really don't think you will have an example of great journalism.

 

But I hope you have right about there are media in western countries at least publish objective news. In Hungary and Poland there is no such "objective news". All media create the news (or silent it) and do it for some purpose. (eg: it's very interesting why the liberal media here push that mass-rapist story of Köln, because they never ever before wrote any bad news about the immigrants.)

there is a lot of noise about that thing in Cologne, and obviously part of it it's because of the immigrant situation. But big part of it is also blame on the police, which apparently didn't do much.

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But big part of it is also blame on the police, which apparently didn't do much.

 

Wich is not suprising at all. In my experience german police is only efficient and there for you if they are writing you a ticket. Whenever else you need them they are either too slow to respond or fuck up royally. Just my personal life experience with them.

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Wich is not suprising at all. In my experience german police is only efficient and there for you if they are writing you a ticket. Whenever else you need them they are either too slow to respond or fuck up royally. Just my personal life experience with them.

Thankfully for me I don't have a lot of experience with German police, but maybe this is a bit unfair.

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Thankfully for me I don't have a lot of experience with German police, but maybe this is a bit unfair.

 

Trust me it isn´t! So far every single interaction I had with the police has been an absolute catastrophe! From incompetence to ignorance to sheer corruption. I´ve seen it all. If I had to rate them like a customer service they wouldn´t even get one point. (And that´s the german police, don´t get me started on something like the croatian one......)

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Trust me it isn´t! So far every single interaction I had with the police has been an absolute catastrophe! From incompetence to ignorance to sheer corruption. I´ve seen it all. If I had to rate them like a customer service they wouldn´t even get one point. (And that´s the german police, don´t get me started on something like the croatian one......)

Too bad. Finnish police is usually very nice bunch of people. Too bad our local Police reality TV series isn't translated in English. Very down to earth and cool guys usually. Watching something like American Police TV series, it's the complete opposite to those bragging filthy pigs.

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An American president, Richard Nixon, had to resign. Something like that could probably happen in Hungary or Poland, not in Russia, China, or Saudi Arabia.

As most people in this forum (ArmA-fans are not CoD-fans), I'm an amateur-historian, so yes, I know watergate.

But in that case, the free-press was not so independent, just Democrat-oriented. So this example is not to fit provving the existence of free-press.

 

But you are right: in Hungary and Poland there is media in both side. There are news and TV stations and portlas in leftish liberal side and in the righty conservative side too. And me as a righty, conservative, pro-gov citizen, of course read the news and articles on every side. Yes, the liberal side too.

And this is why Hungary is not China, even if the german journalists like to call us as totalitarian dictatorship.

 

But! There was no such a balance always. Before Orban, the 99% of media was in the liberal side. And people cannot get the whole body of truth, only the liberal side. So they cannot decide freely. And when Orban-fan businessmen started to buy media to the other side, the EU started ring the bell, this is medness and Orban try to destroy the "free-press" in Hungary, so to arms and let destroy the nazism in Hungary. It was a bullshit. Orban didn't destroy the "free-press" (the liberal side media), just create an opposition. Now the score is 50%-50%, what is correct. But EU never stop blaming our government with this false accustaion "Orban destroyed the free-press".

 

And now this is what happening in Poland too. The new government need media, because all mayor, mainstrem media is in the hands of liberals. So they try to create a few conservative ones to make the balance fair. And what western media do? The very same as they did with Hungary.

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And now this is what happening in Poland too. The new government need media, because all mayor, mainstrem media is in the hands of liberals. So they try to create a few conservative ones to make the balance fair. And what western media do? The very same as they did with Hungary.

 

Yes, that's the case indeed. From what I read here and there it's not impossible, so all, who expect public media to be plain and simple pro-gov propaganda tube, may be surprised a bit... or not. Just it's not so inevitable as we could think. Thing is, some people has already a complete, assumed a priori fearsome vision, what gov will do with Poland, even tend to interprete, what's factualy is going on to fed that vision. It's silly, whole this empty hysteria already is perfect, natural material for cabaret - used by some already. So maybe let's just wait to see instead of fruitless what-ifing, woe and lamentations on the future. Anyway the fact is, big part of Polish society, roughly those, who voted for current gov, is cheering gov's actions and plans. Some most impacient even hustle PiS, complaining, it's too slow. There is a big support and need of changes from the common people despite hostile media. 

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such media even lie and misinform

i gave example 

previous government made law that prosecutor can order wire typing endlessly without permission of court, just 3 month period renewal, 

new government changed it and shortened prosecutor only to 18 months without approval of court, 

all leftist media lied to people shouting "PiS made wire typing and spying citizens longer, it was 3 months now they raised it to 18, do something, go to street, riot, protest against government, we must erase them" etc. 

while in fact new government SHORTENED spying of citizens from endless time to 18 months without court approval , 

PiS also want to give benefits for parents, 120 euro per child, all leftist media informed that they "withdrawn this pre-voting promise" 

it is pathetic when government (first time after 1989) fulfills pre-voting promisses and media inform it is opposite

PiS starts work on child support benefits, issues laws, organize budget - leftist media inform that they are withdrawing their promise , 

so our new Prime Minister even had to take special message to people of Poland because of those media lies

 

leftists who keep media want to get rid of democratically elected government cause lots of them will loose jobs or even can face justice for some economical crimes , a guy told to be "paid by banks" even tried organize riots- he failed, 

previous government leaders - wiretyped scandal tape leaked 2 days ago - also say on leaked recordings that they want organize riots

 

simply lot of corrupted people sucking budget money can or already lost jobs (of course state paid jobs) when new laws will come to live, lots of high ranked public servants will loose jobs (all directors in all ministries), we have to clean Poland from corruption, nepotism, ex commie kids filling all best paid jobs in public financed sector 

 

i know a lot of examples of people who are not educated properly, who would not get job other than mc donald, but who are "shining stars" in ministry of this or ministry of that - cause their parents were in Militia before 1989

 

the best example is that clerk has 2000 PLN, 2500 PLN, director has 15 000 PLN + bonuses, but there are offices and ministeries where 1 director has ... 6 clerks under him and where this director is least educated person in his team, second salary in team has one girl, also not good educated, but someones daughter, 

in public sector lots of money were wasted on corrupted state orders (for example stupid repainting buildings every year , most expensive bus stops overpaid dozen times etc)

those people gonna loose profits, so they fight in media

 

http://niezalezna.pl/74617-minister-adamczyk-dla-niezaleznapl-o-znikajacych-miliardach-i-oszustwie-platformy

recent audit in Ministry of Infrastructure shown that during gov of previous cliques some bilions "disappaeared" 

btw . Poland was told to have the most expensive 1 km of road while we are cheap labor, strange 

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But in that case, the free-press was not so independent, just Democrat-oriented.

Remember what we said: being independent doesn't mean you have no bias. The Washington Post is still a pretty good newspaper.

 

So this example is not to fit provving the existence of free-press.

Maybe we should clear things up.

When I talk about free press I mean the possibility to write articles without the risk of prosecution, prison, violence, torture, death. Note that I compared Poland and Hungary to some countries where the press is not so free.

Unrelated to the dependence of the press, it's still possible for someone in Poland or Hungary to write an article like in the case of Watergate.

It basically was a way for me to say that the press situation in Poland and Hungary is maybe not great, but also not so terrible.

 

And this is why Hungary is not China, even if the german journalists like to call us as totalitarian dictatorship.

Nah, just some. They do that because they like to be dramatic. Different is the case of those who see a trend in that direction, which I believe to be more correct.

 

But! There was no such a balance always. Before Orban, the 99% of media was in the liberal side. And people cannot get the whole body of truth, only the liberal side. So they cannot decide freely. And when Orban-fan businessmen started to buy media to the other side, the EU started ring the bell, this is medness and Orban try to destroy the "free-press" in Hungary, so to arms and let destroy the nazism in Hungary. It was a bullshit. Orban didn't destroy the "free-press" (the liberal side media), just create an opposition. Now the score is 50%-50%, what is correct. But EU never stop blaming our government with this false accustaion "Orban destroyed the free-press".

I want to repeat my point: don't just look at the press that agrees with you. Look at the press that uses good arguments, reports good news, is "honorable". A press you can trust. Actually, look at more trustworthy and honorable sources, not just one.

 

And now this is what happening in Poland too. The new government need media, because all mayor, mainstrem media is in the hands of liberals. So they try to create a few conservative ones to make the balance fair. And what western media do? The very same as they did with Hungary.

Maybe things are not completely clear.

I understand that this thing of giving the state tv to the politicians' friends has always been a habit in Poland. That's not good, and in that sense it explains what the current government did. But making a bad habit official just makes things worse, especially considering that it is coming from a government party that has the word "justice" in its name, and promised to clean things up in the country. That's definitely not a good start.

 

But I will say it again: personally, considering the situation, I am not so concerned by this; it just gives a sign of things to come. Different is the problem with the constitutional court. That's bad.

 

Thing is, some people has already a complete, assumed a priori fearsome vision, what gov will do with Poland, even tend to interprete, what's factualy is going on to fed that vision.

Not completely correct, sorry. News is actually starting to come in, and it doesn't look good.

Any complaint is not completely without basis.

 

I'm not sure if now it's okay if I answer your posts or not, by the way. I admit I suffer a slight confusion.

 

simply lot of corrupted people sucking budget money can or already lost jobs (of course state paid jobs) when new laws will come to live, lots of high ranked public servants will loose jobs (all directors in all ministries),

of course. They are or will be replaced with even more corrupt people, sucking even more money.

You haven't figured that out yet? Wait and see.

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I'm not sure if now it's okay if I answer your posts or not, by the way. I admit I suffer a slight confusion.

 

Man, that's totally up to you, if you wish to answer my posts. :)

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It basically was a way for me to say that the press situation in Poland and Hungary is maybe not great, but also not so terrible.

What is not great when media is slipped 50%-50%? What should be better? If the media 100% owned by liberals as it was before Orban?

Why do you think it is "not so terrible"? In my opinion it's best state in the last 200 years.

 

Nah, just some. They do that because they like to be dramatic. Different is the case of those who see a trend in that direction, which I believe to be more correct.

And what is the direction in your opinion? Because in a country like Poland where media is owned by liberals, it's a good direction when right-wing party start organize competition to the liberal media golem.

And the problem with the "dramatic" interpretation of german press is, the EU leadership informed from these news and a few days ago, Günter Oethinger (who is not just a parlaiment member, but a minister of EU) demand to take the power away from the demorativcally elected Polish government and EU send a new government without election. And all this because of the false alarm bells.

 

I want to repeat my point: don't just look at the press that agrees with you. Look at the press that uses good arguments, reports good news, is "honorable". A press you can trust. Actually, look at more trustworthy and honorable sources, not just one.

Again, because probably I was not clear: in Hungary, there is no such thing "honorable" press. There are liberal and conservative press and all show a little piece of truth. This is why responsible citizens like me, read news from all sides. I read the liberal news and the conservatives too. And the only honorable medium is me, who put the pieces together and discover the whole truth. 

 

That's not good, and in that sense it explains what the current government did.

My question was (not to you, but Tonci, because you join to this later): It was good when the previous government did it? I1m asking this, because nor the german media, nor the EU don't complain the previous government, when they put their friends into the TV station and the constitution court.

This is why I told first: the EU has problem only when conservatives do this. When liberals censored the media and put friends into the supreme court, it's OK to the EU.

And to be clear (and again, because I told this earlier): I understand, some one has to stop this infinit loop and don1t send friends into media and court. But why this government? Why not the previous one or the next one? I know the answer, so it was just rethorical...

 

I am not so concerned by this; it just gives a sign of things to come.

And what are these things what come? It's easy to answer: the same as in Hungary.

When Orban won the first election, western media ringed the alarm: "Oh my god, nazism is Hungary, things getting worst, one year and Orban will shoot Jews to the Danube". And then passed 8 years and there is no nazism in Hungary. Jews live here peacefully (because Orban didn't let their arch-enemies into the country). The press is free. There is no totalitarian dictatorship. And this is exactly what will happen in Poland too.

 

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What is not great when media is slipped 50%-50%? What should be better? If the media 100% owned by liberals as it was before Orban?

Why do you think it is "not so terrible"? In my opinion it's best state in the last 200 years.

You should really stop thinking in terms of partisanship. Look first at good news, not news on your side.

You can have 50-50, but if that means the Bild on one side and the Sun on the other side I think I'd rather have 99-1

 

And what is the direction in your opinion? Because in a country like Poland where media is owned by liberals, it's a good direction when right-wing party start organize competition to the liberal media golem.

The direction is definitely of less respect for democracy. And again, it's not only, and not mainly, this media story. I'm more concerned by the constitutional court problems.

 

And the problem with the "dramatic" interpretation of german press is, the EU leadership informed from these news and a few days ago, Günter Oethinger (who is not just a parlaiment member, but a minister of EU) demand to take the power away from the demorativcally elected Polish government and EU send a new government without election. And all this because of the false alarm bells.

No he doesn't. He is only talking about monitoring. He is commissioner for Digital Economy and Society, he is just doing his job.

 

Again, because probably I was not clear: in Hungary, there is no such thing "honorable" press.

I can't believe all the press in Hungary is like the links vilas continuously posts.

I can't comment about the Hungarian press, but I'm sure some must be at least readable.

Try also to read international press.

 

My question was (not to you, but Tonci, because you join to this later): It was good when the previous government did it? I1m asking this, because nor the german media, nor the EU don't complain the previous government, when they put their friends into the TV station and the constitution court.

This is why I told first: the EU has problem only when conservatives do this. When liberals censored the media and put friends into the supreme court, it's OK to the EU.

And to be clear (and again, because I told this earlier): I understand, some one has to stop this infinit loop and don1t send friends into media and court. But why this government? Why not the previous one or the next one? I know the answer, so it was just rethorical...

I believe Tonci already gave an answer; I guess he can repeat that himself. I'll answer for myself, repeating that the fact that the previous government was doing bad things is not a good reason to make even worse things; because making that crap official with a law does make thing worse. They are not just continuing the same loop. Same applies to the story of the judges in the constitutional court.

Why this government? Because this government is in theory committed to justice and to clean policy. They should make things better, not worse.

Great start guys.

 

EDIT: why don't we instead ask the opposite question? What is the reason for this government to make this law? Is it to improve democracy? The economy? Or maybe their own interest?

And they did it pretty quickly too. Fighting tax evasion? Reducing bureaucracy? Not important. First we have to put our guys in the important tv spots; that is what will change the country.

 

And what are these things what come? It's easy to answer: the same as in Hungary.

When Orban won the first election, western media ringed the alarm: "Oh my god, nazism is Hungary, things getting worst, one year and Orban will shoot Jews to the Danube". And then passed 8 years and there is no nazism in Hungary. Jews live here peacefully (because Orban didn't let their arch-enemies into the country). The press is free. There is no totalitarian dictatorship. And this is exactly what will happen in Poland too.

Let me be clear: no one is really believing that these countries are, or will be, authoritarian regimes. Not even Schulz, I'm sure. Don't be impressed by this rhetoric.

But we can say there is a damaged democratic process, when most of the press is controlled by the state (yes, I know it was like that before; that doesn't change the point), and when the constitutional court is crippled. Also, doing things like increasing taxes just to punish the evil corporations doesn't sound like good economics. Populist laws don't go very far.

And don't forget that we are talking about a party that was already at the government. And it looks like the guy who pulled the strings then is still pulling the string.

See, all these things mean that probably the situation won't improve in the coming years. It has been some months and they already made quite a mess.

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I believe Tonci already gave an answer; I guess he can repeat that himself. I'll answer for myself, repeating that the fact that the previous government was doing bad things is not a good reason to make even worse things; because making that crap official with a law does make thing worse. They are not just continuing the same loop. Same applies to the story of the judges in the constitutional court.

Why this government? Because this government is in theory committed to justice and to clean policy. They should make things better, not worse.

Great start guys.

 

EDIT: why don't we instead ask the opposite question? What is the reason for this government to make this law? Is it to improve democracy? The economy? Or maybe their own interest?

And they did it pretty quickly too. Fighting tax evasion? Reducing bureaucracy? Not important. First we have to put our guys in the important tv spots; that is what will change the country.

 

 

 

Basicaslly the answer I would have given. The new government promised to make things better, to bring more democracy and get rid of corruption. But what do we see? They do even worse things than their predecessors (concerning transparency and democracy) as soon as they got into office. If I voted for them I would be quite pissed....

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I voted for them, with few doubts, but there wasn't anyone better. Now, after first weeks, I would vote for them again, only more convinced this time (didn't expected such vigor (although some said, they should take media faster to avoid some of all this crap) and serious approach to the promises). But it's too early for any reliable evaluation. Time for assessing the condition of the state will come, but at the end of their term. 

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