bump mapping ?

[Heatseeker 0]

Interesting, i wonder on wich textures would bumpmapping look any good if it was possible? Maybe vehicals and other metalic looking units .

Quote[/b] ]DeadmeatXM2 and Zander...thanks... you're doing a great job for our community... i owe you guy's one.

Are you really concerned about Nephilins feelings or about the bumpmapped looking spider things, i see no excuse here for childish and rude behaviour, topics are used to discuss these things .

[Romolus 0]

I really don't want to add fuel to this, but I find it interesting how ppl are called stubborn just because they don't agree with someone else and trying hard to explain their point of view.

Instead of explaining what she meant she threatened to quit. Now who's stubborn?

No one ever said that there weren't some nifty methods to use Bump or Normal mapping to enhance textures to be used with OFP.

@nephilim:

No one ever said that you are lying, or that you have no clue what you're talking about.

Some people (including me) just stated that the way you put your words implied something that's not possible with the OFP engine as far as we know and explained our point.

So why don't you just explain in a few words what YOU exactly meant and all is settled?

@others:

Could we please keep on topic and don't just heat up this discussion by attacking other ppl?

About using Normal maps for OFP:

AfaIk there isn't any freeware tool that renders normal maps to textures, but I would be happy if someone prooves me wrong here

The process is basically that you take a high poly model and generate a Normal map from it. (There are some freewaretools available from ATI and nVidia for this.)

Then you take that normal map and use it in a 3D rendering program like 3ds max (other 3D programs work as well) to apply this Normal map to a low poly model and render a flat texture from it. The texture then displays the geometry from the high resolution model without having this geometry actually modeled on your low resolution model.

With some extra effort you can also render some global illumination shadows into your texture to make it even look better.

[Romolus 0]

Interesting, i wonder on wich textures would bumpmapping look any good if it was possible? Maybe vehicals and other metalic looking units .

The method I described can be used for pretty much everything where you want to have details in the texture that you don't want to have in the model (for poly count reasons) or you don't want to paint by hand into the texture.

[Totmacher 0]

Quote[/b] ]Znader @ Nov. 06 2004,21:09

oh ok you talk about the diffuse map ?

Yes this was it what i mean with the colour map   . Difuse and bumpmap the reason i sad 2 maps for the starship troober bug if there realy use bumpmaping how i define bumpmapping.

[Zander 0]

Quote[/b] ]Znader @ Nov. 06 2004,21:09

oh ok you talk about the diffuse map ?

Yes this was it what i mean with the colour map   . Difuse and bumpmap the reason i sad 2 maps for the starship troober bug if there realy use bumpmaping how i define bumpmapping.

ok

[Master_Chief 0]

Even if you could add bump maps and and all these other cool effects, how would you actually apply it to an addon? You couldn't do it through o2 i think, and the cfgmaterials wouldn't work either. So why bother? OFP has a good engine, so why keep trying to make it something that it is not? Its kind of funny, a modern flight simulator engine only has a few vehicle classes, and the features like moving control surfaces and cockpit buttons are there, but thats all there is. OFP has way more abilities than any other game i've seen. Seriously, ofp has to keep track of every little detail at once, from the angle of every plane's control surfaces to the tank's tread suspension to the angle the soldiers feet should be in order to fit perfectly to the ground. All this is going on while displaying high res addon models and complex scripts that it wasn't originally designed for, so if after all that you feel that ofp doesn't look good enough, uninstall it and go play battlefield vietnam, it has all the shiny crap that you are looking for.

ps that reminds me of a good Hellfish6 quote:

Quote[/b] ]many people are attracted to shiny things. Like monkeys and fish

also this isn't directed at one person, its directed at people who ask impossible things of an old but honest engine. Maybe its like living with a friend too long, after a while you can only see their annoying habits and problems. Or maybe OFP has so many features that it seems silly to leave some out. Like why wouldn't you be able to have lights that moved with turrets, or normal wheels on tanks? Or bump maps? Bump maps have been around forever! I think that engine limits are kind of good because it makes it all that much better when you overcome them. But you have to be reasonable...

[colonel_klink 0]

From what I have seen the texturetomaterial part of OFP goes some way to adding the shiney surfaces to OFP models. While it doesnt render shadows it does give some parts of the model a shadow effect when the model is moved in relation to the light source in OFP.

[Zander 0]

Even if you could add bump maps and and all these other cool effects, how would you actually apply it to an addon? You couldn't do it through o2 i think, and the cfgmaterials wouldn't work either. So why bother? OFP has a good engine, so why keep trying to make it something that it is not? Its kind of funny, a modern flight simulator engine only has a few vehicle classes, and the features like moving control surfaces and cockpit buttons are there, but thats all there is. OFP has way more abilities than any other game i've seen. Seriously, ofp has to keep track of every little detail at once, from the angle of every plane's control surfaces to the tank's tread suspension to the angle the soldiers feet should be in order to fit perfectly to the ground. All this is going on while displaying high res addon models and complex scripts that it wasn't originally designed for, so if after all that you feel that ofp doesn't look good enough, uninstall it and go play battlefield vietnam, it has all the shiny crap that you are looking for.

ps that reminds me of a good Hellfish6 quote:

Quote[/b] ]many people are attracted to shiny things. Like monkeys and fish

cool

[Lupus-WD- 0]

Well, somewhere in the hex code you have : cfgmaterials, and you can see : emmissive, diffuse, forceddiffuse, specular, specularpower... very familiar to those who tweaked some materials innit ? and what else, in the same section ? detailmapFactor and bumpmapFactor...

Now imagine that if it would still be active in the engine you have some textures in a cfgtexturetomaterial section associated to a cfgmaterials with some bumpmapfactor'ed material. you could verywell use the alpha channel for the bump map(/greyscale map).

But now, if it's disabled, only bis could enable that... modifying the exe is totally forbidden.

edit : Typo

[Master_Chief 0]

I checked out the hex, and it was interesting. I found a reference to wavebumpmap.paa (for water). Maybe this is tied into the multitexturing feature in the options menu. Maybe at one point it was for specular/bumpmapping textures as well? I honestly don't think bumpmapping would have looked good on the original bis models...

[nephilim 0]

original ofp doenst use real bump mapping for water

i has several more_anim.XX files which are all diffrent in a little way chief

as for "free ware" progs for bump normal maps

doom3´s sdk generates bump maps

and theres a plug-in for photoshop

i treated kegs water bumpmap (IN DXDLL/TEXTURES/WATERBUMP.PNG (!!!))

with normal/ bump mapping and i have better results

in bumpyness then simpyl increasing the bumpiness by the configurator

means theres no INCRESED impact on performance

i still have 30-40 fps playing with ~50 sst arachinds

on a shallow lake....

k listen

as really tried it many ways

i even can do that "shadow bump mapping" (not normal bump mapping) but this

is rather a fake effect cuz it increases the polygon count by 2x

so i left that out for complex models but still have it like on the colony complex for the uscm mod

this fake effect is created by putting a second layer on a standart surface, which normally (evn in standart ofp)

creates a texture

now think clever dudes, wot can this be?

some pics

http://img121.exs.cx/img121/5868/head_bm.jpg

http://img121.exs.cx/img121/8130/headtex.jpg

http://img121.exs.cx/img121/8236/headtex_local.jpg

original texture taken fromm doom3 converted to ofp pac

http://img121.exs.cx/img121/8116/hellknight.jpg

http://img121.exs.cx/img121/1460/hellknight_local.jpg

http://img121.exs.cx/img121/319/hellknighta.jpg

and a ingamge screen of the new arachind

http://img121.exs.cx/img121/4300/dxdshot1099217539.jpg

and how the hellknight looks like when in ofp

(please not that ive onyl cut out hte background of buldozer

as it was ment to save image size and presentation means)

note the degraded textures

http://img121.exs.cx/img121/4316/ofphellknight.jpg

[Ville-Valo666 0]

YEAH, manti, is that your comming back?

sig away, and even not 1 word of hate

please tell me youre back in business

[Ville-Valo666 0]

BTM this doom 3 "thing" for OFp looks scary good

[gandalf the white 0]

http://img121.exs.cx/img121/4316/ofphellknight.jpg

i like this skin better .

Manticore, great to have you back!

the new anarchithingy (bug) looks great too! can't wait to see it on my own PC .

just one more question about the engine: is the ENTIRE ENGINE packed in the .exe? that thing that is about 2.5 MB?

[dm 9]

just one more question about the engine: is the ENTIRE ENGINE packed in the .exe?  that thing that is about 2.5 MB?  

Yes, the actual engine is only a form of condensed text-based code, thus even several million lines of code would only run into a few Mb.

Its the models and textures (which are not contained in the engine) which make up the bulk of the filesize.

Note though, that the engine does also rely on several dlls, some of which are included in the OFP folder, others are referenced from the windows folders.

[nephilim 0]

never said im back and i wont be back with any stuff releasing

just wanted to show u the stuff ive done

about those lines

placebo prolly deleted them cuz there were too many lines,,

cheers

ps

are u now satisfied?

btw beside arachnid, hopper and doom3lite (yes aconversion of d3 for ofp) u can aswell say goodbye to the uap

which i wanted to release on christmas eve

thx

[lee_h._oswald 0]

btw beside arachnid, hopper and doom3lite (yes aconversion of d3 for ofp) u can aswell say goodbye to the uap

which i wanted to release on christmas eve

I think it is now enough said, what you are not gonna go to release, ok?

All the others are friendly now, so you could calm down too a little bit.

If you do not want to release your addons to the OFP COMMUNITY because of ONE OR TWO PPL, just let them on your harddisk.

If that makes you happy....

MfG Lee

[hardrock 1]

Without wanting to offense anybody - I've big respect to your work, nephilim - but I think it's rather childish to leave the community in a "look what you've done!"-style just because a dumb misunderstanding or an incident like this one. That's the big problem of a forum: you can only write the way you think something, other than with smilies it's very hard to get your feelings and your expression into the text, since it's simply plain text and no more. Now others read this text and interprete it, they assign you the feelings that they would have when they were writing the same text, but huh, her comes the big surprise: everybody is and thinks different, especially if the members of a forum are spreaded around the whole world, then it makes just more difference.

Because of this I think one should be very careful before getting upset about someone's post and read all very carefully. As long as someone doesn't write "u azzh0le dont no anything go F*CK ur mUm" he probably doesn't mean anything bad. If you're member of a forum, you just have to ignore some things because they probably aren't meant the way you understand it, but getting that upset and saying "ha now look what you've all done, I'm leaving the community! I'll never return and you'll never get this and that model that I've made and will never know bout the one or other technique I found out etc. bla bla bla".

That simply doesn't make sense.

It's just impossible to get upset about someone you've never talked to or someone you've never met, just as impossible as you could fall in love with any member of this forum just by reading his (or her) posts.

And really, I don't think you'll change very much with this behaviour. If you stay, people will be very glad and love you for the work you do to them, and if you leave, well: then today we'll still discuss about whether or not it's right of you to leave, and tomorrow ... baf you'll be gone out of our minds. Nobody'll go cry because you left. Maybe in some years someone will say "huh you remember Nephilim? Great work she did, but the way she left . . . very strange".

So I think you should doublethink about your decision.

[Lupus-WD- 0]

I checked out the hex, and it was interesting. I found a reference to wavebumpmap.paa (for water). Maybe this is tied into the multitexturing feature in the options menu. Maybe at one point it was for specular/bumpmapping textures as well? I honestly don't think bumpmapping would have looked good on the original bis models...

for info, wavebumpmap.paa is what has bee used as mrak_war_3.paa in some custom sky mods, i dont really know how it is related to the water, looks like a cloud to me too, but who knows? Ask BIS :P

And i see how bump map would have looked good on original bis models, as on everything else anyway.

Having more detailed and realistic materials with no cost in tems of vertices can always make something look better, it's all a matter of talent and ponderation. For comparison, some game could have outrageous colours on the textures it's not a reason to say that a game is always better in black and white ;)

[Ville-Valo666 0]

yea i fully agree eith hardrock,

come BACK