International Politics Thread

[riffleman 20]

One intresting thing NATO have started a war against taliban,but it become big worry for indian army as news told.why did NATO ask india for support from east side,pakistan from west side.it will work.but NATO think they can remove taliban,but i guess it is not possible without help of india and pakistan.

[[GLT] Legislator 59]

No reason to moan about the current situation -- at least not about the missing fairness: It's getting worse and worse for the rest of the world's population day-by-day and I doubt you're actively doing something against it. So I'd not blame our richest 10% here of doing nothing against the fact that they're getting richer.

So I'm not allowed to complain until the rest of the world has better living conditions? Right ... I live my as good as I can but I won't live the lives of the rest of the world. Please don't be so arrogant and demand things that can't be done. I'm working half the day, the majority is for my family and one tiny part is my sparetime / sleep. If I don't deserve this ... well ... then this country doesn't deserve me as a tiny part of the democracy and I will leave some day.

[Takko 10]

and I will leave some day

haha where to?

[[GLT] Legislator 59]

That's a good question. Switzerland may be nice ... however I'd have to hurry :D I've heard people are complaining about german immigrants.

[raedor 8]

So I'm not allowed to complain until the rest of the world has better living conditions? Right ... I live my as good as I can but I won't live the lives of the rest of the world. Please don't be so arrogant and demand things that can't be done. I'm working half the day, the majority is for my family and one tiny part is my sparetime / sleep. If I don't deserve this ... well ... then this country doesn't deserve me as a tiny part of the democracy and I will leave some day.

Sure, you can complain, as long it is not perfect it's always time to improve the situation -- and we're far from being perfect. But you should keep in mind that we're complaining on a very, very, very high level and that many many people who lived and died (or are still living) had/have a less 'nice' life.

And BTW: "Please don't be so arrogant and demand things that can't be done." Why can't they be done? What would you say if one of the richt 10% in Germany says that to you? I mean, why should he be able to change the situation, if you can't change the situation when you are the rich part?

@Switzerland: Erm, what exactly is better there? Sure, there are pros and cons, but I'd be interested in the pros that make you say something like that. In Switzerland you as well have to work for your money, nothing more and nothing less.

[[GLT] Legislator 59]

Why can't they be done?

Make an example, please.

What would you say if one of the richt 10% in Germany says that to you? I mean, why should he be able to change the situation, if you can't change the situation when you are the rich part?

Because they have money. It the basic thing to help anyone except you find workers/helpers who'll work for free.

@Switzerland: Erm, what exactly is better there? Sure, there are pros and cons, but I'd be interested in the pros that make you say something like that. /QUOTE]

That's personal taste ... nicer landscape, people are nicer

In Switzerland you as well have to work for your money, nothing more and nothing less

True, I've not claimed anything else. Are you up to something specific?

[raedor 8]

Make an example, please.

An example? There you go: You can help to improve the situation, because you have money, much money compared to them. That's the basic thing to help anyone except you find workers/helpers who'll work for free.

You get the point?

Because they have money. It the basic thing to help anyone except you find workers/helpers who'll work for free.

Good point.

That's personal taste ... nicer landscape, people are nicer

Okay. But then the reason you're leaving from here is not the political system, but the landscape and the people -- I can understand that. The political system there is different of course, too, but I doubt that the politicians there are any different (better or worse) than here.

True, I've not claimed anything else. Are you up to something specific?

No, all fine then.

[[GLT] Legislator 59]

An example? There you go: You can help to improve the situation, because you have money, much money compared to them. That's the basic thing to help anyone except you find workers/helpers who'll work for free.

You get the point?

Not really ... how can you define "how much" money I have? And does it matter who I help/how I help? Would it be wrong helping people in germany first? You know this is dangerous question! No one is less worth / more worth than somebody else! We all share the same worth ... althoug my experiences showed the opposite. I've been treated like a supply good for years and it changed me, my behaviour. I'm fighting my inner demons every day and god knows I'm not a perfect guy anyway.

But there are limits to what can be people do, especially when it comes to global issues. That's why we're a democracy. We're voting guys who do the global thinking/acting for us because they've got better knowledge (I really really hope so), they've got the etat and they've got the manpower + time to achieve things. It's a shame that they use these ressources to destroy instead of helping primarily.

As for me I don't feel guilty because I don't spend 24/7 traveling and helping on the other side of the world. But that doesn't mean I'll find it ok what's going on in other countries.

[Baff1 0]

One intresting thing NATO have started a war against taliban,but it become big worry for indian army as news told.why did NATO ask india for support from east side,pakistan from west side.it will work.but NATO think they can remove taliban,but i guess it is not possible without help of india and pakistan.

I would strongly suggest that they have asked both. Not to mention China and Iran too.

Certainly Pakistan they have been repeatedly asking for help and they are clearly getting alot of it from them.

---------- Post added at 06:31 PM ---------- Previous post was at 06:27 PM ----------

So I'm not allowed to complain until the rest of the world has better living conditions? .

If you live in Germany then the rest of the world doesn't have better living conditions.

You can still complain that they do if you like I suppose.

[maturin 12]

Not sure what you mean by "on another continent".

I put it to you that the intransience in Ukraines accessesion to the EU was not from the Ukraines side.

That the Ukraine had the political and domestic will to join, but the EU, despite making encouraging noises, has never come up with the offer.

That's what I meant. To most EU members, Ukraine is not part of their Europe, for various reasons.

[vilas 473]

Labor union membership in Eastern Europe is lower than that in Western Europe. That's downright strange, if you think about it. And labor unions are the civil society institutions (any social, charitable or political group) with the most members. In short, civil society is weak.

i will tell you why this happens

"new Solidarity" are those "activists" who "betrayed old ideas" and they have no trust anymore , other trade-union activists are people who only care about themselves, example:

trade union member activist have some rights in "employment codex law"

he is corrupted by employer(owner) by much higher salary and he not cares about real workers

cause in our law such Solidarity leader-member is untouchable by employer (law regulation made by Solidarity in early 1991)

so he can sit whole day reading novels and ... employer can't do him anything

he not allow others to join union etc. and he gets extra money from fact that he is

i know some workers (from factory, from ex FSO/Daewoo, from big printing house printing tones of books and newspapers, from electrical plant)

in TV you can see often miners which say very unpleasant things about their trade union "leaders" which in fact only care to get more money

officially by the law "there is trade union in factory and law is fulfilled" but in real trade union not allow join new members, he read novel and get +50% more salary than others

but law regulation is fulfilled

it would be best to show it on example (i like examples)

so , friend of my Peter worked in big printing house in 2001 or 2002

it was time of over 20% unemployment and "jungle capitalism" in Poland (before EU join)

he had agreement of work (umowa o pracÄ™) or in English language "contract" signed for 8 hours daily for than 1200PLN (850PLN - 210 EU to hand) for Monday to Friday, he was working in warehouse of factory

few weeks later his boss said "you must stay later, cause more transport will come"

he wanted him to work 13 hours for this money and go on Saturdays for free

Peter was angry , cause he signed contract Mon-Fri 7AM-3PM, NOT for example 6AM-8PM, 7AM-9PM etc.

other workers said "don't mess, we all here work for free some hours" etc.

he went to visit boss of trade union of NSZZ Solidarity in factory and he heard:

- we don't need new members

- as boss told, you must do it

later he found from workers that leader of Solidarity only read novels and she (woman leader) earns twice as they (corrupted to close eyes on deeds of owner)

boss fired him for this visit

now you know how it is with "low civil activity in Eastern Eu" ?

cause siting on west watching your TV and statistics you probably think "this Vilas is saying bullshit, it not meet official statistics"

so i hope this example will show you statistics about trade union in east are look like they look

if one example is not enough i can give other, but i think this one is clear enough

trade-union do not have trust anymore in people eyes, not after 1990

people not acting in trade union not means "Poles don't need social organizations of work rights"

it means "leaders are corrupted" "leaders cheated us" "leaders used usual people as ladder" "they not allow to join union"

my 3 friends working as workers wanted to join trade unions and all of them were rejected , when i was working in private company i also wanted join , cause i had similar troubles with money/contract time issue, i believe that thousands or milion of Poles can tell the same story as above , there is also some internet forums when lots of people flame on employers and trade union in similar situations

i hope this example cleared your doubts about strange disproportion East/West trade union members and civil activity :]

11/26 was closed so here i am answering

and regarding things about "Sicko" "Columbine" and etc.

even when i watch "Orange County Chopers" or "West Coast Customs" - i watch them looking at "boss-employee" relations

if you call Michael Moore (if i gave proper name of guy) propaganda (i asked few times those who call me even talib to prove that facts shown in Sicko are lies) than West Coast Customs ?

tv serie about building cars called "hotrods", but also show how man who simply was ill (cold or angina) lost job cause was very late to job :/ how ill man, who has problems, can be fired ??? he should go to doctor and get 7-14 days free to lie in bed and come healthy

if in "evil communist country" you are sick - you go to doctor, get for example 7 days off job, you lie in bed and cure yourself, in West Coast Customs young guy lost job , wtf??

--------

edit: if someone says about talibanism (when i told about state help to half-orphant child with ill mother : http://forums.bistudio.com/showthread.php?t=89875&page=17 ) - http://forums.bistudio.com/showthread.php?t=95436

it is talibanism , sick idiot believer that punches professor (someone who has scientific degree so knows more than student soldier), it is a typical talibanism, christian talibanism of low IQ soldier (good that only one, i hope he get punished for violence , i hope not much % of society thinks as one idiot ho did such act)

religion+rifle = taliban, no matter if rifle is AK47 or M4A1, no matter if uniform is white/black tunic with turban or ACU - it is all the same , but thans for another argument more, no need more Michael Moore movies than such "culture" is accepted, it should not be accepted , cause later other guy sits in jet, fly on WTC also to prove his "love and belief to god" etc.

if this story is real , congratulations to idiots that mix religion and violence

Edited February 17, 2010 by vilas

[seba1976 98]

You know Vilas, it's kinda funny, but there is a link between Moore's work and West Customs... they both show you only one part of reality, for their own purposes. The former for a political agenda, the later for drama. It's a reality show for god's sake. Maybe you should find new sources of information about the world... for a start.

[maturin 12]

i will tell you why this happens

"new Solidarity" are those "activists" who "betrayed old ideas" and they have no trust anymore , other trade-union activists are people who only care about themselves, example:

trade union member activist have some rights in "employment codex law"

he is corrupted by employer(owner) by much higher salary and he not cares about real workers

cause in our law such Solidarity leader-member is untouchable by employer (law regulation made by Solidarity in early 1991)

so he can sit whole day reading novels and ... employer can't do him anything

he not allow others to join union etc. and he gets extra money from fact that he is

So it has absolutely nothing to do with being forced to join a trade union that represents only the interests of the government and is watched by the secret police, and attending mandatory classes and propaganda sessions? Really? Because workers left the unions in droves as soon as they were allowed to.

[Clavicula_nox4817 0]

Everything I needed to know about the world, I learned from movies.

[Commando84 0]

isn't a union for the workers supposed to be about the union helping the defenceless workers against opression from the random asshole corporate suits?

In my country you have to be a part of a union to get the special unemployment cash every month.

All else goes to the social welfare office or what ever its called in english ;)

I dunno only people that know how to work good in unions are the french cause they always manage to riot and protest about something :)

[vilas 473]

In my country

In your country probably all is normal and best in the world comparing from my perspective - makes difference

[maturin 12]

isn't a union for the workers supposed to be about the union helping the defenceless workers against opression from the random asshole corporate suits?

In my country you have to be a part of a union to get the special unemployment cash every month.

All else goes to the social welfare office or what ever its called in english ;)

I dunno only people that know how to work good in unions are the french cause they always manage to riot and protest about something :)

In Communism, unions are just another part of the government. They don't represent anyone because they are controlled by a rigid hierarchy of government officials.

[vilas 473]

In Communism, unions are just another part of the government. They don't represent anyone because they are controlled by a rigid hierarchy of government officials.

than tell me what is difference for worker, if such union is now controled by owner ?

i gave example of one Peter who worked in printing house, i can give another Peter from delivery service (also logistics), Kuba from FSO/Daewoo, Bartek from warehouse in electric-products selling company (division of foreign company), Dominik from one of famous in world super-markets (in Poland we have at least 3 big French firms as Auchan, Carrefour, Leroy... )

tell me honestly - what is the difference for "worker" WHO controls trade union leaders ? party or extra-pay ? what difference it makes to worker ?

[Baff1 0]

Who cares Unions suck.

Just a bunch of thugs ganging up to steal money off the little guys and those who are willing to work harder than them for the same pay.

[maturin 12]

than tell me what is difference for worker, if such union is now controled by owner ?

i gave example of one Peter who worked in printing house, i can give another Peter from delivery service (also logistics), Kuba from FSO/Daewoo, Bartek from warehouse in electric-products selling company (division of foreign company), Dominik from one of famous in world super-markets (in Poland we have at least 3 big French firms as Auchan, Carrefour, Leroy... )

tell me honestly - what is the difference for "worker" WHO controls trade union leaders ? party or extra-pay ? what difference it makes to worker ?

It's not really a labor union if it is controlled by the owner. Duh.

In the United States, the culture of worker organization and collective bargaining is weak, and unions are not always a positive influence. The unions that do exist and operate effectively, however, are powerful and independent. In our capitalist hell hole. Amazing.

The World Health Organization controls the AFL?

[topas 1]

- day ago - 2 hooligans was throwing things in tram windows, policeman saw it , policeman wanted to stop hooligans, one hooligan caught policeman, second was stabbing him to death

It happened at 10am at a tram stop next to a crowded mall - CH Fort Wola

The policeman in question was off-duty; had a wife and two daughters [one being a newborn]

The murderers are 17 and 18 years old; they both showed 1,5%o alcohol when arrested

Funeral takes place tommorow at 1PM

He will receive a Cross of Merit for Bravery posthumously

May he Rest in Peace

[vilas 473]

yes, and simply people not react cause they know "bandit has lawyers, i will have troubles"

thats why he died, not only cause we have many hooligans on streets

but also cause people afraid to act , cause they know "i will help, i will have problems"

my friend once helped old woman on street , 2 "dress" (sports wear) wanted take her purse, my friend knows krav-maga

soon their advocate had his adress (you know what it means), policeman on station said "if you will not be witness , they will withdraw your accusation of beat up them"

funny ? no, Poland after 1989

cause according to court "knowing krav-maga he used too much violence and transgressed "suitable force to stop" "

yes, he broke them some bones, but... he should have medal, not court case

day before death of this Policeman we had accident when shopkeeper was scratched by knife by robber, he took away robber's knife, killed robber and ... probably shop keeper will have troubles :/

he was attacked by knife, but he "defended too much"

law written by criminals for criminals, people won't help you when you are in troubles, to not get in problems themselves

i don't understand way that law turns in my country since some years, working myself in this shit :(

a lot of criminals who even killed are free cause have money (todays TV shows son of rich men's son who had no driving license, sit in car he was drunk, killed someone and... released for "money guarantee 7 000 EU till the final sentence" , Police searched guy , court released him

now in TV family of victims say how killer laughed at victims family even in court

guy who killed man (drunken, without driving license) now... made driving license

3 years left... he is free and nothing more

Edited February 18, 2010 by vilas

[NoRailgunner 0]

Sad too see that people don't act because they are more afraid of a possible lawsuit. Its like looking straight into another direction when such cruel things happen and its like non-assistance of a person in danger. You are supporting attackers if you do nothing. If attackers know that they can do what they want and they'll do.

Maybe Poland needs a better-stronger government? What can people do to make a change? Protesting for their rights or even a revolution? Or just move or emigrate into another country?

[HyperU2 11]

If you're taking on the IRS bring more than a Piper Cherokee.

[vilas 473]

NoRailgunner - that's why i am active on political forum, i hate the way Poland turned into (after 1989)

Poland need "honest" government and parliament - but we don't have it, from time to time large scandal appears

people are used that "politician is liar and thief" and they act like they have depression (apathy, powerless, hopeless) , young people chaneged by capitalism only think "how to have better mobile than class-mates, how to have better car than others" , all changed totally

like Topas gave example from his wife's work (school) where : if you are poor , other children won't play with you

money became virtue, older people cannot accept this, but feel helpless

bandits are not controlled "where the hell guy who not works anywhere has 3 cars" etc.

look at Russia - Putin made there a lot of order and raised country after ... alcoholic

and people from west (or at least in my media) spited on Putin "he breaks human rights, he is dictator" etc. now my media act like this on Lukashenko (Belarus)

i have family on Belarus and their opinion is different than my media TV shows about Lukashenko

you must realize some connections "why things go like they go"

in our countries there are 2 evil things causing problems :

- in past (it was changed in law, effect not present yet) all lawyers (advocate, notary, judge, prosecutor) had so called "aplikacja", you could pass exam and work ONLY if other corporation members ALLOWED you (under cover of this so called exam)

so you could be a best student, honest man on law studies but... family not let you enter

in effect lawyers were one big family, cousin advocate, cousing judge, cousing prosecutor.... in US in 1930 mafia was "family" in Poland "law" is mafia

- second problem is "immunity" (something like this not exist on west) to make you understand it : judge, prosecutor, member of parliament and some few people more have "immunity", they can break rule and cannot be judged

so you have "untouchable cast of people with family connections" ruling "law"

it is a problem

after 1989 "red secretary" or "secret service political police" became "businesman", cause they had money, they were given concession to business (in Poland for many activities you must been given concession certificate)

in fact after 1989 changes are for "usual man" to "danger on streets, less care, less worker's rights, no chance to flat because of economy" for "governing cast" situation not changed - those who had political/military power before 1989, now have "economic power"

fault is in "gruba kreska" < so called "bold line" philosophy from 1989 and Walesa friends, they told "we forgiving communists all their sins and start from carte blanche"

(thats why i told about how trade-unions betrayed us)

instead of putting to prisons and taking away all money from ex-terror makers, they made "thin line" and "forget"

in the effect now you have court in case and judge with advocate of your opposite side are friends and know each other very well

comparing to "west" statistics

we have 9 times less lawyers per capita, lawyer is very very very expensive

usual man from street not have money for advocate

bandit has

law changes ofter, for example in previous codex novelisation you had "court MUST check if something..." now you have "court MAY check if something..."

MAY - means "if i have mood i will do, if i won't do, you can kiss my ass"

previously you had "court MUST inform", now you have "court MAY inform side about..."

or "court MUST inform applicant" to "court informs side"

side - applicant (natural person) or his lawyer

so there might happen that ONLY your lawyer is informed, even if he will cheat you - you won't know what court informed about

i sit in this shit for 5 years from 2005 and it really make me sick, for example if you apply claim on one lawyer, than his friends "judge" your claim

it is natural that "hand washes hand"

if you say about revolution... you know, only 10% of people in my country have high education degree (MOA, MBA, MSC etc), rest work from morning till evening and have no idea how codex look TILL the moment they get in troubles

people are totally passive - i will tell you what happened last week, my friend called me that he caught hooligan who scratched dye on his car (you know, car may rust etc., painting car cost money etc.)

he accused this hooligan to Police, he notified neighbors other people who also had scratched cars said "i have no time for courts" "no sense , i won't get money back" "booo" "what a shame, my poor car" etc.

6 cars scratched - only one man reacted to fight for his right and 5 people simply not care or afraid to ? hell knows , maybe they have simply "apathy" ?

our legal system need total rebuild from scratch and total man-factor change, but they protect themselves from being thrown into trash making regulations

---------------------

IRS bring more than a Piper Cherokee.

to complicated for not native speaker

Edited February 19, 2010 by vilas