USA Politics Thread - *No gun debate*

[theavonlady 2]

If I ran an understaffed organization, I would be very grateful for any free help and publicity being offered me.

but untrained amatuears can do more harm than good. although they griped about underfunding(like rest of the federal gov't agencies), your article shows how Bush and the agency are not happy with vigilantes.

What documented harm have they done so far? So far, they've only assisted.

Also, are they or are they not in their legal right to do what they're doing?

And finally, these volunteers would rather be back and home and at work. As the WP article ends off: They called for supplementing border patrol agents with military or National Guard troops. They themselves want the government to take on this expansive role.

This is their form of protest that the government isn't doing its job. The feds don't like it? Good! Maybe the protests will finally get them to move.

[EiZei 0]

And yet at the same time people are bitching about "big goverment" and "tax n' spend".. sigh.

Hell, maybe they could reduce the amount of wars fought and use the money to build a gigantic wall around the US, that will surely keep the brown skinned devils away.

[miles teg 1]

Hey if it works for Israel, it'll work for America!

At least thats better then shooting illegal immigrants. (One idea proposed by some in the militia movements).

As for our National Guard...in case Avon Lady didn't notice most of them are now in Iraq.

Chris G.

aka-Miles Teg<GD>

[Akira 0]

I find all you Yankees and foreigners (usually the same thing) talking about immigration and illegal aliens laughable.

You people don't worry your pretty little heads about it. Let we who are affected by it deal with it.

[theavonlady 2]

Hey if it works for Israel, it'll work for America!

Yip!

[miles teg 1]

Those are different types of extremists.   I was speaking of militant anti-abortion groups.

Could it be that putting the focus on non-violent leftist extremists is politically correct these days and that the FBI sides with Bush and doesn't want to hurt his voter base of support?  

But I guess thats all fine with you and I guess you believe the FBI is doing the right thing making these radical leftist groups a top priority.  

As I said before, the proof of why this is so screwed up will be when the next major terrorist attack occurs in this country.

Then watch all the crazy finger pointing begin and everyone whining about why the FBI and Homeland Security didn't catch these terrorists.

As things are going, its only a matter of time.

The blind leading the blind.

Chris G.

aka-Miles Teg<GD>

"Christian Identity" is talked about in that report... better link, scroll down some. Again, this is the only known public report on this subject.

http://www.religioustolerance.org/cr_ident.htm

Quote[/b] ]Also training costs $$$.  

Everybody know if they seek they shall recieve.

Edit: Interesting...

Quote[/b] ]These terrorist acts appear to be planned and executed by individual Christian Identity followers, and not by Identity churches or the movement itself. Because of the freedom of speech and religion guaranteed in the 1st Amendment of the Constitution, the FBI is prohibited from general monitoring and infiltrating of Christian Identity and similar groups.

That is bullshit about the FBI not being allowed to monitor Churches because it was individuals and not the churches who were carrying out terrorist attacks. Thats nuts. The FBI routinely monitors mosques all the time. During the 80's they also infiltrated and disrupted left wing groups campaigning against US policy in Central America.

If that report is true, then Muslim groups should be suing the FBI for violating their rights.

Like I said...double standards... it shows what the FBI mindset and political ideology is. Leftwing groups and Muslims are treated a lot differently then the radical right.

Chris G.

aka-Miles Teg<GD>

[ralphwiggum 6]

If I ran an understaffed organization, I would be very grateful for any free help and publicity being offered me.

but untrained amatuears can do more harm than good. although they griped about underfunding(like rest of the federal gov't agencies), your article shows how Bush and the agency are not happy with vigilantes.

What documented harm have they done so far? So far, they've only assisted.

Also, are they or are they not in their legal right to do what they're doing?

And finally, these volunteers would rather be back and home and at work. As the WP article ends off: They called for supplementing border patrol agents with military or National Guard troops. They themselves want the government to take on this expansive role.

This is their form of protest that the government isn't doing its job. The feds don't like it? Good! Maybe the protests will finally get them to move.

assisted in something that doesn't need so much of their help. it is like saying 'let's help those low income people who make only 30,000 dollars per year' those ppl are not starving to death, but is the ones who are giving are just a showoffs.

those volunteers showed that the border patrol is doing just fine. regardless of how the whole thing was constructed, it showed that the Minuteman project was a big self-exaggerated action. if they are truly patriotic, why not move there and be there 24/7? Ariznoa deserts are not that expansive.

[ran 0]

If I ran an understaffed organization, I would be very grateful for any free help and publicity being offered me.

It's better to be in small numbers and be relevent than to be surrounded by scores of idiots messing around in an empty shell.

That's one of the things I've been taught.

[Akira 0]

Also, are they or are they not in their legal right to do what they're doing?

Actually what they are doing can be construed as interference with laaw enforcement, definitly not legal.

Quote[/b] ]If I ran an understaffed organization, I would be very grateful for any free help and publicity being offered me.

No. No you wouldn't. The last thing you would want is a bunch of local yokels with guns running around.

[theavonlady 2]

Also, are they or are they not in their legal right to do what they're doing?

Actually what they are doing can be construed as interference with laaw enforcement, definitly not legal.

I suggest you go to their site and read their procedures. They're not interefering at all - other than making law enforcement workers do work they otherwise would have missed out on.

Now, that's a bummer!

Quote[/b] ]

Quote[/b] ]If I ran an understaffed organization, I would be very grateful for any free help and publicity being offered me.

No. No you wouldn't. The last thing you would want is a bunch of local yokels with guns running around.

Well, we disagree. They're not local yokels and they don't all carry guns. They go through training. They don't interfere with border patrol workers. They come from all walks of life, including some of those "brown skinned" jalapeno eating folks that EiZei and Miles Teg say this whole thing is against.

[Akira 0]

Regardless of procedures, anytime you have largely untrained (and possibly armed) civilians in close proximity with A)Criminal elements, and B)law enforcement personnel, you are not going to have a good situtation.

[billybob2002 0]

Quote[/b] ]and those wholes were supposed to be plugged by the minutman project. and that whole turned out to be about 300-400 people. i wonder how many the feds caught. around same area.

They wanted to bring national attention to the border and not be hole pluggers. Mission accomplished? Anyway, I find it troubling that Miles and EiZei would bring up the race card on this issue. Talk about a downer..

[miles teg 1]

Quote[/b] ]and those wholes were supposed to be plugged by the minutman project. and that whole turned out to be about 300-400 people. i wonder how many the feds caught. around same area.

They wanted to bring national attention to the border and not be hole pluggers. Mission accomplished? Anyway, I find it troubling that Miles and EiZei would bring up the race card on this issue. Talk about a downer..

THE RACE CARD!   Yeah man just call me Mr. Johnny Cochran.

I don't think I actually mentioned race except on another thread, but now that you bring it up, yes I have no doubt in my mind that they are doing ALOT of racial profiling when it comes to investigating terrorists.  I actually experienced this myself on the border.  Myself and all my hispanic friends go grilled going through the border and at border patrol checkpoints, however my white friends including one Norwegian friend, passed with no problems through the Mexican border in the group that we were all with even though he had some problems with his documents that they barely glanced at.

They freaked out a bit when I told them I was born in Iran.

lol!  

If my Norwegian friend had been a Muslim convert and a militant extremist, he probably would have still had no problems getting into this country as they generally don't track white American or white European Muslims nearly as closely they track Muslims of Middle Eastern or African descent.  White people just aren't expected to become Muslims, and yet I've met quite a few white Muslim converts.  I found that fundamentalist brands of Islam tend to attract some fundamentalist Christians who find Islam to embody the moral values and ancient Christian traditions that have died out in the modern world.

At any rate, racial profiling is most definitely a HUGE part of the war on terror.  

Oh and Avon Lady... there are hispanic or black Minute Men? If so PLEASE SHOW ME EVIDENCE OF THIS because I have yet to see a SINGLE picture of a minuteman member who was "brown skinned" unless they were some tanned white dude.  If there is one, I can guarantee you that the majority of Mexican American citizens of this country DO NOT support the Minutemen in any way or form.   I live in the heart of Tejano culture in Texas and I have heard nothing but disgust voiced against the Minutemen by the hispanic community here.   If they came here to South Texas they would probably need the border patrol to guard them to prevent angry Hispanic Americans from attacking them as in their minds the minutemen represent racists who stir the fear of a "brown invasion" along with hatred of hispanics in white America.  But these minutemen idiots don't realise that its too late...the invasion has already taken place... even if all immigration from Latin America stopped, hispanic Americans would still outpace other ethnic groups in the population.  Right now hispanics are on track to soon become the majority in the United States.  I suggest that the minutemen get accustomed to being called a miniority.

Chris G.

aka-Miles Teg<GD>

[billybob2002 0]

Quote[/b] ]THE RACE CARD!   Yeah man just call me Mr. Johnny Cochran.

Was talking about illegal immigration part....

Quote[/b] ]I suggest that the minutemen get accustomed to being called a miniority.

And you know what will happened next... The crazy white people would be coming out of the wood works.

Quote[/b] ]Oh and Avon Lady... there are hispanic or black Minute Men?

OH MY GOD, it's a Blackie!!! Must be one of those damn Uncle Toms!!! Hey, do you know the breakdown of Prop 187 in Calif?

[ralphwiggum 6]

Quote[/b] ]Oh and Avon Lady... there are hispanic or black Minute Men?

OH MY GOD, it's a Blackie!!! Must be one of those damn Uncle Toms!!! Hey, do you know the breakdown of Prop 187 in Calif?

http://www.minutemanproject.com/photo_images/pic_2005apr23_1064.jpg

of course. state can't do federal work, duh.

http://www.salon.com/news/feature/1999/07/30/immigration/

[billybob2002 0]

Quote[/b] ]Oh and Avon Lady... there are hispanic or black Minute Men?

OH MY GOD, it's a Blackie!!! Must be one of those damn Uncle Toms!!! Hey, do you know the breakdown of Prop 187 in Calif?

http://www.minutemanproject.com/photo_images/pic_2005apr23_1064.jpg

of course. state can't do federal work, duh.

http://www.salon.com/news/feature/1999/07/30/immigration/

Voter breakdown? Duh.

Quote[/b] ]Regardless of procedures, anytime you have largely untrained (and possibly armed) civilians in close proximity with A)Criminal elements, and B)law enforcement personnel, you are not going to have a good situtation.

What about the Guardian Angels? Should they not exist then because patrol on the buses and street of the dangerous parts of the inner city.

[SpongeBob 0]

May 4, 1970 - May 4, 2005

35 year anniversary of the liberation of Kent State by the Ohio National Guard.

[billybob2002 0]

Quote[/b] ]May 4, 1970 - May 4, 2005

35 year anniversary of the liberation of Kent State by the Ohio National Guard.

Untrained NG mixed with stupid college kids (good ahead and provoke the NG) is not a good mix. When I mean provoke it doesn't give justification for the shooting.

[Akira 0]

Nothing more dangerous than hippie protestors right, BB? Good thing the FBI is crackin' down on em...

[Balschoiw 0]

Quote[/b] ]"You know, you see these bums, you know, blowin' up the campuses. Listen, the boys that are on the college campuses today are the luckiest people in the world, going to the greatest universities, and here they are, burnin' up the books, I mean, stormin' around about this issue, I mean, you name it —- get rid of the war, there'll be another one.", Richard Nixon, New York Times, May 2, 1970

Is it true that noone got punished for the killings ?

FBI report on Kent massacre

[billybob2002 0]

Quote[/b] ]Nothing more dangerous than hippie protestors right, BB? Good thing the FBI is crackin' down on em...

BAH BAH BAH... Again, I'm not saying it was justify or not. Anyway, care to refesh me on why the NG was called up.

Quote[/b] ]

Is it true that noone got punished for the killings ?

http://dept.kent.edu/sociology/lewis/lewihen.htm

Quote[/b] ]In a 1974 federal criminal trial, District Judge Frank Battisti dismissed the case against eight Guardsmen indicted by a federal grand jury, ruling at mid-trial that the government's case against the Guardsmen was so weak that the defense did not have to present its case. In the much longer and more complex federal civil trial of 1975, a jury voted 9-3 that none of the Guardsmen were legally responsible for the shootings. This decision was appealed, however, and the Sixth Circuit Court of Appeals ruled that a new trial had to be held because of the improper handling of a threat to a jury member.

[Akira 0]

Ahhh. Thats my Austin!

Quote[/b] ]Arrest made at Coulter speech

Student arrested, charged with disorderly conduct after offensive question

Incessant heckling and shouting culminated in an arrest Tuesday night during a speech by Ann Coulter, an extreme right-wing pundit, at the Lyndon Baines Johnson Library and Museum.

Shouts became so pervasive during the question-and-answer session that Coulter informed the organizers she would no longer take questions if the hecklers were not silenced. For a time, the shouts were considerably lessened, until the issue of gay marriage was broached.

Coulter said she supported the definition of marriage as between a man and a woman on the basis that a good woman civilizes and inspires a man to strive for something better, leading to a question that was met with a stunned silence.

"You say that you believe in the sanctity of marriage," said Ajai Raj, an English sophomore. "How do you feel about marriages where the man does nothing but fuck his wife up the ass?"

UT Police officers approached Raj to arrest him, resulting in a mass exodus of protesters chanting, "Let him go."

"The person had been disruptive the entire event," said Matt Hardigree, former Student Events Center president. "He took the opportunity to say something lewd and offensive and then made masturbatory gestures as he exited."

Hardigree said that Cheryl Wood from the Office of the Dean of Students spoke with some of the protestors before the event, and assorted members of the Distinguished Speakers Committee asked them to sit in the back if they had signs and to leave quietly if they wanted to leave.

According to Jeffrey Stockerwell, a friend of Raj, officers violently seized Raj and illegally searched him after his question.

Police have charged Raj with disorderly conduct, a Class C misdemeanor.

Representatives of the Austin People's Legal Collective were taking statements from everyone at the scene, in case it should be taken to court.

Raj worked at the Texan on a volunteer basis for a brief time in March.

Before the speech began, the International Socialist Organization protested outside of the library, with about 12 people holding up signs with slogans such as "Racist, sexist, anti-gay, right-wing bigot go away" and "Stop the new McCarthyism."

The booing began early into Coulter's speech, when she issued a joke to pro-choice advocates.

"I wonder why those 'I Heart Partial-Birth Abortion' T-shirts aren't selling better," she said, followed by a combination of cheers and jeers.

Coulter went on to decry the conservative media bias she said liberals complain of, and she challenged the undemocratic actions of liberals with respect to Iraq and to the judiciary.

"They're always trying to act like they're oppressed," she said. "So let's do it. Let's oppress them."

One student asked Coulter why universities and institutions place microphones in front of Coulter when she advocates terrorism against liberals, prompting Coulter to mention the strength of her book sales. Coulter has had four New York Times best sellers.

The $30,000 event was co-sponsored by the Texas Union Student Events Center and Student Endowed Centennial Lectureship Committee.

I'm surprised she came to Austin, especially UT. There is a reason why Austin was the sole blue district in Central to North Texas.

EDIT:

The Daily Texan (UT Paper)

It's a little slow, because Drudge has it linked.

[ralphwiggum 6]

Quote[/b] ]Oh and Avon Lady... there are hispanic or black Minute Men?

OH MY GOD, it's a Blackie!!! Must be one of those damn Uncle Toms!!! Hey, do you know the breakdown of Prop 187 in Calif?

http://www.minutemanproject.com/photo_images/pic_2005apr23_1064.jpg

of course. state can't do federal work, duh.

http://www.salon.com/news/feature/1999/07/30/immigration/

Voter breakdown? Duh.

read the article. the State decided not to appeal the decision.

@Akira

isn't it funny that she has no problem bitching about liberals but when she gets similar treatment she is whining?

Quote[/b] ]Coulter said she supported the definition of marriage as between a man and a woman on the basis that a good woman civilizes and inspires a man to strive for something better,

problem is a bad woman does not civilize a man. then the suport for marriage goes down the drain. nice going Coulter.

[Balschoiw 0]

According to her brainfart ideology she´d better rush home into her kitchen and prepare supper...

I can´t believe that nobrainers like her even get a voice in the US and she wrote what ? Bestsellers ? Hehe, how stupid do the readers have to be ? I´m sorry....she proposes terrorism against liberals. Better take her to the lunatic asylum and equip her with a hannibal lecter mouthpiece...

I´m sorry but what is all that gay fuzz about ? Do you think gay people do CHOOSE that they are gay ? It´s no illness, it´s not new it´s a part of our daily life ! Damnit, even Rock Hudson was gay !

Why should they not get married if they want to.

It´s all that fanatic defending of bull that makes the US so funny sometimes. How about fighting the worldwide biggest porn - industry if she got so morally upset with gay couples...

Stupid woman.

[billybob2002 0]

Quote[/b] ]read the article. the State decided not to appeal the decision.

I'm talking about what % voted for it or against it down racial lines.

Quote[/b] ]problem is a bad woman does not civilize a man. then the suport for marriage goes down the drain. nice going Coulter.

Ann is just another talking head, and she needs to eat something fast. Anyway, all sides have those types of people.

Quote[/b] ]Why should they not get married if they want to.

Then no more gay pride parades! Those parades just are, how can I say it in a pc way, very weird to say the least.

Tomorrow should be a interesting day because the get out Iraq now! and no military recruiters on campus! people are having a protest at noon. Also, those protest warriors have been putting up those flyers around campus. I'm remember the last time that those anti-iraq war protesters were basically yelling crap in to a mic on the campus lawn. Nobody seemed to cared about what they were saying and just kept on walking to class. Even one guy yelled "shut the fuck" because they were really testing people by being really loud on the mic. They (protesters) were rude to say the least.

Lets see if this changes!