USA Politics Thread - *No gun debate*

[GRS 10]

Everything is the Republicans' fault and Democrats are all-wise saints. :rolleyes:

[*LK1* 10]

cut military spending(not defense spending)

main solution. they want to replace the current jets with missiles with ufo&lasers, that's the problem.

---------- Post added at 10:28 PM ---------- Previous post was at 10:26 PM ----------

Everything is the Republicans' fault and Democrats are all-wise saints. :rolleyes:

not really. but if you look on the republican side is hard to find a decent president for example. most of the goods were democrats.

Edited July 21, 2011 by ***LeGeNDK1LLER***

[Tonci87 163]

^this

somehow the republican presidents were always occupied with the neee to filltueir and their buddys pockets....oohh and to start wars

[walker 0]

Hi all

The Fact is, that the Republican party is no longer conservative. It is a puppet party run by those who own it; the Welfare Queens of Wall Street and Murdoch.

With a Republican party that is Murdoch owned and run you cannot expect anything like true conservitism. What you end up with is a stalinist party where Murdoch decides who the Republican Presedential candidates are and has even started to decide who the individual members of the Republican Party for Congress and the Senate are, as well as what they think, say and do.

They agree to what Murdoch bangs the table about and tells them through Fox; or they loose their jobs.

Kind Regards walker

Edited July 22, 2011 by walker

[GRS 10]

And can anyone give me a good reason why the Democratic side is apparently so superior?

[Tonci87 163]

Walker, I really respect your opinion, but please stop repeating the same thing over and over again

[abs 2]

Welcome to the 21st century, America! You're now starting to acknowledge equality! Great job on joining the progressive armies of the world, such as those of ancient Greece. Can't wait to see what you come up with next!

Abs

[Zipper5 74]

And can anyone give me a good reason why the Democratic side is apparently so superior?

Republicans are a hell of a lot more publicly hateful and warmongering bunch. God Bless America and no one else, and that kind of stuff. And I'd rather have 4 more years of Obama than 1 day under Michelle Bachmann, the GOP frontrunner, and her homophobic, one-true-faith husband.

[Baff1 0]

And can anyone give me a good reason why the Democratic side is apparently so superior?

You need to claim the moral high ground, in order to steal from people and get away with it.

If rich people are rich because they are immoral, it's ok to take from them. If rich people are rich because they work harder than others, or spend less of it than others... then taking their money from them presents certain moral issues.

There is human need for Democrats to feel superior. They couldn't feel good about the things they do unless they did.

I also feel that there is a gap in the way Liberals and Republicans approach issues. Idealism vs pragmatism.

So that for a democtrat, the ideal is all, even if it is not achieveable, the will to make progress towards a higher ideal is king, but for a republican, the need for improvement is more shaped by what they think has a track record of having worked before. Traditon/conservatism vs progressivism.

So we get Democrats trying to do the most mindboggling stupid things... becuase they would rather try to do more good and fail than not try at all, because their hearts are ruled by hope above experience; and we get Republicans refusing to take risks because they would rather not throw away all the successes of the past, because their hearts are ruled by experience above hope.

I a feel there is another difference in the way we justify things to oursleves. I believe in the concept of necessary evil. I will do bad things to people when I believe necessity and self-intrest dictates.

Other people can't justify behaving unkindly, so they moralise their circumstances. Pretend that evil is good.

So a Repubilcan can justify war in the name of resources and hegemony, while a Democrat has to label it as humanitarian intervention.

Stupid example: If there are two thirsty people, and only enough water available to support one life, then unless the other person is someone whose life I value above my own, I will take that water.

A Republican who drinks that water does so knowing full well that he is undergoing a selfish and evil act. But a Democrat, when he drinks that water, he does it in the full knowledge that it is the other guy who is evil.

I'm not sure that Republicans and Democrats are any more or less war like. Bush was a Republican, but after 9/11 all of America was clamouring for war, not just the Republicans.

I don't think it's fair to say they are more nationalistic either. Flag waving doesn't seem to be restricted to any politcal faction in my opinion. Each seems to have otpposing ideas about what it is that makes America better than everywhere else... but they all fundamentally believe in the superiority of their society in my opinion.

Edited July 22, 2011 by Baff1

[dmarkwick 261]

The problem with American politics, from a European point, is that it is entirely polarised and partisan. So that, you are either 100% Republican, or 100% Democrat. This paradigm is so entrenched and accepted that if you disagree with one single policy of one party, you can be written off as 100% in favour of the other party, Any policy that has a danger of being a good policy, can be immediately written off by 50% of the people simply because of it's origin.

There seems to be several common fallacious habits:

Everyone who has a different opinion, has the same opinion as each other ("typical liberal" etc).

Critisism of one thing means acceptance of another thing.

Disagreement with one single thing means acceptance of 100% of the policies of the opposing party.

Nothing but bad ideas come from the other party.

Etc.

There doesn't seem to be any realistic possibility for a third party to make any impact because when people see one single policy they recognise, they are able to write off that entire party as "another [insert Rep/Dem as appropriate]" without considering the entirety.

Edited July 22, 2011 by DMarkwick

[GRS 10]

It just seems to me like democrats claim they are superior "because they are superior," more so than republicans. An almost entirely liberal media doesn't help that either. :rolleyes:

This is exactly why I hate politics. Let alone that politicians are scum in general, but as stated, people are so focused on their side that they refuse to admit that they both suck equally in their own special way. Control has swung from side to side like a pendulum in the past, but the swings have gotten smaller and are coming to a halt now, which means the clock aint workin' and both sides are pulling their way to restart it. Except those pulling efforts are comprised of slinging insults at the other side and refusing to acknowledge their own sides stupidity.

Baff, interesting post. I liked it.

Edited July 22, 2011 by GRS

[Tonci87 163]

I very much liked the last 3 posts. If only Democrats and Republicans could work together properly. America would be in a better shape. As it is now each Party tries to fight the other.

[froggyluv 2130]

Tho polarization of politics is indeed at toxic levels, there are still some swing voters -or else Obama could have never been elected as it is generally decided that America as a whole swings Right.

I've been watching politics on CSPAN ( network that covers actual vote proceedings) since a teen and the one thing I always noticed is that Republicans always seemed to stick together -that being, towing there party's national agenda more then Democrats. As Ronald Reagan once stated "No Republican shall speak ill of another Republican"....always sounded like thug mentality to me. Shouldn't it be "No Republican shall stand silent or idle when another does wrong for our country"?! That would be a party I'd proudly vote for.

Democrats still have what are considered "conservative Democrats" (generally in the South or West) whilst Republicans count very few that could be considered 'Liberal".

As for Democrats acting "morally superior", it is the Conservatives who portray themselves as the Party of Family Christian Values so that argument is bunk. Especially in light of the many republicans who get caught in gay wife swapping scandals (as do Democrats).

[GRS 10]

Not really, Democrats often claim moral superiority saying that the "morally superior" Christian values are morally inferior. Truth is, it all goes both ways, no matter how its argued.

[froggyluv 2130]

Maybe so but I'm referring to when the Republicans, notably during Reagan/Bush1/Quayle really starting pushing the "Traditional Family Values" as a hallmark of the party. IMO, the result was a backlash from many Democrats who questioned why they had the moral authority to make that determination.

Now, you see outright hostility towards Christianity or similar Abrahamic religions by many on the left no doubt.

Edited July 22, 2011 by froggyluv

[walker 0]

Hi all

The numbers of Republican voters has decreasing for decades with fewer and fewer at each election. For the past few years the Republican vote has been dependent on gerrymandering election districts to the extent that in Florida and many southern states districts look like torn rags as NeoConMen try to maintain a majority somwhere.

The NeoConMen and their often foreign donaters among the Welfare Queens of Wall Street have become increasingly desperate and sold the party to Murdoch and his Tea Party.

Hense why so many red states have been turning increasingly Democratic blue.

Expectations are that the NeoConMen's incompetant Congress who yet again look set to destroy the American economy for a second time in August, will be trounced by the US electorate for their negligence at the next elections and by an even bigger wave than that which gave American President Obama victory.

Kind Regards walker

[*LK1* 10]

And can anyone give me a good reason why the Democratic side is apparently so superior?

dude the republicans are just taking their votes from the most ignorant, religious and xenophobic side of america. they use patriotic arguments to get the favor of the people but in fact, from reagan to our days, they are just giving a lot of troubles to the state. public dept, wars ecc.

[GRS 10]

Again, just a hate argument. I could easily hate the democrats with similar, equally "true" arguments, but whats the point? They both suck.

[vilas 474]

The problem with American politics, from a European point, is that it is entirely polarised and partisan. So that, you are either 100% Republican, or 100% Democrat.

it is the same way in many countries, in my too (and it all goes to personal attack between politicians , cause one steal , other want to put them in to jail, impossible to have compromise between cheater and this who hunt)

but in America it seems like there are only 2 right wing parties, one right wing more , second right wing closer to center

but USA lacks of any left wing party (Obama for me is center-right wing), but it seems they not feel lack of it if third party not appeared (socialist party for example, atheistic anti church party etc.)

Edited July 22, 2011 by vilas

[GRS 10]

If Obama is "center-right," then I couldn't imagine a "regular" real left winger, nor would I want to. He's definitely not the most left person out there, but hardly towards the right.

Edited July 22, 2011 by GRS

[st_dux 26]

If Obama is "center-right," then I couldn't imagine a "regular" real left winger, nor would I want to. He's definitely not the most left person out there, but hardly towards the right.

The terms "left" and "right" are relative. Obama might be "left wing" in America, but from vilas' perspective -- someone who has lived in a country that at one time was actually socialist -- Obama is still basically a pro-capitalism Western leader.

These days there really isn't much difference between Republicans and Democrats. Both parties maintain a standard neoclassical outlook on economics and tend to be in favor of increasing the size of government, freely intervening in foreign military affairs, and basically supporting the status quo otherwise. There really isn't much of anything meaningful that separates them at all, which is why DMarckwick's accurate point about the divisiveness of American politics (100% Republican vs. 100% Democrat with no in-between) is particularly ironic. The kinds of "divisive issues" that Republicans and Democrats argue over are usually things that really don't matter anyway, like abortion rights, which is something that was decided by the Supreme Court decades ago and isn't changing. Other than that, they basically just tell their supporters whatever it is they want to hear, and then when the get elected, they simply keep doing what the government has been doing. Obama, for example, said he would take us out of Iraq and Afghanistan, close our extrajudicial prison in Guantanamo Bay, and officially acknowledge the Armenian genocide. He has done none of those things, and in an even more ironic twist, he actually got us into a new conflict that nobody wanted in Libya.

There are very few American politicians who actually want to make any significant changes to anything. Ron Paul, Dennis Kucinich and Rand Paul (a Republican representative, a Democratic representative and a Republican senator, respectively) are pretty much the only three active American politicians I can think of who actually have a fresh outlook on things.

[Hans Ludwig 0]

The problem with American politics, from a European point, is that it is entirely polarised and partisan. So that, you are either 100% Republican, or 100% Democrat. This paradigm is so entrenched and accepted that if you disagree with one single policy of one party, you can be written off as 100% in favour of the other party, Any policy that has a danger of being a good policy, can be immediately written off by 50% of the people simply because of it's origin.

You don't understand politics in the States. Once you say "American politics" then you have shown your lack of understanding of how diverse politics are in the states. It's probably because you are from the UK, which is flea bite on an elephant.

As someone that worked as a legislative aide for city councilman and later a state representative, those that have been in politics for a long time will tell you that all politics are local. That's why you hardly will see party affiliation when one runs at the city, county and state level, other than governor. You can't even look at legislation passed and proposed legislation introduced to see who is a Democrat, Liberal, Conservative, Republican, Libertarian and etc... Why? Because at the heart of the matter is that constituents really only are concerned with lower taxes, streets with out potholes and better infrastructure. It hasn't been until this year that you have seen those that vote, no matter of their political ideology, take a more concerned view to reckless spending done by both parties. This has been evidenced by a plethora of polling.

CNN Poll: Drop in liberal support pushes Obama approval rating down

Washington (CNN) – President Barack Obama's approval rating is down to 45 percent, driven in part by growing dissatisfaction on the left with the president's track record in office, according to a new national survey.

A CNN/ORC International Poll also indicates that the Republican "brand" is taking a beating in the minds of Americans.

Read full results (pdf).

http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2011/07/22/cnn-poll-drop-in-liberal-support-pushes-obama-approval-rating-down/?hpt=hp_t2

Edited July 23, 2011 by Hans Ludwig

[dmarkwick 261]

You don't understand politics in the States. Once you say "American politics" then you have shown your lack of understanding of how diverse politics are in the states. It's probably because you are from the UK, which is flea bite on an elephant.

As someone that worked as a legislative aide for city councilman and later a state representative, those that have been in politics for a long time will tell you that all politics are local. That's why you hardly will see party affiliation when one runs at the city, county and state level, other than governor. You can't even look at legislation passed and proposed legislation introduced to see who is a Democrat, Liberal, Conservative, Republican, Libertarian and etc... Why? Because at the heart of the matter is that constituents really only are concerned with lower taxes, streets with out potholes and better infrastructure. It hasn't been until this year that you have seen those that vote, no matter of their political ideology, take a more concerned view to reckless spending done by both parties. This has been evidenced by a plethora of polling.

CNN Poll: Drop in liberal support pushes Obama approval rating down

Washington (CNN) – President Barack Obama's approval rating is down to 45 percent, driven in part by growing dissatisfaction on the left with the president's track record in office, according to a new national survey.

A CNN/ORC International Poll also indicates that the Republican "brand" is taking a beating in the minds of Americans.

Read full results (pdf).

http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2011/07/22/cnn-poll-drop-in-liberal-support-pushes-obama-approval-rating-down/?hpt=hp_t2

Local council politics isn't really what I was discussing. I was discussing American politics as in who runs the country. My local council aren't too interested in Conservatism vs Labour either.

[walker 0]

Hi all

The Status of the US Dollar as reserve currency is now being questioned.

http://blogs.forbes.com/afontevecchia/2011/06/30/dollars-share-of-global-reserves-continues-to-slide-reserve-status-questioned/

http://www.guampdn.com/article/20110719/OPINION02/107190323/Why-would-bad-America-default

http://www.risk.net/risk-magazine/news/2083396/single-reserve-currency-warns-gulliver

And with the possiblity of Euro taking on the role without the UK as a member off the table; though some still see it as a possiblity:

http://www.google.com/hostednews/afp/article/ALeqM5iy_-TFIXWmv1-FBAbIO9GMYKoonw?docId=CNG.e089e5107d4cdab3c4baa81aae21ec64.791

Many are now talking openly of the Chinese Yuan as the next world reserve currency.

http://www.project-syndicate.org/commentary/roach7/English

Some Arab oil countries are already switching, and even Japan is looking that way.

http://georgewashington2.blogspot.com/2011/03/china-takes-giant-step-towards-making.html

Has the Republican congress finaly managed to destroy the US economy?

Walker

Edited July 27, 2011 by walker

[Baff1 0]

Not much possibility of the Eu taking over from the Dollar as global reserve.

The flight from the Dollar this week is only surpassed by the flight from the Euro.

The Pound is indeed currently rising against both of these currencies. Which is great for our banking sector, but terrible for out attempts to rebalance our economy away from the banking sector. (Towards exports for example). I find it pretty comical, not to mention worrying that the Pound is looking to be the worlds most stable currency. Given the state of our own current economic woes.

The TV channels here are discussing the downgrading of US credit rating regardless of what happens on August the 3rd at this point.

I don't think even the Tea Party movement can save it from that anymore.

It's no longer just a question of whether the states has the ability to repay it's debts, it is also a question of whether it has the political will. If they can't get cross party support for an austerity budget, then they will lose it.

Edited July 27, 2011 by Baff1