International Politics Thread

[chris330 0]

I'm living well and there has been no world wars in my life time.

No one bombs my cities.

Millions of my people aren't dying.

No starvation. No rationing. No draft.

I can make money on foriegn markets and through tourism.

I drive a big car, live in a big house. Go anywhere I like on holiday, and eat ice cream anytime I want.

I regularly buy imported goods.

My friends in foreign places aren't people I'm wishing to kill.

My wide arsed chair is very comfortable.

Oh, and I don't have the plague and my body hasn't been turned to ash.

The best post I've ever read. I'm going to save it and keep it as my motto and defining objectives in life. Sums up my feelings perfectly and sounds like the way every creature should be able to live

[Mr_Tea 0]

As far as I understud it, Georgia and South Ossetia were in peace-talks before this conflict. However, due to escalating violence (on a local level) these talks failed. Seems to me that Georgia had enough of this and started planning an attack. Of course this doesn't get any better with the PM of Georgia promissing to retake lost Georgian territorium before he got elected.

On the other hand you have Russia giving most of the people in S. Ossetia russian passports. Meaning in their eyes that Georgia is attacking russian citizens.

It's very blured what actually happend and IS happening. It's too early to say because it's so recent, and that you got sources here and there telling 20 different stories on how it happend (and what is happening).

I don't see the reason to carry this pointless argument, west vs. east, until we know more.

I´d say to Russia:

You want to have all that people you gave Russian Passports too?

Well, that`s no problem at all, they are free to go at any time.

That all this happens that day the Olympic Games start is no coincidence.

Whatever Russia calls their "Federation", nothing has really changed after the iron curtain went down.

Imagine another country would act like that, and give Passports to people in an foreign land. That is the same as moving the borders of an country. At least when Russia does it, as we now see what follows after that.

The Georgian Troops are few in number compared to that what Russia can send in that War, and when i hear Medwedev say that the ones that are responsible to the death of "their People" will pay for it, i wonder where all that will lead too.

More than 1000 People have already lost their lives in this War, many will follow.

[USSRsniper 0]

As far as I understud it, Georgia and South Ossetia were in peace-talks before this conflict. However, due to escalating violence (on a local level) these talks failed. Seems to me that Georgia had enough of this and started planning an attack. Of course this doesn't get any better with the PM of Georgia promissing to retake lost Georgian territorium before he got elected.

On the other hand you have Russia giving most of the people in S. Ossetia russian passports. Meaning in their eyes that Georgia is attacking russian citizens.

It's very blured what actually happend and IS happening. It's too early to say because it's so recent, and that you got sources here and there telling 20 different stories on how it happend (and what is happening).

I don't see the reason to carry this pointless argument, west vs. east, until we know more.

What do you expect? everyday people will never know the truth. Information war is going on, US trying to show russia in bad light. While they never mention about Georgians attacking civilians in South Osetia.... Gergia and South Osetia always hated each other, its like Yugoslavia, where hate against each other is there for long time, that they even forgot the true reason why they hate each other in first place.. South Osetia wants to be part of Russia hoping that Gergians will stop killing them, and georgia can't let that region go. Russia is not moving borders, people of South Osetia want to be part of Russia, if majority wants to be part of russia let them do it, this is what democracy is. US can protect "freedom" in iraq, then why Russia can't do the same?   And what gergians did so far, using artyllery agains't civilians is genocide pretty much... So far this is clearly West vs. East conflict, so far west showing russians as invadors, and people in the west accept it, soon US might start sending weapons to georgia... Looks liek ym theory is true, that Cold War never ended, it just moved to the next level...

[Baff1 0]

Quote[/b] ]If that's what you believe.

I personally believe it started much like WW2.

A chain reaction of alliances that propelled one nation after another to declare war after events conspired to provoke one nation to attack another.

Here's a little diagram I just found.

http://www.historyonthenet.com/WW1/causes.htm

And this is the lesson learnt.

Don't get into too many alliances.

Hence why the U.K. must withdraw from NATO rather then enter into alliances with Georgia or the Ukraine.

Yes I do believe that. After all the author is a Military Historian who taught at RMA Sandhurst and now works freelance with some universities as well as the Norwegian Air force Academy at Trondheim.

Of course why listen to a man who studies these things for a living? Might as well believe what you want when you have not even looked that in depth into the subject. Easier to do that than admit to being wrong.

Quote[/b] ]A chain reaction of alliances that propelled one nation after another to declare war.

Those alliances were made to create that balance of power and in the words of Edmund Blackadder, "It was ballocks."

@ scubaman3D

It's about the notion that Baff1 holds about a balance of power leading to peace. I am simply pointing that this is not always the case.

Attempting to create a balance of power and actually achieving a balance of power are not to be confused.

There are many many historians out there. They be no means all agree.

[Baff1 0]

I´d say to Russia:

You want to have all that people you gave Russian Passports too?

Well, that`s no problem at all, they are free to go at any time.

30,000 of them already have.

The children went first.

I think it's not the freedom to leave they wanted so much as the freedom to stay.

But now they don't have any homes.

[-Snafu- 78]

Quote[/b] ]If that's what you believe.

I personally believe it started much like WW2.

A chain reaction of alliances that propelled one nation after another to declare war after events conspired to provoke one nation to attack another.

Here's a little diagram I just found.

http://www.historyonthenet.com/WW1/causes.htm

And this is the lesson learnt.

Don't get into too many alliances.

Hence why the U.K. must withdraw from NATO rather then enter into alliances with Georgia or the Ukraine.

Yes I do believe that. After all the author is a Military Historian who taught at RMA Sandhurst and now works freelance with some universities as well as the Norwegian Air force Academy at Trondheim.

Of course why listen to a man who studies these things for a living? Might as well believe what you want when you have not even looked that in depth into the subject. Easier to do that than admit to being wrong.

Quote[/b] ]A chain reaction of alliances that propelled one nation after another to declare war.

Those alliances were made to create that balance of power and in the words of Edmund Blackadder, "It was ballocks."

@ scubaman3D

It's about the notion that Baff1 holds about a balance of power leading to peace. I am simply pointing that this is not always the case.

Attempting to create a balance of power and actually achieving a balance of power are not to be confused.

There are many many historians out there. They be no means all agree.

Yes there are many historians out there. But can you find one who disagrees? What evidence have you got that you can say "this was not the way it happened"?

The alliances were made to create a balance of power. That is fact. Germany's rising power led to France creating a treaty with Russia in order to balance the power. A-H created a treaty with Germany to create a balance between it and Russia and so on and so forth. In WW1 they believed that peace would be kept by a BALANCE OF POWER between the two alliance blocks.

Clearly a balance of power may not equal peace. It's too simplistic. A balance of power can cause tension which can lead to war. In other cases it can create peace. It all depends on the prevailing circumstances of the situation.

[MehMan 0]

Blackadder made a nice speech regarding this. Let me see if I can find it.

EDIT:

Blackadder - How did the war start ?

[Baff1 0]

Quote[/b] ]If that's what you believe.

I personally believe it started much like WW2.

A chain reaction of alliances that propelled one nation after another to declare war after events conspired to provoke one nation to attack another.

Here's a little diagram I just found.

http://www.historyonthenet.com/WW1/causes.htm

And this is the lesson learnt.

Don't get into too many alliances.

Hence why the U.K. must withdraw from NATO rather then enter into alliances with Georgia or the Ukraine.

Yes I do believe that. After all the author is a Military Historian who taught at RMA Sandhurst and now works freelance with some universities as well as the Norwegian Air force Academy at Trondheim.

Of course why listen to a man who studies these things for a living? Might as well believe what you want when you have not even looked that in depth into the subject. Easier to do that than admit to being wrong.

Quote[/b] ]A chain reaction of alliances that propelled one nation after another to declare war.

Those alliances were made to create that balance of power and in the words of Edmund Blackadder, "It was ballocks."

@ scubaman3D

It's about the notion that Baff1 holds about a balance of power leading to peace. I am simply pointing that this is not always the case.

Attempting to create a balance of power and actually achieving a balance of power are not to be confused.

There are many many historians out there. They be no means all agree.

Yes there are many historians out there. But can you find one who disagrees? What evidence have you got that you can say "this was not the way it happened"?

The alliances were made to create a balance of power. That is fact. Germany's rising power led to France creating a treaty with Russia in order to balance the power. A-H created a treaty with Germany to create a balance between it and Russia and so on and so forth. In WW1 they believed that peace would be kept by a BALANCE OF POWER between the two alliance blocks.

Clearly a balance of power may not equal peace. It's too simplistic. A balance of power can cause tension which can lead to war. In other cases it can create peace. It all depends on the prevailing circumstances of the situation.

I can find hundreds who disagree.

So can you.

It is perhaps harder to find two that agree than two that disagree.

Neither am I intrested in providing you evidence of how World War One started. Since you have clearly already read one historians opinions on why, if you wish to learn more, read anothers.

With respect, if you think there is only one opinon, let alone one correct opinion; I won't be able to persuade you otherwise and have no intention of trying.

As a fellow student of history, are you familiar with the term "buffer zone"?

It is important for rival dominions to have buffer zones.

It would be madness for NATO to extend it's borders right up to Russia.

As we have seen countless times, in areas of friction small events start wars. The kidnap of an Isreali soldier....The terrorist bombing of a Georgian peacekeeper.

Never make alliances in these regions. They are constantly at war.

[NoRailgunner 0]

Its bad to see that this long conflict is ending up into such an escalation. Too much national pride and prejudice isnt a good medicine. Would take generations until dumb hate on all sides is gone.

[sdoc 0]

doesn't seem weird to any of you that so many things sound the same as ten years ago, just with reveresed roles?

At that time Serbia was trying to reestablish controll, by force, in a seperatist region. With nato stopping them, and russia complaining. Now we have georgia trying it, with russia helping out and some western media complaining.

Just imagine what happened if US or NATO peace keeping forces would have been directly attacked, and several killed? How would a US reaction look like? The peacekeeping force, was legitimate by the way, result of a ceasfire agreement in the 90s.

Oh, i have no doubt that russia has it's very own agenda. That it tries to be hegemonial in the region, and that they helped to keep the conflict alive during the last years. But puting all the blame on them this time, and whitewashing the georgian gouvernment would be just blind.

The only one who actually deserves some solidarity are the people of Ossetia, regardless what passport they have. We are generaly in favour of most seperatist movements, from irland to tibet or most recent kosovo - fairness requires us to treat ossetians equally.

[USSRsniper 0]

I´d say to Russia:

You want to have all that people you gave Russian Passports too?

Well, that`s no problem at all, they are free to go at any time.

30,000 of them already have.

The children went first.

I think it's not the freedom to leave they wanted so much as the freedom to stay.

But now they don't have any homes.

And they got no home because georgians destroyed them...

[Mr_Tea 0]

Now Georgians get told by Russia to stay off there own turf.

How nice is that?

Putin the old spy is also on the scene, arrived in South Osetia today by plane. They see that region already as their`s, they want to have influence over Georgia, and Russia don`t want Georgia becomes a member of NATO.

[USSRsniper 0]

Now Georgians get told by Russia to stay off there own turf.

How nice is that?

Putin the old spy is also on the scene, arrived in South Osetia today by plane. They see that region already as their`s, they want to have influence over Georgia, and Russia don`t want Georgia becomes a member of NATO.

Georgia could easily become NATO, bu to Gergian president wants war, first attacking villages were "separatists" live. Knowing that russia already hates them for wating to enter NATO. The problem is, Georgia wants South Osetia in one piece, but people there don't want too, thats hy they have separatists group, they are freedoom fighters. Russia could easily deal with georgia going to nato, cut off gas supply, electricity supply. But georgia want to be NATO and still have russian ags supplied to them...   Osetins and Gergians were always in conflict, it didn't jsut start on few weeks ago or in 90's, it was there for long time. And US wants that region, where its constantly at war, thats why Gergia wants separatists killed, since they will not become member of NATO, because their country is unstable.

[Mr_Tea 0]

Georgian Peacekeepers get shot and some killed in South Osetia days ago.

This all was planned some time ago, not by Geargia, but by Russia.

Escalating an situation until an war starts is no magic, something like that happened here.

[akm74 1]

Quote[/b] ]Now Georgians get told by Russia to stay off there own turf.

How nice is that?

Now Serbia get told by US to stay off there own turf.

How nice is that?

[USSRsniper 0]

Georgian Peacekeepers get shot and some killed in South Osetia days ago.

This all was planned some time ago, not by Geargia, but by Russia.

Escalating an situation until an war starts is no magic, something like that happened here.

Planned by russians? Osetins hate gergians, ofcourse georgian troops will get shot. South Osetia and georgia are in violent conflict since 1990's. South osetia has every right to decide their future for themselves, but no georgia peace keepers are there to prevent it... Since 1991 south soetia wants to separate, why US didn't protect their democracy? Why osetins are always told by georgians what to do? people in South osetia are happy that russia is doing something..  and CNN and other news are lying, South Osetia is not georgia, go and ask anyone who is osetin, he will tell you that they are not part of georgia.

[Dwarden 1125]

During soviet times there was nothing to shift focus from. In a planned economy there are no conjuncture cycles.

Georgia was liberated by the red army in 1921.

Interventions in Cz or Hungary were not wars. The eastern-european countries rushed in to aid and put things to order, and stopped reactionary forces in society.

And you forget that Georgia is the aggressor here. Russian troop presence guaranteed peace and life. Now with new reinforcements to the peace-keepers I guess Georgia has to sign a truce.

The SOers voted positive on independence. Georgia doesn't respect that vote. Earlier this year they closed and censored tv-channels in combination with the elections.

i'm from Czech(oslovakia) ...

so i suggest You don't try to teach me about that invasion ...

also speaking of SO and Abchazia ...

separatists there triggered and 'won' civil war ...

ofc they won as they got full Russia backing then and now ...

since the first civil wars there was 'standstill' cease fire and relative status quo but Georgia still consider them 'theirs' territory ...

i fully understood that let say 75% of South Ossetia is pro Russian and always was (because Ossetia was cut into two)

blame Stalin for that ...

if Russia REALLY don't want war it was quite easy to tell Georgia

"We =  Russia want the 'South Ossetia' " and we offering Georgia some black oil, natural gas or something ...

IF there is will for PEACE it could be done ...

problem is both sides don't want to ...

i agree the escalation is mainly Georgia fault but the 'never' ending problem is Russia fault which roots way back to early Soviet Union times ...

and ask native citizen of Georgia or other 'ex' Soviet Union what they think about so called 'liberation' and victory of 'communism' forces ...

pretty sure the answer will be something in style 'we got RPGs and AKs prepared in that case'

btw. about the WW2 and Czechoslovakia and nazis / german w/e comments

Czechoslovakia is ONE of the WINNING allied nations so please educate self before even trying to expand that subject ...

any claims that Czechoslovakia invaded the USSR extremely outrage me as my family lost members in anti German resistance and some were executedin prisons

(most after atentate on Reinhard Heydrich in 1942 which was killed by Czechoslovakia para forces, btw. show me any other nation fullfilling sucessfull attack on high ranked German prior 44)

our troops fought hard on all fronts and helped lot in UK to win BoB just to receive another betray from both Soviets and USA/UK like before WW2 ...

so in my eyes nor Russia nor USA nor UK nor France nor Germans can be trusted and that's main reason i want out army to be able to deliver such damage to attacker to deter them try

this mean if needed i would support our contry to obtain/build nuclear or similar WMD especially if there is threat from east

[USSRsniper 0]

During soviet times there was nothing to shift focus from. In a planned economy there are no conjuncture cycles.

Georgia was liberated by the red army in 1921.

Interventions in Cz or Hungary were not wars. The eastern-european countries rushed in to aid and put things to order, and stopped reactionary forces in society.

And you forget that Georgia is the aggressor here. Russian troop presence guaranteed peace and life. Now with new reinforcements to the peace-keepers I guess Georgia has to sign a truce.

The SOers voted positive on independence. Georgia doesn't respect that vote. Earlier this year they closed and censored tv-channels in combination with the elections.

i'm from Czech(oslovakia) ...

so i suggest You don't try to teach me about that invasion ...

also speaking of SO and Abchazia ...

separatists there triggered and 'won' civil war ...

ofc they won as they got full Russia backing then and now ...

since the first civil wars there was 'standstill' cease fire and relative status quo but Georgia still consider them 'theirs' territory ...

i fully understood that let say 75% of South Ossetia is pro Russian and always was (because Ossetia was cut into two)

blame Stalin for that ...

if Russia REALLY don't want war it was quite easy to tell Georgia

"We =  Russia want the 'South Ossetia' " and we offering Georgia some black oil, natural gas or something ...

IF there is will for PEACE it could be done ...

problem is both sides don't want to ...

i agree the escalation is mainly Georgia fault but the 'never' ending problem is Russia fault which roots way back to early Soviet Union times ...

and ask native citizen of Georgia or other 'ex' Soviet Union what they think about so called 'liberation' and victory of 'communism' forces ...

pretty sure the answer will be something in style 'we got RPGs and AKs prepared in that case'

Russia giving oil to georgia? This would never happen, oil is important supply, russia can make moeny on oil, instead of giving it to some crazy georgian president who lost his mind.

[Dwarden 1125]

not giving , regular trade to buy territory instead of shady proxy civil wars and 'peace' liberation etc ...

but that mean the 'will' to preserve the peace which none of sides got ....

anyway i updated my previous post because some of the posters here really outraged me with comments about Czechoslovakia ...

[USSRsniper 0]

not giving , regular trade to buy territory instead of shady proxy civil wars and 'peace' liberation etc ...

but that mean the 'will' to preserve the peace which none of sides got ....

anyway i updated my previous post because some of the posters here really outraged me with comments about Czechoslovakia ...

In georgia, they started firing at civilians and russian peace keepers in south osetia. Don't you find it weird that it  all started on olympic games start? It looks like georgian president wanted russians to attack, especially on the day of olympics. And don't take comments by Spokesperson serious, he is expert on Soviet Union and Czehoslovakia, and talks about it like he lived in both countries...

[Dwarden 1125]

sniper these comments about WW2/Czechoslovakia and that we deserved the 1968 invasion because of that etc...

such uneducated comments makes me wonder ...

but anyway answer at least to SP

RalphWiggum is a known talker. When he has no facts or knowledge about something he just keeps on talking rubbish.

Afghanistan, when things were pretty ok, was socialist. Women went to school, were doctors and pilots. Talibans didn't like this and started a civil war. Then USSR went there to help, and CIA started to train bin Ladin & Co. After 10 years, the USSR retreated. Today in Afghanistan US plays around there, the difference is that there are a lot fewer troops there. But the violence is escalating. It hasn't been this bad since the invasion 2001.

Hundreds of thousands of Hungarians (100k), Romanians (400k), Czechs (30k) died while fighting for nazism in the USSR. Hungary and Romania were never invaded by any nazi forces, they joined the axis voluntarily. Even today there are many nazis in Hungary for instance. Many riots in recent years. This kind of people went from street to street and shot suspected socialists during the revolt.

Chechnya never wanted to be a separate republic. Some religious extemists wanted this. In SO. 80% of the population are Russian Citizens. They had a vote where a majority supported independence.

claiming that 30k Czechoslovakia 'volunteer' means we invaded USSR ...

let me put it this way lot of Czechoslovakia Germans weren't happy by German overtake, many lost theirs property or were aware of the consequences leading to war

(which You show too you blame the complet for actions of individuals) ...

many Czechoslovakia Germans risked and lost theirs lives while helping our anti German goverment in UK especially in first 3 years of occupation ...

also You seems to completely ignore that pro-nazi Slovakia which was formed after occupation and declared indendence was source of most 'such' volunteers for east front ...

only small of Czechoslovakia citizen volunteered into Wermacht and SS ... sure there were some but that happened in EVERY nation occupied by WW2 Germay ...

your 30k which died in 'german' service feels like bad joke compared to number of Czechoslovakia civilans Germans executed for 'resistance' or as 'warning'

feels like outrage compared to number of Czechoslovakia citizens and soldiers who died fighting against Germany actively

and smells like trolling compared to Czechoslovakia citiens who fled into Soviet Union from Germany and died in GULAGs because Stalin considered as 'not trustable' element

so before You ever try to write about these things think twice a You outrage all these who died fighting for our future ...

claims like we deserved 1968 because we disliken to be 'slaves' of USSR just because theirs tanks rolled over as Stalin signed 'deal' with West super powers that feels extremely outraging ...

[echo1 0]

Excuse my ignorance on this issue, but out of curiosity, how do the Northern Ossetians feel about being a part of Russia? Do they want to break away too, or are they happy with their situation?

Quote[/b] ]RalphWiggum is a known talker. When he has no facts or knowledge about something he just keeps on talking rubbish.

Pot, meet the kettle

[sdoc 0]

Geting south Ossetia as their own territory seems to me like the worst case for russia. Probably it would not take long until the Ossetians would like to join north and south ossetia, and probably after a while the united ossetia would get an desire for freedom.

While they are a part of georgia however, they keep the country occupied with internal buisness. Preventing georgia of becoming a regional power and very effectively prevents geogia from joining NATO.

In a comment a Deutsche Welle correspondent considered the desire of Georgians gouvernment to join NATO a main reason for the conflict to intensify since the last election. In order to join NATO countries must have all problems regarding seperatist movements resolved. The end of Georger W. Bush's presidency was a long known date, and it is very unlikely that the next US president would enforce Georigia joining NATO. Something most european NATO members oppose. When Saakashvili was runing for reelection whe knew that he has a time window of less than a year.

The most reasonable thing would have been if there was a UN peace keeping force. Allowing things to calm down enough for

But this wasn't in the interest of anyone involved. Not for Georgia, who wants a clean house, to get into NATO. Not russia wich probably doesn't want more foreign troops in the area, and seeks hegemony in the kavkas region. Not for the US who want to have an outpost in this central region. Not for the europeans who didn't care in the first place, and would have to find excuses for not sending peacekeepers. Tough luck for the civilians in Ossetia, and Georgia who have to suffer now.

oh, btw, i have a request: if someone feels emotional about this, or even patriotic: please refrain from posting until you cooled down. particulary if your country is directly involved in a war is the moment where you have to swallow your pride, get rid of the stupid patriotism and try to get a neutral point of view.

(It's also a good point to get outside and start a demonstration to get a new gouvernment, the old one has shown their complete and utter incompetence by leting things get that far.)

[USSRsniper 0]

sniper these comments about WW2/Czechoslovakia and that we deserved the 1968 invasion because of that etc...

such uneducated comments makes me wonder ...

but anyway answer at least to SP

RalphWiggum is a known talker. When he has no facts or knowledge about something he just keeps on talking rubbish.

Afghanistan, when things were pretty ok, was socialist. Women went to school, were doctors and pilots. Talibans didn't like this and started a civil war. Then USSR went there to help, and CIA started to train bin Ladin & Co. After 10 years, the USSR retreated. Today in Afghanistan US plays around there, the difference is that there are a lot fewer troops there. But the violence is escalating. It hasn't been this bad since the invasion 2001.

Hundreds of thousands of Hungarians (100k), Romanians (400k), Czechs (30k) died while fighting for nazism in the USSR. Hungary and Romania were never invaded by any nazi forces, they joined the axis voluntarily. Even today there are many nazis in Hungary for instance. Many riots in recent years. This kind of people went from street to street and shot suspected socialists during the revolt.

Chechnya never wanted to be a separate republic. Some religious extemists wanted this. In SO. 80% of the population are Russian Citizens. They had a vote where a majority supported independence.

claiming that 30k Czechoslovakia 'volunteer' means we invaded USSR ...

let me put it this way lot of Czechoslovakia Germans weren't happy by German overtake, many lost theirs property or were aware of the consequences leading to war

(which You show too you blame the complet for actions of individuals) ...

many Czechoslovakia Germans risked and lost theirs lives while helping our anti German goverment in UK especially in first 3 years of occupation ...

also You seems to completely ignore that pro-nazi Slovakia which was formed after occupation and declared indendence was source of most 'such' volunteers for east front ...

only small of Czechoslovakia citizen volunteered into Wermacht and SS ... sure there were some but that happened in EVERY nation occupied by WW2 Germay ...

your 30k which died in 'german' service feels like bad joke compared to number of Czechoslovakia civilans Germans executed for 'resistance' or as 'warning'

feels like outrage compared to number of Czechoslovakia citizens and soldiers who died fighting against Germany actively

and smells like trolling compared to Czechoslovakia citiens who fled into Soviet Union from Germany and died in GULAGs because Stalin considered as 'not trustable' element

so before You ever try to write about these things think twice a You outrage all these who died fighting for our future ...

claims like we deserved 1968 because we disliken to be 'slaves' of USSR just because theirs tanks rolled over as Stalin signed 'deal' with West super powers that feels extremely outraging ...

Its ironic how spokeperson talks about chechoslovakia, we don't even know where he is from. But i never even had thoughs about that czechoslovakia deserved invasion, eventhough i'm russian...    How come czech deserver invasion? They were occupied by germans, then soviet union, hell even pilots who flew for RAF were jailed....

People in Czechoslovakia didn't know what freedoom is after germans invaded them.  Ofcourse people got feed up, germans occupied and then soviet union...After WW2 peopel wanted to live in peacefull country which is independent from other staes...

And if you think that i'm patriotic, go to hell, i'm not even from Russia, but i live near russia in a state that wants to be NATO too, and i'm not happy about it... Ukraine... And what the georgian president did is completely wrong, he attacked south osetia to force russia into the conflict on olympic games. Where world can get easily outraged.. And the UN peackeeepers, who eneds them? UN never solved aything, did UN solve problems in yugoslavia no? UN wasn't even interesting in solving conflict that georgia started, but when russia gets invlolved suddenly everyone starts talking about it, where were you before? when russia wasn't there and georgians started destroying villages in south osetia...

Joining NATO is like becomign slave of US, where you have to fight in conflicts that US will start....

[Barely-injured 0]

hey if you guys are willing to take a break from the political discussion for a while, could someone post links for local news agencies (Russian, Georgian, others) that have information on the developing military situation, i.e. who is where? doing what?, even if they seem biased or contradict each other.

I am tired of listening to the vague info from CNN and the likes.