International Politics Thread

[Baff1 0]

It's never been a vote winner.

Probably why we were never given a vote on it I expect.

Remember that Austrian pedophile guy who imprisoned his wife and daughters in his cellar for 30 years of abuse. Got them pregnant and abused their chiilden too etc.

Why keep him alive?

Would it have been so wrong to hang Hitler?

Popular support for bringing back capital punishment is estimated at 60-65% in my country.

I'm keen to see a return for corporal punishment. That would go a long way to improving schools here.

Edited February 13, 2010 by Baff1

[maturin 12]

Tymosheko lost the last election too. They booted out the old goverment through civil disorder.

It's a pretty even split demographically I think, almost 50/50 so there is never going to be a clear winner.

Then I'm confused. How is voting for Yankovych a vote against democracy when there was no choice for democracy?

Tymoshenko lost one and won one last time.

[vilas 473]

Remember that Austrian pedophile guy who imprisoned his wife and daughters in his cellar for 30 years of abuse. Got them pregnant and abused their chiilden too etc.

Why keep him alive?

yes,

for me it is very not honest and not moral to make people feed him of their taxes

i don't want my money to go for food and gym for criminals and bandits

i can give 0.1 EU for bullet, but not for their gym, bodybuilding (only thing they do in prisons is bodybuilding) and they go out stronger and beat people

thats why capital punishment is honest

and in this point - america has good law

and in many other issues america also have better law than we (even consumer rights and such things)

for me it is not fair if guy who stole some things from mr. A, now eat food for mr A taxes

and goes to gym for mr A taxes

China make better - they use bandits to get organs for transplantation , at least in this case, criminal pay his price for society

this is one thing that i don't like in those "human rights fighters" - they care about bandits more, than about honest people (law against investigators, lower bug/tap possibilities, delicate interrogation possibilities)

effect of those Helsinki suckers is following:

- 3 days ago robber attacked shop keeper by knife , he stabbed man, man took his knife and killed robber - now man has problems

- day ago - 2 hooligans was throwing things in tram windows, policeman saw it , policeman wanted to stop hooligans, one hooligan caught policeman, second was stabbing him to death (RIP to Policeman ) and noone on street reacted

it was middle of city, market center , street in city, why ? cause people know "lawyers, judges and those goddamn human rights fuckers"

this is effect of lack of hard, strict law

thats why i think strong and strict law is a must and capital punishment is somekind of moral repay to those who are not humans and should not have any human rights

from my point of view such panishment should be not only to bandits who killed in robbery, but also to those who harm helpless (children, woman, old people, disabled etc)

people realized "i will help, i will get in problems, i will be accused if i will beat bandit, bandit will know my personal data, adress and will take revenge for testifying" etc.

we already had some famous in TV such cases

advocate of bandit can take personal data of witness and ... you know what will be next

Would it have been so wrong to hang Hitler?

but on very slow griping machine, to make him suffer as long as possible and shit in pants of fear , and stabbing nails under finger nails :D

Popular support for bringing back capital punishment is estimated at 60-65% in my country.

cause people also not want feed bandits from their taxes

they only watch TV and go to gym... holidays :/

Edited February 13, 2010 by vilas

[sparks50 0]

yes,

for me it is very not honest and not moral to make people feed him of their taxes

Ive heard capital punishment is actually more expensive that imprisoning someone for life.

The reason for this is all the court meetings that are needed to get someone executed, and the salaries to those in the court amounts to a very high number in the end.

And what about all those being wrongfully charged with crimes they didn't commit? The history is (sadly) full of these tragic cases, and the real number is probably much higher than we know.

Once a man is murdered for a crime he didn't commit, there will be no way back.

Edited February 13, 2010 by sparks50

[vilas 473]

why more expensive ?

shoot him and burry anywhere as we say "under cemetery wall", without tomb, priest, cross , let punk rot :]

And what about all those being wrongfully charged with crimes they didn't commit?

but there is another situation when guy is recidivist, he had 4 prisons before (1, 2, 3, 5 years for example) and he made something on eyes of whole street

if there are doubts , in most countries, there are no life sentences

only in "101% clear" cases

remember that i talk about group of "lads" "hooligans" that did something on whole street eyes, that were already after some cases and as they say "well known to police"

this is other situation, when you caught drunken man with axe next to dead woman , and other when you have not clear and full of circumstantial evidence case

when case is circumstantial evidence than of course it cannot be punishment

but we had in Poland many cases when group of hooligans killed someone and ... 10 years, 5 years, 7 years, 12 years sentences instead of death

they are leaving prison after 4-6 years of gym and go to learn krav-maga, i live in "Praga" disctic (discussed in other topic), i know a lot of such guys including double killer (as my friend from Police told me about guy)

he is free after 10-12 years, he killed old woman robbing here of gold ring , he works nowhere, he has newst Audi, his kid has Audi etc.

of course he not touches anyone here, cause such districts/neighborhoods have "own rules" as "we here are like brothers and we feel respect to each other" , but it is sad situation when he walks free and has a lot of money without work

state also should control bandit after he left prison "what he does, where from he has money" , but when they release man, they not interest in what he do, he should be under permanent control

and it was like that "under communism", now under "democracy" it gone wrong way :/

maybe in US/China/Russia/India/Africa a lot of people get capital when it was their first case (or circumstantial evidence trials) , but in other countries such punishment were for "very well known and already been punished"

we had cases like few hooligans thrown man from train, cause they were drunk and didn't liked his style (conflict "lads" vs. "metal", "skinheads" vs. "punk" or "rasta/raegge ", there were people killed "cause he had long hair, cause he had dreds, cause he had black boots" )

in my teenage i had to walk with knife , cause i was (and still i am) "metal" and i had to be careful, cause "no haired in white/blue sportswear" can attack me anytime, cause i have black pants and black t-shirt and hairs to stomach

there were actions when such "sport wearing guys" were attacking those who wear other clothes, there were such accidents when thrown such guy off train

this is "clear" case and than "take AK, shoot in head, take organs, bury under cemetery wall"

Edited February 13, 2010 by vilas

[Takko 10]

Look at Saudi Arabia or Kenia, they also

got executions and that does not help.

Even in the US of A, the states with no

capital punishment have a lower relative crime

than those with.

So having that is like going to the

middle age (where it also never worked)

You got to fight the roots of the problem,

like poverty, education and low income and then

you will significantly lower the crime rate.

Edited February 13, 2010 by Takko

[vilas 473]

http://forums.bistudio.com/showpost.php?p=1568288&postcount=1880

(answer on previous page)

as you say about low income...

gosh, man, i really know such "bad guys"

they don't do it because of "no money for food"

they do it cause they want "third BMW"

they are rich, they have a lot of money, they LOVE money , they LOVE 50 inch plazma LCD, they LOVE gold rings and they love to give others pain

this is not about low income and poverty

cause because of poverty man can stole bread in shop, take purse etc.

but guys who are gangsters have large houses under town, second house near sea cost, third house near lakes etc.

"poor guy" won't do crime, cause he has no money for lawyers and corruption of court , so he afraid and he is "shy"

bandits are not "poor hungry guys", sometimes they are kids who watched too much 50-cent clips and want "such BMW, such whores, such gold ring and best mobile ever"

half of Polish mafia bosses are ex-communist secret service, like in Russia half of mafia are ex-KGB

cause they are "without conscience and love money", in previous system they were in secret services cause it was giving them best profits (flat, car etc.)

their children make business and also are bandits etc.

so when you say about root of crime, man, i live in "Praga" (Polish Brooklyn), i went to Police after finishing studies, i really know some about it

most dangerous are not "poor" , you cannot fight "crime" giving them "job for 800 Euro" cause they want "10 000"

Police spokesman once told about one gangster who was collecting money in suitcases, in the evenings, he opened suitcase and watched money almost jacking off, he was not poor, he wanted milions and 5 houses and 10 cars

i know about one cheater/fraudant who is... 2-3 restaurants owner and in business TV told about "cost of opening another restaurant is ca. XXXX and those are not big money, but of course you need to collect them without loosing benefits from shares and etc."

he not grown in poor house, his father was general or colonel

of course there are people who steal cause have no money, but in fact they are not danger and not gain to dangerous "gangsta" level, and they do something and want to quit this,

i know poor people living in poverty - they work 12 hours in warehouses , shops, cleaning etc., not dealing, stealing, cheating

Edited February 13, 2010 by vilas

[sparks50 0]

10 years, 5 years, 7 years, 12 years sentences instead of death

Polands law allows life imprisonment AFAIK. The sentences you mention are not life imprisonment. You cant jump directly from 12 years, to capital punishment.

"101% clear" cases

We are only human, we are not made to be never failing. Many cases where people have been wrongfully convicted seemed obvious as day at the time, and only after a long time it is revealed to be false.

And modern technology like DNA is only helping if there is good evidence on the table.

cause "he made this for the first time" cause "he had good lawyer" cause "witness changed mind day before trial" etc.

in US a lot of such gangsta sit in prison, in our countries they walk on street making another problems and they all well known

Has the VHS shop on the corner started taking in Scarface? I'm glad your doing your research.

The law is made not only to protect people from violence, but to protect people from the inherent faults of the law itself. Call it a fail-safety if you will.

In the same way we have a constitution written to protect us against the ruling government, the law must operate with strict rules.

If we went back to the 1700s "hang whoever the rumors say did it", that would be a much worse thing.

[SWT_Janowich 10]

Has the VHS shop on the corner started taking in Scarface? I'm glad your doing your research.

hahaha good one but also true

[vilas 473]

VHS shop ? i don't understand ?

clarify this to non native English speaker

VHS is casette, so what video tape has to this ?

[Baff1 0]

Then I'm confused. How is voting for Yankovych a vote against democracy when there was no choice for democracy?

It's a vote against "western democracy".

A vote against Ukraines alignment with the EU and NATO.

Those countries that make a big song and dance about it.

It seems they prefer the Russian styled more authoritarian idealogy this year.

I'm not sure that Tymshenko has ever "won" an election. Yushchenko's party always gets the most votes.

---------- Post added at 05:14 AM ---------- Previous post was at 05:11 AM ----------

And what about all those being wrongfully charged with crimes they didn't commit? The history is (sadly) full of these tragic cases, and the real number is probably much higher than we know.

Once a man is murdered for a crime he didn't commit, there will be no way back.

On the otherhand history is (at least) equally full of cases where murderers rapists and kiddie molesters have been freed to do it all again.

It si equally true to say that once a child molester is dead there is no way he is ever going to do it again.

No system is ever going to be perfect.

I quite like living in country with no death sentence, just for the bragging rights.

Edited February 14, 2010 by Baff1

[Dosenmais 10]

I know the Point at the Moment is the ukraine, but there is just this Thread about politics.

The first thing that i read her, was the Post about the EUssr elections. And i was realy pisst off when i read this words:

the ignorant Europeans

What the Hell do his thinking? So, this was the Year 2004 and maybee now he see things different now, but there is no "Vote" in the EUssr, and there never was one. There is just the choice between the Left-Slavedriver, and the Right-Slavedriver. Two sides of the same coin. And its not "ignorant", to boykott this hole damn Sovjet likely fake Parliament, its patriotism! And her comes more and more real Opposition against that EUssr Monster, "Eurocorp" and this other socialist crap.

Europe is not a Fortress, Europe is a Prison.

[maturin 12]

It's a vote against "western democracy".

A vote against Ukraines alignment with the EU and NATO.

Those countries that make a big song and dance about it.

It seems they prefer the Russian styled more authoritarian idealogy this year.

You're still confusing me. Does Yankovych intend to make himself an authoritarian leader? Is he going to be all that friendlier to Russia than TYmoshenko would have been. Ukrainians don't care about great power politics, abstract cold war alignments, they care about the economy. It was a vote against a president with a single-digit approval rating.

I'm not sure that Tymshenko has ever "won" an election. Yushchenko's party always gets the most votes.

I was just referring to the oranges in general.

[Baff1 0]

I expect Yanukovich (doh) to be a whole lot friendlier to the Russians. He always has been in the past.

I don't expect him to be trying to exclude them in order to court NATO and EU membership.

I do expect him to renew their naval base lease.

Given the highly divided nature of the country, anyone who isn't an authoritarian won't get anything done. There is no point seeking a political consensus in such a place. Whatever you seek to do, half of everyone you govern will be trying to prevent it.

Ukrainians do care about the economy, and their economy has been a dependant of Russia for the longest time.

That Russian naval base they have promised to close makes up a massive part of the local economy.

All their national energy is subsidised by Russia.

Currently they pay half price for it, which has come as a great shock to them as they were used to getting it for nothing their whole lives.

They are in econoimc crisis for having left the fold. The trade with the EU and the EU loans have not materialised. The promised wealth never appeared only the greater poverty that has resulted from deliberately alienating their primary donor.

Russia isn't going to sponsor them any more if they won't act in Russia's intrests. Why would they?

(15 years ago when Russia had been too bankrupt to support them for some time anyway, I don't suppose breaking away from was any particular loss, quite the opposite, the dream of the west economically taking up in Russia's stead must have looked like the obvious way forward).

The hard truth has come home to them. The Orange movement has been unable to deliver.

Neither do I believe the Cold War alignments to be particularly abstract in that country. The Orange movement is from the south, the others from the north. It's a divided country with half of the people traditionally anti-Russian and the other pro-Russian with Russian relatives and Rusian passports. Geographically, the North of Ukraine was formerly known as "Greater Russia".

The south wishes to break from that national history and the north absolutely do not. It's their culture.

What I see is news footage of convoys of civilian cars all waving the Russian flag like football supporters do here. I think it is a social bond that many feel strongly.

As one Orange voter put it to me the other day, in WW2 they sided with the Hitler because that's how much they want to be free of Russia. Thats how unhappy they felt about Russian rule.

(Killing all those Jews and Russians by the million was a reasonable price to pay in his estimation it seems).

This of course precisely the reason I never wish to see them free from Russia's hegemony and most certainly have no intrest in any military alliance with them.

Neither do they have any economic intrests with me. Nothing to trade that I want. No visible way to pay back any money I might lend.

All they have is a pipeline they didn't build that ships gas they don't produce to countries that can pay more for it than they can.

And they've made such a pig's ear of managing it that an alterative route is under construction cutting thm right out of the deal.

The only other noteworthy industry they have going for them is the arms industry.

They sell weapons to our rivals. Something that any further integration with us would see stopped.

So that's it really, it's suck up to Russia or go bankrupt.

You say for the average Ukrainian it's all about the economy. And to a very large extent, you are exactly right.

There have been some cold cold winters in the Ukraine since the Orange movement took over.

On a side note to whoever posted that the CIA weren't able to stir things up in Iron Curtain countries, the post war history of Ukraine might teach you otherwise.

Edited February 14, 2010 by Baff1

[vilas 473]

haven't you mixed Timoshenko with Yanukovich ?

[Baff1 0]

Well spotted!!

I'll edit that with your permission.

[maturin 12]

On a side note to whoever posted that the CIA weren't able to stir things up in Iron Curtain countries, the post war history of Ukraine might teach you otherwise.

Post WWII? I don't know about Ukraine specifically, but I recall a lot of rather pathetic terrorism.

And I really think Ukraine was written off for the EU even before the election. It's just on another continent.

[vilas 473]

And I really think Ukraine was written off for the EU even before the election

written off ? too much difficult English words for non-native, but if you meant "Ukr not allowed to join EU" , the election has nothing to this

Ukr has very very poor economical status, also probably big crime and corruption problems, letting Ukr join EU would cause that many people here (in PL) or in west would lost jobs, cause our greedy employers would like to change workers for 800 EU to workers for 400 EU and build another palace

in Poland we are really low paid and our "business" still tries to lobby on government to let Ukrainians (much more poor comparing to developing Russia) to work here

people in my country sometimes not take jobs at "cheaters" (we call such work companies that not pay insurance, slow down payment, which boss is rich but he made his money on cheating people, not on good products) and they would love to replace proud Poles by Ukrainians

ask Spainish or people from Italian cities what they think about letting Romania to EU, ask what they think about pickpocketers (gypsys) on their streets

when you would let Ukraina to EU, many of us would lost job and you will have more criminal problems

but don't connect "terrorism" with Ukraine, they are not muslims

It's just on another continent.

they are very very divided, like in Russia, cause one region is modern and developed and other region is like from 1930 or 1950

specific of our ex-east block countries is big divide in development of regions

cause our village was very traditional (it of course means "healthy natural food") but also it means lack of canalization, water infrastructure , road infrastructure and such like causing lack of job and people roaming from one point of field to another, cause they have nothing more to do than walking around without sense

for Poland joining EU stoped risk of very angry society acts (there was over 20% unemployment , in young people group (after university) there was 45% unemployment cause "you have no experience" ) or people with MSC worked at McDonalnd or cleaning and also 50+ years old people without jobs etc.

but letting Ukraine join EU would again cause unemployment

our business leaders have one common philosophy "you have to steal first milion", "when you don't have to, don't pay" "avoid paying and you will have bigger house" and etc.

and for sure they would replace "someone for 800 to someone for 400 EU"

Ukraina always wanted to be separated from Russia , they have very strong national feeling, so economic reasons to be closer with Russia is for many of them not important

also many of them may hate USSR for "great hunger" when many millions died because of Stalin politics

but last election proven that economical problems became most important and they chosen other life

cause living past will stop you to progress in future (living Stalin(which was Georgian in fact, not Russian) crimes , living WW2 German Nazi crimes) only stops us from cooperation with new generations, which are not guilty for their grandgrandparents deeds

if Ukraine built their independence remembering 1930 Stalin deeds, than now they chosen to move forward in cooperation, than to stay in nationalist way (nationalism is nothing positive, it gives only problems)

from my point of view they chosen:

- what they judged as best for them , cause they chosen more social-care politician and less-nationalistic

- they chosen better for us, Poles, as neighbor, if i will loose job, at least Pole can find job in shop for 1600, but if Ukrainian join EU, usual Pole would have problem to find any job for money that allows him to eat

[Baff1 0]

And I really think Ukraine was written off for the EU even before the election. It's just on another continent.

Not sure what you mean by "on another continent".

I put it to you that the intransience in Ukraines accessesion to the EU was not from the Ukraines side.

That the Ukraine had the political and domestic will to join, but the EU, despite making encouraging noises, has never come up with the offer.

@Vilas, it's funny that you mention how we shouldn't be living in the past and blame eachother for the actions of our fathers.

While on the one hand I agree. I most certainly feel no ill will to the individuals of the nations involved, not even those parents and grandparents who were directly and personally responsable. It's just far too far away from the real daily concerns in my life.

Nothing more than entertainment on history channel and video games for me.

On the otherhand, the things that have happened before will happen again. Peoples facing the same circumstances will make the same decisions.

And the relationship between your country and mine is my example of this.

You discuss above your attitude towards the Ukraine joining the EU and the affect that would have on your own country, Poland.

This is identical to the affect that Polands joining the EU has had on my own, Great Britain.

And yet given all the trouble this has caused us, we still voted for your entry, we are still closely politically allied with you within the EU.

Why? Because some things don't change. You are our ally against Germany. ("Against" is perhaps too strong a word).

Despite that neither you nor I fought in WW1 and 2, here we both are in a national diplomatic alliance to prevent their domination of Europe again.

"Nothing changes", (as a tour guide in Pompei once said to me). "It's all been done before".

It is not blame for the actions of peoples forefathers that we seek to attribute. Not revenge that we seek. It's just the same old rivalries provided to us by our geographies.

That which has happened before has every possibility of happening again. Those same core motivations that affected people 10, 20, 50 and 100 years ago are still present today. The potential is there and we all dance the same dances to the same tunes we ever did.

You can reset history. Wipe the slate clean and start the book again, but you can't reset human nature.

Edited February 15, 2010 by Baff1

[vilas 473]

Poland join to EU stoped us from maybe bloodshed acts here (that could happen if we would be still gaining in unemployment) cause greed owners work this way:

- you work 10 hours for 300 ? 5 people around you have no job ? than work 11 hours for 250 and i will take extra profits to buy myself another car

it was causing people anger, i don't know how things would turn if we not get opened borders and milion escaped to steal (sorry) your work

cause every "cheaper" worker means problem for you, cause you cannot demand as much as you could demand without goddamn uninvited competition

- Germany ? well, if this Erica Steinbach will shout, it will only cause anger in Poland

we almost forget about WW2 and now some German politicians remind it to us, also some lawyers that want back houses on ex-German territory (borders moved by Stalin)

if not Erica Steinbach, if not those lawyers - we would almost forget

Jorg Heider died in accident, if i would see mutilated corpse of Steinbach i would be happy too

German domination in EU ? i always had stereotype that Germans are hard working, strict and accurate in engineering, in products , so i would not afraid of "German domination in EU" as long as Steinbach do not want to clean Hitler's shit , cause for me stereotype is "German ? it must be made good, quality and effective work" (oposite to "if it is made by Italians, it look fashionably designed but it will break" - some engineering experience in work and once i bought Rossigniol winter goretex jacket, it was worse jacket i ever had, but most fashionable while people wear Bundeswehr clothes 10 years without problems i had after 1 year or Fiat breaking parts while old Mercedes W124 can drive 15-20 years and i know 2 people driving W124 and very very satisfied, ARDO washing machine vs. BOSH or AEG )

about UK i have almost no stereotypes except "5 o clock tea, queen diplomacy, raining, specific humor", i don't know how "Brits work" , i only know stereotypes "if it is made by Germans it should be good"

but of course other Poles may think other way, cause i almost have no nationalism in me , moreover i see how many good things are in other European countries and sometimes feel shame for being born here (all those catholic sex attitude, ultra catholics 10% of society making 90% rest bad opinion in world, tolerating cheating and breaking rules)

so for me it is not matter if UK, Germany, France will be leading EU, as long as i will have my own profits, would not have to work too hard, as long as nobody come to my home to change me etc.

honestly - i never understand this "domination" issue, i cannot count it on my life, what does it change if UK, France, Germany or Denmark will lead EU for me ?

do i get more salary or less ? will it make sentences harder or not ? can i buy food i love (noone will forbid our Polish cucumber , noone will forbid our cheese, noone will forbid our whatever)

i know that politics is touching us in everything we do, eat, use, buy, want or can't get

but tell me , what will it change if UK or Germany lead EU ?

will i get flat ? will i get work for at least 1000 Euro this year ? will i have new record from Metallica , Blind Guardian if UK or Ger will lead ?

most important, how will we save our jobs, will bank owners frauds not make us get in another troubles, will someone stop China products, will we raise our own plants again to have job doing those goddamn shirts and screwdrivers ?

how does it influence my life ?

Edited February 16, 2010 by vilas

[Takko 10]

Vilas, as Poland wanted to the EU, none of the other

members wanted you for the reasons, you are bringing

up for Unkraine now.

[[GLT] Legislator 59]

lol Vilas, it's always interesting reading your postings :) Don't count it as negative critics. You're thinking about some issues and that's very good.

Let me tell you my point of view of germany. It's a dying country. And to be honest ... some parts deserve to die, especially the parts that destroy our democracy very slowly. This land is in the toilet. However the broken parts are covered by any positive meanings. Around 90 % of the money belongs to ca. 10 % of the people and it's getting worse and worse.

Our politicians are corrupt .... saying A, doing B, lying and blaming the people ... I'm as far to say that they don't representive the people anymore. They're doing their own thing.

Taking this into account it would be a very big mistake if germany takes a leading role in EU politics. They didn't manage to fix the country. Now they're screwing around in other countries.

The day will come again where we'll have to create a new republic from scratch on.

Now that's just my opinion based on my (bad) experiences. Anyone else is free to disagree with me :)

[vilas 473]

Vilas, as Poland wanted to the EU, none of the other

members wanted you for the reasons, you are bringing

up for Unkraine now.

of course, it is natural, and Romania for gypsy thieves making problems in Spain, Italy and maybe more, and other countries in which people earn LESS than in Poland, i understand it and i would agree if i was on other side

it is quite understandable and nothing to be surprised

Around 90 % of the money belongs to ca. 10 % of the people and it's getting worse and worse.

Our politicians are corrupt .... saying A, doing B, lying and blaming the people ... I'm as far to say that they don't representive the people anymore. They're doing their own thing.

the same is in Poland, the same, guy who came as "socialist" before election ("SLD"), becomes "liberal, pro-owner" day after, guy who promised "better law for workers" later make regulation "that allow owner to easy change number hours of working men without paying them money if he finds it neccesary"

guys who promised to do "clean country of corruption" in late 90s made law that makes fight harder, replace word "court MUST check if ..." by words "court MAY check if..."'

guys who promised (PO) to erase "immunity of judges, lawyers, members of parliament" now stand strong for this "immunity" regulation that NOT alows you to arrest football hooligan who has "legitimation and works as judge" nevermind he was throwing stones after football match or driven 200km/h killed someone , you cannot touch him

those who (before elections) were saying about "support to families" now support "to raise payment for apartment if necessary for block of flats owner company"

thats why over 50% of Poles not vote, there is no honest politician that can do, TV owned by lobby of some parties only show some guys and noone new

you can choose between A, B and C, but not D, E

most of politicians do exactly opposite things , that those promised BEFORE election

only few "extremists" always stay the same

but it is pathetic when every "social words" politic shows his "liberal" face after election

it is weird when we "vote for left wing and choose liberal wing"

and most weird is that ONLY left wing (economy) party in Poland is party (PiS) which... very strongly criticizes socialism before 1989 and is made of ex-opositionists

party that has "left" ("SLD") in name is ... liberal , pro owners etc. in their deeds

it look cyco, cause really when you vote , later all is upside down, like in dream of Salvador Dali

maybe politicians think "nevermind what you do, just use proper name to get votes" ?

maybe people are so stupid that they "vote for name" not for "effects" ???

i can record with my friend death metal record and call it "Disco night dances" and ???

goshhhh

Edited February 16, 2010 by vilas

[[GLT] Legislator 59]

Ah such things never gonna change anyway. It happened in the ancient rome .. it happened in the old european monarchies ... and it's happening in the current democracies.

Well ... all I can say is ... I'm sorry ... for example: *big sorry to switzerland* because our leaders are buying stolen goods ...

[raedor 8]

Ah such things never gonna change anyway. It happened in the ancient rome .. it happened in the old european monarchies ... and it's happening in the current democracies.

So you'd say all things were bad in the past, are bad now and will be bad (or even worse!) in future? Maybe just see it from a different POV. Sure, not everything is fine here and yes, I'd not believe in our politicians. But, if you're living in Germany and even if you're not one of the "10% of people owning 90% of the money in Germany": You're still one of the 5% of the world population owning 99% of the world. No reason to moan about the current situation -- at least not about the missing fairness: It's getting worse and worse for the rest of the world's population day-by-day and I doubt you're actively doing something against it. So I'd not blame our richest 10% here of doing nothing against the fact that they're getting richer.

And beside that: I'd doubt that everything has been bad in the past and that everything is bad right now, but that's a different story.