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denoir

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ran-

Quote[/b] ]I thought about voting for the Communist party since daddy was a commie ( ) and their TV spot looked nice (I liked the song in it... just kidding, there are much more better reasons in my mind than that).

Smashing capitalism perhaps? tounge_o.gif

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Bordoy-

Quote[/b] ]So your racist

Yes Bordoy im a racist. Well done. Perhaps the Mods will ban me for my blatant racist leanings.

Quote[/b] ]I've never read anything about whites being attacked

You dont read newspapers eh?

Quote[/b] ]"Also your going on about terroists now, which i didn't know Nick Griffin had any connections with. Maybe the wrong Mr Griffin."

You mean they dont mention it in their leaflet campaign (*runs and checks BNP leaflet*)? Hey they dont at that, i must say im shocked!

Yes it must another Nick Griffin who probably leads another BNP (the Bad Naturist Party perhaps... dont tell me you havent heard of them either!), thats the only rational explanation.

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I still dont know who im going to vote for at the EP level. Maybe ill discount those i dont want to vote for and play 'eeny meemy miney moe' with the rest..

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BNP: Under the Skin [bBC]

Griffin Bio:

Quote[/b] ]

Biography

Griffin comes from a wealthy family with a history of involvement in right-wing politics. His father, Edgar, was a longstanding member of the Conservative party, but was expelled in August 2001 over his links with the BNP.

Griffin's sister stood as an NF candidate in a Suffolk county council election. His mother is the administration secretary of the BNP and was a candidate at the 2001 general election.

Edgar Griffin took his son to his first National Front meeting at the age of 15, but he did not join the party officially until he was a student.

Griffin went to Cambridge University in 1977, where he studied history and law at the all-male Downing College. Whilst there, he founded the Young National Front Students. He graduated with a 2:2 and a boxing blue. Griffin was quick to rise up through the ranks of the party, becoming the national organiser by 1978.

In 1980, Griffin launched Nationalism Today with the help of Joe Pearce, editor of Bulldog. They formulated the idea that a "third way" was needed to transcend the evils of both capitalism and communism.

Under Griffin's control, the National Front supported Libya's Colonel Gadaffi and Iran's Ayatollah Khomeini. Griffin visited Tripoli in 1988 at Gadaffi's expense to look for funding from the Libyan regime.

The National Front gradually fell apart in the late eighties. Griffin was instrumental in founding one of the more obscure factions to come out of the split. It was called "the International Third Position", a right-wing cross between socialism and capitalism.

In 1990, Griffin had a serious accident that left him blinded in one eye. Griffin experienced financial difficulties in 1991 after a business project he was involved in went badly wrong.

Griffin joined the BNP in 1995. He became editor of 'The Rune', a quarterly produced by Croydon BNP. Soon after, he began to edit the BNP's Spearhead magazine.

In 1999 Griffin ousted John Tyndall as leader of the party.He was a candidate for the Oldham West and Royton constituency in the 2001 general election, winning 16.4% of vote (6552 votes).

(Emphasis added)

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ran-
Quote[/b] ]I thought about voting for the Communist party since daddy was a commie ( ) and their TV spot looked nice (I liked the song in it... just kidding, there are much more better reasons in my mind than that).

Smashing capitalism perhaps? tounge_o.gif

that yes ... and getting myself in position of leader of the PCF (French communist party) to then build an empire and take over the world following Marx's principes in an unniversal revolution tounge_o.gif

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Quote[/b] ]

In 1990, Griffin had a serious accident that left him blinded in one eye.

we got almost the same here although we don't know exactly which eye is Fubar tounge_o.gif

oeil1.giflepen.jpgoeil2.gif

First name : Jean (a.k.a. Jean Marie)

Last name : Le Pen

Professional activity : Billionaire

Main hobby : Fascism

Distinctive physical character : One-eyed (which eye ?)

key words : money, extremism, lies and violence

his biography is quite interesting too ...

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Perhaps its not a good thing to admit but if it wasnt for people like these, theres a possibility i wouldnt bother voting. Although i also think voting for the communists is a little like shooting yourself in the foot. I mean somehow a mass uprising of the proletariat to seize the means of production or whatever doesnt seem quite so inevitable anymore.

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I mean somehow a mass uprising of the proletariat to seize the means of production or whatever doesnt seem quite so inevitable anymore.

eh ... nostalgy nostalgy ... tounge_o.gif

I was kidding about my vote for the commies, they're only the shadows of themselves nowadays tounge_o.gif so, i'll vote socialist, without holding too much hope though since they're sitting on their thumbs these days.

(and btw, i vote for the same reason as you do)

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Denoir, thats a BBC site, i wouldn't expect anything much better then that. Surely u know the BBC love labour? maybe you don't

@isthatyoujohnwayne: Yer i do read newspapers, the Daily Mail and Nottingham Evening Post. Both without anti-white attacks.

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Denoir, thats a BBC site, i wouldn't expect anything much better then that. Surely u know the BBC love labour? maybe you don't

@isthatyoujohnwayne:  Yer i do read newspapers, the Daily Mail and Nottingham Evening Post. Both without anti-white attacks.

The BBC are government independent, I thought the Hutton enquiry had shown that crazy_o.gif

I recommend you read some slightly more advanced newspapers than those, such as The Times, Observer, Independent, with the odd IHT thrown in.

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Bordoy-

Quote[/b] ]Yer i do read newspapers, the Daily Mail

You know thats a little like saying 'i do watch TV, the shopping channel' . Whilst it might strictly qualify as a newspaper, the spirit of impartial reporting of facts seems a little lacking.

Anyway the Daily Mail have carried stories about white people being attacked by non white people in the north of England. I know this because relatives of mine read that paper and thats where i first heard about that story(excluding TV). Needless to say the Mail didnt go into too much detail about the causes behind the situation as that could bore someone.

Ill say it again, there are problems of integration in some parts of the country and i dont think state funded 'faith' schools help that situation but over and above all else the BNP would not make things better. Ever. They want division, terror and oppression and they are the most Un-British party in Britain.

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They want division, terror and oppression and they are the most Un-British party in Britain.

Very well said.

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They want terror? Apart from Nick Griffin's PAST what else suggests that they want that?

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Denoir, thats a BBC site, i wouldn't expect anything much better then that. Surely u know the BBC love labour? maybe you don't

Are you saying that they are lying about the facts mentioned there?

If you want a the anti-Nazi movements have to say about him:

Profile of Nick Griffin [searchlight Magazine]

Quote[/b] ]

The British National Party leader, Nick Griffin, is a hardline fascist. Convicted for inciting race hate, he denies that the Holocaust ever took place and believes that Jews are conspiring against white British people.

Griffin is from a wealthy family with a history of far right involvement. His father, Edwin, took him to his first NF meeting when he was just 15. Griffin’s mother is the administration secretary of the party and stood in the 2001 general election.

When Nick Griffin attended Cambridge University to study law his involvement in extremist politics grew. By 1978, he was the national organiser of the NF.

In 1980, Griffin launched Nationalism Today with the help of Joe Pearce, a convicted racist and editor of Bulldog. Nationalism Today became the springboard for the Third Positionist ideas that the NF later adopted. Through Nationalism Today Griffin and Pearce developed their idea that a “third way†was needed to replace the evils of both capitalism and communism. They felt both were Zionist controlled.

The Third Positionist wing of the NF saw the traditional style of fascist organising as pro-capitalist. Griffin wanted to create a political elite. Based on the blood and soil philosophy of Julius Evola, an Italian National Socialist, Griffin and the NF began to develop their Third Positionist ideas.

But it was also terrorists who were to prove a strong influence on Griffin’s politics. Italian fascist, Roberto Fiore, had arrived in Britain with several others including people implicated in the bombing at Bologna railway station in 1980 in which 85 people.

Griffin and Fiore became close, with the Italian working for Griffin’s tour company, Heritage Tours. Griffin’s father remains Fiore’s personal and business accountant.

Griffin’s BNP may hate Islamic fundamentalists now. But this has not always been the case. After his faction took control of the NF, they began to make some strange alliances. They met with representatives of Colonel Gaddafi’s regime through the Libyan People’s Bureau in London, and expressed support for Iran’s Ayatollah Khomeini.

Rank and File members of the NF were not too pleased when Griffin, in 1985, praised the black separatist Louis Farrakhan: “White nationalists everywhere wish (Farrakhan) well, for we share a common struggle for the same ends: Racial Separation and Racial Freedomâ€.

During this period, Griffin and other NF leaders took an all-expenses paid trip to Libya, as guests of the Gaddafi regime to obtain funding.

National Front News wrote at the time: “Common interest must be turned into practical cooperation. Those involved must work to nail the media lies which are used by our enemies to try and divide us and make us afraid to be seen standing side by side with Third Way nations such as Libya and Iranâ€. Ironic that Griffin once allied himself so closely with Muslim countries that he now condemns as terrorist states. But political gymnastics have been constant throughout Griffin’s life. His bizarre ideologies have changed like the wind.

In 1989, he left the NF and formed the International Third Position, a fanatically Catholic fascist group. The ITP campaigned against Coca Cola, McDonalds, urbanisation and “Zionism†His involvement did not last beyond a few years. In 1991, after a failed business venture, Griffin went his own way.

In 1995, Griffin joined the BNP. He began to edit The Rune, an anti-Semitic quarterly. He also announced that the BNP should prioritise denying the Holocaust to schoolchildren.

He earned a two-year suspended prison sentence for his sick views on the Holocaust. In 1998 he was found guilty of inciting race hatred at Harrow Crown Court for denying that the Holocaust ever took place.

But now Griffin tries to pretend the BNP is respectable. The ITP have also been baffled by Griffin’s incoherence. It recently declared: “He has been a conservative, a revolutionary nationalist, a radical National Socialist, a Third Positionist, a friend of the ‘boot boys’ and the skinhead scene, a man committed to respectable politics and electioneering, a ‘moderniser’. Which is he in reality? Perhaps he has been all these quite sincerely – in which case his judgement is abysmal; or perhaps he has been none of them sincerely – which speaks for itself!â€

Griffin immediately had his sights upon leading the BNP. He became editor of Spearhead, the then BNP magazine, from 1996 until his split from former leader John Tyndall in 1999.

He yearned for a BNP that was reputable and modern. The label of Nazism tarnished the group’s image, and Griffin wanted to copy the more intellectual far right parties on the continent. But though he spoke of the need for a community-based politics, his words in The Rune showed his real colours. “The electors of Millwall did not back a post-modernist Rightist Party, but what they perceived to be a strong, disciplined organisation with the ability to back up its slogan “Defend Rights for Whites’ with well-directed boots and fists. When the crunch comes, power is the product of force and will, not of rational debateâ€.

On the other hand you can find quite a few pure Nazi or white-supremacy websites that are very fond of him.

He's Nazi scum and so is his party. There are a lot of similar assholes around Europe. I am very pleased that our brand of them "Sverigedemokraterna" are really an extremely small minority that have no political influence whatsoever.

The worrying part in Europe is actually not on the national level, where people tend to vote a bit smarter. On the EU level however these semi-Nazi parties have attracted quite a few voters by their rabid anti-EU position (works obviously well with nationalism). The sad thing is that it gives them legitimity that they would never had gotten on a national level.

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They want terror? Apart from Nick Griffin's PAST what else suggests that they want that?

Are you saying a person with that kind of past is suitable for public office? crazy_o.gif

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Exactly!

But Denoir, dont you know anti-nazi groups are biased against the BNP? So obviously you cant trust them. crazy_o.gif

Really there is enough information in the media on the BNP that anyone can find out what theyre really all about. But if supporters think that all respectable media outlets seem biased against them, perhaps they could look closely at why. Could it possibly be because rather than saying 'what noone else has the guts to' or somesuch they are in fact peddling ill thought out bullshit of a highly inflammatory and divisive nature with no constructive value at all.

Quote[/b] ]The worrying part in Europe is actually not on the national level, where people tend to vote a bit smarter. On the EU level however these semi-Nazi parties have attracted quite a few voters by their rabid anti-EU position (works obviously well with nationalism). The sad thing is that it gives them legitimity that they would never had gotten on a national level.
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Thats quite right and its precisely this type of thing that annoys about what i see as the EU rushing things before the people of Europe are totally ready. The EU could become an utterly harmful institution if (as well as the inexcusable level of corruption and waste) it provides a focus for nationalistic paranoia.

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The UKIP is also worth taking a closer look at before considering.

UKIP lurches right (from 2001)

Quote[/b] ]Former racists, antisemites and Holocaust deniers are among the 401 candidates listed by the UK Independence Party for the forthcoming general election. It is yet more proof that the party has lurched to the right since a series of damaging internal splits caused the resignation of several hundred activists last year.

Launching the campaign, party leader Nigel Farage announced that the UKIP would win one million votes. “We are not pretending for a moment it is going to be easy, but we do have a chance in some of these seats.â€

His attempts to bring the anti-EU party into the political mainstream will be severely undermined by the revelation that several of its candidates have extremist pasts, some of which continue to this day:

Alastair Harper (Dunfermline West). Once a leading light in the nazi Northern League founded by Roger Pearson in 1958 who today funds and promotes racial eugenics. Northern League events in Brighton attracted former Nazi SS officers and British nazis, and it was also linked to the mentor of Dr Mengele, the Nazi race doctor. Harper, a former Scottish school teacher, was editor of Northern World, a Nordicist and anti-semitic journal. In 1990, Harper was photographed by Searchlight attending the Iona conference, a far right gathering organised by the former NF organiser Michael Walker. He has also been chair of the local Conservative Association.

Andrew Moffatt (Beaconsfield). A former National Front member, he once posed with a young woman for a party advertising leaflet. In September 1980 he was discharged from the Coldstream Guards without explanation. His case was enthusiastically taken up by the late George Kennedy Young, leader of Tory Action and a fanatical antisemite, and David Irving, the Holocaust denier. His connection to Irving continues to this day. He remains a close personal friend of the infamous former NF organiser, Martin Webster.

Aidan Rankin (Richmond, Yorkshire). Rankin, who co-wrote the UKIP manifesto, has been associated with the far-right Third Way, a breakaway from the NF formed by Patrick Harrington in 1989. Rankin has contributed articles and letters to the Third Way website. One letter declares, “I am impressed by the range and quality of the Third Way manifesto, but the section on green politics left me slightly disappointedâ€. In contradiction to his new role as a UKIP candidate, he adds, “Unlike the green movement, the Referendum Party and its poor relation the UKIP do not represent the future… I see electoral reform, not ‘Europe’, as the most important constitutional issue we shall face in the next five yearsâ€. Despite such sentiments, he is now one of UKIP’s key functionaries.

Graham Webster-Gardiner (Epson & Ewell). A former leading figure in the right-wing and anti-immigrant Monday Club during the 1970s, he was a hardline anti-communist, regularly attending functions at the South Vietnamese and Cambodian embassies. Today Webster-Gardiner is the South East organiser of UKIP and a member of its executive committee.

Mike Nattrass (Sutton Coldfield). The National Chairman of UKIP and its West Midlands regional organiser, Nattrass is a former member of the New Britain Party, (see opposite page).

The selection of these candidates comes soon after the UKIP was forced to expel one of its executive members for denying the Holocaust. Alistair McConnachie, its Scottish organiser and representative on the UKIP executive, explained his views to party members. “I don’t accept that gas chambers were used to execute Jews for the simple fact there is no direct physical evidence to show that such gas chambers ever existedâ€.

A party disciplinary hearing had earlier expelled McConnachie for five years but this was later overturned by the national executive, which commuted his sentence to a one-year suspension from the executive.

The UKIP only acted after another executive member resigned from the party and went to the press. If the UKIP leadership had bothered to take a proper look at one of its leading members, they would have found a hardline antisemite and racist.

A trained physiotherapist with a former practice in Edinburgh, McConnachie has flirted with a number of extremist groups and personalities. He once worked for the Social Credit Secretariat in Scotland, a group that preaches the economic theories of Major C H Douglas.

While the SCS denies being racist or antisemitic, its publication, The Social Crediter, has recommended the antisemitic Bloomfield Books, run by Donald Martin, and lists Anthony Cooney among its contributors. For many years Cooney was the editor of The Liverpool Newsletter, a publication that combined racist and antisemitic articles with social credit policies.

In 1998, McConnachie monitored the Bilderberg conference in Scotland in the company of Jim Tucker, a reporter from the US antisemitic paper, Spotlight. Also present were Donald Martin and Matthew J. Browning of the British Israelites World Federation (BIWF).

The same year, McConnachie fell out with the SCS leader, Alan Armstrong, and was soon sent packing. It was only then that the SCS realised that McConnachie had been subscribing to racist and revisionist material through its offices.

He soon found work, and later a directorship, with James Gibb Stewart, formerly of Western Goals and now running a publishing outfit in Glasgow. McConnachie took over the desk of Cliff Morrison, a Third Way supporter.

McConnachie is also closely linked to Iain McGregor, editor of the Social Credit International and the far-right newsletter, the Scottish Patriot. He is also been involved in the BIWF. It was McGregor who introduced McConnachie to the SCS.

Despite his expulsion, senior UKIP figures seem to have no difficulty working with McConnachie. Several weeks after he was shown the door, the UKIP’s research director, Richard North, shared a platform with McConnachie at a “Stop the Slaughter†rally in Roxburghshire.

The UKIP has swung to the right in the past two years, largely because its more moderate supporters who were attracted to the party during John Major’s leadership have returned to the Conservative Party under Hague. The UKIP now represents a hard right grouping, attracting disaffected Tory voters in the same way the BNP is gaining from working class Labour voters

As I understand it they have been trying with moderate success to distance themselves from BNP. Here's a current article on the UKIP-BNP link in context of the EP elections:

Row over UKIP-BNP link [The Herald]

And an interesting article on their anti-immigrant views:

It feels like the BNP - only in blazers [Guardian]

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Exactly!

But Denoir, dont you know anti-nazi groups are biased against the BNP? So obviously you cant trust them. crazy_o.gif

Really there is enough information in the media on the BNP that anyone can find out what theyre really all about. But if supporters think that all respectable media outlets seem biased against them, perhaps they could look closely at why. Could it possibly be because rather than saying 'what noone else has the guts to' or somesuch they are in fact peddling ill thought out bullshit of a highly inflammatory and divisive nature with no constructive value at all.

Quote[/b] ]The worrying part in Europe is actually not on the national level, where people tend to vote a bit smarter. On the EU level however these semi-Nazi parties have attracted quite a few voters by their rabid anti-EU position (works obviously well with nationalism). The sad thing is that it gives them legitimity that they would never had gotten on a national level.
-

Thats quite right and its precisely this type of thing that annoys about what i see as the EU rushing things before the people of Europe are totally ready. The EU could become an utterly harmful institution if (as well as the inexcusable level of corruption and waste) it provides a focus for nationalistic paranoia.

I don't think there is any way of avoiding national paranoia. Take a look at the UK - you've been around for how long? And you still have problem with national paranoia Scottish, Welsh, Irish and English

Xenophobia and tribal mentality are in the very core of human nature. These are primal instincts and if you spice them up with fear propaganda, you are bound to get a good result. And that's what the right-wing populist parties do. It's a cheap way of getting votes, and as we can see, they are succeeding quite well.

Also a core problem is the politicians in power on a national level who find it very convenient to take credit for everything good that the EU does and blame the EU for everything bad that happnes.

I don't think that it will stop the momentum of European integration though. There are too many economic factors involved. Nay-sayers may obstruct and delay, but ultimately we can see how quickly things are progressing.

The coming constitution will be of utter most importance. All federalists are (quietly of course) hoping that it will fail as it would mean a branching of the EU. The EU-opponents don't seem to have realized that they can either accept something now that they have been part of negotiating or that they sooner or later will be accepting a document written completely by others. I don't think that there is a chance that the importance of the EU will decrease. And more sceptical countries like Britain or Sweden will have to take the full step one day.

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First, nothing of the nature of european integration in the current situation is quite inevitable. Europe is europe, not only France, Germany, Belgium perhaps Spain and Italy.

Quote[/b] ]Also a core problem is the politicians in power on a national level who find it very convenient to take credit for everything good that the EU does and blame the EU for everything bad that happnes.

So they (pro-europeans) say but there is also a kernel of problematic truths currently still at the heart of the EU. All criticism of the EU cannot be dismissed as tribalistic xenophobia. The CAP for example and the common fisheries policy have had quite a disasterous effect in Britain and are harmful to the whole EU. The EU has supposedly been trying to pursue a 'less is more' policy regarding legislation recently but the evidence of success is limited. A significant amount of health and safety, standardisation and related legislation seem of questionable necessity or benefit, at least in this country.

It may be impossible to avoid gross nationalist paranoia but it is possible to prevent the EU providing a regular focus for this by being careful and pehaps even cautious with legislation, which is what i would advocate whilst the EU is still young and quite widely mistrusted and mispercieved (not only in Britain). The representatives and supporters of the EU have also been pretty bad at arguing their case in this country.

Just as a side note, mainstream English nationalism has only really been starting to surface again in the last ten years or so after English people had been thinking of themselves as British for so long, and partly it must be said in response to the rise of Welsh and Scottish nationalism (even now some people seem to get confused between the Union Jack and the English flag).

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All criticism of the EU cannot be dismissed as tribalistic xenophobia. The CAP for example and the common fisheries policy have had quite a disasterous effect in Britain and are harmful to the whole EU.

Of course there are tons of shit within the structure of the EU. The CAP being an obvious example. But you have to see that the EU is work in progress. Right now we're in the catch-as-can phase where each country tries to grab as much as it can. France, Germany and Britain are experts at it due to their size.

The British moan about getting screwed by the Franco-German coalition, but trust me smaller countries around Europe are equally moaning about how they are ripped off by British grabbing. We're in an infancy stage of the system and before a common political culture grows, it is inevitable. It is also inevitable that it will settle down over time.

That's why you have to vote for sensible people for the EP as well as on a national level.

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I'm learning more about European politics from you guys than I did in any of my college classes. smile_o.gif

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For the <span style='color:#000000'>Ger</span><span style='color:#ff0000'>ma</span><span style='color:#FFEA00'>ns</span>: here is a website where you can check which party fits best to you:

http://www.wahl-o-mat.de

Of course the party I was in most accordance with were the <span style='color:#00A651'>greens</span> biggrin_o.gif

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Just voted

Denoir-

Quote[/b] ]"We're in an infancy stage of the system and before a common political culture grows, it is inevitable. It is also inevitable that it will settle down over time."

But the growth of a common political culture itself is far from an inevitability (at least within the lifetimes of people in this forum). In fact there is easily scope for greater division, and if we start taking the emergence of a common european political culture for granted, then it is liable to disappear at any time like the mirage it currently is. I would perhaps wish i had the same unbridled optimism as you, except here it almost smacks of complacency.

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Perhaps im being a little harsh, with all ive said i voted for a party belonging to the spineless liberal pinko ELDR tounge_o.gif , the Liberal Democrats (at the european level that is).

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Quote[/b] ]I'm learning more about European politics from you guys than I did in any of my college classes.

and its some crazy shit.... biggrin_o.gif

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