German movie "Der Untergang"

[Albert Schweitzer 10]

All I can say is that it's one of the best movies ever made in Germany! We should have come up with something like this earlier!

Now you are exaggerating (or just stating your own opinion   ). I agree it is a good movie indeed but the best ever made?  

Did you watch it during the weekend?

[raedor 8]

i watched it on last thursday (i did not want to dig up this thread ), i was pretty impressed by this movie. it is a really good film.

[-33ker 0]

Yes I've been watching it in Stralsund last saturday. It was the only movie I've seen in cinema where the people didn't get up after the last scene and quickly left the cinema. It was so quiet that you could have thought you're somewhere on a cemetary. Great movie. No doubt that I'd rate it as one of the best German movies of the last 25 years. The same category like Das Boot. Of course there are some other wonderful German movies like Metropolis, or Nosferatu, but that's quite another category.

[Albert Schweitzer 10]

Yes I've been watching it in Stralsund last saturday. It was the only movie I've seen in cinema where the people didn't get up after the last scene and quickly left the cinema. It was so quiet that you could have thought you're somewhere on a cemetary. Great movie. No doubt that I'd rate it as one of the best German movies of the last 25 years. The same category like Das Boot. Of course there are some other wonderful German movies like Metropolis, or Nosferatu, but that's quite another category.

yes.. sure it was a good movie.

However I think the protagonist (the secretary) was too beautiful. If they would have turned her into an average girl (which she was) the film would have been even more realistic.

Her beauty was sometimes distracting. But you know, that is minor criticism.

[Balschoiw 0]

Albert, Albert, Albert....

Are you so hormone driven atm ?  

Here is how she looked in 1943, photographed by Leni Riefenstahl´s still photographer on the terrasse of the Berchtesgaden´s eagles nest. I suggest this book to everyone. It´s a great read. This lady who died 2 years ago really had a story to tell. Great read.

[-33ker 0]

One of my friends bought this book in Peenemünde after he watched the movie with me. It shows very well how close the movie was to Traudl Junge's memories of the last few days in the Führerbunker.

[Blake 0]

Just saw the movie when it premiered here and I must say it was indeed very good portrayal of last days of the Reich. It had none of the wooden acting, stiffness or over-the-top events in which so many dramas portraying powerful historical figures fall into. The atmosphere in the bunker could be felt and I found myself hoping the Red Army would advance faster to end the maddness although it also meant suffering for thousands of German women.

By the way, there's interesting article here how Bruno Ganz trained for the role with the help of a tape recorded in secret when Hitler visited Finland in June 1942 to congratule his-then ally Marshall Mannerheim for his birthday. It is the only tape in existence where Hitler is speaking in private, in non-public appearance. Surprsing to me at least and a bit chilling since he's mostly known just for his fanatical speeches.

EDIT: here's the link to the entire recording of private talks between Hitler, Mannerheim & representatives of finnish Govenrment (realaudio).

http://ra.yle.fi/ramgen/multifoorumi/arkki/040310_01_05.ra

Sound quality is surprisingly good I think...

Our German-speakers on this forum naturally get the most out of it.  

[deathsai 0]

Although I know that it is not centered around the actual fighting in Berlin, the Flak 88 manned by Hitler Youth will probably have some good action. Not only that, but seeing children, young and innocent looking, fighting in the last days of a lost war, will make a massive statement that isn't combat-related.

[der bastler 0]

EDIT: here's the link to the entire recording of private talks between Hitler, Mannerheim & representatives of finnish Govenrment (realaudio).

http://ra.yle.fi/ramgen/multifoorumi/arkki/040310_01_05.ra

Is there a non-realaudio version available? Did a quick search but found nothing...

Der Untergang wins Oscar nomination:

http://www.reuters.com/printer....7429649

http://imdb.com/features/rto/2005/oscars

[Blake 0]

I can make you mp3 version (or somebody else) when I get back later...

[EiZei 0]

So, anybody got an english transcript for that conversation or at least tell me which one of those voices is hitler.

[feersum.endjinn 6]

"Der Führer is out of water melons and presses Finnish troops to attack Soviet agricultural areas more vigorously."

[Blake 0]

Finnish Radio Documentary on the Hitler Visit 1942 amd secretly recorded discussion in mp3 format (Finnish narrator voice-over): http://koti.mbnet.fi/~tkwok/aatu.mp3 (ca.40mb).

What the tape reveals in essence Hitler as a man with clear and humble strategic visions of the ongoing war on the with detailed knowledge of military issues at that point. He also talks how Winter War gave Germans false impression about Russian determination and that Soviets had learned much since then. Not in any point does he give any overconfident assessment of the Eastern Front. Mannerheim only asks few questions on the tape and the whole 11 minutes is mostly hitler explaining the war affairs, Mannerheim only speaks on couple of occasions.

[Blake 0]

OK I've got the recording of Hitler's secret discussions with Mannerheim over here in mp3 format:

http://koti.welho.com/amustone/temp/secret_hitler_recording_1942.mp3 (ca.11 minutes, 10mb)

[der bastler 0]

Thank you very much indeed!

Compared to the official speeches Hitler gave this seems to be a totally different man. So "normal" (regarding the form, not the content).

*shivers*

Spooky. That's the "slobbering monster"?

[Albert Schweitzer 10]

After having watched "der Untergang" and having being highly impressed by the quality of the film I went for another one that came out this month. It is called Napola and tells the story of a teen and hiscareer in one of the famous elite Nazi-schools. All in all I was somewhat dissapointed, but the movie itself is not bad.

Excellent choice of actors

Perfect Acting

Very realistic athmosphere

Nice short-stories

but the overall plot of the film is rather flat and stereotypical. If you want to know more about it before watching it, then tell me.

Find some images here

http://www.film.de/movieimages.php/id/2273/

[Thunderbird 0]

this film gives a humanistic apparence to Hitler, it shows how was the man, and not how was the dictator... he doesn't deserve this humanism

[Albert Schweitzer 10]

this film gives a humanistic apparence to Hitler, it shows how was the man, and not how was the dictator... he doesn't deserve this humanism

maybe he doesnt deserve it, but future generations deserve to understand that after all humans are able to do these things...

Mass-murderer dont wear horns and have gleaming red eyes. The perversion is hidden inside... it isnt that easy to prevent the history from happening again..

[quicksand 0]

Completly agree,Albert.It's easy to brush aside Hitler as an anomaly and demonize him but in the end as shocking as the statement might seem he is a good example of the diversity of the civillised human.

Certain circumstances were necesary to help the rise of such a person,the society we live in,our education and events we get to see define the person we are.Had Hitler been borned in an underdeveloped third world african country I kindly doubt he would have left such a tragic legacy of pain and sorrow upon humanity and be fingered out as the worst criminal of the 20th century.

Unless you are a religious person,there is also no fountain of universal wisdom and truth that can not be questioned.We create our own values based on what we experience.He definetly was not a socipath more over delusional for his idealisation of the aryan male physique(being himself deficient in it's features) and deeming anything that differs as subhuman.

I think this quote comes to hand to in part explain his downfal and source of his madness.

"He was a man consumed with the emotions most of us prize as among the noblest that can propel and direct a human life. And these intense dedications were married with the most remarkable gifts of intuition, motivational powers, destiny planning and public speaking ('He filled me with the enthusiasms of life.' -Speer). He also had a lot of good luck in his crazy plans that he counted as Providential hoverings. The good luck produced stupid pride -- the fatal hubris. When a ball-player's single is stretched into a double by skillful base-running, and then a triple by an off-target throw from the out-fielder, it is only vain and stupid pride that tries to convert every other double into an inside-the-park home-run. "

Need I even remember that for a criminal dictator very similar in proportion thousands have crushed eachother to have a final glance at him,tens of millions mourned him and in present statues of him are re-errected and he still creates a deep nostalgia feeling upon the population.

[der bastler 0]

this film gives a humanistic apparence to Hitler, it shows how was the man, and not how was the dictator... he doesn't deserve this humanism

Hitler was just a man. It is easy to blame 60 million casualties on a non-human monster, but he was human. No godlike creature, as the SS used to look at him. No satan from hell. Just the guy next door. And that's were the story gets nasty. He gave orders, many helpers executed orders. To prevent the repetition of '33-'45 you have to see this concept. Few give commands, many execute commands, inbetween ethics are dumped in the trash bin. Perhaps the next dictator will not create a cult of his person. I you only look for the "official" inhuman monster you might just miss the real one...

Plus, with growing distance to the Third Reich the myths will get thicker and thicker. If one marks Hitler as a non-human bastard dictator from hell, it will attract people. Similar to the Nazi UFOs, Nazi Secret Weapons, Nazi relicts etc.

That's wrong. Denazify means demystify.