Goodspeed 0 Posted September 2, 2004 Thank you Sputnik Monroe. You are the man. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Chill 0 Posted September 2, 2004 If some invades your country and you fight back are you a terrorist? What would you do if your family were killed by russian/USA soldiers? Would you just accept the russians/USA and say " great they invaded our country to bring deomcracy?" The russians invaded cheniya like the usa invade iraq! And both of them invaded for the same reason OIL!! But i guess its a waste of time telling you guys some "Facts" as most of you here are to young to know any better. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
theavonlady 2 Posted September 2, 2004 Chechnya has been part of Russia since 1859. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
soul_assassin 1723 Posted September 2, 2004 If some invades your country and you fight back are you a terrorist? What would you do if your family were killed by russian/USA soldiers? Would you just accept the russians/USA and say " great they invaded our country to bring deomcracy?"The russians invaded cheniya like the usa invade iraq! And both of them invaded for the same reason OIL!! But i guess its a waste of time telling you guys some "Facts" as most of you here are to young to know any better. thats ignorant. Obviously u have no clue on the subject so please refrain from commenting on it. U see today there is Chechniya, and they live happily, they want to rebuild their region and be like everyone else. They are tired of war and dont want to fight. And there is also this group of a couple of 1000ds of people who want to install their own government. And war has been proven quite profitable for them from foreign investors. And yes there is OIL in Chechniya but hardly enough to invade for. Russia has more than enough reserves of oil and natural gas in other regions. Edit: ******Latest news******* //////////////////////////////// last count suggests 354 hostages still inside, biggest percentage is children. still no demands made. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
cobra@pulse 0 Posted September 2, 2004 Just read this, I truley hate people such as this that think they can even get what they want by commiting acts of terrorism. How can they be given freedom if they cant even conrol themselves now. I think that people who take pitty to these fighters inside the school are as sick as they are!  Quote[/b] ]Talks begin in school siege dramaFamilies are facing an agonising wait for news  The Russian authorities have held talks with an armed group who are holding hundreds of people hostage at a school in North Ossetia. The hostage takers want Russian troops to leave Chechnya and the release of Chechen rebels held in Ingushetia. At least 200 people, many of them children, were seized on Wednesday at the school in Beslan in North Ossetia. The UN Security Council - at a meeting on Wednesday - condemned the hostage takers "in the strongest terms". The 15-member council demanded "the immediate and unconditional release of all hostages of the terrorist attack", at a session requested by Moscow. Distraught families A BBC correspondent in Beslan says that families there got little sleep overnight, waiting near the school and hoping for news of their children. REPORTED DEMANDS -Release of fighters from Ingushetia prisons -Withdrawal of -Russian troops from Chechnya -Negotiations with top regional officials Rebels' hostage history Chechen terror haunts Russia  Doctors and emergency teams are on stand-by, and the streets surrounding the school have been sealed off by soldiers and police. "Let them go, they have nothing to do with it, they are not to blame," said one woman. "Let us replace our children." The attackers are believed to have laid trip wires, saying they will blow up the school if stormed by police. "They have said that for every fighter wiped out, they will kill 50 children, and for every fighter wounded, 20," North Ossetia's Interior Minister Kazbek Dzantiev was quoted by Reuters as saying. There is confusion over the exact number of hostages, but Mr Dzantiev said probably between 300 and 400 people were inside. The authorities say they believe the children's condition to be satisfactory. The school crisis came a day after a suspected suicide bombing in Moscow killed 10 people. Last week the mid-air explosions of two passenger planes left 89 dead. New year The Russian authorities are blaming what they call international terrorism, with suspicion falling on Chechen separatists, who have been fighting for independence from Moscow for the past decade. Chechen rebel leader Aslan Maskhadov has denied that his forces are involved in the siege. Wednesday was the start of the school term for millions of children across Russia, and parents also attend what is traditionally a day of celebration. Masked men and women, wearing bomb belts, burst into the school, whose pupils are aged seven to 18, at around 0930 local time (0530 GMT). Up to 50 children were reported to have escaped in the confusion. But several people, all adults, were said to have died as a result of the attack. Russian President Vladimir Putin broke off a working holiday to return to Moscow to deal with the crisis. The US called the siege "callous", and President George W Bush offered "support in any form", according to the Kremlin. Correspondents say the siege bears the hallmarks of Chechen rebels. They have a history of taking hostages to draw international attention to their independence demands - the most notorious incident being the Moscow theatre siege in 2002, which led to the deaths of 129 hostages. Here is a list of all the recent attacks: 31 Aug 2004 - Suicide bomb kills 10 at north Moscow train station. 24 Aug 2004 - Two planes crash after leaving same Moscow airport, killing 89. May 2004 - Chechen president killed in blast at stadium in Grozny. Feb 2004 - Bomb attack kills at least 39 people on Moscow underground. Dec 2003 - Female suicide bomber kills five near Red Square. This cant go on anylonger! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
gandalf the white 0 Posted September 2, 2004 perhaps the bandits have some anti chemical suits also? Its not too hard to get this kind of stuff... I just hope for the best. I really hope the kids can be saved can be saved... the bandits have dogs to snuff out the nerve agent , so when the dogs act suspicous (wow, could they just be hungry?) they set off the explosives... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
theavonlady 2 Posted September 2, 2004 perhaps the bandits have some anti chemical suits also? Its not too hard to get this kind of stuff... I just hope for the best. I really hope the kids can be saved can be saved... the bandits have dogs to snuff out the nerve agent , so when the dogs act suspicous (wow, could they just be hungry?) they set off the explosives... Â That might be good for food tasting but whatever the dogs breathe in from the air is what the terrorists will breathe in at the same time. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Tigershark_BAS 0 Posted September 2, 2004 Quote[/b] ]I hope the russians learnt humility since their last rescue mission. No, they learned not to use that particular kind of gas in a hostage situation. Actually m21man..this may not be entirely true. On BBC World last night they interviewed a russian mil analyst from the Carnegie center in Moscow. I recall him saying something like the commandos performed brilliantly...problem was the logistics let them down. The logistics people failed to plan enough and a lot of people died because they didn't have enough antitode on hand for the gas and they couldn't move them quick enough to medical facilities for treatment from the effects of the gas. Surprised the hell out of me because I thought they botched the rescue attempt. The analyst said they performed very well however. He also said he still didn't believe logistics had been improved....so you are probably right...they won't use that gas again if for no other reason than it would be a political nightmare for Putin if something went from it again. I would seriously hate to be Putin at the moment...what a decision...to have the blood of young children on your hands if you don't give into terrorists. Of course I would hate even more to be a hostage or a parent in this situation even more. Watching this on TV last night I thought of Rainbow 6 the Tom Clancy novel. This would be exactly one of those situations for a multi national anti terrorist squad. Amazing how some of Clancy's books slowly begin to mimic reality. Global terrorism becoming everyone's problem...including once enemy USA and Russia. I don't think this will lead to the creation of a Rainbow 6 but I found it interesting how this event made me recall it given the incredible security threat Russians face now. Must be very unnerving for many Russians....I hope Putin can inspire more confidence that he is taking steps to protect his people. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Placebo 28 Posted September 2, 2004 There was a documentary on British TV, something like "Terror at the theatre" or something along those lines, very good docu, showed a lot of the footage during the siege, inside and out, as well as footage after the siege, it seems to me at least that the operation to end it was 100% perfect up until the point where they started bringing people out, then it was abysmal, people unconscious were laid on their backs in driving rain and drowned, etc. etc. Edit: I think it was this one http://www.hbo.com/docs/programs/terror_in_moscow/synopsis.html Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
theavonlady 2 Posted September 2, 2004 I would seriously hate to be Putin at the moment...what a decision...to have the blood of young children on your hands if you don't give into terrorists. I know what you meant to say but if any person is harmed, the blood will not be on Putin's hands. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Longinius 1 Posted September 2, 2004 Quote[/b] ]That might be good for food tasting but whatever the dogs breathe in from the air is what the terrorists will breathe in at the same time. They just need a couple of terrorists in gasmaks or bio/chem suits to get around that problem. As soon as he sees his friends starting to drop, he starts to push buttons... Game over. I dont think gas is an option this time. It worked last time because it was unexpected. This time, they could be prepared for it. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
theavonlady 2 Posted September 2, 2004 They're blowing up the school! edit: update http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tm....seizure Quote[/b] ]Explosions Rock Seized Russian School 15 minutes ago BESLAN, Russia - Two explosions rocked the area around a school where heavily armed militants, some strapped with bombs, were holed up for a second day Thursday with about 350 hostages in southern Russia. The explosions came about 10 minutes apart, from the vicinity of the cordoned-off school, followed by a cloud of black smoke. No further details were available. The cause of the explosions was not clear. Earlier on Thursday, Valery Andreyev, the Federal Security Service's chief in North Ossetia, seemed to rule out the immediate use of force. "There is no alternative to dialogue," the ITAR-Tass news agency quoted him as saying. "One should expect long and tense negotiations," the Federal Security Service official was quoted as saying. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ironsight 1 Posted September 2, 2004 They're blowing up the school!edit: update http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tm....seizure Quote[/b] ]Explosions Rock Seized Russian School 15 minutes ago  BESLAN, Russia - Two explosions rocked the area around a school where heavily armed militants, some strapped with bombs, were holed up for a second day Thursday with about 350 hostages in southern Russia. The explosions came about 10 minutes apart, from the vicinity of the cordoned-off school, followed by a cloud of black smoke. No further details were available. The cause of the explosions was not clear. Earlier on Thursday, Valery Andreyev, the Federal Security Service's chief in North Ossetia, seemed to rule out the immediate use of force. "There is no alternative to dialogue," the ITAR-Tass news agency quoted him as saying. "One should expect long and tense negotiations," the Federal Security Service official was quoted as saying. But the seizure is still going on Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bn880 5 Posted September 2, 2004 Unfortunately, besides talks or a major lack of explosives/skills of the hostage takers, I don't see how they can save/rescue these people. Gas my ass, not this time, children won't be taking gas too well, especially if the ywant to knock them out as fast as in the theatre.... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Winters 1 Posted September 2, 2004 If some invades your country and you fight back are you a terrorist? What would you do if your family were killed by russian/USA soldiers? Would you just accept the russians/USA and say " great they invaded our country to bring deomcracy?"The russians invaded cheniya like the usa invade iraq! And both of them invaded for the same reason OIL!! But i guess its a waste of time telling you guys some "Facts" as most of you here are to young to know any better. When you start taking kids (the most defenseless) hostage you are no longer a freedom fighter you are a common thug/terrorist. The same goes for when you start bombing them, you are no longer "Liberators". If for instance Russia invaded the USA and killed my daughter i would not hunt down russian children i would hunt down russian soldiers. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bn880 5 Posted September 2, 2004 I don't think we should be discussing what each of us would do, they are who tehy are and this is what they're doing, that's what's important. Personally I would most likely give them the 24 prisonners, I have no idea how they plan to escape and if they will release all the hostages in the end. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
theavonlady 2 Posted September 2, 2004 Quote[/b] ]26 women and children freed in Beslan - headquartersBESLAN. Sep 2 (Interfax) - According to the latest data, the first group of hostages that were freed in Beslan included 26 women and children, the hostage operation's headquarters told Interfax on Thursday. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
theavonlady 2 Posted September 2, 2004 A Russian police officer carries a released baby from the school seized by heavily armed masked men and women in the town of Beslan in the province of North Ossetia near Chechnya on September 2, 2004. An armed gang, holding hundreds of people hostage in a Russian school, freed four infants and at least two women. (Viktor Korotayev/Reuters) Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Badgerboy 0 Posted September 2, 2004 I know which picture is going to be stuck all over the papers tomorrow. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DarkLight 0 Posted September 2, 2004 It's scary to see that the violence is spreading out all over the world... In the end, we dumb fucked up humans will just nuke ourselves to pieces. One gigantic suicide... gotta love it! Goddamn i fucking hate this world Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SpongeBob 0 Posted September 2, 2004 http://us.news2.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/p/nm/20040902/mdf684506.jpgA Russian police officer carries a released baby from the school seized by heavily armed masked men and women in the town of Beslan in the province of North Ossetia near Chechnya on September 2, 2004. An armed gang, holding hundreds of people hostage in a Russian school, freed four infants and at least two women. (Viktor Korotayev/Reuters) Reminds me of the picture of a fireman holding the baby after the Oklahoma City bombing. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ironsight 1 Posted September 2, 2004 http://us.news2.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/p/nm/20040902/mdf684506.jpg Doesn't the child left behind the soldier wear any clothes or is it just me If so: What's the meaning of that? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Placebo 28 Posted September 2, 2004 Could be any of a number of things, scared child soiled itself, Soldiers concerned about boobie traps, who knows Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ironsight 1 Posted September 2, 2004 Could be any of a number of things, scared child soiled itself, Soldiers concerned about boobie traps, who knows  Got raped by some sick rebel  (this happens alot) Don't get me wrong it could be numerous of other things. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Placebo 28 Posted September 2, 2004 The situation is concerning and passionate enough without making up twisted scenarios, let's stick to discussing actual news instead. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites