Theo van Gogh murdered

[Postduifje 0]

Amen to that!

[Frisbee 0]

I dunno, can you mention some Thai religious symbols? I bet someone will be more than willing to make a nice emblem of it, for you to wear on your jacket...

Heh, then we can ban it like headscarves and such.

Quote[/b] ]you'll see all skin colours causing problems. Go for a walk through the city center at four am on a saturday night, and you'll see both 'furriners' and 'true Dutchmen' vomiting on the sightwalk, picking fights and hurling abuse at the police. EVERYBODY causes trouble.

Very much so, it's what I meant to imply with my previous post.

[iNeo 0]

He was a dutchman in all ways.

Except ethnical. Would he still have killed if he was Dutch?

I'm with Ironsight & Lt Hunter, if they can't "behave" they've got no right to stay, in my eyes.

[xawery 0]

He was a dutchman in all ways.

Except ethnical.

That's right. So you're willing to treat someone in a different manner, ceteris paribus, because of his ethnicity? That spells R.A.C.I.S.M.

[mr_rOk 0]

He was a dutchman in all ways.

Except ethnical.

That's right. So you're willing to treat someone in a different manner, ceteris paribus, because of his ethnicity? That spells R.A.C.I.S.M.

Ever heard the term that "guests" should behave properly?

And how about a European killing someone in S.Arabia because of their outspoken nature, preaching end of the world for the west?

And do you think that a Christian (non Muslim) is in any government in the M.E.?

Do you see the gap in tolerance?

And if that is abused what then?

My opinion is that the Dutch government should talk to the moderate percentage of the Muslim population (hope that they're a majority) in an effort for them to make a stop on this themselves.

If not...oneway tickets for all.

Quote[/b] ]That's right. So you're willing to treat someone in a different manner, ceteris paribus, because of his ethnicity? That spells R.A.C.I.S.M.

That's right, it is. But do you think you are treated any different in their eyes.

[xawery 0]

Quote[/b] ]Ever heard the term that "guests" should behave properly?

Yep. I've also heard of art. 1 of the Dutch constitution, which states that in the eyes of the law everyone is equal, irrespective of faith, political alignment, ethnicity or anything similar. We're talking about expelling Dutchmen, because art. 2 clearly states that it's the law that decides who is Dutch or not. When you have the Dutch nationality, you are no longer a guest.

Expelling people with a double nationality or merely a permit should be possible, and actually already is in the latter case.

Quote[/b] ]Ever heard the term that "guests" should behave properly?

And how about a European killing someone in S.Arabia because of their outspoken nature, preaching end of the world for the west?

And do you think that a Christian (non Muslim) is in any government in the M.E.?

Do you see the gap in tolerance?

And if that is abused what then?

Let me put it bluntly: so fucking what? Do you want to model your system after the disfunctionalities of others? Eye for an eye? What kind of downward spiral thinking is that? What you suggest is like Rumsfeld defending the Abu Ghraib tortures because "Saddam was worse".

Quote[/b] ]My opinion is that the Dutch government should talk to the moderate percentage of the Muslim population (hope that they're a majority) in an effort for them to make a stop on this themselves.

If not...oneway tickets for all.

Disregarding that last sentence I agree: the government should certainly enter into a dialogue with the representatives of the Muslim community (I use the generalisation because the Muslim organisations are better organised and more universal than specific Moroccan/Turkish/etc. organisations). This is already the case.

Quote[/b] ]

Quote[/b] ]That's right. So you're willing to treat someone in a different manner, ceteris paribus, because of his ethnicity? That spells R.A.C.I.S.M.

That's right, it is. But do you think you are treated any different in their eyes.

Wow. Openly admitting to be racist in the 21st century either takes a lot of balls or a serious brain deficit. By the way, nice "we-they" mentality. "Their" eyes? Jesus...

[mr_rOk 0]

Wake up dude, turning the other cheek won't make it go away.

 

Quote[/b] ]

That's right. So you're willing to treat someone in a different manner, ceteris paribus, because of his ethnicity? That spells R.A.C.I.S.M.

That's right, it is. But do you think you are treated any different in their eyes.

Wow. Openly admitting to be racist in the 21st century either takes a lot of balls or a serious brain deficit. By the way, nice "we-they" mentality. "Their" eyes? Jesus...

It's just the truth, stop living an utopia where everyone is happy.

Don't you get it that the majority of the M.E. world isn't as tolerant as you are. Sorry fact but the truth isn't always beautiful.

[Supah 0]

It's just the truth, stop living an utopia where everyone is happy.

Don't you get it that the majority of the M.E. world isn't as tolerant as you are. Sorry fact but the truth isn't always beautiful.

Ah so by your flawed logic because in some countries women who had affairs get stoned we should start killing people who cheat on their partner? We should not adopt other countries flaws as our law under the logic of "They do it too!". Oh and about being a racist and proud of it, I hope you get discriminated against too Hopefully in the worst way possible. See how cool you think it is to be a racist then.

[xawery 0]

Learn to read, 'dude'. I'm not even considering the state of affairs in ME (nice broad term you use there...) becuase that's completely irrelevant for Dutch internal affairs. You brought up that bit (for no apparent reason). Hmm, Egypt is not a pure democracy, that means we must turn into a fascist state then!

A terrible lack of insight and understanding shines through your replies. 'They', 'ME'... Who, pray tell, are 'they'? The Middle East is a huge region. So who is it you're against? Because you obviously see them as 'the enemy', otherwise you wouldn't speak of turning another cheek. Them's fighting words. I can't recall us being at war with anyone. Tell me, do you see the Islam as the enemy?

I must say, good job. You've robbed this discussion of it's last shreds of legitimacy.

[Supah 0]

I must say, good job. You've robbed this discussion of it's last shreds of legitimacy.

I wouldn't say that. I don't know where mr_r0k is from (Republic Of Korea came to mind but again ... dunno) but his remarks do show the worsening of climate that stigmatises innocent people just because their appearance or religion. I think its a good example of the sort of idiots on all sides that are going around in the netherlands now burning islamic schools, christian churces and mosques.

[mr_rOk 0]

It's just the truth, stop living an utopia where everyone is happy.

Don't you get it that the majority of the M.E. world isn't as tolerant as you are. Sorry fact but the truth isn't always beautiful.

Ah so by your flawed logic because in some countries women who had affairs get stoned we should start killing people who cheat on their partner? We should not adopt other countries flaws as our law under the logic of "They do it too!".  Oh and about being a racist and proud of it, I hope you get discriminated against too Hopefully in the worst way possible. See how cool you think it is to be a racist then.

Your words not my thoughts...and I do not see Islam as a threat.

What I do see as a threat are a couple of individuals/groups who are exploiting Islam for their own personal (materialistic) gains.

Believe it or not I'm fairly liberal, not a racist, never was, never will be(as a matter of fact I love black and Asian women) but I do know that we are on a different level of civilisation than individuals/groups described above and we need to protect that level from bad outside influences.

Does that make me a racist? No.

I have no problem living next door to any person (race, religion) as long as they respect the law and aren't a pain in the ass.

But I do have a problem with a person killing another person because of his (outspoken) views.

You see what I mean?

You can call me an idiot, I can call you an idiot it won't change a thing-and just for the record; I wouldn't go around to burn peoples mosques, churches, sinagogues...

Xavery, I'm rather interested if your logic has the solution for this, seeing that you are the enlightened one.

[Ironsight 1]

Think it's the best to put this here:

Quote[/b] ]Dutch standoff after police raid

THE HAGUE, Netherlands (AP) -- Dutch police were locked in a standoff with an unknown number of terrorism suspects holed up in a house in The Hague after three officers were wounded by a hand grenade during a raid on the home, authorities said.

Authorities closed the air space over the city to small planes during Wednesday's operation.

Hague Chief Prosecutor Han Moraal said the raid was part of a "continuing investigation into terrorism," but would not confirm whether it was related to the Nov. 2 killing of filmmaker Theo van Gogh by an alleged Islamic radical.

Suspects were still inside the building, Hague Police Chief Gerard Bouwman said at a press conference, and confirmed that police and the suspects had exchanged gunfire.

Full article

[Sole 0]

That's less than a KM away from my school. Area is pretty locked up. The tram I normally take to school didn't run, but fortunatly they had replacement busses.

Last thing I heard was that MP M113's were on their way to the area. (described in the media as "tanks", hehe)

[Ironsight 1]

Last thing I heard was that MP M113's were on their way to the area. (described in the media as "tanks", hehe)

An eye-wittness on RTL was saying there were standing 5 APC's in an alley.

Think the assault on the building will start soon now

[mr_rOk 0]

Hope they crack on them hard...

[Ironsight 1]

Hope they crack on them hard...

Well, they are afraid that the terrorists will blow themselves up, like happened in Madrid.

[svendejong 0]

and idiots keep setting islamic schools, and churches on fire.

WTF is wrong with these people.

[mr_rOk 0]

@ Nov. 10 2004,16:07)]and idiots keep setting islamic schools, and churches on fire.

WTF is wrong with these people.

A bit of fear, anger and a right catalyst do "wonders", don't they?

Any info on how many terrorists are there?

Oh Xavery, here's something fresh for you so that you can see for your own eyes that the M.E. affairs dont affect the Netherlands

Quote[/b] ]A little-known Islamist group threatened to strike the Netherlands Tuesday after the attacks on Muslim buildings. The country has been the subject of several threats by Islamic extremists due to the presence of 1,300 Dutch troops in Iraq.

"Stop the attacks on our mosques, schools and the Muslim community in Holland ... before you pay a heavy price," said the statement attributed to the Islamic Tawhid Brigades, which claimed responsibility for bombings last month in Egypt.

http://www.cnn.com/2004....ex.html

[JRMZ 0]

@ Nov. 10 2004,16:07)]and idiots keep setting islamic schools, and churches on fire.

WTF is wrong with these people.

A bit of fear, anger and a right catalyst do "wonders", don't they?

Any info on how many terrorists are there?

Well no, our Dutch CIA does follow a lot of them, but I guess not all of them. They stated the killer of van Gogh wasnt a threadfull person, but now it seems he was.

I don't think we will ever have those info's about terrorists. Thats one of the strong points of them. They are very hard to trace.

[Ironsight 1]

Well no, our Dutch CIA does follow a lot of them, but I guess not all of them. They stated the killer of van Gogh wasnt a threadfull person, but now it seems he was.

The AIVD is only making big blunders lately. They released the leader of a terrorism network in the Netherlands, a lot of classified information was sent to terror suspects

Don't understand why this doesn't have any consequences for the AIVD staff

[Supah 0]

Well no, our Dutch CIA does follow a lot of them, but I guess not all of them. They stated the killer of van Gogh wasnt a threadfull person, but now it seems he was.

The AIVD is only making big blunders lately. They released the leader of a terrorism network in the Netherlands, a lot of classified information was sent to terror suspects  

Don't understand why this doesn't have any consequences for the AIVD staff  

It does, the person who supposedly leaked the information to the terror suspects is under arrest.

[sander 14]

Hi,

This is rather close to where I live, only just outside the perimeter. I could leave for work this morning with no problem, but I am curious whether I can get back when I return.

Regards,

Sander

[Ironsight 1]

Well no, our Dutch CIA does follow a lot of them, but I guess not all of them. They stated the killer of van Gogh wasnt a threadfull person, but now it seems he was.

The AIVD is only making big blunders lately. They released the leader of a terrorism network in the Netherlands, a lot of classified information was sent to terror suspects

Don't understand why this doesn't have any consequences for the AIVD staff

It does, the person who supposedly leaked the information to the terror suspects is under arrest.

Yeah, that's great

There were just a couple of shots fired, think they will assault the building soon.

[SandVoss 0]

Quote[/b] ]and idiots keep setting islamic schools, and churches on fire.

WTF is wrong with these people.

Newton's law states that for every action, there is a reaction. That is exactly the case here. These Islamic terrorists cannot expect to get away with terrorising the Netherlands and its native inhabitants, without getting something in return. It was to be expected that extreme-right orientated Dutch people (ie. skinheads) were going to do something.

I think that the murder of van Gogh made something in Dutch society go *snap*. Alot of impatience and agitation with muslim immigrants had been building up over time, and the murder on van Gogh was the droplet that made the bucket overflow.

And please dont think its plain racism, thats absolutely not the case! One must look at the big picture to judge the situation. Many Dutch people are afraid that the threat of retaliation by muslims has destroyed the notion of free speech in the Netherlands. Most people are afraid of speaking out against anything remotely related to Islam, and thats pretty sad, in a country where freedom of speech is greatly valued. Another point is crime. Official figures show that by far, young Morocan immigrants are responsible for most crimes commited in the Netherlands. This creates fear. And think of this, 6 years ago, there were no gangs in Amsterdam. Now theres more then 17, and they are largely Morocan/Turkish. For alot of Dutch people, it has simply become too much.

Quote[/b] ]They stated the killer of van Gogh wasnt a threadfull person

Threadfull? You mean hazardous? In what way was he hazardous, other than that he spoke out for what he believed in, nevermind how blunt he was?

[Supah 0]

Apparently the Local "Soccer" team's ADO den haag's more hooliganistic supporters are getting involved and the riot police is chasing them down with dogs. This is fast becoming a circus.