European Politics Thread.

[NoRailgunner 0]

Just some news from Italy: http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-04-21/italian-police-seize-1-5-billion-u-s-securities-from-man-s-car.html and older one http://edition.cnn.com/2012/02/17/world/europe/italy-counterfeit-bonds/index.html?hpt=hp_t3.

[PELHAM 10]

Hi all

just to brighten up the mood

Full article

http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=30403

Global Research again? http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Globalresearch.ca ;)

Its view of science, the economy and geopolitics seems to be broadly conspiracist.

And who is Ellen Hodgson Brown? "an attorney practicing civil litigation in Los Angeles". Someone who wrote a book and set up an organisation in 2011 to promote it with herself as President? hmmmmm? There are around 10 members of the Public Banking Institute, around 25% seem to have some sort of financial experience (not particularly indepth) the rest don't.

And you expect us to take this seriously?

While Ellen Brown's personal opinion is thought provoking. It just a personal opinion. I could write a paper stating that the way people perceive the difference between orange and red is all wrong and start an organisation called the Institute of Chromatic Perception with myself as president. Sounds very authoritative: PELHAM, President of the Institute of Chromatic Perception. Meaningless titles are meaningless and the opinions that go with them should be scrutinised very carefully.

Edited April 23, 2012 by PELHAM

[mrcash2009 0]

And you expect us to take this seriously?

[EDIT]And you expect me to take this seriously?[/EDIT]

Global Research again?

Wikipedia alternative?

[Mr. Charles 22]

Hollande wins election while Rutte considers leaving office and i guess that Merkel is pretty pissed :o

[Tonci87 163]

She never smiled anyway....

[Rovka 14]

Rutte has left office.

Fixed. Rutte I cabinet has fallen, and turns inactive until elections are held (most likely.) in autumn.

[Pyronick 21]

Rutte I cabinet has fallen and simulataneously operation Frisian Flag, a training mission by various European air forces, has commenced. Just saw a Norwegian F-16 passing by and it seems people actually think there is a war going on.

Either Dutch people fail to recognize F-16's as friendly or people are just plainly naive.

[vilas 473]

returning back to european-economy issue, our leaders get one new idea , "to fight crisis we must have the best payed liders and managers" so...

there is idea to rise much more wages/salariest of following groups: ministers, vice-ministers, directors in offices (state offices), governors etc. .... (by the same time civil servants and clerks have wages frozen till 2016 )

this way propaganda convince people that "our best specialists (best friends and cousins) must earn more to rule better" :/

so salaries in state-sector will not be changed to 2016 (we only get less, for example i have 10% less than before 2010) but ministers, governors, directors will soon get much much more and whole mainstream bullshit propaganda forces following article in whole mainstream propaganda press "bosses haven't got too much" etc. (nonsense to give links in PL language)

"poor" directors in time of crisis :/ i just wait when finally we will have boiling point because of this "crisis" bullshit (during "crisis" wages of banksters raised here few times)

Edited April 30, 2012 by vilas

[nettrucker 142]

This is really an excellent vid. I couldn't agree more with Mr. Farage

ez-88_hIrLY&feature=related

The EU is just like the Titanic after having hit the iceberg.

Watch their faces . . . nobody has a clue how to solve this mess. The European Parlament is deserted most of the time . . . where are those politicians who should find a solution to our problems?

Mr Farage seems the only one, to have the guts to acknowledge the failure of the EU. The others seem pretty much to ignore what is coming at us or maybe they don't care at all.

[Serclaes 0]

I can't watch the video because of that shitty internet connection here. But I've seen many videos from Mr. Farage. The problem is with him that he is a british "nationalist". And of course he is against everything that threatens british sovereignity and he draws a very grim picture, so he's right like a broken clock is right twice a day.

Now don't get me wrong though. I dislike the EU as an instution because I just think that how they are doing it is wrong. But I'm not opposed to the idea of peace in europe, which was the initial goal of the ECSC (which is coincidentally what Mr. Farage wants).

[Baff1 0]

Mr Farage is pretty much usually correct in my opinion. It's more likely he's the working clock and EU is only right twice day.

But I wouldn't exactly describe him coming out as with anything about EU failures as "brave".

It's his default setting.

Brave for him would be to stand up and wax lyrical about something or other the EU is getting right.

LMAO or maybe to get back in a light aircraft.

[Prydain 1]

Farage is a character, nothing more. The ideas that he has are borne out of mindless optimism, however UKIP might add to the destruction of the Torys which is always a good thing. The truth is that the UK hasn't come through the crisis in any better state than the Eurozone and, with Brazil economy surpassing the UK economy, his rantings about hardening our borders against our historically linked and culturally connected family isn't going to help us from slipping down the pile. Leaving the EU, as Farage wants, is so stupid that even the Conservatives would never do it even though they flirt with the idea at every election just to grab a few votes. Britain doesn't want to be banging on the gates in 5 years crying to let them back in.

Just a personal note on that plane crash, I photographed the helicopter (testing a camera) carrying Mr Farage to Coventry University hospital not knowing he was in it that day.

[Baff1 0]

Being in the EU is a mistake for great Britain. Both culturally and economically.

It could have been a lot better if our politicians were willing to negotiate on behalf of our nation rather than for their own personal gains or "the good of the EU".

The idea that we should remain in the EU with our economy in this state we are in now seems rather unfair to all those people whose jobs are being cut and whose wages are being curtailed and whose military is being nerfed.

It's been over ten years and we have still to turn a profit there.

It also makes a mockery of the government for acting so willfully against the mandate of it's elctorate. It undermines the very fabric of our democracy.

Further to this the lack of clear poltical primacy allows our government ministers to duck the responsability for their own actions by passing the blame to Europe.

Who ever calls for and intiates a vote iob EU membership before the next election will win it outright. Be they Conservative or Labour.

My guess is that while both are making such noises, netiher will as usual.

Neither will because they all prefer their mates and potentially themselves having high paid jobs. And for Mr Cameron and Mr Miliband the doling out of such jobs gives them a poltical power over their own parties which thy are loathe to surrender.

In the end the Conservatives only have two real choices if they want an outright victory at the nect general election. Hop that Scotland has got independance by then or slay the UKIP dragon, by putting forward a bill for EU referendum in advance of an election.

At which point any party that campaigns against it, won't get elected. Wiping out Labour and the Lib Dems on the spot.

[Prydain 1]

In the end the Conservatives only have two real choices if they want an outright victory at the nect general election. Hop that Scotland has got independance by then or slay the UKIP dragon, by putting forward a bill for EU referendum in advance of an election.

At which point any party that campaigns against it, won't get elected. Wiping out Labour and the Lib Dems on the spot.

The problem is that your man, Dave, is the typical crooked Thatcherite but he isn't mad. There are some in the government who propose that, if we adopted the Euro, we would be in a stronger state than we are today and I have to say, the figures don't lie about a larger domestic market being a good option. The reason why Scam hasn't even come close to giving the people of the UK a referendum is because he knows that he and his party will be destroyed if the economy goes wonkey, as it will in all likelihood.

As far as "wiping out" partys goes, it is clear that the Labour party is the default party of the people and it is only a long reign or a bad term that deseats them these days. The thing the Torys need to do is offer a better deal to the average man, destroying the party over Europe isn't going to help face down Labour's very simple messages that people lach on to.

The Lib Dems, yeah, whatever. They are the component of the coalition government that is going to hand the next election to Labour. Lib Dem voters aren't going to vote for the the team that basically forgot about their ideals just for a sniff of power again. It is another reason why Scam can't promise a referendum on the EU because that will just exercise the Lib Dem voters (who are mostly Pro-EU) who would just have stayed at home to get out and vote for Labour. You may say "well, hes going to loose anyway" but this is politics, with a massive mandate like that Labour could just about kill the right-wing, especially since their media has lost all credibility recently.

If the Conservative party wants to win the next election they need to get rid of Scam, Gideon and all of Thatcher's spawn and adopt a centre-right stance that is more relevant to real people.

[PELHAM 10]

Labour's very simple messages that people lach on to.

Simple messages for simple people? It's a one line winner every time. RE EU referendums Labour promised one not to long ago and then promptly U-turned on it. Have we forgotten all their misdeeds including that one? Are the memories of simple people so short? Can I ask who suggested that being in the Euro would have left us stronger, I would love to know who said that! Being in the Euro would mean we would have to pay for the failed economies of Southern Europe. Alistair Darling, signed Britain up to the fund during the last few days of the Labour Government, a very costly mistake which has taken 2 years to correct. UK Taxpayers are currently liable for enormous contributions to the £50bn fund, thankfully legislation will correct that this year.

http://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/news/article-2141179/Britain-stop-pouring-billions-EU-bailout-fund-Cameron-vows.html

[Baff1 0]

Yes matey Labour are currently promising another EU referendum again. Unspecified time and date. Don't know where, don't know when, definetely not here, now, or any time in the future as far as I can tell.

It's not that politicians don't know what their electorate wishs them to do, it's just that they have no intention whatsover of actually doing it. They would rather be politically illegitmate than out of power.

If there is one thing we can pretty much rely on them to do it's to sell out their own people anytime it advantages themselves to do so.

The problem is that your man, Dave, is the typical crooked Thatcherite but he isn't mad.

He's not my man.

Did I read you right when you said if we adopted the Euro our country would be in a stronger position today?

That's a truely bizarre assertion given Black Wednesday and the current Euro Crisis.

Labour is the nasty party. It's all about social division and class war. Malign horrible people. It's a dreadful message to be pushing.

They need to pretty much get rid of their entire front bench to rebrand themselves as members of the human race. Maybe more than that.

The economy is always going to be a trust issue with them obviously.

I'm not sure how often historically Labour parties have been elected during economic crisis.

I don't think Mr Cameron and Mr Osborne are any great assets for the Conservative party. Their great strategies took them from a pretty much guarenteed landslide victory to a hung parliament.

I concur with you that their removal might well increase the Conservatives electoral chances. I just don't think they are all that smart.

And I don't think yet another promise of a referendum from every single party that goes into election is going to cut any mustard with the electorate. Everyone can spot a liar.

Actions have to be taken first in order to regain trust. Pretty much all politicians can say what they like in the run up to an election these days. Not a single one of them is going to be believed whatever the subject.

I think the reason that Mr Cameron will not call for an EU referendum is that it is a valuable tool for him. The same for all the other party leaders. The ability to assign MEP jobs to party members is how he maintains his position as party leader. A valuable lever of his power. It's a self-sustaining corruption inherantly built into the system.

Edited May 21, 2012 by Baff1

[CamoLady 1]

I don't like Mr. Farage or his politics - I'm pro-EU - but I certainly hope that he's alright and has no lasting effects from this crash! :(

[Prydain 1]

Did I read you right when you said if we adopted the Euro our country would be in a stronger position today?

I will have to read this out again for you.

From my previous post:

There are some in the government who propose that, if we adopted the Euro, we would be in a stronger state than we are today and I have to say, the figures don't lie about a larger domestic market being a good option.

Now, specifically, I can find very few in the Government agree with this but it doesn't help when they are people like Kenneth Clarke (who has his admirers) and pretty much all of the Lib Dems. This is a belief that is held by all the Lib Dems - soon to be Labour voters - that I know and, indeed, is held throughout the party from Paddy Ashdown downwards.

I do believe in a larger domestic market for businesses in the UK and, in general, the idea of Europe being united tingles me a bit although a federal Europe isn't convincing me yet. Plus, for me, travelling is important and the easing of the borders and freedom and security to travel throughout the EU has been a benefit in my life so I'm hardly going to be anti-EU. Yet all of the talking points about the EU in the UK are negative so I like a Ashdown or Clarke to sometimes talk about practical issues. Labour are more pragmatic when it comes to Europe, I don't think we would have saw Scam's debacle in December last year where he basically went to the EU summit and wanted to be broad-chested in favour of banks and at the expense of the UK. He left with nothing while the 26 other states agreed to an accord.

With the inability for the Torys to come up with an alternative to more integration they are loosing the argument for people like me who can't be persuaded on low-brow nationalistic rhetoric alone.

[griffz 1]

my god, a lucky guy . auto-rotation is the 1st lesson to learn

---------- Post added at 01:42 PM ---------- Previous post was at 01:31 PM ----------

We (Finland) bought 64 of those and are now totally screwed with them.

As in current economical situation we have no funds to arm them properly and US refused to sell AMRAAM for them. Then our imbecile government did not take into account that they can't get the armament at a same price as in US.

This was propably one of the reasons Finland did not send any planes to Libya.

HAHA , owned . holy USA , they are fox's . it's the only valuable thing of this plane.

[PELHAM 10]

Labour are more pragmatic when it comes to Europe, I don't think we would have saw Scam's debacle in December last year where he basically went to the EU summit and wanted to be broad-chested in favour of banks and at the expense of the UK. He left with nothing while the 26 other states agreed to an accord.

Eh? That was a move by the EU to to destroy the financial heart of the City of London and introduce restrictive legislation in the UK that would make it more conducive for financial institutions to to move elsewhere. Cameron quite rightly told them to get stuffed and Sarkozy was apoplectic with rage when his scheme to lure business to Paris failed. He was hoping to add that as something positive for his election campaign. I would not pay any attention to Nick Robinson, he can hardly be expected to be impartial after his cosy role in 'government' and close relationship with certain politicians was ended at the last election. His bitterness is more than obvious ROFL

[Iroquois Pliskin 0]

Mr Farage is pretty much usually correct in my opinion. It's more likely he's the working clock and EU is only right twice day.

But I wouldn't exactly describe him coming out as with anything about EU failures as "brave".

It's his default setting.

Brave for him would be to stand up and wax lyrical about something or other the EU is getting right.

LMAO or maybe to get back in a light aircraft.

He's trivial in his theatric opposition, though a plane crash does resemble similarities to that of Polish high-ranking staff elimination in the Katyn crash, who had been opposed to some vital areas of European integration. Next time they ought to use.a.bigger.plane for this kind of endeavors.

... and let the Russians deal with the next one. Hehehe.

[Baff1 0]

I would not pay any attention to Nick Robinson, he can hardly be expected to be impartial after his cosy role in 'government' and close relationship with certain politicians was ended at the last election. His bitterness is more than obvious ROFL

While it's obvious that the BBC is torn between it's institutional bias and it's position as mouthpiece of the government I don't particularly notice Nick Robinson.

The one who sticks out on my radar is Stephanie Flanders. The Economics editor who repeatedly dresses up political theory as economic theory. It's pretty poor in my opinion.

In the end, not a great news source for me.

[mrcash2009 0]

As regards Nick Robinson, on the day Cameron entered number 10 he did a small piece to camera kneeling down with paps at the front of number 10, as Cameron pulled into downing street with wife to exit car and enter number 10 Nick Robinson uttered "entering new world order" in his skit to the camera. I remember it as I was watching live, no one has placed this online from sky news live reel and have been looking for it, so yeh, good ole nick, he knows what side his breads buttered and that whoever is in at the time.

Hes kneeling down to camera in the longer shot in this clip

it was around this point.

[nettrucker 142]

This is a nice one . . . watch and enjoy.

EPcWHBPYOSU

[kavoven 4]

This is a nice one . . . watch and enjoy.

I never thought I'd say that - but please read the Youtube comments. Its just propaganda from people who actually are stupid enough to think that the breaking of the Euro would be a good thing. In some way, they're like those who keep on making debts - they don't look in the future.