European Politics Thread.

[oxmox 73]

Hopefully the question about an EU membership isnt on the table anymore .... <_< 

[sudayev 27]

Ham Sandwiches And Sausage Rolls May Be Banned From Office Kitchens For Being 'Offensive' New guidelines proposed by interfaith group CoExist House say that employers should consider worker’s religions before allowing ham sandwiches placed in the fridge alongside other products

 

https://uk.news.yahoo.com/ham-sandwiches-sausage-rolls-may-125409172.html#LzSTecW

 

 

I wonder what the UK's constitution says about freedom... Is it still there or what I've just read is a sick joke.

In my opinion instead of some ridiculous "no-pork solutions" they should have asked non-muslim Britons to sign up the Jizya. The sooner - the better  :lol:  

[vilas 473]

whaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa? ban ham in UK ? when europeans will wake up and stop it

i know that Oxford Univeristy Press some time ago banned piglet and pigs related articles

i know that subway in some parts banned pork, 

i heard about muslim shop assistants who were refusing selling ham or alcohol but this ... eh

[bardosy 154]

About how we are not colony.

This day, at 1849, the Austrians executed 13 Hungarian generals at Arad.

Where are the Austrians liberals, who always demand to making excuse from everybody.

I have no hard feelings with normal Austrians, who love their own country. But these nationless bastards, who lie all the time, hurt a lot, demand excuses, but never do excuses... it's the perfect time to them.
 

[dontknowhow 33]

About how we are not colony.

This day, at 1849, the Austrians executed 13 Hungarian generals at Arad.

Where are the Austrians liberals, who always demand to making excuse from everybody.

I have no hard feelings with normal Austrians, who love their own country. But these nationless bastards, who lie all the time, hurt a lot, demand excuses, but never do excuses... it's the perfect time to them.

 

I am not sure how relevant this is, but this is about 20 years before the Austo-Hungarian empire. Besides, executing rebel generals has been normal for quite some time.

 

I repeat what I said: you are not a colony. And if you could also drop this "enforcement" thing it would be nice. It was a regular vote of the European Council. Only one person uses the force concept, and he is a real idiot. I believe he has been beaten up when he was a child. See if you can do better.

[vilas 473]

 

And if you could also drop this "enforcement" thing it would be nice

 

if you drop denying reality would be nice too

not only Shultz forces, others want punish different countries by paying to given funds hundreds milions of dollars

[dontknowhow 33]

if you drop denying reality would be nice too

I thought you would have an idea of how I deny reality by now. Don't start again and see if you can stay on the point.

Schulz is an idiot and doesn't do shit. The Council does. With a vote. Call it enforcement if you like, I call it democracy.

[Tonci87 163]

Schulz is actually not that powerfull as you might think Vilas......

 

If he was, Europe would have reacted to the immigrants years ago because Schulz has been telling everyone that this would happen and that something has to be done for the last three or four years

[vilas 473]

after his words he should be dismissed

[dontknowhow 33]

Schulz is actually not that powerfull as you might think Vilas......

 

If he was, Europe would have reacted to the immigrants years ago because Schulz has been telling everyone that this would happen and that something has to be done for the last three or four years

I think I missed that. For what I know the only people ringing the alarm were the Italians, for obvious reasons

 

 

after his words he should be dismissed

There is actually some merit to that :)

I don't know why he spoke like that. He must have some issues

[vilas 473]

 

He must have some issues

commies for example believe that their ideas of "giving happines to others" must be forced on those who do not want it "cause they know better" and those who do not want to "share their wealth" are evil,

Saudi Arabia-like, Jews (specially from USA) and Israel shout about giving refugee status while they do not do it themselves but build thick tall walls,

 

Shultz sounds like their combination "i want to help people, but i do not have possibility, so i will point gun and force someone, i will take away his wallet, give to other, look how much i helped"

 

modern version of Robin Hood, but this time he  want to rob poor to give another poor , because this another poor is from minority and in politicall correcntess by definition being minority equals being right and uber alles, i minority reprsentant say 2+2=5 than all calculator are racist, and he get into this philosophy , if i force natives, took money from natives, give to others, i am so good ,

 

he want to be like Robin Hood, get votes of minorities ,

but opposite to Robin Hood he has no balls to rob nobles,

but minorities will vote for his party, so more votes,

 

Schultz like USSR - "fights for peace"

 

lefits from EU behave following "we all will be united loving mixed family, if you do not want love, we will kill you", because their idea is to create United States of Europe and delete "odd, outdated" thing as "nation" , even few people on this forum earlier said that conception of nation, national countries is outdated

Schultz represents them

 

concept of USoE are not only in 2-3 heads but in more heads, people who do not feel any roots, connections or vice versa, want few ruling countries to rule over 20 others totally, USoE is 1984 - nowhere to escape cause everywhere there is the same,

they push realization of USoE hidden, when some countries behave like soveirgn they getting angry, i hope that people will more prefere soveirgnity and keeping tradition - mulitulti is essential , cause homogenic societies will not allow for USoE (because than one country is stronger, other nation is weaker, and nations tend to be equal, not that one works harder, other not, one nation get funds, other not) mixed societies are divide et impera easy

[dontknowhow 33]

commies for example believe that their ideas of "giving happines to others" must be forced on those who do not want it "cause they know better" and those who do not want to "share their wealth" are evil,

Saudi Arabia-like, Jews (specially from USA) and Israel shout about giving refugee status while they do not do it themselves but build thick tall walls,

 

Shultz sounds like their combination "i want to help people, but i do not have possibility, so i will point gun and force someone, i will take away his wallet, give to other, look how much i helped"

 

modern version of Robin Hood, but this time he  want to rob poor to give another poor , because this another poor is from minority and in politicall correcntess by definition being minority equals being right and uber alles, i minority reprsentant say 2+2=5 than all calculator are racist, and he get into this philosophy , if i force natives, took money from natives, give to others, i am so good ,

 

he want to be like Robin Hood, get votes of minorities ,

but opposite to Robin Hood he has no balls to rob nobles,

but minorities will vote for his party, so more votes,

 

Schultz like USSR - "fights for peace"

 

lefits from EU behave following "we all will be united loving mixed family, if you do not want love, we will kill you", because their idea is to create United States of Europe and delete "odd, outdated" thing as "nation" , even few people on this forum earlier said that conception of nation, national countries is outdated

Schultz represents them

 

concept of USoE are not only in 2-3 heads but in more heads, people who do not feel any roots, connections or vice versa, want few ruling countries to rule over 20 others totally, USoE is 1984 - nowhere to escape cause everywhere there is the same,

they push realization of USoE hidden, when some countries behave like soveirgn they getting angry, i hope that people will more prefere soveirgnity and keeping tradition - mulitulti is essential , cause homogenic societies will not allow for USoE (because than one country is stronger, other nation is weaker, and nations tend to be equal, not that one works, other not)

don't see it like that. Everybody wants to be right. Schulz is honestly a special case, I agree; I don't think I have ever heard anyone talking like that. And I'm sure he said it because he knew he had the majority. I'm sure he doesn't want a minority ruling.

 

It happens that things go against you. That's how it works: you lose some, you win some. It's part of being a union.

Until a few years ago most decisions were made unanimously. One tiny country disagreed and everything was ruined. That changed with the Lisbon treay; now it's by majority (double qualified majority actually) for most of the issues, including immigration. I think that's the way it should work.

[vilas 473]

and thats why there should refferendum on Lisbon treaty in all countries,

for me it is unacceptable that France, Germany will tell me what to do here

such treaty ended friendly EU

[dontknowhow 33]

and thats why there should refferendum on Lisbon treaty in all countries,

for me it is unacceptable that France, Germany will tell me what to do here

such treaty ended friendly EU

Why do you always see it in terms of France and Germany? Almost every country agreed with that. You can see it in this forum that many people supported that decision. I might turn the argument around and say that it's unfair that 4 countries, and pretty small too, block the whole union.

And I wouldn't see it as who decides what to do, but as making a decision together. If you want to always have it your way you should do like the Brits and leave the union. And even there, if Poland stays with a parliament, you will always have someone "telling you what to do" (if Poland doesn't keep a parliament, well, even worse)

[[evo] dan 79]

Why do you always see it in terms of France and Germany? Almost every country agreed with that. You can see it in this forum that many people supported that decision. I might turn the argument around and say that it's unfair that 4 countries, and pretty small too, block the whole union.

And I wouldn't see it as who decides what to do, but as making a decision together. If you want to always have it your way you should do like the Brits and leave the union. And even there, if Poland stays with a parliament, you will always have someone "telling you what to do" (if Poland doesn't keep a parliament, well, even worse)

 

I'm not surprised as he seems to have completely skipped my last post about how your average Brit has suffered since the Eastern European states joined as far as wages being depressed by the mass influx of cheap labour. Or that a fair amount of big business is owned by foreign companies (such as Cadbury's, or our energy companies being owned by EDF and RWE).

[vilas 473]

don't laugh from "conspiracy theory" as it makes sense :

destroying eastern europe industry > result - big market to sell own products (cause own market is full , cause everyone has what he needs), destroying industry creates qualified cheap labor which has to migrate,

easten european qualified skilled workers migration was natural, as destruction of industry here caused over 20 percent unemployment (before 1989 such thing as unemployment not existed , half it was fictional, but in country where everyone had job suddenly level of unemployment reached over 20% people were fighting to get even junk job and people were finishing endless curses to be more skilled, i remember this insanity when we were told that without masters degree we cannot clean streets and 3 foreign languages are something basic , in west such people are super qualified, in 2002 it was here basic to get junk job) , when computers were entering industry for us AutoCad fluent skills was basic,

cheap labor > lower down natives (host country) life level , more profits for oligarchy (lower cost, similar profits)

allowing middle east migration > cheaper labor , not safe streets

not safe streets > native allow to more police state, natives do not care about privacy and rights, but demand safety than, safety is offered with "bonus",

huge riots or civil war and dying old people > no banrkupting system ( cause lots of old people = banrkutping system )

 

so it sounds more like planned than like chaotic

 

if you had society that is lazy, demand comfort, assertive which care about privacy and luxury and social security how you can force them ?

you must put them down not by force - cause they have democracy and they can vote

so you must enter other element, which will destroy their basis of existence, so you either create war nearby or you destroy industry nearby, natural is flood ,

if Poland not joined EU - in 2003 with over 20% unemployment - we would had there revolution and blood bath cause frustration of people was very deep (employers even wanted people to work for free "just to have input in cirriculum vitae") i also remember "graduate contracts" (staże po studiach) , where people to had anything to put in CV agreed to work 3 months for 480 PLN (110 Euro for 3 months of work), employers were offering "first month for free as try",

first week for free "trial version of job" was here normal ,

 

when we joined EU our salaries not doubled but arosen high (employers had to pay more cause we told them we emigrate)

thus our business is angry and want Ukrainians now ,although i do not know if saying "our" is proper, when lots of Ukrainians who work nearby work in Carrefour,

before 1989 we had maybe not top modern industry but we produced lots of tanks, machines, ships, Mi-2 helicopters etc.  and weapons too, fabric iindustry (cotton, linnen)

 

people who destroyed it in 1989 knew that it will cause huge unemployment and huge unemployment always gives cheap labor,

opening border in such situation always cause cheaper labor abroad (competition)

 

violence, rapes on streets cause need for more police state - so allowing for more rapes, is in future allowing to make police state

 

usual Brit (with all respect) do not have to graduate university to get job as shop asistant or in mc donald, when you have > 20% of unemployment, than some employers are so mad that they demand PhD to sell shoes in shop and in most job offers you have 2 languages as essential basic skill , lorry driving license and etc. irrational demands (by cuting labor costs our businesman could buy BMW M7 Alpine, Porshe, Ferrari etc.) i know example of businesman who was not paying for work (but hiring for "try period" which built 3 big houses and now hires those houses as hotels for rich tourists )  i worked for guy who also hated to pay us money and he had than in 2002 ca. 2 milions PLN by year of income (450 000 Euro) which we found case later ex workers sued him ,

there was reason that in such poor country like Poland, we had one of first Ferrari and Lamborghiini and Bentley saloons in post-commie block,

 

medical personell on west is high salary job, but to be doctor you finish expensive studies,

here doctors had (now they have 5-10 times more) 1600 PLN (less than 400 Euro) in 2000 (my ount was so i know)

and now you open border and you have cheap qualified doctors , your doctors loose job, our patient has no treatment and dies before retired fund is empty,

for such saved money politicians buy themselves limusines and store money in Swiss bank

 

with honest sytem those politicians would be controlled by society if they not abuse power, budget, etc.

now money laundry of EU taxes goes to such level that state contracts are being sucked by few top-rich businessmen of few countries, and all those businesmen were officers in intel,

Poland has more and more debts , and we build one of most expensive roads by kilometer, which means companies doing it simply steal tax money and in February our prime minister gave herself "bonus" like 90 000 Euro money, sons of politicians sit in banks , daughters of politicians earn huge money for "blogs advertisments", debt is higher and higer and in 5 years someone will propose "why don't you sell whole your land" (if conservatists won't sucseed)

so i haven't ignored your fact, simply i focused on other issue , but it is surprise that UK industry is in German hands too,

but do not expect better live conditions if you not focus on britexit, do not expect eastern europeans to work in UK when our indsutry was destroyed and we have no place to work ,

i graduated univeristy of technology, i should work in factory, but there are not much such factories,

my uncle was technical director, when XXXX (name of company which appear in internet in many bribes scandals) bought his company, machines went to Germany, empty hall was used as warehouse and later it was destroyed and land sold to developer to put there few blocks , becaue price for which they bought company was lower than price of ground, so they sold ground with profit, my uncle was unemployed and had to live from aunt money only, politicians who made this today sit in EU parliament and earn maybe 23 000 Euro per month other politician sit in one British bank as "advisor", kids of those politicians probably are now clerks in Brussels

he was electronic equipment constructor , not cleaner

[dontknowhow 33]

I'm not surprised as he seems to have completely skipped my last post about how your average Brit has suffered since the Eastern European states joined as far as wages being depressed by the mass influx of cheap labour. Or that a fair amount of big business is owned by foreign companies (such as Cadbury's, or our energy companies being owned by EDF and RWE).

Don't think so

Cheap labot from Eastern Europe happens basically everywhere in Western Europe, and it's not really a problem. I believe the UK is no exception, and I honestly hear it for the first time. It would be very surprising if it were

And the EU is not supposed to be land to conquer for the British companies. Some do well, like Vodafone, some don't. Besides, even with the UK out of the EU, there would a free trade agreement. Those companies would be bought anyway.

 

Let's be honest: the simpe reason why the British don't want to be part of the EU is that they don't trust us. They think they are better off alone, making their own decisions, because the EU goes against their interest. Fair enough, I don't think we will die

 

 

so it sounds more like planned than like chaotic

I won't laugh, but your level of conspiracy theory is really impressive. And no, it doesn't make sense.

 

Here's the simple truth: there was no need to destroy any industry, because the industry was already destroyed. It's the main reason why communist regimes couldn't stay. Maybe they could have tried a more controlled approach, but you had to somehow compensate an economy that wasn't working. Basically that means more money from the EU; a lot of it.

So I don't think it was planned, but I believe they knew it would happen. It couldn't be much different. The approach is what is usually done: some funding, but mostly focus on long term, structural changes.

Now, after 20 years, I think we can say things are by far not so bad. Of course Eastern Europe still has a lot of catch up to do, but many economies are doing qute well. Poland, in particular, is very strong; part of it is because other Eastern European economies don't have 40 million people. Sure, salaries are still low, but things are improving quickly, above the EU average.

You mentioned Ukrainians. Give it 10 or 20 years and you will see people from South America, Asia, Africa. Those people, I promise, will only be "forced" by their own needs. And I understand Carrefour can be pretty strong, but nothing prevents Poles to build their own Carrefoursky. Eastern Europe has already many small companies, like the one that owns this site. I wouldn't be so negative.

[vilas 473]

we cannot have our Kowalski markets, simple:

- western banks bought all our banks, who will give credit ? who will give credit to competitive activity ? 

- western supermarkets do not pay taxes, our shops pays, so we have bigger cost and cannot be competitive , friend of my (in English word "friend" is over used, so it is neighbor, from school) had grocery shop, he bankrupted, cause in wholesaler he had bigger price than market on shelf, he was not able to sell cheaper, he had to pay 19% CIT , many markets have tax free decisions, also VAT returns etc. 

 

without re-nationalization  some things cannot be fixed 

 

 

 

Here's the simple truth: there was no need to destroy any industry, 

 

not true, we produced lots of cotton, machines, weaponry , electronic components , chemical components (even soap, shampoo doesn't require hightech)

i know one example from early 90s, one country wanted to buy our AKMS rifles for army, US made embargo on this country, later released embargo, now their army has M16A2, 

Mi-2 helicopters which fly worldwide all were made in Poland (Russia not produced Mi-2, they just constructed), 

our cheap low-tech cars were used in Egypt , Iraq, Mongolia and exported there, 

India, Lybia, Yemen, Iraq and others were driving our T72 and T55

our shirts, jeanswear , wool, linen clothes too

ship building companies, 

we had program to build our tank, than our gov. took from Bundeswehr 128 Leopard 2A4 from 80s, now 128 Leopard 2A5 from 90s , 

our industry produce very good PM84 submachinegun, than our generals orded UZI for police, 

our industry produced Honker 4x4 jeep, it was cheap, but our generals in 1992 ordered Mercedes G for army, Landrovers for Police and Border Guard, 

it is not true we not produced anything, we were kind powerfull economy producing many arms, electronic products for Warsaw Pact, 

all telephones, conection junction boxes for miitary conection in Warsaw Pact were made in ZWUT where my uncle was director, 

scopes, lunetes , microscopes were made in PZO on neighboring street where parents of my friend worked for decades doing stuff for hospitals  and army, now all is ZEISS, 

in many countries there is doctrine that own army uses own production for some reasons, here in early 90s corrupted generals decided to take all from abroad, and this hit industry, 

another hit was "popiwek tax" , this tax in 1989-1990 killed lot of industry and was later deleted, "popiwek" tax was  huuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuge ( https://pl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Podatek_od_ponadnormatywnych_wyp%C5%82at_wynagrodze%C5%84) , than western companies were paying 0 tax as "let abroad capital will come", 

ELWRO produced electronic for army etc. 

we had big industry and this industry would be competitive to western if in 1989-1990 it was not destroyed, 

if there was company producing shampoo and soap 2 streets from my home, this is not hightech but everyday use product, this company was bought very very cheap by foreign company during corrupted privatization, 

new owner destroyed company and sold land for developers to build buildings, and since than we are not able to buy our shampoo or soap, only imported, 

such thing like shampoo or soap is not rocket science, but everyday product produced in milions of bottles, destroying one company in huge city or region makes 3-10 milions of consumers more for company that destroyed it, now we buy for example French or German shampoo and pay for transport, so we buy the same shampoo that Germans but with few cents more while we could buy our for half

http://d.polskatimes.pl/k/r/1/64/67/532bdf8086209_p.jpg

journalist compared prices in 2 shops, Poland, Germany, we have the same products but more expensive (cost of transportation)

 

so once again you miss obvious facts 

[dontknowhow 33]

it is not true we not produced anything

I didn't mean it like that. If you hadn't produced anything you would be Somalia, not Poland. But there was a huge gap in terms of productivity and efficiency. You can ask our German friends how it went after the reunification in the 90's

[vilas 473]

 

 

But there was a huge gap in terms of productivity and efficiency.

 

liberals say that, what is efficiency ?

worker in all country using shovel dig meter of sand in similar time, just in one country minimal hour wage is 7 dollars in other 1 dollar, 

but both dig trench with shovel in the same time, 

efficiency measured by money is biggest in diamond mine but lowest in onion farm, 

"efficiency" is fake-term made by liberals to hide dirty tricks

you cannot tell me that fork lift operator in one country is more effective than fork lift operator in other country, 

or AKMS made in US private gunsmith company is made in much more efficient economically way than AKMS made in Polish or Hungarian factory, 

 

if someone say by efficiency than German addonmaker is more efficient than me cause in year he make 10 cars for mod "for 1000 euro" while i done in year 50 cars for "200 euro" (if we were making money on addons, which we don't but i say as comparision and metaphore) 

no, it is me who is more efficient cause i made 50 cars in year, he made 10 cars in year , (metaphoner of course, i use addonmaking as example)  

but his hour wage is prescribed by his law to be 10 euro, my law do not say about minimal hour wage and now conservatist oposition promise to regulate it to 3 euro, because some companies pay 1 euro, 

 

it is fake term

 

money cannot count it, because profit generated by worker base on wage in country, 

in Switzerland or Norway or Luxembourg man sitting and farting has more euro per hour than our surgeon 

and their economy (Swiss, Luxembourg, Cyprus, whatever like) is partly from bank sector (which is not effective like human digging shovel, but which exists cause "everyone" store there money, do laundry, and pay in tax-haven)

 

if you want to measure efficiency - measure Polish , German, French, Russian, American worker how much time he need to do given duty 

due to labor rights German, French, Swedish worker would refuse to spend 16 hours in job, our workers don't 

so in 1 day our worker can do twice more 

just if salary is 5 times lower than 5/2=2.5 less "efficient" ?

[dontknowhow 33]

but both dig trench with shovel in the same time

That's the problem. They don't; or maybe they do, but it won't be the same. One will be able to dig trenches quicker and better, like deeper and more stable trenches, with hard concrete and nice toilets. He/she will also have customers that pay more, because they will have their own better trenches, which they will profit from. He/she will be able to do that because it will be possible to buy better tools, because the tool maker does the same things to produce better tools, with better technologies. Those tools will be more expensive, but it's an investment this trench digger can afford.

Obviously there is also a sort of psychological aspect, in the sense that I prefer to go to the German trench because I know it. But that's only part of the story.

 

And it's true that who has diamonds profits more, but not many people have diamonds.

 

Again, why do people buy German cars? The whole world is a German colony? No, they are simply better. Aside from the VW problem, obviously.

 

This thing is turning into a macroeconomics seminar

[vilas 473]

people buy cars on given price shelf 

people buy cars that are sold on given market and which also have good p.r.

old soviet cars, old Polish vans still work despite they have 30 years, 

if someone has better tools it is because his boss is more rich and bought better tools

they both dig similar

but one has rich boss who has better tools, cause other one was bombed and ruined in 2 wars and occupation, other had colonies and profits from them

[dontknowhow 33]

old soviet cars, old Polish vans still work despite they have 30 years,

Wait, let me get this straight: are you putting UAZ at the same level as BMW and Mercedes?

[vilas 473]

you as usual use eritistic, i said about price levels (price shelves) 

[dontknowhow 33]

you as usual use eritistic, i said about price levels (price shelves) 

Just trying to understand what you mean. You know, what you write is not always very readable, sorry to say.

So you are saying that UAZ's are good for the price? That's exactly my point. There is a difference in terms of quality and efficiency (and reputation), and you have to compensate that with a difference in price.

If I understand you correctly, obviously.