USA Politics Thread - *No gun debate*

[ralphwiggum 6]

just done watching it and i gotta say i should have spent my time doing something more productive like plotting my plan to ambush billybob.

[Akira 0]

Quote[/b] ]You guys are so predictable...

And sadly so is Bush...

[billybob2002 0]

just done watching it and i gotta say i should have spent my time doing something more productive like plotting my plan to ambush billybob.

Bring it on!

[ralphwiggum 6]

just done watching it and i gotta say i should have spent my time doing something more productive like plotting my plan to ambush billybob.

Bring it on!  

yeah like GWB said?

here's transcript of the speech, courtesy of CNN

http://www.cnn.com/2005/ALLPOLITICS/02/02/sotu.transcript/

[shinRaiden 0]

Listening to the callers on CSPAN afterwards, I was reminded of the growing situation of unnegotiatable division. Far too many of the issues are such that there exists no common ground:

<ul>

[*]Either marriage is a moral obligation ordained of God, or it is passing fad of business-like partnerships of convienence.

[*]Either the citizen is ultimately responsible for the individual, or the state.

[*]Either freed mankind has an obligation to extend life and liberty to those without, or relegate freedom to the libraries of antiquities or theoretical studies.

[*]Either life is designed and created by God with the mandate for self and societal betterment, or is a passing aberrition in a nihilistic chaos.

You have the pinko commies calling the right-wing fascists Imperialist swine intent on enslaving the world, and in return are themselves branded as having no qualms about buying and selling those very same slaves for personal self-gratification.

Of course Bush is predictable - to an extent - that's why he got elected. Those of us that prefer Cowboy diplomacy deliberately and conciously understood that, and that's why we voted for him.

Similarly, Sen. Reid and Rep. Pelosi are equally predictable in their fear-mongering. They were voted in by their constituents that support their predictable retoric.

What we are on the edge of is closure of dialogue not because of the resolution of common issues, but the mutually exclusive and unnegotiatable positions on those issues. The left is as fundamentalist as the right, and neither side can turn away without selling their souls, although each accuses the other of already having done so.

While I may disagree occasionally with minor or trivial details of President Bush's platforms, I voted for him because I knew where he stands, and I knew where Sen. Kerry stands, and I made a concious decision that I could not in good faith support Kerry, but I could support Bush, and I felt that was the right direction. I have friends that felt and voted exactly opposite, in identially the same process.

I also have a friend that has a son serving in Iraq. He came home on leave around Christmas, and his mother told how she was so sick and worried about him above everything else, she voted for Kerry, in the hopes that Kerry instead would pullout immediately. He paused, shook his head in disappointment over her lack of concern for the other reasons, and said "well, I guess thats the mother in you speaking." That's what the mom told me. She understood where Kerry stood, and made a competent, informed decision when she cast her ballot.

Normally I try to be maniacally optimistic, but when I'm reminded of the sobering chasm that exists between the right and the left on these issues, it it clear that the so-called center either is in the middle of the right, or in the middle of the left, but not in between the two. How do propose to sit on the fence if it is concertina razor wire?

As for Iraq and the WMD broohahah, I always thought it was a weak excuse to try to pan it off as a WMD hunt under stated presumed intelligence. If you'd paid attention from day one you would have known that the primary purpose was indeed to lynch Saddam, prop up a democracy of some kind, split the ME down the middle, and play both sides against the middle. That's the kind of cowboy diplomacy I understood from day one, and that's what I and the majority of voters voted for in the 2004 elections.

If Sen. Reid is so concerned about debt, he should follow an ESPN sportscaster's advice and push to have Las Vegas host the Super Bowl every third year. He should also pressure Comdex to rethink the error of strangleing the greatest IT circus ever to re-energize the IT industry.

Rep. Pelosi needs to look in her own backyard when Mexican human smugglers can manipulate the nation's law enforcement system. Rep. Pelosi also needs to look at addressing crediblely the energy system. For too many years California has been leeching off Washington hydro power rather than fix their own anal-retentive energy euthanasia policies. Well guess what, we're probably not going to have enough water in the dams this year for us due to the Portland anarchists stealing our snow again this year, so that means blackouts for you SoCal, unless Sen. Reid can spare you anymore watts.

-edit-

Transcript of the speech, courtesy a network that still has ratings, and hasn't had journalists embeded with Saddam Hussien: Fox News

[ralphwiggum 6]

As for Iraq and the WMD broohahah, I always thought it was a weak excuse to try to pan it off as a WMD hunt under stated presumed intelligence. If you'd paid attention from day one you would have known that the primary purpose was indeed to lynch Saddam, prop up a democracy of some kind, split the ME down the middle, and play both sides against the middle. That's the kind of cowboy diplomacy I understood from day one, and that's what I and the majority of voters voted for in the 2004 elections.

obviously revisionist history is already in works. when Avon quoted the House of Representatives's resolution regarding Iraq war, It had a lot of phrase "Weapons of mass destruction".(page 36 of this thread)

the evidence that Powell brought up was about WMD, not about human rights in Iraq. it was more of a side dish. now that the WMD is not going to be found, Bush supporters are ignoring their own argument of a few years ago and is trying to brush up that 'humanitarian' part.

Quote[/b] ]If Sen. Reid is so concerned about debt, he should follow an ESPN sportscaster's advice and push to have Las Vegas host the Super Bowl every third year. He should also pressure Comdex to rethink the error of strangleing the greatest IT circus ever to re-energize the IT industry.

you mean at the City of Sin? seems nice to put a national game there where kids watch with their parents. funny how LV comes up for a lot of things. it certainly attracts money. for second year, SHOT SHOW(for those who don't know, it's firearm industry convention) was held in LV and will be held in LV for one more year then move to Florida. last time they held it in FL i heard it wasn't as good as LV. is it me or is it that GOP fail to point out Gomorah is right there?

Comdex may give idea of IT industry but it does not control it. nice reasoning.

Quote[/b] ]

Rep. Pelosi needs to look in her own backyard when Mexican human smugglers can manipulate the nation's law enforcement system.

eh? example? like local police not kicking out illegal immigrants? local police do not have resource to put additional force in to federal business.

Quote[/b] ]Rep. Pelosi also needs to look at addressing crediblely the energy system. For too many years California has been leeching off Washington hydro power rather than fix their own anal-retentive energy euthanasia policies. Well guess what, we're probably not going to have enough water in the dams this year for us due to the Portland anarchists stealing our snow again this year, so that means blackouts for you SoCal, unless Sen. Reid can spare you anymore watts.

nice to know that some people think that's only place CA gets water from. we do have other generators than water if you haven't noticed. on top of that i fail to see any mention of energy companies and their manipulation that lead to the crisis. if you can't remember, turns out those energy manufactures had too many 'maintenance' stops. it wasn't lack of water in Washington state, but of the company's manipulation.

Quote[/b] ]

Transcript of the speech, courtesy a network that still has ratings, and hasn't had journalists embeded with Saddam Hussien: Fox News

just shows that those who view Faux news as the unbiased source tend to be more rhetoric slingers.

[blackdog~ 0]

About illegal immigrants, we don't kick a lot of the illegals out... then they have kids, and then we have to deal with the kids with the illegal parents, which costs us tax $$.

black "mucho grande el gato in mi el pantolonies" dog

[ralphwiggum 6]

About illegal immigrants, we don't kick a lot of the illegals out... then they have kids, and then we have to deal with the kids with the illegal parents, which costs us tax $$.

yeah just like that Marine that died in combat.

[shinRaiden 0]

Quote[/b] ]obviously revisionist history is already in works. when Avon quoted the House of Representatives's resolution regarding Iraq war, It had a lot of phrase "Weapons of mass destruction".

the evidence that Powell brought up was about WMD, not about human rights in Iraq. it was more of a side dish. now that the WMD is not going to be found, Bush supporters are ignoring their own argument of a few years ago and is trying to brush up that 'humanitarian' part.

So it did, but that was only the trigger. Why was the trigger an issue? Because of the lack of democracy. There's a whole lot of people that loudly defend their own freedom on both sides, but suddenly get real squeamish about extending and protecting those same freedoms to others. Bush knew that and understood that, so that's why he didn't bother spelling that out to an unwilling audience in the UN - where Mummar Qaddafi and Saddam Hussein chair the human rights councils - or in congress that hasn't learned how to outsource votes yet.

Quote[/b] ]you mean at the City of Sin? seems nice to put a national game there where kids watch with their parents. funny how LV comes up for a lot of things. it certainly attracts money. for second year, SHOT SHOW(for those who don't know, it's firearm industry convention) was held in LV and will be held in LV for one more year then move to Florida. last time they held it in FL i heard it wasn't as good as LV. is it me or is it that GOP fail to point out Gomorah is right there?

Aren't we supposed to have MoveOn'd past the Jackson family? Since people are willing to validate the principles of socialism that the citizenry are collectively and individually too stupid to take care of themselves, why not setup the mother of all parties and bleed them dry financially to cover the costs of their therapy?

ESPN Columnist Bill Simmons

Quote[/b] ]

Here's what bothers me: This should be a can't-miss week. Nobody should ever complain. People should be happy. People should be saying to themselves, "I will never forget coming here." For instance, my first Super Bowl was the Pats-Rams in New Orleans, one of the greatest weeks of my life. Sure, I was almost lynched. But the food was unbelievable. It was easy to get around. Every vice was taken care of -- gambling, strippers, boozing, you name it -- and you could go all night if you wanted. Bourbon Street may have been disgusting, but it was one of the liveliest places I can ever remember. For that entire week, there was an energy in that city that was almost indescribable. I will never forget being there. And neither will anyone else.

Well ... shouldn't that be the case EVERY year? Why are we messing around with the Super Bowl? I remember thinking (and even writing) that this was a cute idea, that giving such a giant event to such an unassuming city had some "Hickory High winning the Indiana state title" parallels. But there's too much money at stake. Too many people care about this week, and too many people have spent an inordinate amount of time and money to get down here. This isn't the time to be saying, "Hey, let's give the Super Bowl in Jacksonville and hope it works out."

One more scenario for you, and then I'm done ...

Imagine that Paul Tagliabue announced in March, "We decided to give the Super Bowl to Las Vegas. We're building a 70,000-seat domed stadium next to the Thomas Mack Center. Every other year, we're having the Super Bowl there. That alternate year will be rotated between New Orleans, Miami and San Diego, and only those three cities, because we learned the hard way that those are the only cities that can host the Super Bowl. And we're doing this for two reasons. First, we want to make sure that everyone has a good time. And second, we're going to make a ridiculous amount of money. I mean, have you seen the amount of people that descend on Vegas for March Madness? We're going to triple it. People will be fighting each other for tickets. It's going to be insane. And we're going to split the profits with Vegas and everyone will live happily ever after."

Quote[/b] ]

Comdex may give idea of IT industry but it does not control it. nice reasoning.

I never said COMDEX controlled IT, anymore than E3 controls gaming. What they are - or in the the case of COMDEX were - is a huge kick in the pants for the industry. Companies came out with new toys to pimp, people came to get all enthusiastic about geekdom, and folks went back to work ready to take on the world. Now the managers have subverted COMDEX, and the love is lost.

Quote[/b] ]eh? example? like local police not kicking out illegal immigrants? local police do not have resource to put additional force in to federal business.

like the guy recently that called up the FBI and said that a bunch of people were going to nuke boston, turns out that he was just trying to pwn another illegal alien smuggler, but use the FBI to do his dirty work. Any idea how much that investigation and panic cost? Any idea how many Border Patrol agent's salary could have been covered if the policy was to seriously stop them at the border, instead of declaring sanctuary zones?

Quote[/b] ]nice to know that some people think that's only place CA gets water from. we do have other generators than water if you haven't noticed. on top of that i fail to see any mention of energy companies and their manipulation that lead to the crisis. if you can't remember, turns out those energy manufactures had too many 'maintenance' stops. it wasn't lack of water in Washington state, but of the company's manipulation.

Your dams traditionally run dry earlier than ours do, so the grid borrows power from us to keep your lights on. The energy company rackets were setup by mismanaged deregulation and prosecuted by both parties when they blew up. Put a windmill on Pelosi's and Boxer's mouths and you'll keep Cupertino in business.

Quote[/b] ]just shows that those who view Faux news as the unbiased source tend to be more rhetoric slingers.

I didn't say Fox was unbiased, I just happen to prefer their bias, and based on their ratings compared to CNN, so do a lot of other people.

[ralphwiggum 6]

So it did, but that was only the trigger. Why was the trigger an issue? Because of the lack of democracy. There's a whole lot of people that loudly defend their own freedom on both sides, but suddenly get real squeamish about extending and protecting those same freedoms to others. Bush knew that and understood that, so that's why he didn't bother spelling that out to an unwilling audience in the UN - where Mummar Qaddafi and Saddam Hussein chair the human rights councils - or in congress that hasn't learned how to outsource votes yet.

so it is ok for a prosecutor to prosecute a citizen with a misguided tip and hope than he can uncover some dirt unrelated to charges? guess that is ok with GOP and TBA

When Clinton engaged in world politics, GOP was whining that we shouldn't engage in world politics. now that they can go out and destroy a nation, they seem to differ and offer 'democracy' as an excuse. If Aidid's capture was to be a signal of democratic Somalia, maybe GOP need to reconsider criticizing Clinton for Black Hawk Down.

There seems to be some sort of fascination among TBA supporters that Bush was a smart person and thus disguised intentions. boohoo. if he was able to see such problem, why is it that he flip flopped on status of iraq for last two years?

Quote[/b] ]

Quote[/b] ]you mean at the City of Sin? seems nice to put a national game there where kids watch with their parents. funny how LV comes up for a lot of things. it certainly attracts money. for second year, SHOT SHOW(for those who don't know, it's firearm industry convention) was held in LV and will be held in LV for one more year then move to Florida. last time they held it in FL i heard it wasn't as good as LV. is it me or is it that GOP fail to point out Gomorah is right there?

Aren't we supposed to have MoveOn'd past the Jackson family? Since people are willing to validate the principles of socialism that the citizenry are collectively and individually too stupid to take care of themselves, why not setup the mother of all parties and bleed them dry financially to cover the costs of their therapy?

ooohhh...redirection of argument...

family value my ass. we have a president whose daughter was blatantly going for underage drinking and is now teaching elementary kids. Why is it so hard to follow what they preach?

Quote[/b] ]I never said COMDEX controlled IT, anymore than E3 controls gaming. What they are - or in the the case of COMDEX were - is  a huge kick in the pants for the industry. Companies came out with new toys to pimp, people came to get all enthusiastic about geekdom, and folks went back to work ready to take on the world. Now the managers have subverted COMDEX, and the love is lost.

here's what you said

Quote[/b] ]He(Sen Reid) should also pressure Comdex to rethink the error of strangleing the greatest IT circus ever to re-energize the IT industry.

reeenergize the COMDEX to re-energize IT sector? the argument assumes that re-energizing COMDEX will lead to re-energizing of IT sector. it's the market that energizes industry. it's the economy.

Quote[/b] ]like the guy recently that called up the FBI and said that a bunch of people were going to nuke boston, turns out that he was just trying to pwn another illegal alien smuggler, but use the FBI to do his dirty work. Any idea how much that investigation and panic cost? Any idea how many Border Patrol agent's salary could have been covered if the policy was to seriously stop them at the border, instead of declaring sanctuary zones?

Blame the guy who wanted them out. just how anti-immigration and desperate do you have to be to feed wrong info and misuse federal resource?

Quote[/b] ]Your dams traditionally run dry earlier than ours do, so the grid borrows power from us to keep your lights on. The energy company rackets were setup by mismanaged deregulation and prosecuted by both parties when they blew up. Put a windmill on Pelosi's and Boxer's mouths and you'll keep Cupertino in business.

and just how many rolling blackouts happened traditionally? just the infrequent occurence of rolling blackouts show that it was an odd event, not a seasonaly one.

and here's another fact for you. deregulation was proposed and supported by GOP! and was signed by non other than great Republican Governor of California, Pete Wilson.

Quote[/b] ]I didn't say Fox was unbiased, I just happen to prefer their bias, and based on their ratings compared to CNN, so do a lot of other people.

so higher ratings mean they are better? Survivor series has been ratings hog for sometime, so does that mean it's better than, say, Fear Factor (shudders at the comparison)

or American Idol......  

so let this be the proof that you prefer right leaning bias.

edit: forgot to mention:

you said FOX does not have "reporters embedded with Saddam Hussein". an obvious comment that implies other networks do so.

[ralphwiggum 6]

.

http://www.nbc4.tv/politics/4155808/detail.html

Quote[/b] ]

SAN DIEGO -- At a panel discussion in San Diego Tuesday, a top Marine general tells an audience that, among other things, it is "fun to shoot some people."

The comment, made by Lt. Gen. James Mattis, came in reference to fighting insurgents in Iraq. He went on to say, "Actually, its a lot of fun to fight. You know, it's a hell of a hoot. I like brawling."

"You go into Afghanistan, you got guys who slap women around for 5 years because they didn't wear a veil," Mattis continued. "You know, guys like that ain't got no manhood left anyway. So it's a hell of a lot of fun to shoot them."

About 200 people gathered for the discussion, held at the San Diego Convention Center. While many military members laughed at the comments, a military expert interviewed by NBC 7/39 in San Diego called the comments "flippant."

"I was a little surprised," said Retired Vice Adm. Edward H. Martin. "I don't think any of us who have ever fought in wars liked to kill anybody."

Mattis also discussed operational tactics of the war, calling on military members not to underestimate the capacity of terrorists.

Mattis leads Camp Pendleton's 1st Marine Division in Iraq. He is in charge of the Marine Corps combat development and is based in Quantico, Va.

[theavonlady 2]

edit: forgot to mention:

you said FOX does not have "reporters embedded with Saddam Hussein". an obvious comment that implies other networks do so.

From MEMRI's current news tickertape:

Quote[/b] ]A VIDEOTAPE FOUND IN A STACK OF SADDAM HUSSEIN’S OLD DOCUMENTS SHOWS HIS SON, UDAY HUSSEIN, MEETING WITH MUHAMMAD JASSEM AL-ALI, FORMER MANAGER OF AL-JAZEERA, WHO TELLS UDAY ‘AL-JAZEERA IS YOUR CHANNEL.’ (1/24/2005, IRNA, IRAN)

[Supah 0]

I didn't say Fox was unbiased, I just happen to prefer their bias, and based on their ratings compared to CNN, so do a lot of other people.

If you take news that you know is biased for fact then you are basing your opinions on lies and untruths. Now you'll say "But CNN is biased too!" ... welll .... no .... CNN aims more toward the international market, in general media choosing sides in politics (For instance, Fox endorsing the republican party and the NYT endorsing the democratic candidate) is just completely not done in europe for instance. If a media outlet would endorse say the Left-centrist PvdA here (The Netherlands) I would very much doubt the truthfullness of any news they report on it and its opposition.

Just because a news outlet doesn't say exactly what you think is going on in the world doesn't mean their lying, it means it might be time to adjust your opinions a bit. I see this with more people who are to the right of the political spectrum, the moment a media outlet doesn't say exactly what they think the media are commie left wing biased stalinists (as a Fox watcher you can add "babymurders" in the case of the netherlands). Europeans in general regard Fox as republican propaganda and its reporters gain a status similar to the more rioty Jerry Springer guests, "Look at the funny monkey-american".

From an european point of view the american electoral system is in dire need of an overhaul. As one pampflet by "Loesje", an organisation that puts out topical pampflets in the netherlands, said "If they [americans] are going to bring democracy everywhere I hope they keep some for themselves".

[Colossus 2]

Whole State of the Union speech (Too long to quote it)

[Akira 0]

Quote[/b] ]So it did, but that was only the trigger. Why was the trigger an issue? Because of the lack of democracy. There's a whole lot of people that loudly defend their own freedom on both sides, but suddenly get real squeamish about extending and protecting those same freedoms to others. Bush knew that and understood that, so that's why he didn't bother spelling that out to an unwilling audience in the UN - where Mummar Qaddafi and Saddam Hussein chair the human rights councils - or in congress that hasn't learned how to outsource votes yet.

Right. That is exactly what was in Bush's mind.

The trigger was closed door energy negotiation, Saddam trying to kill his "daddy," and terrorists slamming into the WTC. It had nothing to do with democracy building. I quote from the State Of The Union last night:

Quote[/b] ]The United States has no right, no desire, and no intention to impose our form of government on anyone else.

What is democracy building if not imposing "our form of government"? And do you really think if Iraq voted for an Islamist state Bush would go along with that? Not imposing our government eh?

Never once during the build up to the war was human rights or humanitarian reasons officially given, and the only time they were mentioned was in passing with the emphasis on the use of WMD's "against his own citizens." How quickly the Bush supporters forget the Powell UN address that was a complete lie. How quickly they forget the buzz word "WMD." How quickly they forget the "45 minute launch" ability. How quickly they forget all the bogus reports and hot intel that said Saddam was gonna make a nukulur bomb any second so he can give it to terrorists to detonate and feast off the burned corpses of your babies. (Right. And Peloisi is fear mongering...)

Nor was "democracy building" mentioned by Bush supporters before the war, since after all, that would be imposing our government. We won't impose our government....as long as its a non-religious fundamentalist (but Christian is ok) government.

Its ridiculous how easy the Bush supporters ignore the fact that they were lied to, that all evidence given to them as a "smoking gun" turned out to be utter fabrications, that there never was an immediate danger to the US at all. Period. But no, you weighed the lies, fabrications, and blood-shed, and decided to vote for a man that has no compunction about democracy building on the tip of a laser guided bomb. That has no problem about leveling a neighborhood to try to kill one man. That has no problem sending the military out completely unequiped for the task ahead. That has no problem killing thousands because he's got a chip on his shoulder and Haliburton at his side. Right. Great choice there.

Quote[/b] ]Any idea how much that investigation and panic cost? Any idea how many Border Patrol agent's salary could have been covered if the policy was to seriously stop them at the border, instead of declaring sanctuary zones?

Really? What do you way up north feel we down here on the border states should do to "seriously" stop them? Shoot them? Because thats the only way you are going to ever seriously stop an illegal immigrant who is determined for a better life. The Border Patrol pick them up and take them back to the other side, only to watch them turn around and try somewhere else. Do you really think those people serve a threat to the United States? Hell no they don't. It's the ones that have the money, and backing to get into the US with far more sophisticated ways then in the back of a tractor trailer or through the N. Mexico desert. And I assure you the Border Patrol is not going to be much help against those.

Quote[/b] ]I didn't say Fox was unbiased, I just happen to prefer their bias, and based on their ratings compared to CNN, so do a lot of other people.

I would guess about 59 million. Luckily the other voting 59 Million decide to get their news from more reputable and not so biased sources. But at least you admit that you prefer the bombastic propoganda of FOX. Is one really brainwashed when they do it willingly?

Quote[/b] ]Transcript of the speech, courtesy a network that still has ratings, and hasn't had journalists embeded with Saddam Hussien: Fox News

Quote[/b] ]A VIDEOTAPE FOUND IN A STACK OF SADDAM HUSSEIN’S OLD DOCUMENTS SHOWS HIS SON, UDAY HUSSEIN, MEETING WITH MUHAMMAD JASSEM AL-ALI, FORMER MANAGER OF AL-JAZEERA, WHO TELLS UDAY ‘AL-JAZEERA IS YOUR CHANNEL.’ (1/24/2005, IRNA, IRAN)

I assure you, he wasn't taking a mis-guided swipe at Al-Jazeera. He came out with that link after the CNN link, an obvious attempt to dismiss CNN as a network cozy with Saddam.

[Akira 0]

Quote[/b] ]US opposes UK's debt relief plan

Mark Tran

Friday February 4, 2005

The US restated its opposition today to Gordon Brown's plan to set up a multi-billion dollar aid facility as finance ministers from the G7 countries gathered in London.

Mr Brown is using the London meeting to drum up support for an international finance facility (IFF) that would double annual aid flows to $100bn (Å53bn) by selling bonds on the world's capital markets.

Britain has secured the backing of the three other European members of the G7 - Germany, France and Italy - but the US has declined to do the same. Prior to the two-day meeting of finance ministers, it bluntly restated its opposition to the idea.

"Not only does the IFF not work for the United States, we don't need the IFF," John Taylor, the US treasury under-secretary, said as he travelled to the meeting, which was to be addressed by Nelson Mandela.

Mr Taylor said Washington was not convinced of the need to revalue the gold reserves of the International Monetary Fund or raise money through IMF gold sales to help fund a write-off of Africa's foreign debts.

The US has raised three key objections to the IFF. The first is that the idea of selling bonds on capital markets to double aid over the next 10 years is a non-starter, because one Congress cannot limit the freedom of action of a future Congress.

The second is that Congress would be unwilling, in any case, to vote for more money and the third is a concern that any financial help might not be widely used.

However, the Treasury appeared unruffled by Mr Taylor's remarks.

"There is nothing new in John Taylor's position, but let's talk to the Americans about what we can do to make it work and to look at alternative proposals. The critical thing is to move quickly to meet the UN millennium development goals [on reducing poverty]. To meet those goals, we need to increase aid flows now," a Treasury official said.

According to the Jubilee Debt Campaign, a lobby group that advocates debt cancellation, poor countries around the world spend more than Å30m every day on debt repayments to rich countries for loans taken in the 1960s and 1970s.

G7 meetings usually focus on issues such as currency volatility and global economic prospects, but Britain, the G7 president, has put debt relief at the top of the agenda this time.

Peter Mandelson, the EU trade commissioner, called on the G8 - the G7 plus Russia - to offer tariff-free access to all their markets to developing countries within a couple of years.

"Trade is the third leg of the development triad. Actions on trade, aid and debt need to complement each other. To that table, the EU can bring a trade policy that recognises the needs of the global poor,"

The prospects of making headway with the US over the IFF this weekend were always slim. With the US treasury secretary, John Snow, unwell, Mr Taylor - attending in his place - does not have the authority to commit the US to any major change in its current position.

China's currency link to the dollar is of more concern to the US, which wants China to allow its currency, the renminbi, to rise and so help make a dent in the US's huge current account deficit.

Mr Taylor said he expected a candid discussion with China on its foreign exchange rate regime, and said it wanted the Asian nation to "move as quickly as possible to a flexible exchange rate". However, China has so far dug in its heels.

"We cannot just consider our bilateral trade surplus with the US - we have to consider our trade surplus with the rest of the world," Zhou Xiaochuan, the governor of the People's Bank of China, said.

The G7 ministers have invited their counterparts from China, India, Brazil and South Africa to the talks in an attempt to give the forum wider reach and legitimacy.

The dollar has been sliding for several years, and hit a low against the euro in December. It has since recovered, easing pressure on G7 ministers to take action.

They are expected to repeat a statement issued a year ago in Boca Raton, Florida, which said they did not want excessive volatility in currency markets and wanted more flexible currency regimes.

Jesus christ this country f*ckin' sucks. "Well if we aren't in control and its not about us...well we don't want to have anything to do with it."

This is going to be the longest 4 years ever....

[ralphwiggum 6]

http://www.cnn.com/2005/ALLPOLITICS/02/07/bush.budget.ap/index.html

Quote[/b] ]WASHINGTON (AP) -- President Bush sent Congress a $2.57 trillion budget plan Monday that would eliminate or vastly scale back 150 government programs while cutting the deficit to $390 billion for 2006

The spending proposal -- the most austere of Bush's presidency -- will spark months of debate in Congress, where lawmakers will fight to protect their favored programs.

Outside defense, homeland security and the government's huge mandatory programs such as Social Security, Bush proposes cutting spending for the rest of government by 0.5 percent, the first such proposed cut since the Reagan administration.

Of 23 major government agencies, 12 would see their budget authority reduced next year, including cuts of 9.6 percent at Agriculture and 5.6 percent at the Environmental Protection Agency.

Aside from defense and homeland security, favored Bush programs included a new $1.5 billion high school performance program, expanded Pell Grants for low-income college students and more support for community health clinics.

"It's budget that sets priorities," Bush said after a meeting with his Cabinet. "It's a budget that reduces and eliminates redundancy. It's a budget that's a lean budget."

Bush acknowledged that it would be difficult to eliminate popular programs but he said programs must prove their worth. "I'm very optimistic."

House Democratic Leader Rep. Nancy Pelosi of California called Bush's budget "a hoax on the American people. The two issues that dominated the president's State of the Union address -- Iraq and Social Security -- are nowhere to be found in this budget."

Bush's budget proposal does not reflect the costs for overhauling Social Security by allowing younger workers to set up private investment accounts. Aides said accurate cost estimates could not be made since the plan is still being developed.

The plan does not include an additional $80 billion for military operations in Iraq and Afghanistan, which the administration has said it will seek in coming weeks. That money is authorized and spent through a separate budgeting process.

Bush's 2006 spending plan, for the budget year that will begin October 1, counts on a healthy economy to boost revenues by 6.1 percent to $2.18 trillion. Spending, meanwhile, would grow by 3.5 percent to $2.57 trillion.

The spending document projects that the deficit will hit a record -- in terms of dollars -- $427 billion this year, the third straight year that the red ink in dollar terms has set a record. Bush projects that the deficit will fall to $390 billion in 2006 and gradually decline to $233 billion in 2009 and $207 billion in 2010.

In his budget message to Congress, Bush said, "In order to sustain our economic expansion, we must continue pro-growth policies and enforce even greater spending restraint across the federal government."

Democrats complained that Bush was resorting to draconian cuts that would hurt the needy in order to protect his first term tax cuts that primarily benefited the wealthy.

"This budget is part of the Republican plan to cut Social Security benefits while handing out lavish tax breaks for multimillionaires," said Senate Democratic Leader Harry Reid, D-Nevada. "Its cuts in veterans programs, health care and education reflect the wrong priorities, and its huge deficits are fiscally irresponsible."

Critics also contend that the five-year deficit projections also mask the costs of some Bush initiatives such as making his first-term tax cuts permanent, the bulk of which do not show up until after 2010. The budget estimates the 10-year cost of making the president's tax cut proposals permanent at $1.29 trillion.

Bush's budget proposed increasing military spending by 4.8 percent to $419.3 billion in 2006. However, even with the increase a number of major weapons programs, including Bush's missile defense system and the B-2 stealth bomber, would see cuts from this year's levels.

Bush's proposal would trim $5.7 billion over the next decade from government support programs for farmers, which would represent cuts to farmers growing a wide range of cuts from cotton and rice to corn, soybeans and wheat.

Overall, the administration projected saving $8.2 billion in agriculture programs over the next decade including trimming food stamp payments to the poor by $1.1 billion.

Other programs set for reductions include the Army Corps of Engineers, whose dam and other waterway projects are extremely popular in Congress; the Energy Department; several health programs under the Health and Human Services Department and federal subsidies for Amtrak.

About one-third of the programs subject to elimination are in the Education Department, including federal grant programs for local schools in such areas as vocational education, anti-drug efforts and Even Start, a $225 million literacy program.

In all, the president proposed $137 billion less over the next 10 years than previously forecast for mandatory programs with much of that occurring in reductions in Medicaid, the big federal-state program that provides health care for the poor, and in payments the Veterans Administration makes for health care. The administration proposed no savings for Medicare, the giant health care program for the elderly.

Many of the spending cuts in the plan are repeats of efforts the administration has proposed and Congress has rejected previously.

finally, the budget proposal is in, and there is a dim light of hope. Bush now understands that cutting deficit is important. bad news is that he still has a lot more to go.

Quote[/b] ]BUDGET HIGHLIGHTS

Receipts: $2.178 trillion.

Outlays: $2.568 trillion.

Deficit: $390 billion.

Discretionary outlays: $922 billion.

Mandatory outlays: $1.41 trillion.

Interest payments: $211 billion

I also read a few days ago that the budget proposal slashed federal funding for local LEOs. Homeland security would be affected IMO

[theavonlady 2]

Place your bets!

Quote[/b] ]Identity of Watergate Source ''Deep Throat'' May Soon Be Revealed

It appears the Watergate source known as "Deep Throat" may be close to death, and that means that individual's name may be made public for the first time.

Reporter Bob Woodward has said in the past that he would disclose the identity of the source when that person died. "Deep Throat" helped Woodward and the Washington Post expose the Nixon Watergate scandal.

The Washington Post has already prepared an obituary, which means the world may soon know the secret Woodward has managed to keep for 30 years.

[EiZei 0]

Now this is going to be something interesting indeed

Wonder if kissinger's, bush senior's or buchanan's health has been deteriorating lately..

[theavonlady 2]

Let's see if they're right.

[SpongeBob 0]

What's the hold up, Linda Lovelace has died in 2002.

[theavonlady 2]

What's the hold up, Linda Lovelace has died in 2002.

I had to Google that one.

[Tovarish 0]

And I had a good laugh

[denoir 0]

Fines for 'droopy drawers' backed [bBC]

Quote[/b] ]

US politicians fed up with catching an eyeful of underwear want to fine those who won't hitch up their trousers.

The Virginia state house has voted to outlaw the trend of wearing trousers so low that underwear hangs over the top. Delegates said the habit, popular across the US and in other Western countries, was "coarsening" society. But others hit back, urging legislators to remember their own "fashion follies" and saying the law would be used mostly against black people.

The house adopted the "droopy drawers" bill by a margin of 60-34. If the state senate also approves, youngsters in Virginia showing too much of their boxer shorts or G-strings could be fined $50 (Å26). The habit, apparently picked up from rap and skateboarding culture, has become popular among boys and girls of all races, but particularly black youngsters. Democrat Delegate Algie T Howell proposed the bill.

"It's not an attack on baggy pants. It's not about Janet Jackson. It's not about Randy Moss," he said, referring to the American footballer recently fined for pretending to "moon" opposing fans.

"To vote for this bill would be a vote for character, to uplift your community and to do something good not only for the state of Virginia, but for this entire country," he added.

Faux pas

Others were similarly offended by the current trend.

"Most of us would identify this as the coarsening of society," said Delegate John Reid, a Republican.

"Underwear is called underwear for a reason."

But Delegate Lionell Spruill, a Democrat, objected, calling it "a foolish bill".

He asked fellow politicians to remember their own former fashion faux pas, including Afro haircuts, platform shoes and shiny polyester "shell suits".

"Please, let these kids express themselves," he urged, before warning there could be a sinister side to the bill.

"This is going to be a bill that targets blacks. You know who they are going to stop," he said.

[billybob2002 0]

I understand the guys shouldn't have their underwear showing but no g-strings..