European Politics Thread.

[scary 0]

"suffer the consequences" is not a sentence, it barely qualifies as a clause. You, nor anyone else here, has any idea of the other words surrounding those three, and, therefore, no idea of the context or meaning of them.

Also, that quote appears nowhere on the link about the World Cup you provided, a source that appears quite fond of using partial, context-less sentences as quotes. It also seems to be populated by wingnuts with such insightful things to say as:

Quote[/b] ]"Perhaps some un-named security service should just kidnap the whining little idiot. We can't kill him then he will be a martyr(to some idiots) but if he simply disappears oh,well."

"Why is the world allowing this cockroach to consolidate his power? Kill him. And I don't mean in a bunker ten years from now, but yesterday. Just because the New York Times hasn't carried it doesn't mean it isn't a real threat. He is a filthy vermin--kill him."

"61. Let him In, Track His Flight, Shoot Him or Shoot Him Down!

Here is the chance to get him out of Iran and within the line of our sights."

And this one infering that all Germans deserve punshing for events of over 60 years ago is a blinder:

Quote[/b] ]It would be a sweet dejavu for Germany, 70 years after Berlin Olympics, to see a new Fuhrer in the stands... Those who do not learn from history are civilized worlds worst enemies, not fuhrers that pop up now and then. Without useful idiots no dictator stands a chance.

I would surmise that it is not a reliable source aimed at the slightly dim.

[Nemesis6 0]

The Jerusalem Post is a right-wing paper, but it's not unreliable. As for the comments left there, that is irrelevant. The Jerusalem post is read by both leftists and rightists.

[scary 0]

Any source that cannot provide contextual, correctly annotated quotes, preferably with links to its own sources is unreliable. A source that has a slant, be it right-wing or other can be considered suspect. It fails on both counts.

By providing poor standards of quoting I could make it appear that Gandhi wished to kill all Swedes.

[deanosbeano 0]

Quote[/b] ]By providing poor standards of quoting I could make it appear that Gandhi wished to kill all Swedes.

MY GOD MAN !!! What about IKEA

[Nemesis6 0]

Ok, you deny the authencity of the article. No problem, read the interview for yourself then - http://service.spiegel.de/cache/international/0,1518,418660,00.html

[deanosbeano 0]

thanks for the link nemesis, they asked some very good questions.

jus one thing tho, you quoted him has saying this

Quote[/b] ]Ahmadinejad to Europe: Support Iranian Nukes or "Suffer the Consequences

but i cant seem to find it ?

is there more pages than in the link ?

or are you reffering to this sentence.

Quote[/b] ]The third mistake was Europe's stance on the nuclear issue. Europe will be the big loser and will achieve nothing. We don't want to see that happen.

[Nemesis6 0]

Nope, the quote should have been on the second page, which, to my great fortune, is not "erreichbar" today! That's annoying.

[turms 0]

Couldnt find it on the second page either. Do you really have a source for this or are you making this up?

EDIT: the page 2 link works for me..

[deanosbeano 0]

unfortunate that it isnt there, as a european i would like to see that in its full context, sounds very aggressive , no matter i will look at archive.org later ,they will have the original.

[xawery 0]

The article on the Spiegel site has one sentence similar in content, but quite different in tone to the sentence Nemesis posted.

Quote[/b] ]However, Ahmadinejad warned that Europe should "side with Iran" in the current nuclear conflict. Otherwise, Ahmadinejad warned in his SPIEGEL interview, "they will suffer only damage."

I'm not one to bagatellise Ahmadinejad nutiness, but this sounds quite different than "obey, or suffer the consequences!". The funny thing is, Jpost was quoting an article from SPIEGEL, not the other way around. Obviously they chose to give the already threatening statement some extra spin by using the word 'consequences'. There is no truth in this world, only semantics

[turms 0]

I think we just made another step forward here, Walker. Once again, you have, indirectly, responded to a post of mine even though you previously declared that you would not do so in the future.

Ahmadinejad to Europe: Support Iranian Nukes or "Suffer the Consequences

http://www.jpost.com/servlet....howFull

Quote[/b] ]Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad warned Europe that it should support his country’s nuclear program or “suffer the consequences.â€

In an interview to be published in the German Der Spiegel on Sunday, Ahmadinejad also expressed his doubt regarding the Holocaust, saying that even if it had occurred, the Jewish state should have been established in Europe, not in Palestine.

“I only accept something as the truth if I am truly convinced of it,†he asserted.

The Iranian president, who previously stated his intention to travel to Germany for the World Cup games that will take place there this summer, said that he had not yet decided on the matter. Iran is one of the 32 nations participating in the world-wide sporting event.

“My decision depends on a lot of different things,†Ahmadinejad said.

Hello nemesis, could you please provide your sources for the quotes you provided?

i allready asked them once, and if you cant back up your "article" , then i will report your post to a moderator for flaimbaiting.

[Nemesis6 0]

I thought unusually hard about what to reply to that message, because it is, like many others, a post asking for a source. The problem I'm facing is - Your previous post(s) suggest that you did indeed check out the source I provided, and now you threaten to report my post because I didn't provide any source...

I'm confused.

[scary 0]

Ok, you deny the authencity of the article. No problem, read the interview for yourself then - http://service.spiegel.de/cache/international/0,1518,418660,00.html

That's a much better article, thanks. It still doesn't contain your quote though. Instead, it shows Ahmadinejad for what he really is: petulant, annoying and a master of ambiguity.

He's no angel, but he's also no demon either. He may like to sabre-rattle, but he's certainly not the threat to the world some like to portray him as. I guess some people just need to have an enemy.

[Ares1978 0]

Nothing to be confused about, Nemesis. It looks like you are making stuff up, when you quote things that can't be found on the pages you are referring to.

The quote "Suffer the Consequences", for example, doesn't exist. And why is it so important? Because it can very easily be understood as a threat and because it's supposedly a quote by Ahmadinejad. And since he apparently never said that, it looks like you are putting words in his mouth.

Don't take this as an accusation.

[Nemesis6 0]

By siding with Iran, the Europeans would serve their own and our interests. But they will suffer only damage if they oppose us. For our people is strong and determined.

There's the exact sentence. Not the same words, admittedly, but the same message.

[scary 0]

There's the exact sentence. Not the same words, admittedly, but the same message.

No, that's just one of Ahmadinjad's trademark ambiguous statements. Or it could be the result of translation - English not being his first language, something often forgotten.

Take a look at the whole statement and you will notice:

Quote[/b] ]We understand the Americans' logic. They suffered damage as a result of the victory of the Islamic Revolution. But we're puzzled why some European countries are opposed to us. I sent out a message on the nuclear issue, asking why the Europeans were translating the Americans' words for us. After all, they know that our actions are aimed toward peace. By siding with Iran, the Europeans would serve their own and our interests. But they will suffer only damage if they oppose us. For our people is strong and determined.

The Europeans risk losing their position in the Middle East entirely, and they are ruining their reputation in other parts of the world. The others will think that the Europeans aren't capable of solving problems.

So this 'damage' that Europe will suffer has already been suffered by the US, apparently. Meaningless drivel really.

[raedor 8]

There's the exact sentence. Not the same words, admittedly, but the same message.

No, that's just one of Ahmadinjad's trademark ambiguous statements. Or it could be the result of translation - English not being his first language, something often forgotten.

The interview probably was translated to German first and from German to English...

[Postduifje 0]

Quote[/b] ]Dutch lawmaker quits in asylum row

Tuesday, May 16, 2006; Posted: 9:00 a.m. EDT (13:00 GMT)

THE HAGUE, Netherlands (AP) -- Somali-born member of the Dutch parliament Ayaan Hirsi Ali said Tuesday she will resign and leave the country after the Immigration Ministry said she was improperly granted citizenship.

Hirsi Ali said she had made the decision Monday night, after Immigration Minister Rita Verdonk told her "she would strip me of my Dutch citizenship."

"I am therefore preparing to leave Holland," Hirsi Ali told reporters in the Hague.

Hirsi Ali falsified her name and date of birth on her asylum application when she arrived in 1992, fearing reprisals from her family after she fled an arranged marriage.

She was granted a passport in 1997 and acknowledged the falsification in 2002 during vetting as a candidate for parliament. There were no objections then.

But after a television program re-aired the matter last week, Verdonk ruled her naturalization had been improperly granted.

Dutch vice-prime minister Gerrit Zalm, who was the leader of Hirsi Ali's VVD party in 2002, spoke at the same news conference and said he was "amazed at the speed" with which Verdonk's decision was made.

"If she reapplies for citizenship, I trust her application will be handled with the same urgency," he said.

Hirsi Ali became internationally known after the murder of filmmaker Theo van Gogh in November 2004.

She wrote the script for Van Gogh's film "Submission," which criticized the treatment of women under fundamentalist Islam, and offended many Muslims.

Van Gogh's murderer left a note threatening Hirsi Ali impaled on the corpse with a knife and she has been under continuous police protection since then.

The Dutch state had been scrambling to arrange new housing for her after her neighbors in The Hague complained successfully last month that security arrangements for her had become an unbearable nuisance for them.

"It is difficult to live with so many threats on your life and such a level of police protection," Hirsi Ali said. "It is difficult to work as a parliamentarian if you have nowhere to live. All that is difficult but not impossible. It has become impossible since last night."

To get back on this, it just led to the Dutch government resigning for new elections

edit: article

[EiZei 0]

For better or worse, the European Union is now two countries bigger. Romania and Bulgaria have joined the fray.

Also, am I the only one who finds a yugoslavia-shaped hole in the map of the EU somewhat amusing?

[Omega9 0]

Question of confusement

"Monkies of French Surrenderment"

"Monkies of Cheese Eatery"

Apes not of France?

[Necromancer- 0]

For better or worse, the European Union is now two countries bigger. Romania and Bulgaria have joined the fray.

Also, am I the only one who finds a yugoslavia-shaped hole in the map of the EU somewhat amusing?

Such as Swiss is the other gap in the map of the EU. We should invade them.

I strongly wonder if the EU integration/absorption power is currently big enough to cope with another 2 near 3rd world countries.

We already have many poles coming all over the richer EU countries looking for jobs.

[Donnervogel 0]

Such as Swiss is the other gap in the map of the EU. We should invade them.

[iraqi information minister mode]bah you will commit suicide at the gates of Bern![/iraqi information minister mode]

nah seriously, why invade, just put an economic blockade on us and we're faster in the EU than you can say "chuchichäschtli".

[Bordoy 0]

Such as Swiss is the other gap in the map of the EU. We should invade them.  

[iraqi information minister mode]bah you will commit suicide at the gates of Bern![/iraqi information minister mode]

nah seriously, why invade, just put an economic blockade on us and we're faster in the EU than you can say "chuchichäschtli".

Well thats gonna take me forever to say so I imagine your not joining anytime soon

[Donnervogel 0]

Well thats gonna take me forever to say so I imagine your not joining anytime soon

Indeed Well I don't care. I am Czech citizen too so I can leech from all the EU benefits anyway

[PainDealer 0]

Also, am I the only one who finds a yugoslavia-shaped hole in the map of the EU somewhat amusing?

I find it somewhat relieving