International Politics Thread

[NurEinMensch 0]

I voted liberal, but I would not do that in national elections, as the FDP is indeed some kind of joke.

[Apollo 0]

I voted far left (marxists) for the local ellections and christian Democrats for Europe.Personally i'm not a commie or true marxist ,i'm rather left than far left ,but in Belgium the Green party is Centre-left rather than left ,and ill rather vote far left than centre left.I voted Christian Democrats for E.U because they have some very able candidate's for Europe.

[EiZei 0]

Weird, participation went to 41% from 31% despite the general feeling of apathy I have seen.

No surprise results here though.

[-33ker 0]

Looks like the Christian Democrats have got the most German seats.

The current statistics from Germany 21:34 are:

Union (CDU & CSU, Christian Democratic): 44,9% [-3,8%] 49 seats (of 99, 50 seats are required for a total majority)

SPD (Social Democratic): 21,8% [-8,9%] 24 seats

Grüne (Greens): 11,6% [+5,2%] 13 seats

PDS (Socialist): 6,3% [+0,5%] 7 seats

FDP (Liberal): 6,1% [+3,1%] 6 seats

Others: 9,3%

participation was 32,6%

Now you have your German liberals in the EU parliament Denoir.  

[Longinius 1]

Elections nowadays are worse than the soaps on TV.

Hardly any people bother. Established parties try to use their influence to keep smaller parties out of the debate. The bills / voting slips of certain parties are hidden, removed or never even allowed to be placed at the election offices.

Its pathetic. I voted Fp but with entire generations of S-drones, what does it matter? I hate people voting based on habit and tradition and not party line and facts...

[ran 0]

42,6 % Left, 38,3% Right

(from extreme left to extreme right)

<span style='color:red'>LO-LCR</span> 2,6% (0 to 1 seat)

<span style='color:red'>PCF</span> 5,3% (2 to 4 seats)

<span style='color:pink'>PS</span> 29,5% (28 to 30 seats)

<span style='color:green'>les Verts</span> 7,3% (4 to 6 seats)

-

<span style='color:grey'>UDF</span> 12% (9 to 11 seats)

-

<span style='color:blue'>UMP</span> 16,8% (16 to 18 seats)

<span style='color:purple'>Philippe de Villiers</span> 7% (4 to 6 seats)

<span style='color:purple'>Charles Pasqua</span> 1,7% (0 seats)

<span style='color:orange'>Chasse-Pęche-Nature et Traditions</span> 1,8% (0 seats)

<span style='color:brown'>FN</span> 10% (7 to 9 seats)

<span style='color:brown'>MNR</span> 0,3%. (0 seats)

% of votes :

PS, 29,5%

UMP, 16,8%

UDF, 12%

FN, 10%

les Verts, 7,3%

Philippe de Villiers, 7%

PCF 5,3%

LO-LCR 2,6%

Chasse-Pęche-Nature et Traditions, 1,8%

Charles Pasqua, 1,7%

MNR, 0,3%.

not the final results

with an abstention of 56.5%

last updated sheet for the number of seats per party :

- <span style='color:pink'>Parti socialiste</span> 31

- <span style='color:blue'>UMP</span> 18

- <span style='color:brown'>Front national</span> 8

- <span style='color:grey'>UDF</span> 8

- <span style='color:green'>Verts</span> 5

- <span style='color:purple'>Liste Philippe de Villiers</span> 5

- <span style='color:red'>Parti communiste</span> 3

- <span style='color:orange'>Chasse, Pęche, Nature et Tradition</span> 0

- <span style='color:red'>LO-LCR</span> 0

- <span style='color:purple'>Liste Charles Pasqua</span> 0

- <span style='color:brown'>MNR</span> 0

<span style='color:red'>extreme left</span>

<span style='color:pink'>left</span>

<span style='color:grey'>centrists</span>

<span style='color:blue'>right</span>

<span style='color:purple'>souverainists</span>

<span style='color:orange'>people messing around shooting birds and people from the green party</span>

<span style='color:brown'>extreme right</span>

[-33ker 0]

That's the same problem we have in Germany. Most of the elder people over 60 are always voting for the Christian Democrats, just out of habit!

The old farts just say: "You cannot vote for those bloody socialists and hippies(SPD,Greens) they only want to overthrow everything and don't know how to behave as responsible politicians!"

And now guess which group of the population vote regularly? The old! That's why we have a majority of Christian Democrats now.

[denoir 0]

Its pathetic. I voted Fp but with entire generations of S-drones, what does it matter?

Yeah. Personally I find Junilistan more disturbing. They don't have a party program apart from not to the Euro and no to the proposed constitution, something that the EP has no say on.

Anyway, the Swedish votes have now been fully counted:

In terms of MEP:s

<table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0"><tr><td>Code Sample </td></tr><tr><td id="CODE">

Party                                                   Seats    Change

Moderata Samlingspartiet                           4   -1

Centerpartiet                                            1    0

Folkpartiet liberalerna                                2   -1

Kristdemokraterna                                     1   -1

Arbetarepartiet-Socialdemokraterna             5   -1

Vänsterpartiet                                           2   -1

Miljöpartiet de gröna                                  1   -1

Junilistan                                                  3   +3

In terms of European Parties:

<table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0"><tr><td>Code Sample </td></tr><tr><td id="CODE">

EPP            5    -2            (Conservatives/Christan demo..)

ELDR           3   -1            (Liberals)

ESP            5   -1             (Socialists)

GUE            2   -1             (Communists/nordic green)

EFA            1   -1             (Green party)

IND            3   +3             (Independent/anti EU)

If you are wondering how it doesn't add up with the changes - it's because of the expansion. Sweden has now 19 MEPs instead of 22 that we had before.

Oh, well, at least we didn't get any extremists. Also our loss of one ELDR seat is more than compensated by the 6 seats provided by Germany.

What I'm not happy about is the Front National and similar right wing extremists getting seats. Also disturbing elements as the UKIP are not exactly good for the EP to work smoothly.

Edit: Participation was 37% which was an all-time low for Sweden. In regular parliamentary elections we have on average about 75-80% participation.

[Apollo 0]

A problem that is very present in the Belgian political landscape ,and i do not doubt other country's as well ,is that politic's is "aging" ,and there is few young blood with fresh idea's to take the scepter over.

Ellectoraly ,people of my generation (20-30) have few influence in politics.In Belgium ,and many other European country's ,there is a far larger mass of people of the "after-war generation" than there are of any other generation.In most West European country's after WWII there was an large baby boom that graduatly in the 50's and 60's decreased again and stabilized later to an an average of birth's about equal to death's.Now however ,due to it's demographic volume this after-war generation is ellectorally very powerfull ,so much in fact that politic's is mostly geared to the disire's of that generation.Furthermore people of that generation are far more established in the political and economical life than younger people.

In Belgium there is a sickening evolution of important Politician's sons or daughter's getting blitz carreer's in politic's most notably about always in the same party of their father.They are plentifull on the voter's list these politician's offspring ,10 to 20% of the local ellection's list if i might guess ,and their are few young politician's that are not offspring of established politician's ,i would guess that of politician's in the age range of 20-30 years 70 are offspring of other politician's .Furthermore it has proven that such offspring are in majority lightweight's ,and are often promoted in politics based on pure looks and poppularity rather than merrit.Yes having a few babes in politics is a nice change to ,but plz don't give them any important position's.

If people of my generation must vote (we are forced to vote in Belgium) ,what must they look after for an alternative? Most of the young men in politics are at most ellectoral puppet's of the established politician's and they mostly represent the broad mass.

[denoir 0]

Well, the final breakdown is in:

Before:

After:

Quote[/b] ]EPP-ED: European People's Party-European Democrats (Centre-Right)

PES: Party of European Socialists (Socialists)

ELDR: European Liberal, Democrat and Reform Party (Liberals)

EUL/NGL: European United Left / Nordic Green Left (Far Left)

Greens/EFA: Greens / European Free Alliance (Greens and regionalists / nationalists)

IND: Independents, not attached to any group

UEN: Union for Europe of the Nations (Right wing / Gaullists)

EDD: Europe of Democracies and Diversities (Eurosceptics)

The liberals had before  8% and now have 9%. So at least the ones I voted for went forward. As for the balance, I don't think anything has changed. The major right-left blocks seem to remain. The UEN/UDD/Independents may be many, but it is unlikely that they will ever agree on anything between the blocks.

The ultra right wing (UEN, EDD) have actually lost seats so overall, that's good.

Bottom line I can't say that I'm too excited about the results, but that it could have been worse.

The really bad things is the turnout, which is an embarrasement for Europe.

In Sweden we had a 38% turnout which is the lowest in any election since we first got full voting rights for everybody, more than a century ago.

[Monkey Lib Front 10]

i think UK turnout was 40% which is a vast improvement.

[EiZei 0]

http://politics.guardian.co.uk/electio....00.html

Quote[/b] ]

Kilroy-Silk vows to 'wreck' EU

Matthew Tempest, political correspondent

Monday June 14, 2004

New Ukip MEP for the East Midlands, Robert Kilroy-Silk. Photo: PA.

A triumphant Robert Kilroy-Silk today said he was determined to use his new job as an MEP to "wreck" the European parliament, as he celebrated the 12-seat breakthrough won by the UK Independence party.

With the rejectionist Ukip beating the Liberal Democrats to third place with an average 16% of the vote, Mr Kilroy-Silk said he expected the Conservatives to shift to a far more hard-line Eurosceptic stance following his party's spectacular gains in the European elections.

Ukip quadrupled its representation in the European parliament in Thursday's election, seizing a dozen seats when results were announced last night.

The Conservative party saw its support fall 10 points to 27%, increasing pressure on its leader, Michael Howard, from Eurosceptics within his party who fear Ukip will make inroads into their support in the upcoming general election.

But it was also a woeful night for Labour, which picked up just 23% of the vote - its worst result since at least 1918.

In Scotland, Labour lost one of its existing Scottish MEPs, although the Greens, the Scottish Socialist party and Ukip all failed to make their hoped-for breakthough north of the border. The SNP's hopes of big advances were severely dented by only managing to retain its two MEPs.

Results are still awaited from Northern Ireland.

This morning Downing Street reacted to the massive upsurge in the Eurosceptic vote with a plea for a "rational debate" on Britain's future in the EU.

Ahead of a private meeting between Tony Blair and the parliamentary Labour party this afternoon - where the leader will attempt to bolster fractured morale among his MPs - the prime minister's official spokesman said this morning: "The prime minister recognises that there are those who are sceptical about the benefits of Europe and therefore the government needs to argue the case."

Mr Blair will travel to Brussels later in the week for final negotiations on the EU constitution - opposed by both Ukip and the Tories.

With all results for England and Wales in, the Liberal Democrats were forced into fourth place by Ukip, despite their vote edging up two points to 15%.

Results for Northern Ireland, where Sinn Féin is predicted to gain its first EU representative, are expected later today.

But at a celebratory press conference this morning, attended by most of their new MEPs, Ukip promised to take the fight to the forthcoming Westminster byelection in Leicester, and to the referendum on the constitution and the general election - both likely next year.

Asked what his intentions were for his new job in the European parliament, Mr Kilroy-Silk - elected for the East Midlands with 26% of the vote - said simply "to wreck it".

He added: "We want to expose its waste, its corruption and its erosion of our sovereignty."

He called Ukip's victory a "massive sea-change" in British politics - hardly an understatement in view of the party's historic breakthrough and its likely impact on any referendum on the proposed EU constitution.

I would be putting a "head banging on the wall"-smiley here if this board had one.

[HotShot 0]

It's kinda embarrasing that UKIP got so many seats When Kilroy was asked what they were gonna do with the EU he said "wreck it", so a nice man... At least the BNP didn't get much. (i think)

EDIT: I dunno if this is on this thread already, but the Conservatives (as much as i hate them) have a good slogan: "UKIP if you want to, but we'd rather stay aware of Europe" (or something along those lines, and 'Kip', as in sleep.)

[EiZei 0]

It's kinda embarrasing that UKIP got so many seats When Kilroy was asked what they were gonna do with the EU he said "wreck it", so a nice man... At least the BNP didn't get much. (i think)

If I recall correctly they didnt get a single one.

[Postduifje 0]

turnouts Slovakia 16.6%

That's just sad . Here in the Netherlands it was a bit below 40, which still isn't much, but atleast 10% above the 1999 elections.

edit: nevermind the turnout in Ireland, I heared it wrong, it was Slovakia but it were Irish statistics

[der bastler 0]

That's the same problem we have in Germany. Most of the elder people over 60 are always voting for the Christian Democrats, just out of habit!

The old farts just say: "You cannot vote for those bloody socialists and hippies(SPD,Greens) they only want to overthrow everything and don't know how to behave as responsible politicians!"

And now guess which group of the population vote regularly? The old! That's why we have a majority of Christian Democrats now.

Nah, it's not very social what the SPD is representing this days. They must get rid of Schröder (as the CDU must get rid of Koch, Stoiber and Merkel), imo there are better social democrats.

And the liberals in Germany named FPD --party of neocons and opportunists... no chance!

PDS (the party known as SED in GDR days) --they were very calm these days.

Other parties? Not really...

Remains: Greens and Black (CDU) -> throw the dice...

Welcome to the Federal Republic of Germany. Or as the german abbreviation translates: BRD -- Bananen Republik Deutschland (Banana Republic of Germany)

[vektorboson 8]

And the liberals in Germany named FPD --party of neocons and opportunists... no chance!

If the FDP actually sticked to their program and didn't always bow to their coalition partner, then they'd be a nice party. That's the problem with the FDP:

They only argument with economy and tax policy in the public, not about liberal ideas, and they often enough bow before the bigger parties.

[der bastler 0]

They only argument with economy and tax policy in the public, not about liberal ideas, and they often enough bow before the bigger parties.

That's their problem, exactly.

But I favour Black-Green, we just have to remove certain Spitzenpolitiker...

E.g. Wulff is doing a good job as well as some local greens...

[Ex-RoNiN 0]

The problem with Germany is that the Opposition does not understand that Opposition does not mean "opposed to the governing party"

Although other countries have this problem too

[-33ker 0]

Nah, it's not very social what the SPD is representing this days. They must get rid of Schröder (as the CDU must get rid of Koch, Stoiber and Merkel), imo there are better social democrats.

I think the Union would have done almost the same things as Grün-Rot did. Their alternative concepts wouldn't hurt a smuch as Schröder's reforms, but these radical steps have to be taken! And don't forget who ruined Germany, Schwarz-Gelb! Schröder just came in to pick up the shattered pieces of our social system!

[mr reality 0]

IMHO two party politics ruins the way countrys are run.Money is spent (and waisted) on expensive election broadcasts and two or more people for one position.More time is actually spent trying to out do one another than running the actual country.And the opposition just disagree with the present government anyway.So its all a load of Bull Shit.They all make the same mistakes over and over again.Maybe thats just the way British Politics is run but i very much doubt it..All politicians are just greedy fat cats in disguise.They only take on the job to line there own pockets...

*Steps off soap box*

[der bastler 0]

And don't forget who ruined Germany, Schwarz-Gelb! Schröder just came in to pick up the shattered pieces of our social system!

Yes, but remember the 90s --Red-Green dominated the Bundestag and blocked projects which they now have put on their "Agenda". Great! We could have had this earlier, but it was "by the wrong party". And now: We could have it now, but it is?... right, "by the wrong party".

Other example for this "opposition game": Lower Saxony. Last decade ruled and ruined by Red, now Black has to pick up the shattered pieces while the red opposition is crying "Uh, this is not social. Uh, that's not right!".

And this game goes on and on and on and on and on and on...

And if you try to change something, e.g. in a Ortsrat you'll encounter the really solid structures of political parties. Not good.

My suggestion: Let's put another option on the ballot:

<table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0"><tr><td>Code Sample </td></tr><tr><td id="CODE">

[ X ] Nothing mentioned above (i.e. I can't vote any of them)

If the proportion of "Nothing mentioned above" is greater than 50% the election has to be repeated --with other programs/persons/whatever. Otherwise "nothing mentioned above" counts as a NULL party, i.e. some seats remain empty...

[IsthatyouJohnWayne 0]

der bastler- Hahaha, great idea, and within fifty years we have an empty parliament. That would certainly cut corruption and waste.

Happily even though the BNP were right at the top of my ballot paper (the first party listed), and got hundreds of thousands of votes in one or two Euro-regions here, they didnt win a single seat, unlike Frances National Front (also the italian 'post fascists', its a disgrace to have fascists in the EP).

Denoir-

Quote[/b] ]Also disturbing elements as the UKIP are not exactly good for the EP to work smoothly.

No, but by being uncompromising theres always a chance they (and other 'euroskeptic' parties in the EP) might actually deliver the kind of reform and streamlining some who voted for them must have hoped (and in my view there is certainly a need for such reform), perhaps by some shocking of the system into change. Unlikely perhaps but possible at least.

[denoir 0]

unlike Frances National Front (also the italian 'post fascists', its a disgrace to have fascists in the EP).

Yes, both Front National as well as their Italian counterparts are a disgrace to both Europe as well as their countries of origin.

Quote[/b] ]Denoir-

Quote[/b] ]Also disturbing elements as the UKIP are not exactly good for the EP to work smoothly.

No, but by being uncompromising theres always a chance they (and other 'euroskeptic' parties in the EP) might actually deliver the kind of reform and streamlining some who voted for them must have hoped (and in my view there is certainly a need for such reform), perhaps by some shocking of the system into change. Unlikely perhaps but possible at least.

Except for a slight problem: the EP does not have anything to do with membership issues. So the parties that have profiled themselves on the issue of leaving the EU won't be able to do anything about it in the EP. So the only thing they can do is obstruct any work being done. And gridlocking the EP isn't going to help anybody. Due to the tight integration, a paralyzed EP might very well result in paralyzed national parliaments. People who want their country out of the EU (or less integration) should vote so in their national elections.

[-33ker 0]

Other example for this "opposition game": Lower Saxony. Last decade ruled and ruined by Red, now Black has to pick up the shattered pieces while the red opposition is crying "Uh, this is not social. Uh, that's not right!".

And this game goes on and on and on and on and on and on...

You're right on that one. The big "Volksparteien" are destroying the people's will to participate in politics.

People are fed up with all that shit and quit going to elections! Not good for democracy at all!