USA Politics Thread - *No gun debate*

[ralphwiggum 6]

2) When the UN inspectors tell their supervisors that "somethings fishy here" and the rest of the intel commute is saying the same thing. chances are: if it walks like a duck, acts like a duck, and quacks like a duck, it sure is **** ain't no sheep.

Could be a duck in a sheep's clothing, could be a sheep in duck's clothing. Just because it looks like one doesn't mean it is. For example margarine and butter taste similar and have similar use but are different.

Quote[/b] ]4) DOW JONES BROKE 11K that's the highest ever there slick, AND the US was fighting three fronts at the time it broke. ARE YOU BLIND?

Mostly thanks to Clinton's work that DOW broke the 11000 mark. The stock market fluctuates depending on type of news AND how much certainty it sees in the future. Right now it's certain that future is not going to get better, so domestic earnings are taking larger contribution to the DOW's level. But as months go by, by August it will go down since that's when retails slow down.

Quote[/b] ]

5) It's war, right now US casualties are lower than the Philippine-American War (lasted 4 years).

More than who died in 9-11. That's 3000 lives that would have been kept if the Bush Administration did not go to a war they can't handle.

Quote[/b] ]6) if you declare war against a country do you think it will be good as new when you are done?

In fact yes. Changing reasons to go to a war is just another indication that it would have been better not to.

Quote[/b] ]9) increased level of corruption? do you know US history?

But does conservatives know that? Not really they have automated response of "Liberals are corrupt" and "Both sides do it" and use the two.

Quote[/b] ]If that is all the evidence you are basing the statements that the US is failing. Its common sense, If people are blaming the government for all of these problems then, man... the US public is too dependant on the government. Or just plain stupid.

Not surprisingly in forums where there are predominantly conservatives, this is the current opinion. Of course that same stupid people voted in Presidents for last.....few hundred years.....

[TrevorOfCrete 0]

Quote[/b] ]Atrocities happen in every war. i don't care what country does it or how, Nobody is innocent. All sides do it in time of war reguardless. You have good and bad in each and every side.

yes, its funny how that is used to justify US attrocities but if its anyone else, Saddam or the Russians, then its a different story.  Its like the attrocities in Iraq,  you cant use 'its war' as an excuse, because its not war, and the USA boasts a professional army.  In Vietnam and ww2 the USA had a drafted army, so attrocities can always be expected.  However in modern conflict its simply not acceptable, and thats the bottom line.

[fardwark 0]

The United States couldn't be everywhere.

Nobody asked them to, but that didn't stop them from trying.

because the US tries to do the thing that is morally right.

It's morally right to kill people to defend your own interests?

[Duke 0]

The person that told me it was my father. He was there, in person. My grandfather worked for the Govt after serving an entire career in the US Army, and being highly decorated. Now, I can seriously see why you havnt gotten that degree. You don't know squat obviously about the things that happened during the Vietnam War, in Korea. US forces came under attack on MANY, MANY occasions in South Korea, when the North would send small rockets in to the S.Korean/US Compounds. Communications had to be moved like every month, due to the fact that North Koreans were constantly taking it out or trying to. South Korean Commandos shot down 110 of their own civilians huh? Wow.. Go get your degree. Better yet, Go to South Korea. www.google.com 304th Signal Battalion based in South Korea. They were in charge of Communications in South Korea at the time. Don't even begin to argue with me about the Conflict between North Korea and South/US Forces during the Vietnam War. I've heard many things about it, learned alot about it, and I've seen many pictures of it.

It's funny and yet very obvious how blind people are and how they allow such things to bounce off their heads, choosing to not believe things that are of higher right then their own knowledge/opinions. I love Politics today. What a Joke they have become.

[Sophion-Black 0]

Quote[/b] ]US did not take much shit from world during Korean war, and Vietnam didn't matter so much in the beginning.

That's because the US was part of a UN intervention that was fighting against communism. something the UN was so scared about. And at the beginning of Vietnam the world hoped that the country would just stay divided and everyone would be happy. didn't turn out that way, so much for peaceful coexistence.

Quote[/b] ]You are trying to fit your narrow view of politicians into historical time frame, and doing a poor job by mixing current political climate and saying it applies to the past.

In Vietnam the US pulled out and said it would help South Vietnam if it saw a "serious or imminent danger." not long after the US left, North Vietnam rolled over the DMZ and on to Nha Trang. No US intervention. Then they rolled on to Saigon. On April 12th 1975 I distinctly recall a tearful man standing before his people to tell of his resignation and also saying something that I hope to the Almighty God that those words will never be said again. it was this: "The United States has not respected its promises. It is inhumane. It is untrustworthy. It is irresponsible." During his speech he read a letter from Nixon sent in 1972 saying "severe retaliatory action" will be made if the south was threatened.

<span style='color:red'>If the American people ever observes that scene again heads WILL roll</span>. Iraq is no longer a war, its a ring where the US has its last chance to contend against the world and prove it is indeed trustworthy, Responsible, and Respectful. We WILL NOT leave Iraq as we did Vietnam. Because if we do, look out world: the first armed revolution inside a nuclear state will occur.

Quote[/b] ]Could be a duck in a sheep's clothing, could be a sheep in duck's clothing. Just because it looks like one doesn't mean it is.

would you take that chance? would you gamble with the lives of thousands? would you trust a mass murderer and tyrant with that possibility?

Quote[/b] ]Mostly thanks to Clinton's work that DOW broke the 11000 mark.

I wouldn't pin that on a guy who kept loosing the codes to launch nuclear war.

Quote[/b] ]More than who died in 9-11. That's 3000 lives that would have been kept if the Bush Administration did not go to a war they can't handle.

It was a war that was very overdue. It should have been taken care of by Clinton in 1998.

Quote[/b] ]In fact yes. Changing reasons to go to a war is just another indication that it would have been better not to.

your missing the point, if you declare war on someone and then go into battle inside a city do you think the city after the battle would look like something out of the Mr Clean Magazine? NO!

Quote[/b] ]yes, its funny how that is used to justify US attrocities but if its anyone else, Saddam or the Russians, then its a different story.

The US didn't intentionally use NBC weapons against civilians, the US didn't purge millions to stay in power. The decisions that make the atrocities as they are aren't  made from the Pres, its way down the CoC. So blaming the US for something that was done by only a handful of people is like the US blaming Italy for giving US citizens bad pizza when it was sold by La Rossa's Pizza. It doesnt make sense!

Quote[/b] ]Its like the attrocities in Iraq,  you cant use 'its war' as an excuse, because its not war

you think Iraq is a place where everyone is happy? What makes you think Iraq is so immune to the problem every language, tribe, and nation has faced (War). You really think Iraq isn't in a state of war even though jihad joe drives down the highway strapped to a few sticks of ACME "KA-BOOM: PLUSE!" and presses the button after hitting a checkpoint? Are you nuts? There's still fighting going on.

Quote[/b] ]However in modern conflict its simply not acceptable, and thats the bottom line.

Humans haven't changed since the Romans. what makes you think they will do something they will regret later, regardless of their allegiance.

[Sophion-Black 0]

The United States couldn't be everywhere.

Nobody asked them to, but that didn't stop them from trying.

because the US tries to do the thing that is morally right.

It's morally right to kill people to defend your own interests?

Don't oversimplify the problem. If you have a guy in front of you with a gun and he is just a nanosecond away from pulling the trigger, are you just going to stand there and let him kill you because you don't think its right to kill a man?

If you are that stupid you deserve to be shot. It's people like that that has not common sense and thus criticizes everything for nothing. Take a look at Katrina, everyone blames the government for not helping the people in Nawlns. But did they have the common sense to get out? I know not all of the people were capable of leaving. The ones that were able to leave should have gotten out by their own means instead of relying on the government. People today need to understand that your personal survival is not on the governments agenda. It's up to your human instincts to take the initiative and do what you feel is right.

If the people of Nawlns did that then the government would have been able to evacuate all the people who needed evacuated. But no, they heard a free ride was coming and survival was overwhelmed by the "almighty" dollar... sad.

[EiZei 0]

4) DOW JONES BROKE 11K that's the highest ever there slick, AND the US was fighting three fronts at the time it broke. ARE YOU BLIND?

Are you delibarately forgetting that little thing called inflation?

http://www.dogsofthedow.com/dow1925cpilog.htm

[fardwark 0]

If someone was going to shoot me and I had the means to defend myself I would defend myself, yes. Now who is oversimplifying the issue?

Either way, can you in good conscience say that the US entered into armed conflict in Korea, Vietnam, Grenada, Panama, Iraq (both times) and Afghanistan to defend themselves?

[billybob2002 0]

Anyway, Stalin and his communist buddies knew that America would intervene if a Korean War happened and hoped North Korea would roll over South Korea before America came to South Korea's assistance. Remember, Kim Il Sung had to gain the support of Mao and Stalin for the invasion of the South.

If I am not mistaken, their primary objective was to tie down americans in Korea and grind them down with their superior numbers.

What? According to James Matray, professor of history at New Mexico State University, and me, Il Sung was able to gain the support of major Communist powers because he assured them that the North Koreans would take over South Korea before American forces could join the fight. Il Sung, like Rhee, wanted to unite Korea but under his system of rule. In fact, the United States hindered Rhee from invading the North by making the South Korea military a defensive one.

[EiZei 0]

Anyway, Stalin and his communist buddies knew that America would intervene if a Korean War happened and hoped North Korea would roll over South Korea before America came to South Korea's assistance. Remember, Kim Il Sung had to gain the support of Mao and Stalin for the invasion of the South.

If I am not mistaken, their primary objective was to tie down americans in Korea and grind them down with their superior numbers.

What? According to James Matray, professor of history at New Mexico State University, and me, Il Sung was able to gain the support of major Communist powers because he assured them that the North Koreans would take over South Korea before American forces could join the fight. Il Sung, like Rhee, wanted to unite Korea but under his system of rule. In fact, the United States hindered Rhee from invading the North by making the South Korea military a defensive one.

Well, my information is based on that recent Mao biography that I read. It's not excatly academic so..

[Duke 0]

Sophion-Black,

The problem with people today is that they think, everything should be in the Governments hands, whatever it may be. You are 100% correct. Another thing, Everyone seems to think that just because we are the World's Super Power, that a day after we go into combat, everything should be neat, clean, no casualties, no civilians hurt, etc... They obviously think War is easy. It is easier said then done. And about the statement, "The war has cost more lives then the 9/11 Attacks" Where are you? left field? Right field? Bleachers? Or what? The attacks were a one day thing. This war has been going on for a few years now. it is a WAR. Do you know what that is? We're in a war, fighting in a City. Fighting in a city is like fighting inside of an Ant Hill, constantly looking 360 degrees around you, because there is no front line. We're fighting terrorists, These people are willing and eager to kill Americans. Civilians alike. They do not care how or why. They will not stop either. Whether we pull out of Iraq or stay for the next year or so.. Do you think they will stop their attacks? If you do then you are pathetic and I'd hate to ever see you as a Country's Leader. This war should have been completed in 1991. But unfortunatly, we didn't. Now we are in a clonflict in which we don't have one option but, failure, or a long road to securing a Democracy in Iraq. I'm sorry that the likes of any democrat can't have his way overnight. if it weren't for our fucked up Media that shouldn't exist, or our retarded Politicians in this Country, we would be able to fight this war the way it's supposed to be fought.

[-Snafu- 77]

Quote[/b] ]we are the World's Super Power

Actually the world is more multi-polar. Super Powers

Sorry if this documentary has been mentioned here before but it's about 9/11. Loose Change

You can judge the documentary for yourself, I can't get my head round it to be honest with you.

[ralphwiggum 6]

The person that told me it was my father. He was there, in person. My grandfather worked for the Govt after serving an entire career in the US Army, and being highly decorated. Now, I can seriously see why you havnt gotten that degree. You don't know squat obviously about the things that happened during the Vietnam War, in Korea. US forces came under attack on MANY, MANY occasions in South Korea, when the North would send small rockets in to the S.Korean/US Compounds. Communications had to be moved like every month, due to the fact that North Koreans were constantly taking it out or trying to. South Korean Commandos shot down 110 of their own civilians huh? Wow.. Go get your degree. Better yet, Go to South Korea. www.google.com 304th Signal Battalion based in South Korea. They were in charge of Communications in South Korea at the time. Don't even begin to argue with me about the Conflict between North Korea and South/US Forces during the Vietnam War. I've heard many things about it, learned alot about it, and I've seen many pictures of it.

Just because your father said it doesn't make it so. Such incident do not go unnoticed and Stars and Stripes would print the news. You obviously cannot back up your statement, and I provided better evidence which was silmido incident.

If you are talking during Korean war, the US base was attacked, but after ceasefire treaty was made, there were no major attacks that occurred on daily basis. Stop beleiving your father's unconfirmed BS. Just because he served a few years doesn't mean a jack shit. Funny you told me to got South Korea. I spent 4 years there, my ex-gfs were Korean, and I read more about Korean history than your father and grandfather and you combined.

The reason why I didn't get my degree is because it would cost me extra 1 quarter, which I decided not to since I already had 2 majors and 1 minor done.

All these just confirms my suspicion that you are nothing but a troll, and I have no mercy for it. Unless you have direct proof that you can show me, you are pulling a BS on this

Quote[/b] ]It's funny and yet very obvious how blind people are and how they allow such things to bounce off their heads, choosing to not believe things that are of higher right then their own knowledge/opinions. I love Politics today. What a Joke they have become.

Funny that's what Bush ahs been doing and a lot of conservatives act that way too.

Good bye. You are banned.

[ralphwiggum 6]

Quote[/b] ]US did not take much shit from world during Korean war, and Vietnam didn't matter so much in the beginning.

That's because the US was part of a UN intervention that was fighting against communism. something the UN was so scared about. And at the beginning of Vietnam the world hoped that the country would just stay divided and everyone would be happy. didn't turn out that way, so much for peaceful coexistence.

It wasn't because of UN, it was because of Real Politics. As for Vietnam, in the beginning, French warned US after their pull-out, but there were no international opposition of US intervention in Vietnam.

Quote[/b] ]

Quote[/b] ]You are trying to fit your narrow view of politicians into historical time frame, and doing a poor job by mixing current political climate and saying it applies to the past.

In Vietnam the US pulled out and said it would help South Vietnam if it saw a "serious or imminent danger." not long after the US left, North Vietnam rolled over the DMZ and on to Nha Trang. No US intervention. Then they rolled on to Saigon. On April 12th 1975 I distinctly recall a tearful man standing before his people to tell of his resignation and also saying something that I hope to the Almighty God that those words will never be said again. it was this: "The United States has not respected its promises. It is inhumane. It is untrustworthy. It is irresponsible." During his speech he read a letter from Nixon sent in 1972 saying "severe retaliatory action" will be made if the south was threatened.

And why is that? Because the assistance we gave them was inadequate AND S. Vietnamese lacked will to stand up on their own. They got assistance all the way back from Kennedy era, but they just couldn't get their own work done.

Quote[/b] ]

<span style='color:red'>If the American people ever observes that scene again heads WILL roll</span>. Iraq is no longer a war, its a ring where the US has its last chance to contend against the world and prove it is indeed trustworthy, Responsible, and Respectful. We WILL NOT leave Iraq as we did Vietnam. Because if we do, look out world: the first armed revolution inside a nuclear state will occur.

It's a "ring" that we had choice to not go into. We had less than credible reason to go in there and now we are stuck. In such case, getting out is the most likely answer. Our credibility has been damaged by lack of WMD proof, continuing civil war. We don't have much to lose as a civilized world leader. Just the fact that majority of people now do not support Iraq war is proof that we are not happy with what this administration is doing.

Quote[/b] ]

Quote[/b] ]Could be a duck in a sheep's clothing, could be a sheep in duck's clothing. Just because it looks like one doesn't mean it is.

would you take that chance? would you gamble with the lives of thousands? would you trust a mass murderer and tyrant with that possibility?

Should I ban people here because of the chance that they will be banned? You'd say no because we have to have reasonable evidence to do it. And the proof that we had at the time did not justify the war.

Quote[/b] ]

Quote[/b] ]Mostly thanks to Clinton's work that DOW broke the 11000 mark.

I wouldn't pin that on a guy who kept loosing the codes to launch nuclear war.

His works during his time actually managed to put our economy on safer route. He was bold enough to cut federal spending(which conservatives criticized) and did more fiscal restraint than current adminstration did. In the beginning of his term, Dow was less than 8000 IIRC, and by the time he was out of office, it was over 10,000. That's 25% increase(or more) compared to 10% increase during Bush's term. granted there is two years left, but the world situation is not better, so I'd not hold my breath.

Quote[/b] ]

Quote[/b] ]More than who died in 9-11. That's 3000 lives that would have been kept if the Bush Administration did not go to a war they can't handle.

It was a war that was very overdue. It should have been taken care of by Clinton in 1998.

Which conservatives tried to paint as an act to dilute the Lewinsky affair even though it was legitimate. Conservatives complained against it, and now you are telling that he should have done more even though it was conservatives who were stopping him.

Quote[/b] ]

Quote[/b] ]yes, its funny how that is used to justify US attrocities but if its anyone else, Saddam or the Russians, then its a different story.

The US didn't intentionally use NBC weapons against civilians, the US didn't purge millions to stay in power. The decisions that make the atrocities as they are aren't made from the Pres, its way down the CoC. So blaming the US for something that was done by only a handful of people is like the US blaming Italy for giving US citizens bad pizza when it was sold by La Rossa's Pizza. It doesnt make sense!

Hiroshima is proof that we indeed used NBC weapon. We can do it, but we just don't do it after using it once. US didn't purge millions to stay in power, but did put that dictator there or at least help the dictator. I wonder if there were outcry from Republicans when Saddam used gas on Iranians.

Quote[/b] ]you think Iraq is a place where everyone is happy? What makes you think Iraq is so immune to the problem every language, tribe, and nation has faced (War). You really think Iraq isn't in a state of war even though jihad joe drives down the highway strapped to a few sticks of ACME "KA-BOOM: PLUSE!" and presses the button after hitting a checkpoint? Are you nuts? There's still fighting going on.

According to Rumsfeld and The Bush administration 3 years ago, yes

[TrevorOfCrete 0]

Quote[/b] ]The US didn't intentionally use NBC weapons against civilians, the US didn't purge millions to stay in power. The decisions that make the atrocities as they are aren't  made from the Pres, its way down the CoC. So blaming the US for something that was done by only a handful of people is like the US blaming Italy for giving US citizens bad pizza when it was sold by La Rossa's Pizza. It doesnt make sense!

well no not really becuase US troops are soldiers of the state and are paid, trained and ordered around by the federal goverment. im pretty sure La Rossa's Pizza isnt.  therefor the goverment ie. the USA is responcable for there actions, otherwise who is?

(deleted my last part becuase i write some stupid stuff on the spur of the moment)

[Baff1 0]

The United States couldn't be everywhere.

Nobody asked them to, but that didn't stop them from trying.

because the US tries to do the thing that is morally right.

It's morally right to kill people to defend your own interests?

Yes, it is.

[walker 0]

Hi all

With the complete failure of US and colaition foreign policy due to the needless invasion of Iraq:

No WMD

No link between Saddam and Al Qaeda

No link between 9/11 and Iraq

The imorality of the Pinko Commie NeoConMen of TBA

It is clear to see the dammage done to the once proud US Republican party by the Pinko commie NeoConMen of TBA and their godless supporters.

The NeoConMen used the US Republican party and the christian right like a heoroin addicted pimp with a pair of two dollar crack whores. The NeoConMen of TBA had their immoral way with them and put em back on the street. And like crack whores everywhere the Republican Party and the Christan right even went back for another slapping and being told to get back on the street. There is no sucker like the ones who are addicts to abuse.

And even now the NeoConMen cause more dammage to the US body politic. Whining on and on about needing more tax payers hard earned dollars like a heroin adict who is after "just one more" tax dollar fix. The big goverment republicans of the  NeoConMen are adicted to wasting tax payers money; throwing it down the same junkie habit hole, of just a little bit more and we can set Iraq straight. Sound Familiar?

While every one but the NeoConMen Iraq junkies can see they are a mess.

You can fool some of the people all of the time

They still manage to fool some people though. The ones who cannot or will not do the math. Fools! The US is saddled with so much tax debt your great grand chidren will still be paying it.

The US under TBA now owes more than $8,000,000,000,000 in debt

http://zfacts.com/p/461.html

Much of it is owed to China, who now largely calls the shots in US Asian relations and is already expanding its economic empire in to Africa, and South America. Only Russia checks it in the former soviet states.

Do the Math people!

The US national debt is over

$8,000,000,000,000

divided by

298,444,215

the US population as of 2006

https://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/factbook/print/us.html

If you are American every single one of you; besides your: credit cards, loans, car repayments, college loan and mortgage; You owe $26,805.68 of tax debt.

That includes your grandparents and children, all of them owe it. But that debt does not fall evenly your children will probably pay it but your parents are too old and will be dead before this debt is paid. It falls mainly on the middle class famlies and your children. Because the poor will never be able to pay it, and under TBA's tax cuts for cronies, TBA's pals wont be paying it either. You will!

In reality you probably owe many times that when you consider the facts of: the poor who cant pay it, and the rich who wont pay it.

If you are part of the labour force then

$8,000,000,000,000

Divide by

149,300,000

the number of tax paying employed people in America

https://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/factbook/print/us.html

Every worker owes  : *** $53583.38 *** of TBA increasing US tax Debt.

In reality if your a middle class US tax payer you have to pay even more than that.

You have to take in to account: those on low wages who cannot pay this because they are not paid high enough wages to pay it in the first place, then there are the unemployed and of course the ultra rich who get off paying taxes under TBA's tax handouts for rich cronies plan.

If all you had to do you just had to service the interest payments at around 5% on US bonds; you will have to pay at least $2679.16 a year in extra taxes under TBA. every Year from now toill you die, same goes for your children and grand children.

Your real TBA increasing TAX DEBT is nearer $100,000.00 and rising by the second.

Yes I know you will never be able to pay it. That is why I said your great granchildren will still be paying it when you are in your grave. I think I know what I would think of my great grand parents for turning my country from the richest in the world in to a third world nation.

It allways amazes me that because a junkie has a credit card or mom and dads inheritance to pay for their habbit others will not see there is no difference between them and the homeless junkie on the streets; that is untill the credit card is maxed out and mom and dads fortune is squandered.

Well the credit cards are about maxed out and I think the family silver and the flat screen TV are missing.

Awaken from your dreams America!

The Pinko Commie Reds in the White House bed are leaders of the US Republican party, the NeoConMen of TBA, and they have squandered the countries treasure, dragged its flag through the mud and sacrificed the lives of its heroes for lies, corruption and a revolving door job from the war profiteers.

Sadly Walker

[Baff1 0]

The United States couldn't be everywhere.

Nobody asked them to, but that didn't stop them from trying.

because the US tries to do the thing that is morally right.

And this is what makes the U.S. so scary. It's morality.

I believe in war for national intrest. Defend your borders, protect you intrests, enlarge your intrests, it's all good.

Life sacrificed to enhance the greater good of your community.

Anyone's proposition for war based on this outlook has me reaching for my checkbook.

A war against evil, an immoral political system or a belief not held by oneself however serves no purpose.

It is not for me to judge the lifestyles of others. It is not for me to say my morality is of higher worth than yours so you must die.

There is a preciding attitude in the U.S. that it's form of "democratic" government and the moralities held by it's own populace have equal relavance in other societies. More relevance in fact, than the people's who actually live their together.

That a person who knows how to morally behave in his circumstances can extend that morality to people living in entirely different circumstances is an enormous conceit.

Morality is a social code. A set of prinicples by which we all live easier with each other.

It is entirely dependant on the society you live in.

Outside of America, American morality does not apply.

This attitude is by no means limited to the U.S., here in Britain it is widely seen too. During the height of the Empire it was very much the norm. We were the master race.

The same can be said of the Germans last century and probably the Romans and every other empire I suppose.

While I have never killed anyone, I kill animals on a daily basis. I do so not because my lifestyle is morally superior, I do so because it is practical. It serves my purpose.

I believe in the sanctity of life, more so for taking it.

Life is a precious thing, to sacrifice it for an idea alone is a lunatic waste. A tragedy. I am not comfortable with sacrificing the lives of my own or even the lives of yours simply for the purpose of making me feel good about myself.

It is part of the fundamental principles of my culture to stand against this behaviour. It's how I have been raised.

If your aim is to take life to reinforce your belief in your morality alone, I will once again be reaching for my checkbook, but this time, I will be sending it your enemies. Certain types of people need to be contained.

It's symptomatic of a civilisation on the march. Prerequisite to the abuse of foreign cultures, and I applaud all cultures with the balls to stand up against oppression.

Even when them doing so is in direct opposition to my own personal intrests.

As a hunter, I respect my enemy. I find beauty in it, and feel regret in it's death. It weighs on my conscience.

I know what I have done.

Demonisation of an enemy is a proganda tool used by the administration to dehumanise it's population so that they will not object to the slaughter of their fellow man.

I do not approve. People should be connected. They should understand the price of their lifestyles. They should know.

Every time I hear how evil Saddam/Hitler/Stalin/Arhmenihjad/Kim/enemy figurhead of the day is. I cringe.

The people who say this, have an agenda; and that agenda is too kill.

Leaders and their regimes, militaries and civilians alike. With all the associated artrocities.

War.

Of course they will tell you it will be a clean war where the heroes, the good guys, will kill the evil villians with surgical strikes and Geneva conventions.

But actually it will be a war. Like every other war.

The slaughter and maiming of human life.

In the name of morality? That's not my morality; and anyone for who it is, is my enemy.

[Baff1 0]

Hi all

With the complete failure of US and colaition foreign policy due to the needless invasion of Iraq:

No WMD

No link between Saddam and Al Qaeda

No link between 9/11 and Iraq

It's not really fair to blame Bush for the WMD nonsense, that was Blairs hang up.

Bush was just playing along to help Blair get domestic support for the war, (which he failed to do).

Paying lip service to diplomatic attempts at coalition building when the U.S. was perfectly willing and able to go it alone.

[TrevorOfCrete 0]

Hi all

With the complete failure of US and colaition foreign policy due to the needless invasion of Iraq:

No WMD

No link between Saddam and Al Qaeda

No link between 9/11 and Iraq

It's not really fair to blame Bush for the WMD nonsense, that was Blairs hang up.

Bush was just playing along to help Blair get domestic support for the war, (which he failed to do).

Paying lip service to diplomatic attempts at coalition building when the U.S. was perfectly willing and able to go it alone.

but Bush was the one that suggested so heavily they had them. Just becuase Britian made the same mistake dosnt excuse Bush.

[walker 0]

Hi all

in reply to Baff1

In fact George Bush Junior did use WMD as the excuse for a Pre-emptive war. It was in his State of the Union address, it is there on record, indisputable fact.

WMD was also used by TBA in the UN to argue for the legal case for pre-emptive war. It was of course, we are now certain, founded on the dodgy intel provided for the cabinet by the Office of Special Plans(OSP) an organisation set up by TBA to deliberately feed itself every rumour, half truth and downright lie on WMD in Iraq without going through a professional filter in the intelligence community. And of course it is that false evidence, presented by TBA and TBA2 to the UN as their legal basis for war, that can in the future be used to bring all those involved to the Hague for war crimes.

In the time preceding the Iraq war the CIA, Pentagon and other professional intelligence CIA, Pentagon and other professional intelligence analysts were not able to speak to the US President and cabinet.

Instead they had to go and speak through a filter; in meetings with The Office of Special Plans, Rumsfeld's Amateur Private Secret Service who often did not want to hear their reports as they don't jell with what TBA wanted to hear.

You all need to read this article 3 pages in a US Republican magazine. http://www.amconmag.com/12_1_03/feature.html

By Lt. Col. Karen Kwiatkowski, who retired from the U.S. Air Force at the time. Her final posting was as an analyst at the Pentagon. Hence I believe it to be the most honest and verifiable of sources.

The OSP fed the US President and Cabinet the garbage inteligence it wanted. Garbage In Garbage Out.

Yet the NeoConMen and their whining, pinko, commie supporters, who took over the US republican party, still besmirch the name of brave US intelligence service men and women, who daily risk; their lives, liberty and torture for their patriotic work, only for the NeoConMen to claim it was not TBA's fault we went to war in Iraq.

It was TBA's fault.

TBA's and no others.

They lied and lied and lied again to bring us to this stupid wasteful, pointless war.

Angry as hell walker  

[TrevorOfCrete 0]

whats the basic diffence between the FBI and CIA? they seem so similar to me. It seems crazy to have two organisations that do such similar stuff.

[walker 0]

Hi TrevorOfCrete

FBI is domestic crime and terrorism

CIA is external to the US spying and intelligence on others.

Part of the reason is separation of power. Part of it is due to function. part is due to oversight. Part is due to different powers and latitude allowed in country as from out of country. Part is due to to who they liaise with, need to know, and keeping those groups separate.The local police men having access too and knowing who you agent in Teheran is is probably not a good idea.

The US also has: the various military intelligence and security departments of the Pentagon, the Secret Service and a whole bunch of others. Recently they have all been brought together under one organisation the Director of National Intelligence http://www.dni.gov/ John D. Negroponte who has announced his resignation.

The full list of Overt US Intelligence Departments is here

http://www.dni.gov/who_what/061222_DNIHandbook_Final.pdf Donald Rumsfeld's partisan NeoConMen amateurs from the Office of Special Plans(OSP) are notable in not being listed.

In the UK there are the various Military Intelligence(MI) departments. Each is numbered. Such as MI5 and MI6. 5 is internal and 6 is external. They are in two separate buildings 6 is the building you seen in James Bond and 5 is the an old building just up river from and on the same side of the river as the Houses of Parliament.

6 is also known as the Secret Intelligence Service(SIS) There are a whole bunch of other MI departments but they are a bit more secret. Each has its own number. Some are defunct, some are just Shell organisations that meet rarely and would only be instantiated at time need such as war. They are mostly controlled as far as any one knows by the Joint Intelligence Committee(JIC) which was founded in 1936.

There is a list on Wikapedia that may or may not be correct.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Directorate_of_Military_Intelligence

Kind Regards Walker

[fardwark 0]

The FBI can only harass citizens of the United States or people who are otherwise located in US territory, the CIA can only harass people who are not located in US territory.

[Sophion-Black 0]

Quote[/b] ]everything should be in the Governments hands

Lets pull that down to domestic issues should be in the peoples hands, foreigner in Government hands... after all that's how its supposed to be. but the public can't trust the government to do that... why? because the public doesn't see what the government sees.

Quote[/b] ]It wasn't because of UN

If you take the UN and you push them out of the picture who is really left to criticize the US?

Quote[/b] ]And why is that? Because the assistance we gave them was inadequate AND S. Vietnamese lacked will to stand up on their own. They got assistance all the way back from Kennedy era, but they just couldn't get their own work done.

S. Nam was totally reliant on the US for logistics such as tank and vehicle parts. We supplied them with the equipment but we didn't hand over the factories. Besides, S. Nam was being pushed by the Soviets, Chinese, and N. Vietnam. When all they had was themselves and a little bit of SEATO help. Do you think S Nam could have stood up against all that? The point comes down to this: The United States assured South Vietnam that they will get involved if they saw the imminent capture of South Vietnam. But when it came down to it politics FORCED THE US TO NOT HONOR THAT PLEDGE

Quote[/b] ]Just the fact that majority of people now do not support Iraq war is proof that we are not happy with what this administration is doing.

The majority of the people don't like the admin, but do they want to see us "cut and run" like little panzies? No. They all know what a laughing stock we would be if that happened, not to mention the terrorists rolling into New York again.

Quote[/b] ]Should I ban people here because of the chance that they will be banned?

this isn't about moderation here, its about thousands even millions of lives that if a nuke were to fly no one could stop it.

Quote[/b] ]His works during his time actually managed to put our economy on safer route.

The economy, maybe. The American survivability, no. He could have done more than just launching cruise missiles.

Quote[/b] ]Conservatives complained against it, and now you are telling that he should have done more even though it was conservatives who were stopping him.

you don't wake up in the morning as a president and ask yourself "how can I be more lovable today?" It's not part of his job to make himself look good its in his job to make sure the American Military can carry out tasks to protect the US.

Quote[/b] ]Hiroshima is proof that we indeed used NBC weapon. We can do it, but we just don't do it after using it once. US didn't purge millions to stay in power, but did put that dictator there or at least help the dictator. I wonder if there were outcry from Republicans when Saddam used gas on Iranians.

After the US dropped leaflets to warn the civilians to get out. If you see a murderer and a rapists fighting and you know it should stop who are you going to help to stop the fight? You don't like either one but you also want to see them both disappear.

Quote[/b] ]According to Rumsfeld and The Bush administration 3 years ago, yes

"Major Combat Operations against the Iraqi Regime"

now it's: "Operations against Saddam loyalists and terrorists"

Quote[/b] ]well no not really becuase US troops are soldiers of the state and are paid, trained and ordered around by the federal goverment.

so that makes them US property de Jure, But if a parent told their child to go clean their room and the kid doesn't; does it make the dirty room the parent's fault? The kid could still ignore orders.

Quote[/b] ]It was TBA's fault.

TBA's and no others.

They lied and lied and lied again to bring us to this stupid wasteful, pointless war.

Walker, have you ever seen this, this, this, and this. Where in a UN Report they say Iraq is doing something fishy.

All of the world knew Iraq wasn't doing what it was supposed to do. They just didn't want to speak up, and that's what the US and UK did.

Now about his US isn't the only superpower, this has been brought up over and over again... let me review. The EU is a confederation not a single nation. it has many many factions that can easily spark civil tensions. India, not a real power, it has big gaps between lower and higher classes. China, it can only grow for so long before separatist movements succeed.